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Red in Atl
03-12-2010, 06:09 PM
If the Twins can't sign Joe Mauer, I think we need to go get him and make this the second coming of TBRM.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Mauer-trade-possible-;_ylt=AojcYdIC.eyX2eCE2C_mWysRvLYF?urn=mlb,227395

He's the kind of catcher that could transform this team for years. And right now it seems like we are on the verge of being a very competitive team with some great young players.

And we have some big contracts coming off the books before we need to start paying big contracts back. Plus we have a lot of talent that might actually be some great trading pieces.

Cordero's contract is done after this year, and Harang's could be too. Those two would free up the money to sign Mauer. And our young talent could slide in to fill those two spots. Plus we have too many starting pitchers and outfielders that are almost primetime ready.

What do you guys think: Yonder, Maloney, Dorn and Hanigan enough?

GIDP
03-12-2010, 06:15 PM
Id imagine the Twins would want at least Bruce.

sivman17
03-12-2010, 06:18 PM
There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY the Reds would ever pay a guy 20-25 million a year.

NO WAY

but i would love it if they did

PhillipsHead
03-12-2010, 06:52 PM
Joe Mauer's not available. I call shenanigans...

mdccclxix
03-12-2010, 07:12 PM
Meso
Yonder
Fairel
Driessen

I'd love this to happen. Mauer at the deadline...in his prime from 27 y/o to 33 y/o. resign him for 6 years 25 per...yum.

MBZags
03-12-2010, 07:22 PM
Joe Mauer's not available. I call shenanigans...

Agreed. Mauer is a Minnesota kid, and I think a contract will eventually get hammered out. Further, he is the quintessential franchise player to build around. The Twins would be moronic to lose him.

Vottomatic
03-12-2010, 08:58 PM
He's not going anywhere. And if he does, he ain't coming to Cincinnati.

nemesis
03-12-2010, 09:01 PM
Meso
Yonder
Fairel
Driessen

I'd love this to happen. Mauer at the deadline...in his prime from 27 y/o to 33 y/o. resign him for 6 years 25 per...yum.

That wouldn't get us in the door. Think Cueto, Alonso, Heisey and Maloney.

Kingspoint
03-12-2010, 09:16 PM
If the Twins can't sign Joe Mauer, I think we need to go get him and make this the second coming of TBRM.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Mauer-trade-possible-;_ylt=AojcYdIC.eyX2eCE2C_mWysRvLYF?urn=mlb,227395

He's the kind of catcher that could transform this team for years. And right now it seems like we are on the verge of being a very competitive team with some great young players.

And we have some big contracts coming off the books before we need to start paying big contracts back. Plus we have a lot of talent that might actually be some great trading pieces.

Cordero's contract is done after this year, and Harang's could be too. Those two would free up the money to sign Mauer. And our young talent could slide in to fill those two spots. Plus we have too many starting pitchers and outfielders that are almost primetime ready.

What do you guys think: Yonder, Maloney, Dorn and Hanigan enough?

Someone asked, "What do you do with the money that comes off the books at the end of this year (about $25M or so)?

I didn't post a response, but my first thought was get an All-Star Catcher.

Well, looky-here!

mdccclxix
03-12-2010, 10:58 PM
That wouldn't get us in the door. Think Cueto, Alonso, Heisey and Maloney.

At the deadline? I look at what the Phillies gave up for Halladay and think you're overpaying there with Cueto.

Vottomatic
03-13-2010, 09:50 AM
That wouldn't get us in the door. Think Cueto, Alonso, Heisey and Maloney.

I would never trade Heisey. Think Votto redux. The guy is going to be a stud in mlb.

With all our starting pitching, I'd trade Cueto. And I'd trade Alonso in a heartbeat.

Cueto, Alonso, Maloney and some lower level prospects. We can't afford Mauer though.

But if we did that deal, you could write our name in for the playoffs right now.

HalMorrisRules
03-13-2010, 12:23 PM
Cordero's contract is done after this year, and Harang's could be too.

Cordero is signed for two more years. His contract was a four year deal and he has played for two seasons with the Reds.

BLEEDS
03-13-2010, 08:08 PM
Someone asked, "What do you do with the money that comes off the books at the end of this year (about $25M or so)?

I didn't post a response, but my first thought was get an All-Star Catcher.

Well, looky-here!

Okay, so NOW we agree on something.

Actually my point with that question about the payflex was that we really don't - or won't - have a huge gap anywhere in a year or so, depending upon the development in LF.

With Heisey looking like the real deal, and Fransisco, Frazier, Alonso/his trade return, we MIGHT get a young cheap .850 OPS bat with above average D out there.
Stubbs in CF, Bruce in RF, we have enough value perhaps. Rolen/Frazier/Francisco at 3B, BP/Frazier/Valaika at 2B, Vottomatic at 1B.
That REALLY only leaves SS and C.
I don't see anywhere really to trade/FA at SS - so let Cozart develop there and hit 8th.

$25M for Mauer to play All-Star/MVP/Batting Champion-level backstop?
Just might be the ticket!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

joshua
03-13-2010, 09:30 PM
What would it take to get Russell Martin from the Dodgers?

ian_madden
03-14-2010, 12:54 PM
Mauer is going to be a Twin for life. He will give them a discount and they will be good for years.

But if we could get him, I say look at the minors and pick. 2 pitchers and 2 position players. (Chapman off limits)

Ghosts of 1990
03-14-2010, 01:30 PM
We really don't have enough to offer them to get Mauer

DannyB
03-14-2010, 01:54 PM
At the deadline? I look at what the Phillies gave up for Halladay and think you're overpaying there with Cueto.
Not to mention what Dunn brought us.

joshua
03-14-2010, 04:43 PM
We should get Derek Norris from the Nationals.

OGB
03-15-2010, 09:39 PM
That wouldn't get us in the door. Think Cueto, Alonso, Heisey and Maloney.
This is a lot more realistic than the first couple suggestions made in this thread.
The Twins would want at least one young Reds player who is already in the bigs. I'm sure they like their chances of making the playoffs this year even without a healthy Joe Nathan. They aren't going to trade their best player for a handful of guys that need at least another year or two in the minors.

That said, I don't think the Twins let Mauer get away.

I'd trade Cueto Alonso Heisey Phillips and Wood to get Mauer if the Reds were convinced they could sign him.

bounty37h
03-16-2010, 11:04 AM
This is a lot more realistic than the first couple suggestions made in this thread.
The Twins would want at least one young Reds player who is already in the bigs. I'm sure they like their chances of making the playoffs this year even without a healthy Joe Nathan. They aren't going to trade their best player for a handful of guys that need at least another year or two in the minors.

That said, I don't think the Twins let Mauer get away.

I'd trade Cueto Alonso Heisey Phillips and Wood to get Mauer if the Reds were convinced they could sign him.

While I LOVE Mauer as a catcher and would kill to have him in red, that is highway rape to get him; as a catcher he *likely* doesn't have that many years left at this level to make that trade worth it IMO.

GIDP
03-16-2010, 11:26 AM
While I LOVE Mauer as a catcher and would kill to have him in red, that is highway rape to get him; as a catcher he *likely* doesn't have that many years left at this level to make that trade worth it IMO.

He's 26 and was the best player in the league last year, and when you compare him to his peers its amazing how good the guy is.

Mauers Career OPS is .892
The highest single season OPS in the last 5 years from any catcher not named Mauer is Posada in 2007 with a .970, the next highest? Brian McCann .896 in 2008. Plus Mauer brings GG defense. The guy is that good.

I would want half a major league roster for a player like him.

Griffey012
03-16-2010, 11:32 AM
He's 26 and was the best player in the league last year, and when you compare him to his peers its amazing how good the guy is.

I would want half a major league roster for a player like him.

Give me Pujols instead of him everyday of the week.

GIDP
03-16-2010, 11:39 AM
Give me Pujols instead of him everyday of the week.

Mauer being a catcher makes him the best player in the league.

Maybe we can split hairs but compare Pujols to the other 1st basemen in the league then compare Mauer to the other catchers.

BLEEDS
03-16-2010, 11:44 AM
He's 26 and was the best player in the league last year, and when you compare him to his peers its amazing how good the guy is.

I would want half a major league roster for a player like him.

Well we do have an entire "extra" MLB starting pitching rotation we could tinker with, along with about 18 OF/1B/3B prospects.
They don't need 1B, but could use a corner IF type who could mash and play DH since Thome is only there for a year. Do we know anybody who fits that bill?!

pick one:
Cueto
Volquez

pick one:
Maloney
Owings
Wood
Lecure

pick one:
Burton (they could use him as a closer this year?)
Fisher
Del Rosario

pick one:
Alonso (heir-apparent DH)
Francisco (heir-apparent 3B/LF)
Valaika

Want one more? Throw in Delmon Young.
Easy Peasy!!

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Griffey012
03-16-2010, 07:49 PM
Mauer being a catcher makes him the best player in the league.

Maybe we can split hairs but compare Pujols to the other 1st basemen in the league then compare Mauer to the other catchers.

Pujols WORST season in the MLB was 07 with 32 HRs, 103 RBI's .327/.429/.568 for an OPS of .997. While playing GG defense at first base.

Mauer's best season in the MLB was last season with 28 HR's, 96 RBI's .365/.444/.586 for an OPS of 1.031. Not to mention his previous career high in HR's was 13. His number compare very closely to Brian McCann's and Victor Martinez in their career's. He could easily be back to hitting 12-15 homerun's next year.

I know hitting catcher is a rarity in today's game, but Pujols may be the best hitter of all-time when he is all said and done. His consistency is off the charts and he has been very durable, something that is not as true for Mauer. Mauer has been more durable than ESPN make's him out to be though.

As you said it is pretty much splitting hairs, but in our situation in Cincy I would take Pujols without a doubt, because we couldn't afford Mauer being a little more risky.

GIDP
03-16-2010, 08:07 PM
As a single player Pujols is better yes, but when you take what Mauer can do behind the plate compared to what an average catcher can do he and an average 1st baseman is going to win you more games than Pujols and an average catcher.

Mauer because of his position is a wiser way to spend money and resources than the alternative scenario with Pujols.

Newport Red
03-16-2010, 08:39 PM
Investing 20% of total payroll on a single player is playing with fire. Especially at a position that is one foul tip away from the 60 day DL.If they can't resist, make sure that player plays first or left field. That way you maximize the chances of him playing the entire year.

gedred69
03-16-2010, 09:54 PM
Attending ST based in Ft. Myers where the Twins are, I have had the opportunity to witness Mauer the person, interact with the fans. What a great apostle he is for the Twins. He is such a leader, even though he has a teamate named Morneau, Mauer is the man. That said, he is a hometown boy, and there is no way in hell he's going anywhere else. He puts 1/2 the fans in their stadium by himself. He will discount his worth to stay at home, and the Twins will give him enough that will avoid any temptation.

(I still fantasize about him in a Reds uniform though)......

PhatHead
03-16-2010, 10:33 PM
Mauer is going to be a Twin for life. He will give them a discount and they will be good for years.....(snip)

He's the most popular Twin since Kirby and should be a Twin for life.

Red in Atl
03-17-2010, 09:40 PM
Attending ST based in Ft. Myers where the Twins are, I have had the opportunity to witness Mauer the person, interact with the fans. What a great apostle he is for the Twins. He is such a leader, even though he has a teamate named Morneau, Mauer is the man. That said, he is a hometown boy, and there is no way in hell he's going anywhere else. He puts 1/2 the fans in their stadium by himself. He will discount his worth to stay at home, and the Twins will give him enough that will avoid any temptation.

(I still fantasize about him in a Reds uniform though)......

When I started this thread this was pretty much what I thought, but it just struck me how a guy like Mauer could complete this team. And we haven't had a complete team since the BRM. We had a nice mix of young and old, mixed with some career years that gave us the '90 WS, but we haven't had even close to a real "team" since.

I am so stoked about what this next few years could really be like, even though we are the lower tier in salary. I just feel like management finally gets it. Get's what they have to do to compete and still have a lower tier payroll.

If we didn't draft another decent player for the next 3 years, we should/could, at least on paper, be a decent team. So just think about if we continue down this path; drafting good young pitching, being frugal with FA signings, stocking our minor leagues with great talent, trading the older guys for youth when their prices start getting too high and finding guys like Rolen and Cabrera to fill gaps and help train and lead the younger guys. And don't forget getting quality people. Hard workers, guys who want to learn, play the game right, etc. It all sounds cliche when you type it, but when you see it gelling on the field. You realize it's importance.

I'm not saying that the Reds will win the WS this year or any year coming up. But I see a team that has finally realized that trying to win on the cheap, hope Don Gullet can save an almost servered arm, pick trash off the trash heap, etc. only gets a few buts in the seats. Developing talent, making the occasional splash and having good leadership is the way to be successful on and off the field.

In a perfect world, Bob Howsman would not only trade and get our missing Johnny Bench catcher, he'd steal the guy. And we'd reap the rewards. So isn't fun to think about that on top of all the good feeling this off season has been? I think a lot of people who've replied think so. Thanks for helping stoke my dreams, while I sit here waiting for a small sign of spring to sprout and take me away from this dreadful winter.

bounty37h
03-18-2010, 12:38 PM
He's 26 and was the best player in the league last year, and when you compare him to his peers its amazing how good the guy is.

Mauers Career OPS is .892
The highest single season OPS in the last 5 years from any catcher not named Mauer is Posada in 2007 with a .970, the next highest? Brian McCann .896 in 2008. Plus Mauer brings GG defense. The guy is that good.

I would want half a major league roster for a player like him.

I have seen him play, I know he is that good, and I am a catcher, so knwo the value of that position. I was simply responding to what the poster had said he would trade for him ("I'd trade Cueto Alonso Heisey Phillips and Wood to get Mauer") , and I feel that is way too much for us to be abel to give up for him, as bad as I would love to have him....If we had him I would want that much as well in return for him, but doubt many teams can/woud give up that much

BigJohn
03-18-2010, 02:40 PM
It is not TOO MUCH!!!!!!!

If they would make the trade, I would do it today!

:beerme:

OGB
03-19-2010, 07:38 AM
I have seen him play, I know he is that good, and I am a catcher, so knwo the value of that position. I was simply responding to what the poster had said he would trade for him ("I'd trade Cueto Alonso Heisey Phillips and Wood to get Mauer") , and I feel that is way too much for us to be abel to give up for him, as bad as I would love to have him....If we had him I would want that much as well in return for him, but doubt many teams can/woud give up that much

I was using a bit of hyperbole, but I don't think it's too far off from what he'd command in a trade or what he is worth for that matter. Consider the principles involved-- Mauer is one of the 2-3 best offensive players in the game in the prime of his career and one of the best denfensive catchers in baseball. He is light years ahead of what the Reds have at that position right now. Plus, one of this team's biggest weaknesses is OBP. Imagine Mauer sitting next to Votto in your lineup.

Only 2 of the 5 mentioned are current big leaguers, and while I think Cueto could be a Cy Young type guy in the future, he is still far removed from that. The Reds also have 3 other young pitchers who fit that same "future Cy Young" description. Phillips is an excellent all around 2nd baseman, but I've seen it speculated on here before that he's not in the Reds plans once his current contract is up and I tend to agree. Also, you have to figure that the 2011 rotation could potentially have Bailey, Volquez, Chapman, and Leake, Harang and Arroyo have option years, and Maloney is also in the mix. Point is, they have some depth. Thats a lot of talent to lose, but not exactly mortgaging your future.

I'm not saying I make that exact trade, but I wouldnt hate it if it happened. I guess what I was really getting at is how silly and far off many fans tend to be when speculating on trades,* for example, "how about we offer Balentien, Heisey, Valaika and Lincoln for Hanley Ramirez?"
They probably wouldnt have to go that high, but I think if Mauer was signed and stayed healthy, it could be worth it. The biggest hang up is what another poster mentioned about 1 player eating up that much of your payroll.

*The fans here are clearly intelligent. You get this type of comment more on sports talk radio which I listen to a lot of in my car with no working cd player.

bounty37h
03-19-2010, 11:22 AM
I was using a bit of hyperbole, but I don't think it's too far off from what he'd command in a trade or what he is worth for that matter. Consider the principles involved-- Mauer is one of the 2-3 best offensive players in the game in the prime of his career and one of the best denfensive catchers in baseball. He is light years ahead of what the Reds have at that position right now. Plus, one of this team's biggest weaknesses is OBP. Imagine Mauer sitting next to Votto in your lineup.

Only 2 of the 5 mentioned are current big leaguers, and while I think Cueto could be a Cy Young type guy in the future, he is still far removed from that. The Reds also have 3 other young pitchers who fit that same "future Cy Young" description. Phillips is an excellent all around 2nd baseman, but I've seen it speculated on here before that he's not in the Reds plans once his current contract is up and I tend to agree. Also, you have to figure that the 2011 rotation could potentially have Bailey, Volquez, Chapman, and Leake, Harang and Arroyo have option years, and Maloney is also in the mix. Point is, they have some depth. Thats a lot of talent to lose, but not exactly mortgaging your future.

I'm not saying I make that exact trade, but I wouldnt hate it if it happened. I guess what I was really getting at is how silly and far off many fans tend to be when speculating on trades,* for example, "how about we offer Balentien, Heisey, Valaika and Lincoln for Hanley Ramirez?"
They probably wouldnt have to go that high, but I think if Mauer was signed and stayed healthy, it could be worth it. The biggest hang up is what another poster mentioned about 1 player eating up that much of your payroll.

*The fans here are clearly intelligent. You get this type of comment more on sports talk radio which I listen to a lot of in my car with no working cd player.

Oh, I am totally with you, I realize it would take something like that to get him, and rightfully so, just dont know if I would be willing to actually give up that much for him. If we had him, I would want that and more for him, for sure!!! Maybe if our system continues to gaina surplus pof talent we cold do it, but just dont think we could handle that right now, not quite yet. One player eating up that much, and espo a catcher, where knees andd backs give out quicker then other positions makes it a tough call. I would KILL to have a Joe Mauer on our team though, we havent had a great catcher in years.

BLEEDS
03-19-2010, 11:25 AM
Totally agree OGB

If the Twins said they wanted Cueto, Alonso, Heisey, Phillips, and Wood for Mauer, I don't know if I could sign the thing fast enough!

I didn't include Phillips in my groups of "pick one" earlier, but hey if they want to take an $11M 2B-man off our hands - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do it before they come to their senses.
I guess that would be the off-setting "cost" for giving up Heisey.

Cueto and Woods - sure they are a lot, but I could see any other 2 of our 8-10 starting pitchers (one from the "Big Team" and one from the minors) considered worse (from the Reds standpoint) by comparison. Wood, IMO, has the lowest ceiling of our prospects, outside of Maloney. That makes him expendable being that we already have a couple other lefties.

Alonso is the key to the deal though - he'd be an IDEAL 1B-man for them, and eventual DH. Dude's future is in the AL, and Minnesota would love a guy like him, who could be their cornerstone/franchise.

It may not take as much as the above, but if you are throwing in contracts (like Phllips) they are going to want additional prospects (like Heisey, Francisco, etc).

Surely if we got an All-Star/MVP-caliber C right now, we would be poised for a serious run for the next 2-3 years with all of the young talent we have. And, again, we have so much in the pipeline - many of whom are "blocked" right now - that we would be an ideal trading partner for many folks, Minnesota in particular.

Of course, this is probably a pipe dream as Minnesota would be wise to lock this guy up for a decade.
BUT, if trading him became the only option, we could definitely give them a mother-load to make up for his loss.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Girevik
03-19-2010, 04:18 PM
Just for the sake of argument, what would it take to sign him if a trade were made (do they allow the window to try to work out a contract during the season like they did when the Reds got Griffey)? You have to figure that Cincy isn't getting any kind of discount for him, and Mauer and his agent would know that if Cincy gave up that kind of talent for him they'd pretty much HAVE to sign him long term. That gives them an awful lot of leverage in negotiations.

Kingspoint
03-19-2010, 08:18 PM
Alonso is the key to the deal though - he'd be an IDEAL 1B-man for them, and eventual DH. Dude's future is in the AL, and Minnesota would love a guy like him, who could be their cornerstone/franchise.


He'd be there new Kent Hrbek.

gedred69
03-19-2010, 10:59 PM
The players proposed given up to the Twins, are consistent with their very successful system. It would give them young talent to always stay in the "hunt", just like they already do. Problem is, could the Reds keep him here for the next 3 years?

Vottomatic
03-21-2010, 11:49 AM
The Reds cannot afford him, plain and simple.

End of discussion.

BLEEDS
03-21-2010, 12:44 PM
The Reds cannot afford him, plain and simple.

End of discussion.

Wrong answer.

The Reds could EASILY afford one $20-25M contract - especially with Harang/Arroyo off the books next year if not traded this year, and if MIN considered taking Brandon Phillips and his $11M contract, and even more so if they traded away Cordero and his $12M contract.

The payroll budgeted for next year is $45M-ish, with BP and Cordero, and only Votto and Cueto as arbitration-eligible guys worth worrying about.
In 2011 Bruce and Bailey join the arb pool, along with possibly Volquez.

We are a ridiculously young and cheap team right now with a couple notable exceptions, 1/2 of which are options to drop and probably candidates to trade at any point this or next year.

ONE big contract - especially on an MVP-caliber Catcher - is definitely not a problem financially.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Red in Atl
03-21-2010, 06:03 PM
I love Brandon...but he does become quite an expensive 2nd baseman...if Frazier can do the job, we save serious money and free up the 4 hole for Bruce.

GIDP
03-21-2010, 06:47 PM
Supposedly the Twins have released a statement saying they have agreed to a deal.

GIDP
03-21-2010, 06:49 PM
8 years 23 million per

Vottomatic
03-21-2010, 07:18 PM
Wrong answer.

The Reds could EASILY afford one $20-25M contract - especially with Harang/Arroyo off the books next year if not traded this year, and if MIN considered taking Brandon Phillips and his $11M contract, and even more so if they traded away Cordero and his $12M contract.

The payroll budgeted for next year is $45M-ish, with BP and Cordero, and only Votto and Cueto as arbitration-eligible guys worth worrying about.
In 2011 Bruce and Bailey join the arb pool, along with possibly Volquez.

We are a ridiculously young and cheap team right now with a couple notable exceptions, 1/2 of which are options to drop and probably candidates to trade at any point this or next year.

ONE big contract - especially on an MVP-caliber Catcher - is definitely not a problem financially.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Ken Griffey Junior all over again.

Enjoy missing the playoffs another 10 years.

Jim
03-22-2010, 09:03 AM
8 yr $128Mil

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5016230&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines

Kingspoint
03-22-2010, 03:31 PM
Ken Griffey Junior all over again.

Enjoy missing the playoffs another 10 years.


It's going to be different because Mauer is a Catcher and is a much better player at this time than when the REDS got Junior in the trade for Cameron. Plus, the REDS had the Anti-GM in Bowden, and a horrible owner who didn't give a rat's patutti about winning.

This signing is going to put the Twins in contention every year for the next 8 years, including this year. The Twins won't see a below-.500 season until after Mauer leaves Minnesota.