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Spring~Fields
03-12-2010, 10:42 AM
During the off season a lot of various players were mentioned by many of us along with their positive performance attributes.

Now that spring training is underway and moving forward do you see or feel that any of the minor league players that any of us mentioned will be actually making the Reds team out of spring training?

It doesn’t appear that there would be sufficient playing time for them and thus it will be assumed that they and the Reds will be better off with them getting playing time in the minors. Whether that is a positive or not I have no idea, my question is about our discussions and if any of those players discussed will even make the team after all that was said and done.

Examples of players that were talked of. Frazier, Heisey, Maloney, Francisco, I am sure that there were others that some will be aware of, that escape my recall at this moment.

Are their any of the minor league players discussed at length that will make the team?

LawFive
03-12-2010, 10:53 AM
I predict Maloney will make the team as the #5 SP. He will make the first 6-7 starts in that spot until Chapman is recalled after May 15. This also allows Owings to be the long man/PH.

I don't see any of the position player prospects making the team intially; we all know Dusty will campaign for vets in the bench spots.

lollipopcurve
03-12-2010, 10:56 AM
I get the feeling Frazier is making the most headway on the position side, but I don't think we'll see any of those guys break with the big club.

EDR in a similar spot on the pitching side.

Agree that no rookies will "go north."

membengal
03-12-2010, 10:57 AM
I'm still holding out hope for Frazier to stick as the super-utility IF and back-up in LF.

RedsManRick
03-12-2010, 11:07 AM
I think Maloney will win the #5 job and agree that Frazier is in the running with Miles and Sutton for the utility role.

ochre
03-12-2010, 11:34 AM
this is a trick question; if they make the team, they won't be minor league players... :)

membengal
03-12-2010, 11:44 AM
Frazier starting at 1b today, with Votto DH'ing, so, yeah, I still think Frazier has a chance to stick as a super-sub. Back-up at every IF position and in LF? And Frazier can hit? I am really pulling for him.

lollipopcurve
03-12-2010, 11:49 AM
Frazier starting at 1b today, with Votto DH'ing, so, yeah, I still think Frazier has a chance to stick as a super-sub. Back-up at every IF position and in LF? And Frazier can hit? I am really pulling for him.

Me too. What I'm thinking is that it makes sense for the team, in a way, to get a rookie onto the club this year so that they don't have a massive influx next year. For $$$ purposes, you kind of want to avoid a bubble whereby a bunch of players hit arbitration at the same time. It could be that 2011 is shaping up as a logical time to graduate several players, including Frazier, Leake, Wood, Cozart, EDR, Ondrusek and Heisey. Getting one of those out ahead of the tidal wave could be wise.

CesarGeronimo
03-12-2010, 11:52 AM
I don't think Jocketty brought Aaron Miles to Cincy to cut him. I think he plans on having him on the roster, so I don't think any of the younger guys are going to stick as a utility infielder. Here are a couple of Jocketty's quotes about Miles.

"(Miles) is another one of these guys that's a winner," said Jocketty, who acquired Miles from the Rockies before 2006, when the Cardinals won the World Series. "I think it's important to bring in guys, I heard more and more from our young players that the influence that Rolen had on them, the way he played the game and the attitude he takes. Orlando's that way and Aaron's that way. It helps to bring in these guys to help with these young players."

AND

Jocketty came from St. Louis, where Miles was part of the Cardinals' 2006 World Series champions. He batted .318 for St. Louis in 2008, and is pegged as a backup infielder in Cincinnati.

"He played an important role in that club in 2006 when (David) Eckstein got hurt late in season and we were without a shortstop," Jocketty said. "He played flawlessly at short. He's played all the positions except catcher and first base."

membengal
03-12-2010, 11:53 AM
I get that, but I am sure as heck not rooting for it. This team is better with Todd Frazier on it than Aaron Miles.

Always Red
03-12-2010, 12:54 PM
I think it will be the same as it ever was- all borderline guys with options go back down, and vets make the opening day roster. After the vets show a certain amount of ineptitude, they are released (or accept assignment to Louisville) and then the young guys some up, usually around the first of June.

I hope that I am pleasantly surprised, and that Frazier makes the team over Miles.

bucksfan2
03-12-2010, 01:10 PM
I don't see Frazier making the team unless he is playing every day. I think he is one of the top 25 players in the system, but think playing every day trumps him spending time on the major league pine.

membengal
03-12-2010, 01:15 PM
I don't see Frazier making the team unless he is playing every day. I think he is one of the top 25 players in the system, but think playing every day trumps him spending time on the major league pine.

And I would do it different. I think he's ready for the bigs, and the team benefits from his availability up north. I don't know that he gets much out of another AAA tour. There comes a point where prospects have to make the club. Plenty of prospects used to come north as back-ups before working into regular gigs. No reason that Frazier cannot do that as well.

Scrap Irony
03-12-2010, 05:40 PM
Me too. What I'm thinking is that it makes sense for the team, in a way, to get a rookie onto the club this year so that they don't have a massive influx next year. For $$$ purposes, you kind of want to avoid a bubble whereby a bunch of players hit arbitration at the same time. It could be that 2011 is shaping up as a logical time to graduate several players, including Frazier, Leake, Wood, Cozart, EDR, Ondrusek and Heisey. Getting one of those out ahead of the tidal wave could be wise.

Great point, lollipop, and one I hadn't considered. I'd love to see Frazier make them take him north. (And I think Jocketty and company will, if he continues to hit the ball like he has.)

But, IMO, it'll take a pretty remakable spring by Frazier to do it. Jocketty's plan, IMO, is to take Miles and Janish north. And you can see why, too. Janish has the glove-- Miles has... veteran-ness (and a track record of being both a good teammate and a player Jocketty likes).

CesarGeronimo
03-12-2010, 06:46 PM
I get that, but I am sure as heck not rooting for it. This team is better with Todd Frazier on it than Aaron Miles.

I agree with you.

IslandRed
03-12-2010, 06:54 PM
Me too. What I'm thinking is that it makes sense for the team, in a way, to get a rookie onto the club this year so that they don't have a massive influx next year. For $$$ purposes, you kind of want to avoid a bubble whereby a bunch of players hit arbitration at the same time. It could be that 2011 is shaping up as a logical time to graduate several players, including Frazier, Leake, Wood, Cozart, EDR, Ondrusek and Heisey. Getting one of those out ahead of the tidal wave could be wise.

I'm not sure how that figures... Frazier being advanced a year in arbitration makes that group of players cost more, not less.


And I would do it different. I think he's ready for the bigs, and the team benefits from his availability up north. I don't know that he gets much out of another AAA tour. There comes a point where prospects have to make the club. Plenty of prospects used to come north as back-ups before working into regular gigs. No reason that Frazier cannot do that as well.

He might be ready and I'll be happy if he makes the team, but he's only had 63 at-bats in Triple-A, I don't think some more time in Louisville is going to hurt.

Spring~Fields
03-12-2010, 10:07 PM
After watching some video on Frazier today at first base, where he seemed to make some nice plays, I think that many of you are right about him.

traderumor
03-13-2010, 11:16 AM
After watching some video on Frazier today at first base, where he seemed to make some nice plays, I think that many of you are right about him.

And we certainly need a backup 1bman, while we continue to decide what to do with Alonso, when your best other option is Ramon Hernandez.

chicoruiz
03-13-2010, 02:59 PM
Have absolutely nothing concrete to base this on, but I just have the feeling that one of the rookie relievers- either Ondrusek or Del Rosario- will come north with the club.

Kc61
03-13-2010, 03:18 PM
Have absolutely nothing concrete to base this on, but I just have the feeling that one of the rookie relievers- either Ondrusek or Del Rosario- will come north with the club.

I think the two relievers have the best shot. Frazier, Francisco, Alonso will be in the minors absent some injury. Heisey will very likely be at AAA.

But there is one spot open in the pen, assuming Owings takes the long relief spot. This is Fisher's spot from late last year. Fisher needs to nail it down. If there is doubt about him, I can easily see one of the two rookies getting the spot.

The advantage Fisher has, in addition to his experience last year, is that he can pitch multiple innings. Ondrusek is a former starter, he probably can too.

Lincoln also might compete for that spot if he fails to make the starting rotation.

So i see either Fisher, Del Rosario, Ondrusek or Lincoln in that last relief role - along with Cordero, Massett, Herrera, Burton, Rhodes and Owings.

Spring~Fields
03-13-2010, 05:25 PM
And we certainly need a backup 1bman, while we continue to decide what to do with Alonso, when your best other option is Ramon Hernandez.

You think that is all that Frazier can do? Otherwise, I don't think your comment makes any sense. Save your energy for something that matters, that might help you. I don't think "we" are making any decisions about Frazier or Alonso.

traderumor
03-13-2010, 05:48 PM
You think that is all that Frazier can do? Otherwise, I don't think your comment makes any sense. Save your energy for something that matters, that might help you. I don't think "we" are making any decisions about Frazier or Alonso.What in the world are you talking about? I was agreeing with you, at least I thought I was. And the Reds do need a backup 1bman as the roster currently stands. :confused:

Spring~Fields
03-13-2010, 05:56 PM
What in the world are you talking about? I was agreeing with you, at least I thought I was. And the Reds do need a backup 1bman as the roster currently stands. :confused:

Must have been conditioned, conditioned response, stimulus, stimulus response. I guess sometimes we read so much of a given type of communications on the board directed toward various ones, that we or I can become like Pavlov's dog.

traderumor
03-13-2010, 06:04 PM
Must have been conditioned, conditioned response, stimulus, stimulus response. I guess sometimes we read so much of a given type of communications on the board directed toward various ones, that we or I can become like Pavlov's dog.No problem. :)

corkedbat
03-13-2010, 11:07 PM
I believe Francisco, Frazier and Heisey all start the year in AAA, but get their shots this year.

I think Frazier has a chance to be a prime pinch hitter and fill in at several positions. If Gomes struggles vs. rightes I think and Francisco starts out hot, Juan may be his platoon partner in LF sooner than later. If Gomes is injured just struggles, Frazier or Heisey may be the RH side of the platoon.

If Stubbs were to struggle at the plate, I could see he and Heisey swapping spots in Cincy and L'Ville too. Frazier is my first choice too if Votto or Rolen go down for any length of time. Valaika could get a call if he hits and Phillips were to be out.

If I'm the Reds, I put Franciso in LF full time in L'Ville and put Frazier at 3B to get ready to sub for Rolen. Even if the Reds are maintaining the fantasy that JF will someday play 3B in the majors, it won't be this year. Unless Alonso is having a MONSTER year, he would spend the full season at L'Ville if it were up to me.

mth123
03-14-2010, 03:09 AM
Not that it will happen, but I'd like to see Francisco in LF and Frazier at 3B every day - in AAA. Lets see if these guys can find a position before putting them in the big leagues. Heisey is probably the CF in AAA, but if Stubbs continues to struggle, I wonder if the Reds start out with a Dickerson/Heisey platoon in CF until Stubbs gets hot at AAA.

Maloney probably is the 5th starter. I like Fisher in the pen and am pretty high on Del Rosario as of now. I'd like to see them both force the issue and see if the Reds would be willing to deal Burton for help on the position side.

Guacarock
03-14-2010, 04:57 AM
Just got back from Goodyear, where I had an opportunity to see a lot of our prospects in action. My assessment: Anywhere from 3 to 5 of them will force their way onto the team before 2010 runs its course. A lot of these kids are good, and some are potentially great.

My cursory take on the prime players to watch:

Starting pitchers Chapman, Leake and Wood
Relievers Del Rosario and Ondrusek
Position players Francisco and Heisey
Super-subs Frazier and Sutton

Didn't see enough of Alonso, Cozart, Valaika and the rest to form an opinion, other than: No one struck me as being a slouch or overrated. We'll be awash in talent at Louisville. Should translate into a championship run for the Bats in 2010, and better times ahead for the Reds.

TRF
03-14-2010, 04:39 PM
If Louisville's rotation is Chapman, Wood, Leake, Lehr and LeCure, (I know i am forgetting someone...) and the offense in no particular order is Cozar, Valaika, Frazier, Alonso, Francisco, Dorn, Heisey with Castillo and Miller behind the plate, they should secede from the International League and demand to be placed in the AL Central.

Spring~Fields
03-14-2010, 05:26 PM
Just got back from Goodyear, where I had an opportunity to see a lot of our prospects in action. My assessment: Anywhere from 3 to 5 of them will force their way onto the team before 2010 runs its course. A lot of these kids are good, and some are potentially great.

My cursory take on the prime players to watch:

Starting pitchers Chapman, Leake and Wood
Relievers Del Rosario and Ondrusek
Position players Francisco and Heisey
Super-subs Frazier and Sutton

Didn't see enough of Alonso, Cozart, Valaika and the rest to form an opinion, other than: No one struck me as being a slouch or overrated. We'll be awash in talent at Louisville. Should translate into a championship run for the Bats in 2010, and better times ahead for the Reds.

Thanks for the update. I am so jealous and envious, wish I could be there too. :)

Will M
03-14-2010, 06:42 PM
Francisco hit another HR today. Personally I feel that a platoon of Dickerson/Stubbs in CF & Francisco/Gomes in LF would be the best in house option we have in 2010. Is Francisco playing an LF in spring training or is he just playing 3B?

Guacarock
03-14-2010, 08:03 PM
Francisco hit another HR today. Personally I feel that a platoon of Dickerson/Stubbs in CF & Francisco/Gomes in LF would be the best in house option we have in 2010. Is Francisco playing an LF in spring training or is he just playing 3B?

They've been moving Frazier and Sutton all over the diamond, but playing Francisco at 3B so far this spring.

membengal
03-15-2010, 09:37 AM
I also agree with others that Fisher's spot from last year is a bit tenuous, and someone like Del Rosario could jump into it.

Spring~Fields
03-15-2010, 01:43 PM
Questions:

If these three or four, Chapman, Leake, Wood and Maloney, continued to pitch as well as has been reported in articles, would they be better options than Owings, Lehr, Lincoln or Kip Wells ?

Or is it best to let Chapman, Leake and Wood pitch while getting additional experience in the minors and just go with the other older pitchers regardless at this time? I am guessing additional experience in the minors even if they were better pitchers, which seems somewhat odd to me. I am asking because I don't know. What do you think?

I have to feel that it is a good thing to have too much good pitching available.