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View Full Version : Did I hear this right about Chapman's contract?



Redsnake
03-09-2010, 09:18 AM
Some time back I think I read a post or article on Chapman's contract. Before I didn't pay much attention too it because, I felt there was no way he would or the Reds would put him in the rotation right out of spring training.

The facts: 6 years $30+ million, Right.

What I think I read. 3 years $30+ million if Chapman breaks camp or is in the rotation before May ???something.

Can anyone clear this up or tell me that whatever I read was incorrect.

RiverRat13
03-09-2010, 09:30 AM
I was about to ask the same question. Hopefully someone can clear this up.

GIDP
03-09-2010, 09:36 AM
Basically if he pitches like a cy young winner he makes more money.

Either way we own him just like any other minor league player. 3 option years, 6 years of service time. Same as any other player.

Mr.MojoRisin
03-09-2010, 09:58 AM
As much as I hate to say it though, if the current Reds follow their pattern, he'll play like a superstar for a few seasons and than be traded for about 3 rookies. I hope not, but....

Griffey012
03-09-2010, 12:40 PM
As much as I hate to say it though, if the current Reds follow their pattern, he'll play like a superstar for a few seasons and than be traded for about 3 rookies. I hope not, but....

Outside of Dunn the reds haven't had any superstars that they have traded in the last 10 years, because the only 3 superstars they had were Larkin, Dunn, and Griffey. And trading Griffey when they did was way past his prime of any usefulness.

Redsnake
03-09-2010, 01:55 PM
Basically if he pitches like a cy young winner he makes more money.

Either way we own him just like any other minor league player. 3 option years, 6 years of service time. Same as any other player.


Okay. So no matter what the Reds can keep him up to 6 years? I was under the impression that if he pitched in the big leagues before mid May his contract shorten to 3 years making him a free agent after that.

5ToolPlaya
03-09-2010, 02:43 PM
Then I guess Chapman will be in AAA until the end of May.

RedLegsToday
03-09-2010, 02:55 PM
This is Chapman's contract, according to Cot's Baseball Contracts website:

6 years/$30.25M (2010-15)

signed by Cincinnati as an amateur free agent 1/11/10

$16.25M signing bonus ($1.5M at signing; $1.5M each Nov. 1, 2010-13; $1.25M each Nov. 1, 2014-20)

10:$1M, 11:$1M, 12:$2M, 13:$2M, 14:$3M, 15:$5M player option
Chapman must decide whether to accept or decline 2015 player option within 5 days after end of 2014 World Series

if Chapman qualifies for arbitration after 2012, $5M is converted to a bonus and he becomes arbitration-eligible
if Chapman qualifies for arbitration after 2013, $3M is converted to a bonus and he becomes arbitration-eligible

So, he may be on a 6 year deal, but, $16+ million of it is being paid out over 11 years. It looks like if he qualifies for arb after 2012, he gets the $5 million total from 2013 and 2014 and the 2015 player option goes away.

BLEEDS
03-09-2010, 04:01 PM
Some have stated that IF he hits the big club prior to May 15th, he will likely hit Arbitration early, which will then cost us more in the long-run - basically getting to FA earlier and getting more money earlier.

I also read that some said we'd STILL have him through 2016 - still be in arbitration.

Either way, if he's pitching great - say Tim Lincecum great - I expect we would offer him a new longer-term contract and avoid the whole mess of arbitration years.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

redsfanmia
03-09-2010, 04:03 PM
Outside of Dunn the reds haven't had any superstars that they have traded in the last 10 years, because the only 3 superstars they had were Larkin, Dunn, and Griffey. And trading Griffey when they did was way past his prime of any usefulness.

Dunn was never a "superstar".

big boy
03-09-2010, 08:47 PM
Outside of Dunn the reds haven't had any superstars that they have traded in the last 10 years, because the only 3 superstars they had were Larkin, Dunn, and Griffey. And trading Griffey when they did was way past his prime of any usefulness.

I work with a guy who says that a lot. When I ask what "superstars" he is talking about, he shuts up.

gilpdawg
03-10-2010, 06:16 AM
I work with a guy who says that a lot. When I ask what "superstars" he is talking about, he shuts up.
That's the plea of the misinformed. You hear this a lot. "Everytime they get somebody good they just trade him away." It's just not true.

BLEEDS
03-12-2010, 11:43 AM
I'm just wondering what they'll do with the ~$22M that could potentially come off the books next year.

IFF Chapman and Leake are ready to step in and give 200+ innings in 2011, your rotation looks like:

Bailey
Cueto
Volquez
Chapman
Leake

Wood/Maloney knocking on the door/ready for spot duty.

Votto, Cueto, Owings, Bray and Burton are arbitration-eligible, but that's about it, with only Votto and Cueto due for any serious $$ (2-4M).

If you project only rookie salaries to the rest of the roster, it projects to under $48M - and that's WITH Cordero (12) and BP (11) salaries included!
That is some SERIOUS payflex. Where do we spend it?!?!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Jefferson24
03-12-2010, 12:41 PM
I'm just wondering what they'll do with the ~$22M that could potentially come off the books next year.

If you project only rookie salaries to the rest of the roster, it projects to under $48M - and that's WITH Cordero (12) and BP (11) salaries included!
That is some SERIOUS payflex. Where do we spend it?!?!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

An All Star caliber shortstop and a big bat for Left field, that's were I start.

You could also use some of it for a new manager!

GIDP
03-12-2010, 01:48 PM
I'm just wondering what they'll do with the ~$22M that could potentially come off the books next year.

IFF Chapman and Leake are ready to step in and give 200+ innings in 2011, your rotation looks like:

Bailey
Cueto
Volquez
Chapman
Leake

Wood/Maloney knocking on the door/ready for spot duty.

Votto, Cueto, Owings, Bray and Burton are arbitration-eligible, but that's about it, with only Votto and Cueto due for any serious $$ (2-4M).

If you project only rookie salaries to the rest of the roster, it projects to under $48M - and that's WITH Cordero (12) and BP (11) salaries included!
That is some SERIOUS payflex. Where do we spend it?!?!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Im sure a lot of if will be decided with how Brandon Webb responds this year. Basing this off Webbs comments on how he would like to pitch close to his home town and how basically Cincy is the only place with in driving distance from that home.

BLEEDS
03-12-2010, 02:38 PM
Im sure a lot of if will be decided with how Brandon Webb responds this year. Basing this off Webbs comments on how he would like to pitch close to his home town and how basically Cincy is the only place with in driving distance from that home.

Not sure we're going swimming in that pool. Why go for old expensive pitching when you can go with young cheap pitching.

I think offense is where we should focus.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Kingspoint
03-12-2010, 07:25 PM
I'm just wondering what they'll do with the ~$22M that could potentially come off the books next year.

IFF Chapman and Leake are ready to step in and give 200+ innings in 2011, your rotation looks like:

Bailey
Cueto
Volquez
Chapman
Leake

Wood/Maloney knocking on the door/ready for spot duty.

Votto, Cueto, Owings, Bray and Burton are arbitration-eligible, but that's about it, with only Votto and Cueto due for any serious $$ (2-4M).

If you project only rookie salaries to the rest of the roster, it projects to under $48M - and that's WITH Cordero (12) and BP (11) salaries included!
That is some SERIOUS payflex. Where do we spend it?!?!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Lower Ticket Prices.

Give all Season Ticket holders an all-expense paid trip to the Bahamas in the Winter.

jredmo2
03-18-2010, 01:42 AM
It's sounding more and more like Chapman is the 5th starter. And while I am swept up by Chapmania as anyone, I can't help but think this could be a colossal mistake. He's gonna sell a lot of tickets this spring if he starts with the team, but not as much as we would over the long haul. If you take the emotion out of it, it's simple: the revenue brought in from Chapman coming in two and a half months earlier is nowhere close to what we'll pay in arbitration -- or rather the non-arbitration time the Reds would lose. This is one situation where I feel Jocketty, as a GM, needs to make a very unpopular decision. This is one where years down the line, when the honeymoon period is over, we may kicking ourselves for wasting the amount of time we had him so cheap.

Granted if he performs like that, we'll likely be looking to extend/renegotiate with him well before any of that happens. but plenty of players wait out their contracts for Yankees/Red Sox money. It happens all the time.

Kingspoint
03-18-2010, 03:42 AM
It's sounding more and more like Chapman is the 5th starter.

Not a chance.

1. The REDS know very little about him. Baker said today after seeing him throw a 2-seamer, "We didn't even know he had a 2-seamer." The REDS will spend April and May monitoring him under controlled conditions in the minors limiting his innings. They're doing it already.

2. He only pitched 114 innings in Cuba last year, supposedly, according to the REDS and the Enquirer. That limits him to only 144 innings or so this season. That makes it impossible for him to be a starter in April and May. He'll have to wait until June, or else they'll have to shut him down in early August. If he's kept in the Minor Leagues in April and May, then they can reduce his April/May workload by 20 innings, as they can pitch him every 6th start in the minors and limit him to 90 pitches. If he was in the Majors he'd be throwing every 5th start, be too inconsistent (5 days off one week, 9 days off another week, 7 days off another week). They also can control which pitches he throws in the minors so there's less stress on his arm.

3. It's more important than anything that they prepare him for a 200-inning season in 2011. Getting him anywhere near 180 innings in 2010 greatly increases the chances of him ruining his arm. Then what do they have? An expensive player on the Disabled List. They can "stretch him out" somewhere between 150-155 innings this season, and then they can "stretch him out" against to 195-200 innings the next season. If they start him in the minors in April and May and then bring him up as the 5th starter the rest of the season, he can be kept to 150-155 innings, and they'll have to make sure they shut him down when he gets to that point (and no 120-pitch games by Baker!!!!!!!!!!.....Baker's not to be trusted with this guy.)

REMEMBER: The effect of overusing a pitcher's arm doesn't show itself until 2 years after or more. It usually doesn't reveal the damaging effects until then. It's not necessarily "damaging", either. The player is just never that same dominating player they were that rookie season. They turn into an average pitcher (maybe above average) or worse, where they could have been great.

Griffey012
03-18-2010, 04:16 AM
REMEMBER: The effect of overusing a pitcher's arm doesn't show itself until 2 years after or more. It usually doesn't reveal the damaging effects until then. It's not necessarily "damaging", either. The player is just never that same dominating player they were that rookie season. They turn into an average pitcher (maybe above average) or worse, where they could have been great.

As far as the overuse comment, that sounds more like some pitchers just aren't as good as they were when they came up. To me it seems most pitchers who feel the effects of overuse, feel it right away (as in the next season). I haven't done any research on it, but I feel like there are a lot of guys like Hamels who get overworked and don't comeback the same the next season, and there are also plenty of guys like Dontrelle who just aren't as good as when they first came up.

I definitely agree with you about #2 and the innings pitched part. He has been out of baseball for a while and one of the worst things we could do is put him in a 200+ scenario, however he will be a starter in the minors, majors, or wherever he starts out, which really won't be able to hold him below 160 IP. As far was which pitches he throws, from what I have seen they all look pretty fluid and effortless, the worst on his arm has to be the slider, but that is his "go to" pitch.

All in all, I hope they let the guy throw the way he is throwing, keep him on a monitored schedule as far as innings, until June, bring him up and let him help us to the playoffs. Stretching him out to 150-155 then to 195-200 violates the Verducci law, which it seems like you are referring to somewhat. They won't be able to hold him to 140 innings, but I do hope they get him out of games ASAP when he starts to struggle, especially when he is over the 140IP threshold. However if it is the towards the end of the season, I am going to find it really, really tough to watch if Baker pulls him in a game he is dominating if it is a big part of our playoff picture. I am so hungry for October.