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savafan
03-17-2010, 10:19 AM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/03/nationals-release-elijah-dukes.html

The Nationals released outfielder Elijah Dukes, according to a team press release. According to a tweet from MASN's Ben Goessling, the move had nothing to do with off-the-field issues...

Benihana
03-17-2010, 10:24 AM
I'd happily take a flyer

TRF
03-17-2010, 10:25 AM
wow. just, wow. Must have been some kind of clubhouse issue. He has way to much talent.

membengal
03-17-2010, 10:30 AM
I'd happily take a flyer

Not me.

Far East
03-17-2010, 10:33 AM
Stats "projected" over a 162 game season:

BA .242

OBP .349

SLG .421

OPS .770

westofyou
03-17-2010, 10:35 AM
Jocketty isn't known for picking up guys that are not "group think" baseball players, nor is Baker really either.

membengal
03-17-2010, 10:39 AM
To expand on the "not me" stuff...if this were 2006, sure, take a flier. But not now. I like the direction this team is headed, I like the OF options available to it, I like the possiblity that it can deal from general depth to acquire an OF if it desires to, and don't want to inject someone who clearly has emotional challenges.

JaxRed
03-17-2010, 10:56 AM
I'd take a Minor League Flyer.....

OnBaseMachine
03-17-2010, 10:58 AM
Wow, I'm very surprised by this move. He's got a ton of talent and is still only 25. Count me in favor of the Reds picking him up.

TRF
03-17-2010, 11:01 AM
I'm betting the Pirates or Royals, Maybe the Giants. And I wouldn't discount Detroit.

edabbs44
03-17-2010, 11:29 AM
I'm not sure he would be worth the risk. The team has some good young talent (especially in the OF) and he wouldn't necessarily upgrade anywhere while having the potential to be quite the distraction.

He has potential, but will he ever reach it and is it worth the downside?

Roy Tucker
03-17-2010, 11:33 AM
Its the scout in me. You watch Dukes on the field and at-bat and the guy has major talent.

But there has to be some serious being-a-team-guy issues for Washington to dump him. Its not like they are overflowing with OF talent.

Reluctantly, I'd say pass. The Reds are too young to let someone like him pollute the well.

RedsManRick
03-17-2010, 11:36 AM
He won't be unemployed long. Most of the projection systems put him around an .800 OPS.

TRF
03-17-2010, 11:39 AM
This is Dukes wakeup call. Not being traded by TB. This. And while the teams i mentioned might have a need or place for him, the smart thing is for them to wait, possibly until the 1st or 2nd week of the season. Then sign him to a minor league contract. Dukes clearly needs to be humbled. Actually, humbled isn't the exact right word. Cold water. slap in the face. shock. Something to make him realize the game is bigger than his attitude towards it and his teammates. He's 25 and filled with talent.

Is he Willie Green, with no love for the game? Or can he be Jim Edmonds, still in love with it at age 39 and determined to win a starting job?

Benihana
03-17-2010, 11:47 AM
I'm not sure he would be worth the risk. The team has some good young talent (especially in the OF) and he wouldn't necessarily upgrade anywhere while having the potential to be quite the distraction.

He has potential, but will he ever reach it and is it worth the downside?

Dukes could easily be the long-term answer in LF. Between Dukes, Balentien, and Francisco, there is ultra upside. At least one of them should realize their potential, and if/when they do, they would reward the Reds for years to come.

That upside should be at least an .820 OPS with above average defense for LF? Count me in.

As far as the downside goes, if he acts up off the field, he's gone. What's the downside?

bucksfan2
03-17-2010, 11:53 AM
He won't be unemployed long. Most of the projection systems put him around an .800 OPS.

This is one of those moves that makes you scratch your head. A guy who can OPS around .800 belongs on a MLB roster somewhere. It is especially puzzling to see a team such as Washington cut him.

But as more time passes details start to get leaked as to why Dukes was cut and then its like a light bulb goes off in your head and you say "Ah... that's why Dukes was cut".

RedsManRick
03-17-2010, 11:57 AM
This is one of those moves that makes you scratch your head. A guy who can OPS around .800 belongs on a MLB roster somewhere. It is especially puzzling to see a team such as Washington cut him.

But as more time passes details start to get leaked as to why Dukes was cut and then its like a light bulb goes off in your head and you say "Ah... that's why Dukes was cut".

Yeah, it just doesn't add up. As far as I can tell, there is no justifiable baseball reason for him to be cut. It's got to be off the field related.

lollipopcurve
03-17-2010, 11:58 AM
Wouldn't touch him.

pedro
03-17-2010, 12:49 PM
From everything I've read about this guy he's a bad human being. I don't care how talented he is it's just not worth introducing that type of person into the clubhouse.

Eric_the_Red
03-17-2010, 12:52 PM
He hasn't really been in trouble for a few years. Maybe he is maturing?

I too wonder what the reason behind his release may be. If for some reason it isn't a behavioral or off-the-field issue, then I would be all for the Reds offering him a minor league deal.

And, I assume everyone so opposed to Dukes was also against getting Josh Hamilton?

flyer85
03-17-2010, 12:54 PM
And, I assume everyone so opposed to Dukes was also against getting Josh Hamilton?the only person Hamilton ever abused was himself ... can't say the same for Dukes.

westofyou
03-17-2010, 12:55 PM
He hasn't really been in trouble for a few years. Maybe he is maturing?

I too wonder what the reason behind his release may be. If for some reason it isn't a behavioral or off-the-field issue, then I would be all for the Reds offering him a minor league deal.

And, I assume everyone so opposed to Dukes was also against getting Josh Hamilton?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2010/03/elijah_dukes_released.html



General manager Mike Rizzo called the release "a performance-based decision" but also implied Dukes's place in the clubhouse adversely affected the Nationals. Rizzo said the Nationals "will be a more cohesive, united group" without Dukes.

"The clubhouse will be more united," Rizzo said. "We'll have a better feel around the ballclub. We'll gain just by that alone."

The Nationals discussed the possibility of parting ways with Dukes this winter, Rizzo said. The Nationals "made several inquiries to many" teams, Rizzo said. "We found there was no interest in a trade for Elijah." The Nationals could have also optioned Dukes to the minor leagues, but they felt he had peaked in his development, Rizzo said.

pedro
03-17-2010, 01:11 PM
Pretty sure Josh Hamilton never threatened to kill anyone and murder their children too.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/23/Tampabay/Ballplayer_s_wife__He.shtml

TheNext44
03-17-2010, 01:12 PM
He really wasn't very good after coming back from the disabled list last year:

.238 .332 .357 .689

and was having a terrible spring;

.150 .261 .250 .511


Maybe they saw something last year that pointed to him being on the decline?

NC Reds
03-17-2010, 01:18 PM
Pass.

edabbs44
03-17-2010, 01:19 PM
Pretty sure Josh Hamilton never threatened to kill anyone and murder their children too.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/23/Tampabay/Ballplayer_s_wife__He.shtml

Yeah, that's kind of a problem.

klw
03-17-2010, 02:41 PM
If nobody has jumped on Wily Mo after his DWL performance and no off field issues, it could be a a wait for Mr. Dukes.

Marc D
03-17-2010, 02:49 PM
Just to play devils advocate a bit but Phillips was supposed to be a talented clubhouse cancer as well.

Just throwing it out there that sometimes the prima donna types come back to earth a little after the slap in the face of being cut/traded and the new scenery brings out their best behavior. Other times, not so much.

Its all pretty subjective but if they thought he was worth the risk, its always a good idea to stockpile talented players.

AtomicDumpling
03-17-2010, 02:51 PM
The Bengals will sign him. :cool:

RedsManRick
03-17-2010, 03:08 PM
If nobody has jumped on Wily Mo after his DWL performance and no off field issues, it could be a a wait for Mr. Dukes.

Wily Mo had talent issues, namely an inability to hit anything other than a fastball. Dukes can hit at the major league level.

edabbs44
03-17-2010, 03:10 PM
Just to play devils advocate a bit but Phillips was supposed to be a talented clubhouse cancer as well.

Just throwing it out there that sometimes the prima donna types come back to earth a little after the slap in the face of being cut/traded and the new scenery brings out their best behavior. Other times, not so much.

Its all pretty subjective but if they thought he was worth the risk, its always a good idea to stockpile talented players.

I think Dukes is a little more than just a prima donna. Threatening to kill your wife and kids is a bit different.

TRF
03-17-2010, 03:11 PM
Wily Mo had talent issues, namely an inability to hit anything other than a fastball. Dukes can hit at the major league level.

So could WMP... and I agree with the thought that it might be a while if/when he is signed.

WMP had all the talent and none of the proper development. And he NEEDED the development.

Eric_the_Red
03-17-2010, 03:24 PM
Hamilton stole from family (including his wife's wedding ring) to get drugs. Not exactly victimless crimes.

Just sayin'.

Unassisted
03-17-2010, 04:24 PM
I think he'd be a great addition to the Cardinals or Cubs clubhouse. :thumbup:

pedro
03-17-2010, 04:28 PM
Hamilton stole from family (including his wife's wedding ring) to get drugs. Not exactly victimless crimes.

Just sayin'.

That does suck. Still I think Elijah Duke is a potential sociopath so that IMO puts him in an entirely different class.

LoganBuck
03-17-2010, 04:53 PM
Just to play devils advocate a bit but Phillips was supposed to be a talented clubhouse cancer as well.


And we all know how much Brandon Phillips has matured. If Phillips didn't have older players around him, I suspect that he would still have issues.

Orenda
03-18-2010, 03:39 AM
I predict he winds up on the west coast (sf, oakland, or san diego)

reds44
03-18-2010, 03:45 AM
And we all know how much Brandon Phillips has matured. If Phillips didn't have older players around him, I suspect that he would still have issues.
And Phillips didn't have the "bad person" issues that Dukes does.

Topcat
03-18-2010, 04:10 AM
Tempting sure. But reality tells me he is not worth the bother. Maturity issues and violence issues with him far out weigh any gain he can bring to the team.

GAC
03-18-2010, 04:22 AM
Pretty sure Josh Hamilton never threatened to kill anyone and murder their children too.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/23/Tampabay/Ballplayer_s_wife__He.shtml


"You dead, dawg," says an angry voice. "I ain't even bulls-------. Your kids, too."

Simply Wow! :eek:

Pass big time.

reds1869
03-18-2010, 07:08 AM
No way. The article from the St. Pete paper tells me everything I need to know. Is he talented? Sure, but to put up with those kinds of off the field issues you better be Barry Freaking Bonds.

westofyou
03-18-2010, 09:53 AM
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2011366871_apbbnnationalsdukesreleased.html?syndic ation=rss



Wednesday was the last day the Nationals could put him on waivers and pay him 30 days’ termination pay at the minor league rate of his split contract instead of 45 days at the major league rate. So he is owed a little under $41,000, instead of about $109,000, which he would have been due had he been released later in spring training.

Manager Jim Riggleman, general manager Mike Rizzo and team president Stan Kasten all emphasized that the move was based on Dukes’ performance and was not connected to any off-the-field issues. Rizzo, though, did say he thinks Dukes’ departure improves the team’s makeup.

“Elijah was great,” Riggleman said. “He’s done his work. He’s got no issues. It’s just a baseball decision.”

osuceltic
03-18-2010, 09:54 AM
Yeah, it just doesn't add up. As far as I can tell, there is no justifiable baseball reason for him to be cut. It's got to be off the field related.

No offense, but this made me laugh. RMR, you should change your moniker to Captain Obvious.

JaxRed
03-18-2010, 09:59 AM
After reading the article, I'd pass. Even for a minor league flyer.

savafan
03-18-2010, 12:14 PM
Sure, but it's not like he actually killed anyone. Even the NFL wouldn't blink at these "off the field problems".

pedro
03-18-2010, 12:34 PM
Sure, but it's not like he actually killed anyone. Even the NFL wouldn't blink at these "off the field problems".

That's comforting.

mth123
03-18-2010, 07:41 PM
I'm not as high on our outfield kids as many on here are. I think there aren't many impact guys but a bunch of 4th OFers, defensive specialists and guys who could start by default but never really be a strength. Talent-wise only Bruce is ahead of Dukes, but after reading that, I don't want him on the Reds or in their system.

I know it may be one sided , possibly exaggerated and definitely missing some facts, but I'd still pass.

redsfandan
03-19-2010, 09:51 AM
Sure, but it's not like he actually killed anyone. Even the NFL wouldn't blink at these "off the field problems".
Wow. If a guy attempts murder it's not the same as actually doing it. But it's still pretty bad.

So, are you saying that you'd like the Bengals to sign him and make him into a linebacker? I'm sure Dukes would have alot of fun hitting other teams wr's, rb's, qb's, ...

savafan
03-19-2010, 10:37 AM
So, are you saying that you'd like the Bengals to sign him and make him into a linebacker? I'm sure Dukes would have alot of fun hitting other teams wr's, rb's, qb's, ...

As a Browns fan, I could care less. ;)

Marc D
03-19-2010, 10:44 AM
Wow. If a guy attempts murder it's not the same as actually doing it. But it's still pretty bad.

So, are you saying that you'd like the Bengals to sign him and make him into a linebacker? I'm sure Dukes would have alot of fun hitting other teams wr's, rb's, qb's, ...


The guys behavior as detailed in that article is nauseating but if we had a word for word account of some of Josh Hamilton's lowlights people very well could have been giving the same blanket dismissal. That article is 3 years old and he's done nothing else that I'm aware of.

My question would be how much of the on field potential is still there? If the answer is anything close to "a lot" what danger does a minor league contract hold? Even if its for a few weeks of him being on his best behavior and "scared straight" enough to play his very best, maybe you can flip him for something else a la Guillen? If he shows any sign of being a club house cancer you cut him. Easy as that.

This franchise is not to the point where it can just summarily dismiss a high reward/limited risk opportunity on talented ball players. Like mth123 said, I'm not sold on any of our OF prospects other than Bruce.

durl
03-19-2010, 05:32 PM
The guys behavior as detailed in that article is nauseating but if we had a word for word account of some of Josh Hamilton's lowlights people very well could have been giving the same blanket dismissal. That article is 3 years old and he's done nothing else that I'm aware of.

Valid points. We give Hamilton the benefit of the doubt because he's publicly taken steps to change. He had people around him who attempted to help keep him clean. And most, if not all, of his problems were self-destructive, not in threatening the lives of a woman (he "loves") and her child. Including a photo of a gun. That's scary stuff no matter how you look at it.

I would hope that the Reds would delve deeply into Dukes' personal life before taking a chance on him.

savafan
07-02-2010, 01:51 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/elijah-dukes-signs-with-newark-bears.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Elijah Dukes Signs With Newark Bears

klw
03-03-2011, 04:03 PM
Dukes does it again.
He is accused of slapping his pregnant ex-girlfriend
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Former-MLB-player-Elijah-Dukes-accused-of-hitting-pregnant-woman-030311

westofyou
03-03-2011, 04:14 PM
Fast tracking to do time he is.

muddie
03-03-2011, 05:24 PM
I surfed a few sites after plugging this guy's name in and wow, what a loser. This guy has major issues and I wouldn't touch him. I recall when he was playing for the Durham Bulls he made the news a time or two about his attitude and actions, neither being good.

edabbs44
03-03-2011, 09:34 PM
He is bi-losing.

PuffyPig
03-03-2011, 11:30 PM
Stats "projected" over a 162 game season:

BA .242

OBP .349

SLG .421

OPS .770

what would they project over a lesser amount of games?