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savafan
03-12-2010, 01:21 PM
I hope we can keep this out of the religion and politics discussion.

I'm not naive enough to believe that there aren't players in the league right now who are privately gay, or perhaps even open about it with their teammates but not to the public. What do you think the general public's view would be if and when an active major league baseball player does come out of the closet? How would their treatment compare to that received by Jackie Robinson as the first African-American major league baseball player, or would it?

westofyou
03-12-2010, 01:26 PM
What do you think the general public's view would be if and when an active major league baseball player does come out of the closet?

Pitchforks and Torches.

pedro
03-12-2010, 01:26 PM
It's a non issue as far as I'm concerned although I'm certain it wouldn't be treated as such. Personally I'm not terribly interested in the sexual preferences of celebrities and professional athletes, whatever they may be. That goes for stories about their heterosexual "conquests" as well.

Bumstead
03-12-2010, 01:28 PM
What does this have to do with baseball?

savafan
03-12-2010, 01:33 PM
What does this have to do with baseball?

Some would say it's a "civil rights" issue related to the game, sports and society in general. I'm not sure where I lean on that topic, but I'm curious what the perception of fans would be when the day comes.

bucksfan2
03-12-2010, 01:42 PM
It will be interesting too see if and when that does happen. I agree with the point that there are gay MLB players.

I don't think an openly gay major leaguer will be as ground breaking nor as have as difficult of a time as the first blacks in baseball did. I think in today's society, especially amongst younger people, homosexuality isn't that big of a deal. While comments may be made and some may scoff at the idea of being gay, once you get to know the person homosexuality really isn't much of an issue.

I do think that some teammates may be uncomfortable with having a gay teammate, especially in the locker room and shower. But then again once you get used to it I don't think it will be an issue.

TheNext44
03-12-2010, 01:43 PM
I really don't think it would change the public's perception and opinion of A-Rod and Jeter that much. :cool:

savafan
03-12-2010, 01:56 PM
Would the impact be different were it to be a superstar as opposed to a fringe major leaguer?

nate
03-12-2010, 02:03 PM
Personally I'm not terribly interested in the sexual preferences of celebrities and professional athletes, whatever they may be. That goes for stories about their heterosexual "conquests" as well.

Word.

kpresidente
03-12-2010, 02:03 PM
I hope we can keep this out of the religion and politics discussion.

What else could it possibly be about?

savafan
03-12-2010, 02:04 PM
What else could it possibly be about?

Baseball and the American landscape. I don't see how the 2 above topics have anything to do with it at all really.

kpresidente
03-12-2010, 02:08 PM
Baseball and the American landscape. I don't see how the 2 above topics have anything to do with it at all really.

How is "the American landscape" not political?

savafan
03-12-2010, 02:13 PM
How is "the American landscape" not political?

I don't want to argue down a road that will lead the thread to be locked, but I think "politics" should be something relating specifically to government, and social issues to be an entirely different topic altogether.

Hoosier Red
03-12-2010, 02:15 PM
I think it will be uncomfortable for all involved. Not because people find an issue but rather because being the first is almost always uncomfortable.

There would be a lot of media attention, every visiting city's press would interview him.

But after the first year it wouldn't be a big deal and it would be like Bannister breaking the 4 minute mile as a lot of people would come out after the first one.

medford
03-12-2010, 02:15 PM
I think it would be blown out of proportion by the media at first, I think it would generate protest/rallies by fringe factions on both sides of the issue, and I think in the end, the average, everyday baseball fan would take note and not really care much one way or another. Other than the initial interest, similar to so many steriod abusers made public (or even drunk driving offenders), the average fan will continue to cheer the team they love, and boo the oppossing competition.

PuffyPig
03-12-2010, 02:45 PM
Glen Burke (76-79) was gay and came out during his professional major league career to his team mates and owners.

savafan
03-12-2010, 02:47 PM
Glen Burke (76-79) was gay and came out during his professional major league career to his team mates and owners.

True, and there may be players today who have been open with their teammates and owners as well, but not to the public.

westofyou
03-12-2010, 02:49 PM
Glen Burke (76-79) was gay and came out during his professional major league career to his team mates and owners.

Then to the public in 1982 (Inside Sports... remember that magazine?)

Glen also brought the high five to baseball.... oh and who did he high five?

Dusty Baker.

westofyou
03-12-2010, 02:50 PM
Burke's association with the Dodgers was a difficult one. According to his autobiography Out at Home, Los Angeles Dodgers General Manager Al Campanis offered to pay for a lavish honeymoon if Burke agreed to get married.[2] Burke refused to participate in the sham. He also angered Dodger manager Tommy Lasorda by befriending the manager's estranged gay son, Tommy Lasorda, Jr.[2] The Dodgers eventually dealt Burke to the Oakland Athletics.

Faced with mounting personal difficulties and lackluster statistics, Burke eventually quit baseball. He stated in his autobiography that "prejudice just won out." He returned for spring training with Oakland in 1980. Billy Martin, the newly hired manager of the Athletics made public statements about not wanting a gay man in his clubhouse.[citation needed] When Burke injured his knee before the season began, the A's sent him to the minors in Utah. Burke then left professional sports for good at age 27.

In his 225 games in the majors, Burke batted .237 with two home runs, 38 RBI and 35 stolen bases.

"My mission as a gay ballplayer was to break a stereotype . . . I think it worked." Glenn Burke in People ~ November 1994

hebroncougar
03-12-2010, 03:43 PM
My attitude would be the same as to other homosexuals...........doesn't matter to me, I don't care one way or the other.

Blitz Dorsey
03-12-2010, 04:09 PM
Wait, I thought Piazza already took care of this.

He at least should have called a press conference to clear everything up. ;-)

redsfandan
03-12-2010, 04:15 PM
Would the impact be different were it to be a superstar as opposed to a fringe major leaguer?
Yes.

I hope we can keep this out of the religion and politics discussion.

What else could it possibly be about?

What does this have to do with baseball?Imo, this would be similar to Jackie Robinson breaking baseball's color barrier in the 40's. I don't think people would have a problem with a thread about Jackie Robinson. So why this?


Glen also brought the high five to baseball.... oh and who did he high five?

Dusty Baker.
So?

"My mission as a gay ballplayer was to break a stereotype . . . I think it worked." Glenn Burke in People ~ November 1994
Except the effect he had was kinda limited. Some of his teammates, some people in the Dodger organization, and some Dodger fans probably accepted it but, since there hasn't been another openly gay ballplayer in the 30 years since, ....

I think there's a better chance today that it wouldn't be held against a player to the extent that it was held against Burke. But there would be a backlash. The question would be to what extent. It would be hard for any player but probably moreso if the player isn't a starter and if his teams home city was "gay friendly" it would probably help too. A starter would feel the heat and could lose some money from endorsements. But if a backup screws up he might not have a chance to redeem himself right away. Throw in the fact that the backup is gay and the calls to the radio shows would be "interesting" to say the least. So, imo, a starter for a left coast team would have it a little easier than a backup/fringe player that plays in say Texas.

Personally, I could care less about what a player does on his own time as long as he doesn't break the law or hurt anyone. It doesn't matter what I think of his actions or how I may want to say "eww" ... if he can help the team win that's what should count.

RichRed
03-12-2010, 04:18 PM
Billy Bean (not Billy Beane - different guy) also came out publicly, but not until about 4 years after he left baseball.

westofyou
03-12-2010, 04:26 PM
Imo, this would be similar to Jackie Robinson breaking baseball's color barrier in the 40's. I don't think people would have a problem with a thread about Jackie Robinson. So why this?


Because I felt like it.

redsfandan
03-12-2010, 04:40 PM
westofyou, the part you actually quoted had nothing to do with you.

Tony Cloninger
03-12-2010, 09:49 PM
In football Dave Kopay wrote a book about it after he retired (But it was known among several that he was gay)
He even spoke about his relationship with an All-Pro player from Washington....but he never mentioned his name.
Then around 1986 when Jerry Smith passed away from AIDS..it became public knowledge as to who it was.

There have been more known gay players in football than baseball....but that sport would be harder to deal with due to it's overly macho nature to begin with.

Joseph
03-12-2010, 09:53 PM
Let's say a Red comes out and says he is gay. The extent of my interest would be, how'd he do in the game today? Really could not care less about what he does not wearing the uniform, its all about what he does in the uniform the I have interest in.

George Anderson
03-12-2010, 09:56 PM
It would create alot of problems in the locker room.

Players just need to play and keep whatever their sexual quirks are out of the locker room.

savafan
03-12-2010, 09:58 PM
I'm right there with you Joseph, but say you're a gay high school athlete who is struggling with keeping your orientation a secret, causing thoughts of depression, anxiety, possibly even suicide because you don't know how to deal with the stigma associated with the barrier between your sport and your lifestyle. Wouldn't you be more interested then? Wouldn't you look to that professional player who came out as a hero, and see how he dealt with the situation and have better feelings about it yourself?

Joseph
03-12-2010, 10:03 PM
I'm right there with you Joseph, but say you're a gay high school athlete who is struggling with keeping your orientation a secret, causing thoughts of depression, anxiety, possibly even suicide because you don't know how to deal with the stigma associated with the barrier between your sport and your lifestyle. Wouldn't you be more interested then? Wouldn't you look to that professional player who came out as a hero, and see how he dealt with the situation and have better feelings about it yourself?

Certainly I can see both positives from a player coming out as well as negatives. Considering though that I don't fit the profile, it doesn't have that kind of impact. As I said I don't care what they do, I'm certain there are hundreds of people who do though.

Spring~Fields
03-12-2010, 10:07 PM
It's a non issue as far as I'm concerned although I'm certain it wouldn't be treated as such. Personally I'm not terribly interested in the sexual preferences of celebrities and professional athletes, whatever they may be. That goes for stories about their heterosexual "conquests" as well.

I like your input. I think their sexual stats are a separate issue from their baseball stats, or depending on their career field, their career stats. Are we to somehow judge their performances in both areas and cheer them on?

Sea Ray
03-12-2010, 10:22 PM
Burke's association with the Dodgers was a difficult one. According to his autobiography Out at Home, Los Angeles Dodgers General Manager Al Campanis offered to pay for a lavish honeymoon if Burke agreed to get married.[2] Burke refused to participate in the sham. He also angered Dodger manager Tommy Lasorda by befriending the manager's estranged gay son, Tommy Lasorda, Jr.[2] The Dodgers eventually dealt Burke to the Oakland Athletics.





I knew Tommy LaSorda had a hard time with him because he was gay but I had no idea about his son. As usual you were very informative WOY. Thanks for the educational moment.

He's the only gay ballplayer I had ever heard of.

There was Dave Pallone an umpire that the Reds gave a hard time, especially Pete when he was manager and I have to believe that his "orientation" had something to do with that.

RedsManRick
03-12-2010, 10:29 PM
In terms of a guy coming out publicly, I think it only happens if it's a guy whose job is 100% safe and more likely at least an all-star. Even then, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. It's a very masculine culture, and whatever your personal views may be, it would make a lot of people uncomfortable and cause some unrest in the organization. For all we know, there are some gay players who are open among their teammates or a select few of them. But the attention brought by coming out publicly would be very difficult to handle.

Benihana
03-12-2010, 10:41 PM
There are/were rumors floating around that Pat Burrell and ex-Red Rob Bell are both gay.

A one-time prominent Reds minor leaguer was pretty sure about those two.

As for the actual truth, who knows?

Benihana
03-12-2010, 10:43 PM
I knew Tommy LaSorda had a hard time with him because he was gay but I had no idea about his son. As usual you were very informative WOY. Thanks for the educational moment.

He's the only gay ballplayer I had ever heard of.

There was Dave Pallone an umpire that the Reds gave a hard time, especially Pete when he was manager and I have to believe that his "orientation" had something to do with that.

Pallone wasn't out of the closet at that point.

jojo
03-13-2010, 03:55 AM
The first openly lesbian major league baseball player would be news.

Sea Ray
03-13-2010, 08:19 AM
Pallone wasn't out of the closet at that point.

You don't think the Reds knew? I bet they did

RBA
03-13-2010, 08:30 AM
I don't think it would be a big deal if a player came out today. As for "sexual quirks" in the locker room I think someone has an active imagination. Maybe some would be more conscience to wrap a towel around them more often, but I don't see any big changes in the locker room.

cincinnati chili
03-13-2010, 09:11 AM
I think it depends who comes out and when it happens. 10 years from now this may be much less of a big deal. 10 years ago it would have been a bigger deal. 40 years ago a huge deal.

I think the point that it depends if it's a superstar or not is a good point. A few years back, the Indians had a Japanese middle reliever (Tedano?) who had participated in a gay porno film in his younger days because he was purportedly desperate for money. The issue blew over, and the organization claims his teammates were universally behind him (no pun intended). If, however, he had become an all-star this might have followed him for some time.

Tony Cloninger
03-13-2010, 09:18 AM
Pallone said Dave Concepcion made some gay slur at him...prior to the Rose incident. Sounded like there was innuendo or rumors about it...and when Concepcion was arguing with him during a game (That Pallone claimed Davey also spit on him) he used that as a way to get at him.

Sorry i do not have the exact source for this....but it is something i do remember about the whole Pallone incident.

traderumor
03-13-2010, 10:12 AM
Eh.

Dom Heffner
03-13-2010, 10:19 AM
Wouldn't bother me, I could see some fans getting in a tizzy about it. The grumpy old man types....and those that think because they are against something, then everybody has to be that way.

I think things are changing, though, and people are pretty accepting and just want people to play ball and leave the personal stuff at home.

Sea Ray
03-13-2010, 11:22 AM
Pallone said Dave Concepcion made some gay slur at him...prior to the Rose incident. Sounded like there was innuendo or rumors about it...and when Concepcion was arguing with him during a game (That Pallone claimed Davey also spit on him) he used that as a way to get at him.

Sorry i do not have the exact source for this....but it is something i do remember about the whole Pallone incident.

The story I recall was Pallone claimed that Concepcion was in the dugout blowing kisses to him. Davey's version was that he was eating sunflower seeds and he was spitting out the shells...

Brutus
03-13-2010, 11:41 AM
The first openly lesbian major league baseball player would be news.

"A League of Their Own."

Heh.

Redsfaithful
03-13-2010, 11:45 AM
It's been surprising to me how much some fans actually care about steroids, and I imagine it would also surprise me how much some fans would care about something like this.

Personally I could care less, and would be irritated at what a huge story it would become. Not because it wouldn't deserve to be a story, but because it would be blown out of proportion tremendously, because that's how sports media does things.

dougdirt
03-13-2010, 01:33 PM
Japanese pitcher turned major leaguer Kaz Tadano has a past history with this. I don't want to get into details because of exactly how it all came about, but you can read about it by googling his name I am sure.

vaticanplum
03-13-2010, 05:24 PM
Anyone who thinks this would be about "sexual quirks" is missing the point. There is no way any professional athlete would come out in order to spill details about his personal life in that kind of manner. It's going to be difficult enough for him or her to do so without it being an issue of what goes on the bedroom.

Baseball PARADES personal lives of athletes as a selling point of the game. I'm not talking about drinking binges and sexual harassment tales and what have you. I'm talking about the concerted effort the sport makes to play up the good-guy players, which tend to be the ones who portray themselves as devoted family men. There is going to come a time, I certainly hope, when a successful baseball player happens to be gay and has a successful, fulfilling family life with a partner and children (if one doesn't exist already). And there will come a time when either that player is tired of hiding his family life or has it exposed involuntarily.

I appreciate the attitude of each-to-his-own in terms of personal life and there's a part of me that wishes that people in the public eye really had that option. But at least as things stand right now, that's not the way it is. Anyone who makes this purely about what happens behind closed doors is missing the point in my opinion. Being "openly gay" isn't about detailing the gender of whom you choose to date alone; it's about being able to speak frankly about the same very important parts and people in your life that others in, say, professional sports are not only permitted but encouraged to do. That is the issue at hand here. There is no doubt a handful of gifted young baseball players who happen to be gay and would love to strive for the same professional and personal fulfillment that many hard-working, talented MLB players have. And certainly many of them then look at the reality of the secret-keeping they feel they'd be forced to have, the discrimination they would face, the media circus and impact on their earning potential if not flat-out ability to play if they were openly gay...and we lose their talent because they decide it's just not worth it. It seems superfluous, on one hand, for someone to HAVE to go to the trouble to disclose that kind of detail about his personal life, and yet in a situation like this I don't know that there's any other way, if the path is going to be paved for those talented kids to go into the sport with the same clear head and heart that others are allowed.

jojo
03-13-2010, 05:40 PM
I don't care who Kaz Tadano dates any more than I care who Derek Jeter dates. In fact the less I know about their personal lives, the better.

George Anderson
03-13-2010, 05:57 PM
I don't care who Kaz Tadano dates any more than I care who Derek Jeter dates. In fact the less I know about their personal lives, the better.

Bingo

It will be beneficial to the team and ultimately a players career to keep controversial personal business including any sexual quirks they have out of the locker room and instead focus on doing their job.

SMcGavin
03-13-2010, 06:46 PM
Personally I couldn't care less. I think most ballplayers and fans wouldn't have a problem with it either. The player's teammates would make public statements about how they are behind him 100%. A few guys on his team would privately be uncomfortable about it, but not say anything publicly.

And every other player around the league would get asked about it by press, one or two of them would say something stupid, and those comments would be all over ESPN for weeks.

MartyFan
03-13-2010, 09:21 PM
I think it is DOES NOT MATTER...that said, I think it will be like when a player says "I'm a Christian" and that community makes them a poster child for that movement...depending on the person it could be incredibly annoying or a non-issue depending on how they choose to portray it to the world.

RedEye
03-13-2010, 11:01 PM
Bingo

It will be beneficial to the team and ultimately a players career to keep controversial personal business including any sexual quirks they have out of the locker room and instead focus on doing their job.

How is being gay a sexual "quirk"? I'm confused. If a ballplayer is straight, does talking about his wife/life partner to the media or displaying a picture of her in his locker constitute displaying his sexual "quirks"? Because I'm pretty sure that's all most gay ballplayers would be interested in doing on a daily basis as well. And right now, well, they just can't.

George Anderson
03-13-2010, 11:30 PM
How is being gay a sexual "quirk"? .

There are other words to describe what I feel about the gay lifestyle but I choose "quirk" to be nice.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_quirk_mean

GAC
03-14-2010, 06:00 AM
Could care less. What's his OB%?

BearcatShane
03-14-2010, 06:15 AM
I might take some heat for this, but I'd honestly have a hard time rooting for a gay player. If a player is gay, I'd prefer he just keep it to himself. I don't care what city your in, if said gay player struck out or messed up, you can bet the crowd would bombard him with gay insults. It would be uncomfortable to hear that. I don't have a problem with gay's at all, it's just something I wouldn't like someone on my favorite baseball team to be open about.

redsmetz
03-14-2010, 08:46 AM
I might take some heat for this, but I'd honestly have a hard time rooting for a gay player. If a player is gay, I'd prefer he just keep it to himself. I don't care what city your in, if said gay player struck out or messed up, you can bet the crowd would bombard him with gay insults. It would be uncomfortable to hear that. I don't have a problem with gay's at all, it's just something I wouldn't like someone on my favorite baseball team to be open about.

Rude and abusive fans will look for anything to hurl at opposing players (or even their own) and sexual orientation is just one more bit of fodder for people who are going to be rude anyway (particularly when they've imbibed more than they should have).

Unfortunately in our society, gay sexual orientation is viewed as aberrant or as put elsewhere as a "quirk." I'm in agreement with some others that it's a shame that few gay individuals are free to be open about their orientation because of such views. I was with my son when the campaign was on to overturn Cincinnati's anti-gay Charter amendment and a store owner (who lost my business in this moment) made a disparaging remark about gays. Those opposed to overturning the amendment referred to these as "special rights." I told my son until a gay couple can walk down the street holding hands or giving an innocent goodbye kiss the same way my wife and I can, then it won't be special rights. Ultimately, a gay person (ballplayers included) is looking for something that simple.

My wife and I are at the point when our kids and nieces and nephews are getting married. It saddens me that should my wife's nephew who is gay should find a partner to share his life with that he can never introduce that person to his grandparents. On the other hand, it really tickled me overhearing my dad asking my niece (who is also gay) how to refer to her girlfriend. He was really trying to know. [As an aside, I have to nieces who are gay, both their names start with the letter A. My younger daughter's name also starts with an A, she says in family circles, "I'm the straight A"].

It really comes down to a simple things, mentioned by others and me here. But ultimately, as someone noted in this thread, if a ballplayer's gay, all I want to know is how well can he hit and help score some runs. Just like every other ballplayer.

jojo
03-14-2010, 08:53 AM
Here's the thing.... Heckling a noodle arm by yelling, "I've seen better arms on a snake!" works equally well regardless of whether that player is straight, gay, native american, african american, white, mexican, or Adam Dunn. Heckling with a reference to sexual orientation is boorish and is completely on the person yelling it...it's not appropriate and it broadcasts to the whole stadium that, "hey, I'm a bigot and a loser! You should be embarrassed that I wearing your team's jersey!".

Now I understand that having an openly gay player on a team might force families to have certain conversations with their kids earlier than they're comfortable having them. This kind of thing has been an issue at Safeco before given their "family friendly marketing". Also if your position is one that defines the lifestyle as completely immoral without an inch of room for compromise than it would be difficult to ever accept that player.

But all of that said, welcome to life. Unless you and your family never leave the house and don't own a tv, there is no way to control when these issues are forced upon you.

Finally, if it's an issue of morality, why the heck would a person take their family to a ballgame anyway... Seriously, they'd be sitting in a big bar watching a game defined by a rich history of cheating, lying, and "win at all costs".... Given that, the "gays" are the poison in the stew? Seriously?

smith288
03-14-2010, 09:14 AM
I care as much about a persons sexual orientation as I do about thei stock portfolio. I don't give a crap. It boring. Why people think I need to know which gender they prefer to have relations with is beyond me. Some may care, I don't.

I won't lie an say it wouldn't change my opinion of that person. Is that wrong? Depends on who you ask but it's a topic that really doesn't belong in the world of baseball.

Is there some insatiable need for me to tell the world my orientation? Not as a straight guy. I don't know what it is about being gay that makes one feel the need to hold a press conf and tell the world which team they play for. I'm sure there is something personally uplifting but prepare to have an altered public image afterwards.

ThatS my opinion. There are many like it but this one is mine.

jojo
03-14-2010, 09:29 AM
Is there some insatiable need for me to tell the world my orientation? Not as a straight guy.

You do it every time you go out in public with your wife and family.


I don't know what it is about being gay that makes one feel the need to hold a press conf and tell the world which team they play for. I'm sure there is something personally uplifting but prepare to have an altered public image afterwards.

It's called wanting to go out in public with your loved one and family. :cool:

blumj
03-14-2010, 09:38 AM
I care as much about a persons sexual orientation as I do about thei stock portfolio. I don't give a crap. It boring. Why people think I need to know which gender they prefer to have relations with is beyond me. Some may care, I don't.

I won't lie an say it wouldn't change my opinion of that person. Is that wrong? Depends on who you ask but it's a topic that really doesn't belong in the world of baseball.

Is there some insatiable need for me to tell the world my orientation? Not as a straight guy. I don't know what it is about being gay that makes one feel the need to hold a press conf and tell the world which team they play for. I'm sure there is something personally uplifting but prepare to have an altered public image afterwards.

ThatS my opinion. There are many like it but this one is mine.
It's not that complicated, being made to feel that they're supposed to hide it is what makes it so important to them to stop hiding it.

smith288
03-14-2010, 10:21 AM
You do it every time you go out in public with your wife and family.

It's called wanting to go out in public with your loved one and family. :cool:

Thats different. Not what I meant when I say "tell the world".

ellen degeneres is a prime example of an altered image after having some big ordeal made about orientation. Her career took a dump. Her comedy show got dropped and she had to severely tone it down. Not because she was gay. But because she made it the focus of her existence. She is a very funny woman whom I enjoy now because her whole identity isnt made around her sexual identity like it was 10-15 yrs ago. Now she's just funny.

If your whole identity is focused around your orientation, then it gets VERY annoying. Most people who I have discussed this topic with, including several gay folks, admit it's not so much the benig gay, but how you go about BEING gay.

If Piazza was seen holding hands with some dude in public during his playing career, I wouldnt have cared. If he made himself a leader in some obnoxious group that is trying to force "gay night" on Los Angeles' home opener, then that becomes a problem to me.

Hoosier Red
03-14-2010, 10:32 AM
I think there's something to what Smith is saying. Unfortunately, if a player were to be openly gay today, he'd have no choice but to have that be the first part of his identity as a ball player. He would be a leader in the gay community, and most players don't want to deal with that.

The example of Ellen is a good one, because her show was the first one focusing on a gay woman, it had to be about her being gay. And because of that it lost a lot of other aspects of her personality. 5-10 years later she came out with her talk show, when she no longer had to be THE leader of the gay community, and the show featured her whole personality.

westofyou
03-14-2010, 10:52 AM
Like I said... Pitchforks and Torches.

Roy Tucker
03-14-2010, 02:01 PM
I think its a matter of personal privacy what someones sexual orientation is. In my values, its a component of the love someone has for another. So, from that standpoint, I do care about love in humankind. We never have enough of that. But who someone loves or cares for, that's not my business. Being public or private about it is their choice.

I think it would make modern society more accepting and probably a little bit of a better place if a baseball player were to come out. It would take enormous courage and strength and frankly, their career and life would never be the same. Maybe not the lifelong enormity of a Jackie Robinson, but it would be getting up there. The grief they'd take would be tremendous. I can't blame a player for staying private about their sexuality at all.

RedEye
03-14-2010, 04:26 PM
The problem with comments like "I don't care about what a person does behind closed doors" is that it pretends that we're all playing on a level field. Fact is, we're just not. The only reason anyone needs to "come out" in the first place is because of a long, long history of repression and oppression. The only reason there are events like "coming out weeks" and "pride parades" is that being gay can be a very difficult experience in a society where there are so many people who, quite simply, "don't want to hear about it" unless, well, it's straight. Sexual orientation is not a "lifestyle" for gay folks any more than it is for straight folks. It's who they are--and they shouldn't have to pretend that they are something else just to please those of us who are comfortable in our heteronormative universes.

Okay, that's my two cents. As I'm sure you can tell, I think the first high-profile, openly gay ballplayer would be a big, big deal. And it wouldn't be easy for him at all.

Sea Ray
03-14-2010, 05:09 PM
I don't know anything about the sexual orientation of any Reds players but I wouldn't be so quick to say "I couldn't care less" because any team could have a gay player already.

That gay player probably would be a very private person with "issues" like Khalil Greene or our own first baseman due to the realities of the game in general. In the latter example, such a revelation would be discussed on this site for a month and would have nearly 1000 replies. It would be an issue well beyond this site. I might even go so far as to say he couldn't play under such conditions. It would end his career as we know it.

I wouldn't say so much that I don't care but I will say I don't want to know.

RedEye
03-14-2010, 05:25 PM
That gay player probably would be a very private person with "issues" like Khalil Greene or our own first baseman due to the realities of the game in general.


Perhaps. Or perhaps he would be gregarious and open-faced like Sean Casey. Fact is, there is just as much variation of personality types in the gay population as there is in the straight one.