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oneupper
03-19-2010, 07:23 PM
Just got this week and finally filled it out.

Simple enough, except for the questions surrounding ethnicity and race.
Frankly, I found it a bit disturbing that they require people to identify themselves with a specific "race" (and Latino or Hispanic isn't specific enough for them).

I put us all down as "Other", specifically "HUMAN".

Guess Im not alone:

http://www.kcra.com/news/22886503/detail.html

redsfandan
03-19-2010, 08:02 PM
I received mine about a week ago. For a minute I thought about making myself into a super minority. Something like a black transgendered pagan with a handicap. Instead I just tossed it aside into a pile of junk mail.

Newport Red
03-19-2010, 08:18 PM
I received mine about a week ago. For a minute I thought about making myself into a super minority. Something like a black transgendered pagan with a handicap. Instead I just tossed it aside into a pile of junk mail.

Think of it as your own jobs program. They'll have to hire someone to knock on your door. A 3 o 4 week stimulus plan.

M2
03-19-2010, 09:55 PM
I don't get the freak out over the race question (not folks here, just around the nation in general). It helps the government understand population trends. We should want the government to have good information instead of bad information. It inoculates against bad decisions.

Plus, it's not like it's a secret that I'm a white guy.

I can see where it's a hassle for Hispanic folks, but I suspect the reason for the fragmentation is because the Census Bureau is trying overly hard not to offend certain oversensitive individuals. I've heard the "I'm not a Hispanic/Latino/Chicano/etc., I'm a Hispanic/Latino/Chicano/etc." argument plenty of times. While I'm sympathetic whenever someone feels unfairly pigeonholed, in this case it does prevent the adoption of a useful generic term.

Reds Nd2
03-20-2010, 12:18 AM
We should want the government to have good information instead of bad information. It inoculates against bad decisions.

:lol:

It's never stopped 'em before.

As for the census, I'm getting married next month and moving to a neighboring state. I'm not sure if I should fill one out or not. The plan is to be moved out of the apartment before the census workers show up.

pahster
03-20-2010, 12:28 AM
:lol:

It's never stopped 'em before.

As for the census, I'm getting married next month and moving to a neighboring state. I'm not sure if I should fill one out or not. The plan is to be moved out of the apartment before the census workers show up.

These things even out in the aggregate. Go ahead and fill it out.

Data ftw.

LoganBuck
03-20-2010, 12:37 AM
:lol:

It's never stopped 'em before.

As for the census, I'm getting married next month and moving to a neighboring state. I'm not sure if I should fill one out or not. The plan is to be moved out of the apartment before the census workers show up.

I heard on the radio that for every household that doesn't fill one out, the government will spend roughly $50 to get the information. Fill out the darn paperwork! Do it for the general good.

I would be in favor of tacking on the expense to the 2010 tax burden of someone who doesn't fill it out.

919191
03-20-2010, 08:55 AM
I was really tempted to add fictional family members, but I resisted.

Reds Nd2
03-20-2010, 10:41 AM
These things even out in the aggregate. Go ahead and fill it out.

Data ftw.

I didn't really explain myself very well, my bad. What I meant was I don't know if I should fill one out for myself or have my fiance add me to hers. I plan on being counted, I'm just not sure where. For the sake of the enumeration, I think it would be best to be added to hers since that's the state I'll be living in for the forseesable future. I'm not sure how well that will play out once the census worker starts coming around though. It might be hard to convince them that I've already been counted.

M2
03-20-2010, 10:43 AM
:lol:

It's never stopped 'em before.

That's sort of my point. It needs all the help it can get.

Spazzrico
03-20-2010, 10:52 AM
I'm sympathetic to the idea that we should live in a society that is blind to the idea of race. But we aren't there yet and because there are such blatant differences in socio-economic outcomes that flow along race/ethnicity/gender lines it is most certainly worth enumerating at the very minimum.

I get the sense that some of the backlash against the race questions dovetail with the strong anti-government feeling permeating the streets at the moment. It's unfortunate that it is getting in the way of people performing their civic duty. Plus I'm a geographer so I want very accurate population data across the board.

I say fill em' out.

pahster
03-20-2010, 11:01 AM
I didn't really explain myself very well, my bad. What I meant was I don't know if I should fill one out for myself or have my fiance add me to hers. I plan on being counted, I'm just not sure where. For the sake of the enumeration, I think it would be best to be added to hers since that's the state I'll be living in for the forseesable future. I'm not sure how well that will play out once the census worker starts coming around though. It might be hard to convince them that I've already been counted.

Are you going to be living in your current place on April 1, 2010? If so, fill your form out.

pahster
03-20-2010, 11:02 AM
I'm sympathetic to the idea that we should live in a society that is blind to the idea of race. But we aren't there yet and because there are such blatant differences in socio-economic outcomes that flow along race/ethnicity/gender lines it is most certainly worth enumerating at the very minimum.

I get the sense that some of the backlash against the race questions dovetail with the strong anti-government feeling permeating the streets at the moment. It's unfortunate that it is getting in the way of people performing their civic duty. Plus I'm a geographer so I want very accurate population data across the board.

I say fill em' out.

Yeah, access to good population data is important to all social scientists (like me), not to mention that this stuff determines how district lines are drawn and how federal and state funds are allocated.

Sea Ray
03-20-2010, 11:31 AM
Not to mention that Hispanic is not a race. Aroldis Chapman is Hispanic but his race is black. Jorge Posada is Hispanic but his race is white. African American is not a race either.

Reds Nd2
03-20-2010, 11:44 AM
Are you going to be living in your current place on April 1, 2010? If so, fill your form out.

We are getting married April 16th. My things will all be moved by the end of the month. We've already begun moving some things. It just doesn't seem right to be counted in Va. when I'll be living five miles across the state line in N.C. for the next ten years or so. Another problem complicating things is the fact that I don't have a mailing address here at the apartment. I can't remember how it went the last time (I was living in the same apartment) but I'm pretty sure the census worker had to come out anyway.

westofyou
03-20-2010, 11:54 AM
Census data enables genealogy searches to be way easier, if anything think about those after you that will be wondering who the heck you are and how you affected their life.

Data is a key to understanding all processes, even life.

oneupper
03-20-2010, 07:03 PM
Not to mention that Hispanic is not a race. Aroldis Chapman is Hispanic but his race is black. Jorge Posada is Hispanic but his race is white. African American is not a race either.

The beauty of the "Hispanic" term is that it is not a color. In colonial times, people were classified in terms of their color or lineage. "Mestizo", "Zambo", "Mulato", "Salto pa'tras" "Quadroon", "Octaroon", "Pardo"...etc...etc. "Hispanic" or "Latin" does away with all that. Because if you go back far enough, everyone's Momma was black or indian. Hispanic is the IDK race.

So I guess for the government race = color. Black White Red Yellow. The Census should have given a color code guide then so we could all match ourselves up.

Sorry, but I fail to see how this particular information can serve any useful purpose.

Maybe I'm missing something.

pahster
03-20-2010, 07:23 PM
The beauty of the "Hispanic" term is that it is not a color. In colonial times, people were classified in terms of their color or lineage. "Mestizo", "Zambo", "Mulato", "Salto pa'tras" "Quadroon", "Octaroon", "Pardo"...etc...etc. "Hispanic" or "Latin" does away with all that. Because if you go back far enough, everyone's Momma was black or indian. Hispanic is the IDK race.

So I guess for the government race = color. Black White Red Yellow. The Census should have given a color code guide then so we could all match ourselves up.

Sorry, but I fail to see how this particular information can serve any useful purpose.

Maybe I'm missing something.

You don't think descriptive demographics tell us anything of value?

oneupper
03-20-2010, 07:27 PM
You don't think descriptive demographics tell us anything of value?

I don't know. If they're based on the color people think they are, I'm not sure.
Educate me.

Dom Heffner
03-20-2010, 08:21 PM
I work next door to a bail bondsman who not only refuses to fill one out, but he put a sign on his door that any census worker will be shot if on his property.

Some people are nuts about this stuff.

And why on earth would you not check which race you are? Goodness, get over yourself.

If the goverment really wanted this info for seedy purposes, they'd get it somewhere else rather than asking you for it. Just check the box and then rebolt your door and hide under your bed.

Yachtzee
03-20-2010, 10:37 PM
People who don't fill out the census form only increase the likelihood that their vote won't mean as much in national and congressional elections. When significant numbers of people in a community fail to turn in the census form, those numbers are missing when it comes to drawing congressional districts and deciding how many congresspersons a state should be alloted. I imagine there have been close situations where a state lost a congressperson (and a vote in the electoral college) because the state had a poor response rate on its census forms compared to other states. The census isn't a poll, which can use sampling to make up for inadequate data for a particular community.

smith288
03-20-2010, 10:41 PM
Filled out question #1 and put a post it note on it indicating question one was all that was required by me to answer constitutionally for proper representation. Not for street lights or better healthcare or "to get's mine" as the commercials indicated.

And geneology doesnt quite equal constitutionally given right to the govt bu cest la vie

Newport Red
03-20-2010, 10:52 PM
People who don't fill out the census form only increase the likelihood that their vote won't mean as much in national and congressional elections. When significant numbers of people in a community fail to turn in the census form, those numbers are missing when it comes to drawing congressional districts and deciding how many congresspersons a state should be alloted. I imagine there have been close situations where a state lost a congressperson (and a vote in the electoral college) because the state had a poor response rate on its census forms compared to other states. The census isn't a poll, which can use sampling to make up for inadequate data for a particular community.

Anyone who doesn't send the Census form back will be visited by a census worker multiple times.

Dom Heffner
03-20-2010, 11:09 PM
Filled out question #1 and put a post it note on it indicating question one was all that was required by me to answer constitutionally for proper representation. Not for street lights or better healthcare or "to get's mine" as the commercials indicated.

And geneology doesnt quite equal constitutionally given right to the govt bu cest la vie

You really showed them! I'll bet the government is truly sad they couldn't "get you" based on an answer from a Census form. Lord knows they couldn't just sit outside your house and figure what race you are...

I really don't mean to be a smart tail, but the paranoia lately is a little funny.

Seriously, you hear all the time about the government using Census forms to stuck it to the citizens of this country....lol...but let me guess you were fine with them listening into cell phone calls without a warrant....

GAC
03-21-2010, 08:51 AM
Has anyone ever been involved in a year-long census? We participated in one this past year for 2009. The census worker came quarterly during the year with her laptop, took about 45 minutes each times, and asked the same questions to see if there were any changes. And if you felt a particular question(s) were too personal one could simply say "no comment", which we did with questions on numerous subject matters.

RedsManRick
03-21-2010, 11:08 AM
I work next door to a bail bondsman who not only refuses to fill one out, but he put a sign on his door that any census worker will be shot if on his property.

Some people are nuts about this stuff.

And why on earth would you not check which race you are? Goodness, get over yourself.

If the goverment really wanted this info for seedy purposes, they'd get it somewhere else rather than asking you for it. Just check the box and then rebolt your door and hide under your bed.

My thoughts exactly.

GIK
03-21-2010, 11:14 AM
I filled out every question. No problems here.

RichRed
03-21-2010, 12:15 PM
I have no problem filling out the census form, but did we really need the mailing that came a few weeks earlier saying "you will be getting a census form"? Seems that one mailing would've been sufficient and saved a boatload of money.

Dom Heffner
03-21-2010, 01:12 PM
I have no problem filling out the census form, but did we really need the mailing that came a few weeks earlier saying "you will be getting a census form"? Seems that one mailing would've been sufficient and saved a boatload of money.

I'm guessing its more cost efficient sending a notice and then the form rather than just springing it on people. It's more expensive to send people out to houses that had no clue what it was.

I just filled it out and I cannot imagine how anybody would feel violated telling the government that you are a certain color and how many people live in your house. Took me less than 5 minutes.

If you want to talk about patriotism, which some love to do, then what could be more patriotic than helping the government out with harmless info?

I've been reading a book on the founding fathers and original intent, and I tell you, most people on here screaming about their "Constitutional rights" would have voted the darn thing down back in the day.

It's ironic that people who hate the federal government hide behind the very document that created it- and over the silliest things.

Dom Heffner
03-21-2010, 01:21 PM
Sorry, but I fail to see how this particular information can serve any useful purpose.

Maybe I'm missing something.


So you don't think it's important to know the makeup of the population of our country?

You just think we should say we have 380 million people here and we have no idea how it's made up because some anti-government folks are too afraid to admit what color they are?

Yachtzee
03-21-2010, 01:43 PM
I find it odd that some folks out there try to claim some constitutional right not to answer for the Census, when it is the Census itself that is required by the constitution. It is supposedly required by law that one fill out all 10 questions on the Census Form and that failure to do so may result not only in a Census worker showing up at your door, but possibly fines for failure to cooperate with the Census. Many of the 10 questions have been the same since the very first census.

joshnky
03-21-2010, 02:14 PM
This is the first time I've had to fill out the census form and don't understand what the big deal is. It took less than five minutes to fill out name, age, and race for the three members of my household. And as an engineer by trade, I can see how this data (and more) would be very valuable to those we've charged to represent us.

pahster
03-21-2010, 03:04 PM
I don't know. If they're based on the color people think they are, I'm not sure.
Educate me.

The behavior of people is systematically shaped by the groups of which they are members (in this case we're talking about racial or ethnic groups, but we could also talk about religious affiliation, partisanship, socioeconomic status, level of education, etc.). I'm simplifying, but people who are members of one group react differently on average than do people who are members of a different group to various political and social phenomena. If you think representation is important, it's a good idea for a member of Congress to know what their district looks like. If you think majority-minority districts are a good thing, then the questions about race are essential.

RedsManRick
03-21-2010, 05:13 PM
I have no problem filling out the census form, but did we really need the mailing that came a few weeks earlier saying "you will be getting a census form"? Seems that one mailing would've been sufficient and saved a boatload of money.

Actually, you'd be shocked on how much those early mailings increase response rates. Consider the cost of sending that mailing versus paying people to make calls or personal visits and the math shows that's one of the most cost effective ways to boost response.

WMR
03-21-2010, 05:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjGpcEA-FyE

Sea Ray
03-21-2010, 06:26 PM
I filled out every question. No problems here.

I don't understand what some people are afraid of if they do answer all the questions.

muddie
03-21-2010, 06:54 PM
The constitution only requires that respondents report the number of residents in a household. That is all I will answer for this year and every other year. There is no, none, ground for asking for any iformation above and beyond this. It is not a matter of being "afraid" to answer the questions, its a matter of what the constitution intended. The only, and I mean only, reason for the census is to determine how many US house members are allocated to each state. The purpose of the census is equal representation based on population. It has nothing whatsoever to do with race or sex. This part of the inquiry is unconstitutional, period.

westofyou
03-21-2010, 08:30 PM
Boogie Boogie

RBA
03-21-2010, 09:22 PM
What if I die before April, 1, 2010? Would that mean I lied to to government?

KronoRed
03-21-2010, 09:30 PM
Boogie Boogie

Dangit, I had a boogie man joke all ready :(

reds1869
03-21-2010, 09:32 PM
The constitution only requires that respondents report the number of residents in a household. That is all I will answer for this year and every other year. There is no, none, ground for asking for any iformation above and beyond this. It is not a matter of being "afraid" to answer the questions, its a matter of what the constitution intended. The only, and I mean only, reason for the census is to determine how many US house members are allocated to each state. The purpose of the census is equal representation based on population. It has nothing whatsoever to do with race or sex. This part of the inquiry is unconstitutional, period.

Article 1 Section 2:

[An] Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

Dom Heffner
03-21-2010, 09:41 PM
Article 1 Section 2:

[An] Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

But, hey, why let facts get in the way of a good anti-government protest?

Redsfaithful
03-21-2010, 09:49 PM
I think if you don't fill out a census completely you should be fined. Heftily.

We're trying to have a society here.

Tony Cloninger
03-21-2010, 09:56 PM
What about the box for Eye-talians....like me? No box for that?

My Mother is half French as well, near the Swiss border her father was born.......no box for the Frenchies?

:D

Yachtzee
03-21-2010, 10:48 PM
But, hey, why let facts get in the way of a good anti-government protest?

Amazing when someone claims something is or isn't constitutional when it appears they haven't actually read the Constitution.

redsmetz
03-21-2010, 10:59 PM
Census data enables genealogy searches to be way easier, if anything think about those after you that will be wondering who the heck you are and how you affected their life.

Data is a key to understanding all processes, even life.

I have to agree. I've recently added many lines to my family through census records, even found out my grandma who always was very proper "Margaret" was listed as "Maggie" in the 1900. And seeing who their neighbors were out in Delhi where they lived then, etc.

There are current reasons to fill out the census such as federal funding distributions and representation in Congress. Data given now is not available as public records for 70 years. I'm just now able to see census records from the 1930 census with my parents, and should have access to the 1940 records sometime in the near future. This is the historical record and some day your descendants will be glad to have the data.

pahster
03-21-2010, 11:17 PM
Article 1 Section 2:

[An] Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

Quiet, you.

Joseph
03-21-2010, 11:30 PM
Paranoia, its almost as amusing as The Hangover.

wolfboy
03-22-2010, 12:02 AM
Amazing when someone claims something is or isn't constitutional when it appears they haven't actually read the Constitution.

Read, schmead. Where's the fun in that?

It's a free country. Constitution says I can do what I want. :D

GIDP
03-22-2010, 12:47 AM
I plead the fif

gilpdawg
03-22-2010, 03:55 AM
I was trying to find a clip of Gary Burbank's "Senseless Survey" to post, but I couldn't find one.

GAC
03-22-2010, 05:55 AM
Don't understand why some get so bent out of shape about the Census, and say some of the questions may be an invasion of privacy? Don't they realize the government already has 10x the personal info on you then what is on that survey?

I got the 1-800 number for the Census. Have to call them today. It seems ours was thrown out in the trash by the oldest boy as junk mail. :lol:

Trace's Daddy
03-22-2010, 08:01 AM
The more that race is recognized on government forms and other places, the more the racism ball keeps rolling.

Trace's Daddy
03-22-2010, 08:01 AM
Don't understand why some get so bent out of shape about the Census, and say some of the questions may be an invasion of privacy? Don't they realize the government already has 10x the personal info on you then what is on that survey?

I got the 1-800 number for the Census. Have to call them today. It seems ours was thrown out in the trash by the oldest boy as junk mail. :lol:

Good boy hahaa

pahster
03-22-2010, 08:47 AM
The more that race is recognized on government forms and other places, the more the racism ball keeps rolling.

Race is a social construct. It exists with or without government recognition.

RichRed
03-22-2010, 10:34 AM
Actually, you'd be shocked on how much those early mailings increase response rates. Consider the cost of sending that mailing versus paying people to make calls or personal visits and the math shows that's one of the most cost effective ways to boost response.

Fair enough (to you and Dom, as well). For the record, it would never occur to me NOT to fill it out. I'll spend my paranoia elsewhere.

Roy Tucker
03-22-2010, 11:09 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_HjLwrH0oWJI/Rv_xY5e_p_I/AAAAAAAAAI8/xNt5ytTkhcw/s400/stick+it+to+the+man.jpg

Eric_the_Red
03-22-2010, 11:10 AM
Is there a date when we should receive the forms? I got the initial letter, but no forms yet.

TylerScottDavis
03-22-2010, 01:15 PM
Article 1 Section 2:

[An] Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

Merriam-Webster: Enumerate - To determine the number of.

I don't care either way, I filled mine out completely and sent it in already, but I have to play along here.

It seems they have the power to determine the number of people in such manner as they shall by Law direct, but I don't see a provision for determining the color or people. :cool:

pahster
03-22-2010, 01:18 PM
Merriam-Webster: Enumerate - To determine the number of.

I don't care either way, I filled mine out completely and sent it in already, but I have to play along here.

It seems they have the power to determine the number of people in such manner as they shall by Law direct, but I don't see a provision for determining the color or people. :cool:

Counting the number of people of a given racial or ethnic group...

westofyou
03-22-2010, 01:24 PM
Merriam-Webster: Enumerate - To determine the number of.

I don't care either way, I filled mine out completely and sent it in already, but I have to play along here.

It seems they have the power to determine the number of people in such manner as they shall by Law direct, but I don't see a provision for determining the color or people. :cool:

Problem is the darn thing was written when everyone was a white male and owned land too.

Everyone else didn't count.

Then.

Eric_the_Red
03-22-2010, 02:31 PM
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/03/census-nonsense/

TylerScottDavis
03-22-2010, 03:58 PM
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/03/census-nonsense/

Well, that clears that up:clap:

That website sure makes them seem awful smug about it though. If I had read that first it would have made me NOT want to reply.

I'd love to know what they do to people who refuse to reply or answer the door for census officials or pay the subsequent fines. Are they really going to haul people off to prison over this?

Yachtzee
03-22-2010, 04:35 PM
Problem is the darn thing was written when everyone was a white male and owned land too.

Everyone else didn't count.

Then.

Actually, they did count. It's just that some of them only counted as 3/5 of a person.

TRF
03-22-2010, 05:08 PM
I'm half irish, half puerto rican

and 100% american baby.

The law says i fill it out, so i fill it out. I'm more amazed that people will buy ANYTHING over the internet.

Honestly, they already know who you are. Drivers license, SSN, W2 and W4 forms, tax returns, and on and on ad nauseum. It just the official counting of information they already have. I do wonder why it isn't online though.

Puffy
03-22-2010, 05:19 PM
Not only have I not received a census but I did not receive any pre-form telling me to expect one.

Razor Shines
03-22-2010, 05:28 PM
Not only have I not received a census but I did not receive any pre-form telling me to expect one.

Stop living on the beach, you bum.

Ltlabner
03-22-2010, 05:31 PM
I consider the Federal government as nearly useless and a thorn in the side of our daily living. State and Locals don't thrill me much either.

That said, I don't get the paranoia about this. A couple of names and the people in your house...bing, bam, boom...its done. If someone had to come inside your home and ask you all sorts of questions that be a different story.

This....its info they have from other sources and of no particular relevance to be used in any nefarious acts.

KronoRed
03-22-2010, 05:57 PM
Not only have I not received a census but I did not receive any pre-form telling me to expect one.

They already know all about you Puffy :D

ochre
03-22-2010, 06:15 PM
Actually, they did count. It's just that some of them only counted as 3/5 of a vote for their owner.
fixed

Puffy
03-22-2010, 06:44 PM
They already know all about you Puffy :D

Could be.......

Deepred05
03-22-2010, 07:21 PM
Cant they just get the same info from the IRS?

Sea Ray
03-22-2010, 08:18 PM
Cant they just get the same info from the IRS?

Not if you don't pay taxes

Rojo
03-22-2010, 08:59 PM
nm

texasdave
03-22-2010, 09:08 PM
The behavior of people is systematically shaped by the groups of which they are members (in this case we're talking about racial or ethnic groups, but we could also talk about religious affiliation, partisanship, socioeconomic status, level of education, etc.). I'm simplifying, but people who are members of one group react differently on average than do people who are members of a different group to various political and social phenomena. If you think representation is important, it's a good idea for a member of Congress to know what their district looks like. If you think majority-minority districts are a good thing, then the questions about race are essential.

Do you honestly think that a person running for election in a district and courting the votes of the population of that particular district does not have a pretty firm grasp of the makeup of that district?

pahster
03-22-2010, 09:09 PM
Do you honestly think that a person running for election in a district and courting the votes of the population of that particular district does not have a pretty firm grasp of the makeup of that district?

Of course they do, they have access to Census data.

texasdave
03-22-2010, 09:13 PM
Of course they do, they have access to Census data.

I am fairly certain that people running for election in a particular district already know beforehand a lot more about the makeup of that district than can be gleaned from census data.

pahster
03-22-2010, 09:21 PM
I am fairly certain that people running for election in a particular district already know beforehand a lot more about the makeup of that district than can be gleaned from census data.

Of course. The Census is a starting point. That said, it's how districts are designed. Incumbents often have a lot of say in the makeup of their districts come redistricting time.

Rojo
03-23-2010, 02:45 PM
When I've worked for campaigns we had rosters with names, addresses and political party taken for the county registrar.

pahster
03-23-2010, 08:13 PM
When I've worked for campaigns we had rosters with names, addresses and political party taken for the county registrar.

That information is only available in some states.

I'm curious: did you have access to data on religion, education, income, and race that didn't come from a publicly available source? I suspect you probably had at least some.

Rojo
03-23-2010, 08:57 PM
That information is only available in some states.

I'm curious: did you have access to data on religion, education, income, and race that didn't come from a publicly available source? I suspect you probably had at least some.

Not that I recall. I've canvassed in San Francisco and Lodi, CA.

westofyou
03-23-2010, 09:07 PM
Not that I recall. I've canvassed in San Francisco and Lodi, CA.

Two very different places.

RedsManRick
03-23-2010, 10:09 PM
The more that race is recognized on government forms and other places, the more the racism ball keeps rolling.

I agree with this, but I don't think the Census is the place to stop talking about it. The big problem with the race issue was and continues to be that "race" is a construction made of different, but related things:

1) Ethnicity/Culture -- groups of people have shared histories and values. Communities tend to form around individual cultures and thus the problems of those communities become somewhat correlated to the culture. There is some value in understanding this.

2) Appearance -- the ascription of #1 to people based on their skin color. Because cultures have shared histories, they have similar physical appearance. But because culture is ephemeral, physical appearance is a quick shorthand.

Obviously there is a lot of overlap here, but we see evidence of this tension everywhere as our society has integrated. There was a time when "white" wasn't considered a race. There were Germans, Italians, French, etc. Of course, now they're so intermixed in the US now that those cultural heritages are no longer significant at the societal level. (clearly those subcultures still exist, but there aren't structural big-scale issues

The same can be said about black, brown, yellow-skinned people. (if you'll forgive the crassness...) The groupings by color are artificial and overly simplistic. But at the same time, we don't have a better, cleaner, way to discuss the cultural backgrounds. If you subdivide too much, you lose some of the value than can come from the categorization.

At the end of the day, it's just going to be a function of time. Eventually, we're all going to be some shade of brown and we can just focus on the cultural stuff. Until then, we're going to have to deal with the crude short-cut of skin color.

Newport Red
03-24-2010, 12:42 PM
I got out of the bunker long enough to fill it out. Pretty innocuous.

Chip R
03-24-2010, 01:19 PM
I got out of the bunker long enough to fill it out. Pretty innocuous.

Me too. Took me 5 minutes tops.

GAC
03-26-2010, 05:49 AM
I got a post card in the mail Wednesday from the U.S. Dept of Commerce saying that I should have received their Census survery several days ago, and reminding me that my response is REQUIRED BY LAW. I called the 866 number they gave if I had any questions, and after playing phone tag with their automated system for about 15 minutes, and screaming into the phone I want to SPEAK WITH A REPRESENTATIVE!, I finally got to talk to someone. I told them our Census got inadvertently thrown away and I wanted a replacement sent to me. He asked for my personal ID #. What's that? He said it's on the corner of the letter sent out. Hey guy, Are you listening? The letter got thrown away. Well, without that I.D. # we can't send you a replacement. He then said that replacement letters will be sent out on April 1st thru the 3rd. I thought you couldn't send me one without that personal I.D.#? So how does that work? He wasn't sure; but he said the system will send replacements out to everyone who hasn't responded. And if I don't get mine by April 12th to call back and they'll do it over the phone. Can't we do that now? They aren't set up to do that yet.

Typical government. As Seinfeld once said... "And you want to be my latex salesman."

RBA
03-26-2010, 04:31 PM
15 minutes to get someone on the phone? That sounds really good. Have you ever called tech support for a private company? Dell?, HP? When my internet goes out, I can't get ahold of Time Warner. But I would say 15 minutes is unacceptable, government or private.

GAC
03-26-2010, 04:45 PM
I agree with you when it comes to tech support. Been there, done that. And it would be nice if they could speak some semblance of English too. But 15 minutes with a phone glued to your ear, and waiting to talk to someone, anyone, is still a very lonnnnnng time.

If you don't think so, then I'll have you give me a call and I'll put you on hold for 15 minutes. ;)

Rojo
03-26-2010, 09:03 PM
Two very different places.

You got that right. Fortunately, I didn't get stuck in Lodi.

It was 2006 and I got my first up-close look at a McMansion. I was an urban rube.

Slyder
03-26-2010, 09:30 PM
I received mine about a week ago. For a minute I thought about making myself into a super minority. Something like a black transgendered pagan with a handicap. Instead I just tossed it aside into a pile of junk mail.

Just so you know if you don't fill these out they will send someone to your house to make sure you complete it. I worked last spring/summer around here identifying all the houses around my area. So if you don't want to put up with people knocking on the door asking to fill it out go ahead and answer the questions and mail it back.

And if the census worker feels threatened they can call the sheriff or local law enforcement.

RFS62
03-26-2010, 09:59 PM
I'm not sure what the harm is to those who don't want to fill it out.

Is it a way to say "don't marginalize me"? Are you, as Roy suggested, looking for a way to stick it to the man?

Maybe people who feel as if they've been "pigeonholed" throughout their lives are looking for a way to say "enough", I'm just not sure.

There are plenty of things the government does that make me much crazier than filling out this simple form.

I guess I just don't get the push-back.

redsmetz
03-27-2010, 01:49 PM
That information is only available in some states.

I'm curious: did you have access to data on religion, education, income, and race that didn't come from a publicly available source? I suspect you probably had at least some.

The data used by campaigns is derived from voting. From a standpoint of determining party affiliation, the info comes from primary voting. In my brother's campaign, we were looking for "strong Dems" or "swing". Strong Dems were folks who regularly voted in the Democratic primary over whatever period we were choosing. Swing were folks who either didn't declare for either party (voting "issues only") or sometimes voted in one or another party primary. We also based our campaigning in some areas as to where certain candidates with good crossover voting (in our case, Todd Portune & David Pepper). But we never had access to census data. All of our data was determined through Board of Election info.

pahster
03-27-2010, 02:21 PM
The data used by campaigns is derived from voting. From a standpoint of determining party affiliation, the info comes from primary voting. In my brother's campaign, we were looking for "strong Dems" or "swing". Strong Dems were folks who regularly voted in the Democratic primary over whatever period we were choosing. Swing were folks who either didn't declare for either party (voting "issues only") or sometimes voted in one or another party primary. We also based our campaigning in some areas as to where certain candidates with good crossover voting (in our case, Todd Portune & David Pepper). But we never had access to census data. All of our data was determined through Board of Election info.

Maybe you didn't make use of it, but you certainly did have access to Census data. It's all online (unless this campaign was a long time ago, in which case you'd need to go to the library to see it). Race is an important determinant of vote choice, so ignoring available information about the makeup of the people in your district/municipality/state/whatever is not a good idea.

But you're right about voter rolls; candidates use them, at least in states that make them public. That's far from all they use, though. There are also mailing lists, donor rolls, private survey data, public survey data, data collected from focus groups, not to mention the federal and state (if the state a campaign is in has one) censuses.

Dom Heffner
03-27-2010, 03:34 PM
I got a post card in the mail Wednesday from the U.S. Dept of Commerce saying that I should have received their Census survery several days ago, and reminding me that my response is REQUIRED BY LAW. I called the 866 number they gave if I had any questions, and after playing phone tag with their automated system for about 15 minutes, and screaming into the phone I want to SPEAK WITH A REPRESENTATIVE!, I finally got to talk to someone. I told them our Census got inadvertently thrown away and I wanted a replacement sent to me. He asked for my personal ID #. What's that? He said it's on the corner of the letter sent out. Hey guy, Are you listening? The letter got thrown away. Well, without that I.D. # we can't send you a replacement. He then said that replacement letters will be sent out on April 1st thru the 3rd. I thought you couldn't send me one without that personal I.D.#? So how does that work? He wasn't sure; but he said the system will send replacements out to everyone who hasn't responded. And if I don't get mine by April 12th to call back and they'll do it over the phone. Can't we do that now? They aren't set up to do that yet.

Typical government. As Seinfeld once said... "And you want to be my latex salesman."

Yeah, well they weren't the ones who threw it away...

I joke witchyou...:)

TheNext44
03-28-2010, 04:27 AM
I've never really been good with numbers...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XtuPvwBa2U

and a better resolution version on HULU

How to Take A Census (http://www.hulu.com/watch/4165/saturday-night-live-census-taker)

Rojo
03-29-2010, 02:33 PM
Race is an important determinant of vote choice, so ignoring available information about the makeup of the people in your district/municipality/state/whatever is not a good idea.

Yes and no. Most campaigns are surprisingly fly-by-the-seat-of-the-pants. Looking at race during a GOTV drive on election day wouldn't be the best use of time unless you had an unusually high volunteer turnout. And if you did, then you're probably going to win in a route.

pahster
03-29-2010, 02:53 PM
Yes and no. Most campaigns are surprisingly fly-by-the-seat-of-the-pants. Looking at race during a GOTV drive on election day wouldn't be the best use of time unless you had an unusually high volunteer turnout. And if you did, then you're probably going to win in a route.

You wouldn't look at it on the day of the election, you'd know it beforehand and send canvassers to the appropriate locations. Gotta send more canvassers to African American neighborhoods than to white neighborhood because African Americans are less likely to turn out.

LoganBuck
03-29-2010, 03:17 PM
You wouldn't look at it on the day of the election, you'd know it beforehand and send canvassers to the appropriate locations. Gotta send more canvassers to African American neighborhoods than to white neighborhood because African Americans are less likely to turn out.

This comment irks me. If you don't know when election day is, or care enough to be informed enough on the issues, to have a care to vote, why do people need to be brow beaten to the polls? Do we really want people who aren't aware of when election day is or what the issues are, voting? Regardless of color.

Falls City Beer
03-29-2010, 03:22 PM
This comment irks me. If you don't know when election day is, or care enough to be informed enough on the issues, to have a care to vote, why do people need to be brow beaten to the polls? Do we really want people who aren't aware of when election day is or what the issues are, voting? Regardless of color.

Lot of elderly and poor are without cars. For one. Now, of course, quite a bit of the time polling places are set up in retirement homes and senior community centers for this very reason. But often it's not a question of the spirit being willing, but the flesh being weak. I'm not sure one should assume they're being "browbeaten" to the polls.

15fan
03-29-2010, 03:33 PM
This comment irks me. If you don't know when election day is, or care enough to be informed enough on the issues, to have a care to vote, why do people need to be brow beaten to the polls? Do we really want people who aren't aware of when election day is or what the issues are, voting? Regardless of color.

One answer is: It depends on which party you prefer.

Generally, higher voter turnout favors Democrats and lower voter turnout favors Republicans.

Another answer is: Yes.

The right to cast a ballot is a right that hundreds of millions of people around the world don't have. It's a right that scores of our predecessors fought and died for. IMO, it is a disservice to those people when someone flushes the opportunity to cast a ballot.

LoganBuck
03-29-2010, 03:48 PM
Lot of elderly and poor are without cars. For one. Now, of course, quite a bit of the time polling places are set up in retirement homes and senior community centers for this very reason. But often it's not a question of the spirit being willing, but the flesh being weak. I'm not sure one should assume they're being "browbeaten" to the polls.

So what were all these people doing during the month before election day when all the absentee voter information was sent out? When information was in the newspaper, on TV, the radio, the internet, direct mailings, etc, etc.

It is easier to vote now than ever. I used the word "browbeaten" because I get the idea it is an effort to get the unmotivated, or uninformed to the polls. I want people who care to vote. There was a poll out last week that only 42% of Americans surveyed even claimed to know who Nancy Pelosi was. The remaining 58% don't know who is third in line to be President of the United States. Also big turnouts tend to come for Presidential elections. Most people have an opinion on that. Fine, but at the same time these people are filling out entire ballots for candidates, and issues of which they know nothing about at the Local, State, and National level. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Loganbuck gets off his soapbox. Saves the rest for the peanut gallery.

LoganBuck
03-29-2010, 03:51 PM
One answer is: It depends on which party you prefer.

Generally, higher voter turnout favors Democrats and lower voter turnout favors Republicans.

Another answer is: Yes.

The right to cast a ballot is a right that hundreds of millions of people around the world don't have. It's a right that scores of our predecessors fought and died for. IMO, it is a disservice to those people when someone flushes the opportunity to cast a ballot.

Don't care what party someone is affiliated with, be an informed voter, because the responsibility of pulling the handle or filling in that oval, is what people fought and died for. Not just the right to do it.

Falls City Beer
03-29-2010, 03:54 PM
So what were all these people doing during the month before election day when all the absentee voter information was sent out? When information was in the newspaper, on TV, the radio, the internet, direct mailings, etc, etc.

It is easier to vote now than ever. I used the word "browbeaten" because I get the idea it is an effort to get the unmotivated, or uninformed to the polls. I want people who care to vote. There was a poll out last week that only 42% of Americans surveyed even claimed to know who Nancy Pelosi was. The remaining 58% don't know who is third in line to be President of the United States. Also big turnouts tend to come for Presidential elections. Most people have an opinion on that. Fine, but at the same time these people are filling out entire ballots for candidates, and issues of which they know nothing about at the Local, State, and National level. Ignorance is not an excuse.

Loganbuck gets off his soapbox. Saves the rest for the peanut gallery.


At some point on the wisdom spectrum, we're all ignorant. That's not a criticism, it's just to say, even "feebleminded" Americans get to roll out of bed as voting Americans.

Roy Tucker
03-29-2010, 04:00 PM
Time Magazines' 10 Questions for Census Chief Robert Groves...

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1975314,00.html

Some things I didn know about the race questions, privacy, etc.

TheNext44
03-29-2010, 04:11 PM
This comment irks me. If you don't know when election day is, or care enough to be informed enough on the issues, to have a care to vote, why do people need to be brow beaten to the polls? Do we really want people who aren't aware of when election day is or what the issues are, voting? Regardless of color.

I worked in the inner city in Saint Louis for years. The reason I heard most often as to why Blacks didn't vote was that they felt it did them no good. Politicians never listened to them, or cared about their issues, no matter who they voted for. In fact, it seemed the more politically informed the people I worked with were, the less likely they were to vote.

This is why politicians work harder to get the Black vote, they have to convince them that they care.


BTW, just an interesting note on the subject:

In Australia, voting is mandatory. You get fined around $50 per election if you don't vote.

pahster
03-29-2010, 04:55 PM
This comment irks me. If you don't know when election day is, or care enough to be informed enough on the issues, to have a care to vote, why do people need to be brow beaten to the polls? Do we really want people who aren't aware of when election day is or what the issues are, voting? Regardless of color.

Non-voters aren't very different than voters on average.


I worked in the inner city in Saint Louis for years. The reason I heard most often as to why Blacks didn't vote was that they felt it did them no good. Politicians never listened to them, or cared about their issues, no matter who they voted for. In fact, it seemed the more politically informed the people I worked with were, the less likely they were to vote.

This is why politicians work harder to get the Black vote, they have to convince them that they care.


BTW, just an interesting note on the subject:

In Australia, voting is mandatory. You get fined around $50 per election if you don't vote.

Yeah, efficacy is a big problem among African Americans.

Rojo
03-29-2010, 05:26 PM
You wouldn't look at it on the day of the election, you'd know it beforehand and send canvassers to the appropriate locations. Gotta send more canvassers to African American neighborhoods than to white neighborhood because African Americans are less likely to turn out.

Yeah but my point is that many elections just aren't that fast-forward.

pahster
03-29-2010, 06:26 PM
Yeah but my point is that many elections just aren't that fast-forward.

That depends on the office a candidate is running for. School board? They probably don't know anything. State representative? They probably pay attention. House or Senate election? They definitely pay attention.

savafan
03-29-2010, 09:22 PM
I was disappointed that mulato wasn't an option for race. I'm white, my girlfriend is black, our son is... no option given

Sea Ray
03-29-2010, 10:10 PM
I was disappointed that mulato wasn't an option for race. I'm white, my girlfriend is black, our son is... no option given

Your future Mrs Savafan avatar wasn't black...or was the above a hypothetical?

Was "mixed" a choice on the Census?

savafan
03-29-2010, 10:46 PM
Your future Mrs Savafan avatar wasn't black...or was the above a hypothetical?

Was "mixed" a choice on the Census?

Future Mrs. Savafan ran off with a 17 year old...

Yeah.

I'm back with the mother of my son now, and I'm actually pretty happy.

I didn't see mixed as one of the options on the form.

savafan
03-29-2010, 10:53 PM
For the record, this is my son's mother Nena. We've recently gotten back together since Future Mrs. Savafan bolted back in November, 3 weeks before we were to be married. It's such a twisted story, but it's my life.

pahster
03-30-2010, 12:27 AM
I didn't see mixed as one of the options on the form.

You can check more than one box.

Sea Ray
03-30-2010, 12:39 AM
Future Mrs. Savafan ran off with a 17 year old...

Yeah.

I'm back with the mother of my son now, and I'm actually pretty happy.

I didn't see mixed as one of the options on the form.

For the record, this is my son's mother Nena. We've recently gotten back together since Future Mrs. Savafan bolted back in November, 3 weeks before we were to be married. It's such a twisted story, but it's my life.


That future Ms. Savafan looked about 17 herself...:D

So now you're with your son's mother...After all the issues you had with her? As I recall they involved visitation, drugs & alcohol and other things including not telling you about the pregnancy. I missed your getting back together with her. I had followed your story up until that point. Your life makes mine seem so boring.


Thanks for the update...now back to our regularly scheduled program...

savafan
03-30-2010, 12:41 AM
You can check more than one box.

Maybe I should have read the directions.

savafan
03-30-2010, 12:45 AM
So now you're with your son's mother...After all the issues you had with her? As I recall they involved visitation, drugs & alcohol and other things including not telling you about the pregnancy. I missed your getting back together with her. I had followed your story up until that point. Your life makes mine seem so boring.


Thanks for the update...now back to our regularly scheduled program...

I could write a book about this, problem is, no one would believe it. The people closest to me lied to me and manipulated me, I allowed myself to be blinded to the truth, because I didn't want to see it, but in the end, I finally accepted who had been there for me all along, and who hadn't.

Sea Ray
03-30-2010, 12:48 AM
I could write a book about this, problem is, no one would believe it. The people closest to me lied to me and manipulated me, I allowed myself to be blinded to the truth, because I didn't want to see it, but in the end, I finally accepted who had been there for me all along, and who hadn't.

Glad things have stabilized for you.

You're one of the good guys and I wish you the best. :beerme:

savafan
03-30-2010, 12:51 AM
Glad things have stabilized for you.

You're one of the good guys and I wish you the best. :beerme:

Thank you, and my son deserves the best too, and he'll finally get that. :)

Dom Heffner
03-30-2010, 03:32 AM
Glad you posted her pic, sava, as I was starting along the following line of reasoning: sava puts the picture of his woman as his avatar, sava is now with someone who is black...

savafan
03-30-2010, 01:29 PM
Glad you posted her pic, sava, as I was starting along the following line of reasoning: sava puts the picture of his woman as his avatar, sava is now with someone who is black...

I follow the money. ;)

fearofpopvol1
04-03-2010, 02:00 AM
What annoys the living daylights out of me is all the money spent on advertising. Did the census really need to buy an ad during the Superbowl? And take out loads of TV ads during high profile events (like the Grammy's, the NCAA tourney etc). That's a lot of taxpayer money right there. And I keep seeing ads everywhere else on TV, on the web, in newspapers...it's a LOT of ad dollars. I get it already. I got the form in the mail. I filled it out.

I have no beef with filling out the census or returning it. Seriously, it takes 5 minutes to fill the thing out and the envelope has postage already paid.

Reds Nd2
04-04-2010, 02:28 AM
What annoys the living daylights out of me is all the money spent on advertising...

...it's a LOT of ad dollars. I get it already. I got the form in the mail. I filled it out.

Don't forget all the money they spent on sending people out to identify all the houses/dwellings/domiciles/and bunkers last year. They know where we are and they still can't get Census forms to us. But what annoys the living daylights out of me is, in the 21st century, the government seems content in enumerating people likes it's 1790. Make filling out the Census available online or, at the very, least give us the option of printing the form from their .gov website. That way we could avoid the added expense to the tax paying public of additional mailings (We didn't get it the first time, what makes you think we will this time?) and having them actually send out someone to annoy us with their questions. We could use the postal rates of another Constitutional right available in 1790 to send it back in. Oh wait....