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Brutus
03-22-2010, 05:39 PM
I've been noticing that Jonny Gomes, once again, is tearing up spring training. Any idea who goes into the season as the starter or are they going to likely platoon?

Obviously defense is playing a part, which would favor Dickerson, but it's at least encouraging that Gomes is following up last year's campaign with another solid spring showing.

My estimation is that Gomes will start but will sit only against some righties.

dougdirt
03-22-2010, 05:48 PM
I think a platoon works best. Gomes is still showing no patience at all, but is hitting the ball a mile, often.

edabbs44
03-22-2010, 06:10 PM
I've been noticing that Jonny Gomes, once again, is tearing up spring training. Any idea who goes into the season as the starter or are they going to likely platoon?

Obviously defense is playing a part, which would favor Dickerson, but it's at least encouraging that Gomes is following up last year's campaign with another solid spring showing.

My estimation is that Gomes will start but will sit only against some righties.
I like your estimatio, but he needs to play versus most righties. Let the Mohawk hit himself out of the lineup.

RedsManRick
03-22-2010, 06:21 PM
Platoon, if not just Dickerson. As good as Gomes hit last year, he gave a ton of it back with his defense. Giving him more PA versus righties won't help. His value comes almost entirely from his ability to destroy the ball every 20 PA. I'd rather have Gomes available off the bench. Furthermore, I'd like to know what role Dickerson can play on this team in the future. We know what Gomes is; I'd like to give Dickerson more time to show what he can do.

mth123
03-22-2010, 06:38 PM
I've been noticing that Jonny Gomes, once again, is tearing up spring training. Any idea who goes into the season as the starter or are they going to likely platoon?

Obviously defense is playing a part, which would favor Dickerson, but it's at least encouraging that Gomes is following up last year's campaign with another solid spring showing.

My estimation is that Gomes will start but will sit only against some righties.

Agree with this.

11larkin11
03-22-2010, 06:51 PM
Agree with this.

I think Gomes helps the whole offense, as he's an RBI man. I think the defense is good enought to where we need pure offense in left. But I would be okay with a platoon.

Joseph
03-22-2010, 07:30 PM
Gomes.

A hundred times Gomes.

flyer85
03-22-2010, 07:35 PM
platoon

Homer Bailey
03-22-2010, 08:23 PM
Gomes 40 % against righties, and 100% against lefties.

mth123
03-22-2010, 09:11 PM
Gomes 40 % against righties, and 100% against lefties.

More like 75% against Righties unless he just doesn't hit.

edabbs44
03-22-2010, 09:18 PM
More like 75% against Righties unless he just doesn't hit.

Agreed.

Spring~Fields
03-22-2010, 10:10 PM
I think this is covered under managerial patterns and prerogatives. No, I am not knocking the manager. I just think that he will platoon in LF and CF quite a bit. How much I donít know.

As a fan I want one of them to win the jobs and to perform so well that no one can take it away. I donít care who wins it. Just perform well. In my opinion that outfield has to produce on offense and defense if any of our optimism has a chance to come to fruition.

We pretty much know what we will get from the infield players on offense and defense, we need some really pleasant surprises from the outfield players.

Tommyjohn25
03-22-2010, 10:17 PM
Gomes.

A hundred times Gomes.

This.

Ron Madden
03-23-2010, 03:24 AM
platoon

I second this motion.

Mario-Rijo
03-23-2010, 06:37 AM
I still believe Dickerson should be the CF at least in a platoon to some extent I am just not all that comfortable with Stubbs yet. I would be ok with Dusty allowing Stubbs to handle CF by himself as long as the leash isn't long we can't afford 2 or more months of losing by a run or 2 because Stubbs isn't getting on base at the top of the lineup. Of course Dusty could help that by moving Drew down in the lineup if he shows he can't handle it.

How that all plays out would help me determine how LF works. And if Stubbs is the fulltime CF then I would go with a straight platoon in LF. If it's not a straight platoon Gomes should at most get to only hit vs. select RHP's. Ones that tend to rely on their fastballs/change-ups/mediocre at best breaking stuff far more than anything else, he should never see any RHP with nasty breaking stuff. I think Dickerson should get as many PA's as possible because he is the one guy who can be a consistent adequate or better top of the lineup option right away.

Topcat
03-23-2010, 07:48 AM
Platoon.

nate
03-23-2010, 07:52 AM
Dickerson the majority of the time vs. RHP.

bucksfan2
03-23-2010, 08:50 AM
Taken from another forum, but I agree with this sentiment.


Between the three outfield spots there are 162 starts, which equate to appx 700 PA per spot. You have a RH leftfielder and centerfielder. Dickerson should get 95 starts in leftfield and another 25-30 in center, which is appx. 500 PA. That's plenty of work.

I think Gomes offers something that Dickerson doesn't, legit pop. The Reds are in a situation in which they are going to need offense. Gomes offers that more than Dickerson.

But lets not forget that injuries happen. Players will miss time and need days off. Having Dickerson as an insurance policy while also getting close to 500 AB's isn't such a bad thing.

OnBaseMachine
03-23-2010, 11:41 AM
Dickerson the majority of the time vs. RHP.

Agreed.

Brutus
03-23-2010, 01:58 PM
More like 75% against Righties unless he just doesn't hit.

This would be the split I would tend to lean toward myself. At very least, maybe a 50/50 split against RHP.

I will say though: looking at Gomes last year, he had almost a win above replacement in 300 PA, defense included, - which in a near full season is almost two wins above average. That's solid.

Though if people are to believe UZR (enter at your own risk), Chris Dickerson, defense added in, had 1.8 wins above replacement in nearly the same amount of plate appearances.

Thought that was interesting. If Gomes can pick up where he left off last season, I would still tend to give him a simple majority of the plate appearances against righties and all the PA's against lefties. But I suppose a good case can be made for both.

MississippiRed
03-23-2010, 02:15 PM
Having Dickerson as an insurance policy while also getting close to 500 AB's isn't such a bad thing.

What would make this even better would be if Dusty made two lineup rules:
1. Gomes bats 4th whenever he plays.
2. Dickerson leads off whenever he plays. (Stubbs moves to 7th if he and Dickerson play at the same time.)

TheNext44
03-23-2010, 02:22 PM
I'm of a very different opinion on Gomes.

I want Balantien as the LF. And I want Dickerson as the 4th OF, who gets around 400-500 PA's filing in for each position in the outfield.

Sure, Gomes has hit a bunch of HR's. But this is in Az, where the balls fly out and the air is too dry for pitchers to get good grips on their curveballs. Gomes is a fastball hitter, and in Az, pitchers have to throw more fastballs, and the curveballs they do throw hang more often.

Along with these 4HR's, Gomes has an OBP of .297, and an 11/1 K/BB ratio. He really is not having as good a spring as most people think he is having. I doubt he will be able to keep up this type of power once the season starts. Without that, he's not a very good hitter.

Balantien on the other hand has this line this spring:

.286 .333 .500 .833

Combine that with much better defense and speed, and I would much rather have Balantien playing left everyday than Gomes, especially when you consider he has a much brighter future than Gomes.

I say trade Gomes, with his low contract, there's a good chance you could get a good prospect or two. A lot of teams could use some power off the bench.

Brutus
03-23-2010, 03:14 PM
I'm of a very different opinion on Gomes.

I want Balantien as the LF. And I want Dickerson as the 4th OF, who gets around 400-500 PA's filing in for each position in the outfield.

Sure, Gomes has hit a bunch of HR's. But this is in Az, where the balls fly out and the air is too dry for pitchers to get good grips on their curveballs. Gomes is a fastball hitter, and in Az, pitchers have to throw more fastballs, and the curveballs they do throw hang more often.

Along with these 4HR's, Gomes has an OBP of .297, and an 11/1 K/BB ratio. He really is not having as good a spring as most people think he is having. I doubt he will be able to keep up this type of power once the season starts. Without that, he's not a very good hitter.

Balantien on the other hand has this line this spring:

.286 .333 .500 .833

Combine that with much better defense and speed, and I would much rather have Balantien playing left everyday than Gomes, especially when you consider he has a much brighter future than Gomes.

I say trade Gomes, with his low contract, there's a good chance you could get a good prospect or two. A lot of teams could use some power off the bench.

For his entire career, he's hitting home runs in about 5% of his plate appearances. I don't see why power of all things he couldn't sustain. That's out of 1800 PA's now.

I'm not saying it's silly to rather have Balentien or that some of the other peripheral stats are necessarily working in favor of Gomes, but power of all things should not be questioned.

TheNext44
03-23-2010, 03:32 PM
For his entire career, he's hitting home runs in about 5% of his plate appearances. I don't see why power of all things he couldn't sustain. That's out of 1800 PA's now.

I'm not saying it's silly to rather have Balentien or that some of the other peripheral stats are necessarily working in favor of Gomes, but power of all things should not be questioned.

I agree that Gomes hit's HR's. But that is about all he does.

Everyone is sold on him as the Reds LF because he hit 4 HR's this spring. But that is at more than twice his normal rate of 5%. If he was hitting them at his normal rate, which would mean 2 HR's this spring, (and lets assume he got singles instead of HR's) his OPS would be .797, with a low unacceptable .297 OPB, which is the more important stat.

Gomes make a great power bat off the bench, but really should not be starting.

flyer85
03-23-2010, 03:35 PM
most likely at best Gomes is a useful platoon player. The Reds need to find out about Dickerson, Stubbs and Balentien.

If the above can cut it then guys like Heisey and Frazier get a shot. The Reds need decent production out of the outfield if they are going to compete.

bucksfan2
03-23-2010, 03:35 PM
I'm of a very different opinion on Gomes.

I want Balantien as the LF. And I want Dickerson as the 4th OF, who gets around 400-500 PA's filing in for each position in the outfield.

Sure, Gomes has hit a bunch of HR's. But this is in Az, where the balls fly out and the air is too dry for pitchers to get good grips on their curveballs. Gomes is a fastball hitter, and in Az, pitchers have to throw more fastballs, and the curveballs they do throw hang more often.

Along with these 4HR's, Gomes has an OBP of .297, and an 11/1 K/BB ratio. He really is not having as good a spring as most people think he is having. I doubt he will be able to keep up this type of power once the season starts. Without that, he's not a very good hitter.

Balantien on the other hand has this line this spring:

.286 .333 .500 .833

Combine that with much better defense and speed, and I would much rather have Balantien playing left everyday than Gomes, especially when you consider he has a much brighter future than Gomes.

I say trade Gomes, with his low contract, there's a good chance you could get a good prospect or two. A lot of teams could use some power off the bench.

I am interested in what you like in Balentine except for raw potential. In what I saw of him last season he was raw in both the field and at the plate. His minor league time was short circuited by his contract and he never was fully able to develop. We have seen it with WMP in that a guy who has been rushed to the major leagues with a world of potential fizzles out.

To me Balentine makes the club because of his contract status, because Nix is nothing more than an AAAA player, and because the likes of Frazier, Heisey, and Francisco can use more time in the minors.

If Gomes is traded I would much rather live with Dickerson, his high OBP and defense in LF, than Balentine and his raw potential.

edabbs44
03-23-2010, 04:08 PM
Everyone is sold on him as the Reds LF because he hit 4 HR's this spring.

I'm more sold on him b/c he was 2nd on the team in OPS last year.

Brutus
03-23-2010, 04:31 PM
I'm more sold on him b/c he was 2nd on the team in OPS last year.

Yep.

That he hit four home runs this spring is encouraging, but I'm more impressed with his OPS in over 300 PA's last year. That is why I'm sold on him, as well.

TheNext44
03-23-2010, 11:24 PM
I'm more sold on him b/c he was 2nd on the team in OPS last year.

And yet Balentien provided more wins above replacement in around a third as many AB's.

I know most people find projections silly, and I find them more fun than informative, but still, Balentien projects to be twice as productive this year than Gomes, played well in the final months of 2009 and well so far in spring training. Everything they have done recently suggests that Balentien will be better than Gomes overall over a full season. And he has a brighter future than Gomes.

Maybe keep both and drop Nix, but even if you do that, Balentien should be getting a majority of the playing time. He has earned it.

edabbs44
03-24-2010, 06:09 AM
And yet Balentien provided more wins above replacement in around a third as many AB's.

I know most people find projections silly, and I find them more fun than informative, but still, Balentien projects to be twice as productive this year than Gomes, played well in the final months of 2009 and well so far in spring training. Everything they have done recently suggests that Balentien will be better than Gomes overall over a full season. And he has a brighter future than Gomes.

Maybe keep both and drop Nix, but even if you do that, Balentien should be getting a majority of the playing time. He has earned it.

I'm not a huge buyer of defensive metrics at this point. Also, this team needs offense.

OnBaseMachine
05-04-2010, 12:21 AM
It's becoming more and more evident Jonny Gomes isn't the answer in left field. Besides playing awful defense, he's currently hitting .197/.233/.333 - .566 OPS and is swinging at everything. He entered tonight averaging 3.03 pitches per plate apperance. That's awful. The Reds don't have anyone on the roster capable of providing what they need in left field. If the Reds are serious about contending this season then they desperately need to find a left fielder, IMO.

reds44
05-04-2010, 12:25 AM
It's becoming more and more evident Jonny Gomes isn't the answer in left field. Besides playing awful defense, he's currently hitting .197/.233/.333 - .566 OPS and is swinging at everything. He entered tonight averaging 3.03 pitches per plate apperance. That's awful. The Reds don't have anyone on the roster capable of providing what they need in left field. If the Reds are serious about contending this season then they desperately need to find a left fielder, IMO.
There's a rather easy and painless solution to this problem.

His name is Jermaine Dye.

Blitz Dorsey
05-04-2010, 12:25 AM
There's a rather easy and painless solution to this problem.

His name is Jermaine Dye.

There ya go!

fearofpopvol1
05-04-2010, 12:50 AM
Dye would be good for the rest of the season in my opinion. Or a minimum, stick Heisey out there and see what he has. At least he'll play great defense and you can evaluate him and his worth.

Benihana
05-04-2010, 01:01 AM
Dye would be good for the rest of the season in my opinion. Or a minimum, stick Heisey out there and see what he has. At least he'll play great defense and you can evaluate him and his worth.

I like your first suggestion, not the second.

If Stubbs and Heisey make up 2/3 of your starting OF, you are not going to score nearly enough to be competitive. If you want to see what Heisey's got, rotate him in with Stubbs, not alongside him.

The Reds need a LF that has the ability to OPS over .800. I don't think Stubbs or Heisey have that ability at the major league level.

reds44
05-04-2010, 01:58 AM
There's no reason for anybody to be against signing Dye for the rest of the year. Nobody is busting down the door, we have blackholes in CF and LF, and there's no young guys to take playing time from.

Just do it. Hit him 6th behind Bruce, and be done with it.

Will M
05-04-2010, 02:04 AM
I agree that the giant gaping hole the team has is left field.
Stubbs. Cabrera over Janish. Ramon over Ryan. Harang.
These are minor annoyances compared to the production we are getting out of left field.

However,
#1 none of our preseason top prospects has impressed so far in 2010
#2 Dye not only wanted $3M but wasn't very good last year (-0.4 WAR)
#3 not too many teams are willing to deal so early in the season
#4 i don't think Bob C wants to increase the payroll

i'll suggest a possible solution: use the 2011 payflex now. find a team that wants to reduce payroll (there are a few) and make a deal. add salary for 2010 but count it towards 2011. for example, lets say Houston gives us Carlos Lee & cash for a couple minor leaguers. we pay $8M to Lee in 2010/2011/2012 & the Astros pay the rest. Instead of the Reds 2011 budget being $80M its $72M because we have to sort of payback the $8M we payed Lee this year. note this is just an example. the idea is to add salary now but accept a lower payroll in 2011 to make up the difference. why would we do it? if the ownership (ie Walt) thought that the acquired player could get us into the playoffs this year.

fearofpopvol1
05-04-2010, 03:50 AM
I like your first suggestion, not the second.

If Stubbs and Heisey make up 2/3 of your starting OF, you are not going to score nearly enough to be competitive. If you want to see what Heisey's got, rotate him in with Stubbs, not alongside him.

The Reds need a LF that has the ability to OPS over .800. I don't think Stubbs or Heisey have that ability at the major league level.

Here's the question though...is Heisey better than Gomes is? Gomes has good career numbers against lefties, but he hasn't been hitting squat. I think Heisey would be better. And his defensive value would make him a plus defender in LF. Bat him lower in the order. Gomes already sort of is anyway. I don't see how Heisey is any worse of an option than Gomes is.

reds44
05-04-2010, 03:58 AM
Here's the question though...is Heisey better than Gomes is? Gomes has good career numbers against lefties, but he hasn't been hitting squat. I think Heisey would be better. And his defensive value would make him a plus defender in LF. Bat him lower in the order. Gomes already sort of is anyway. I don't see how Heisey is any worse of an option than Gomes is.
He was hitting .241/.307/.430/.737 in AAA. What makes you think he can come up and produce better here?

If you have Heisey and Stubbs in the same OF, Bruce/Votto/Phillips/Rolen are ALL going to have to be absolute beasts.

Topcat
05-04-2010, 04:11 AM
Dye would be good for the rest of the season in my opinion. Or a minimum, stick Heisey out there and see what he has. At least he'll play great defense and you can evaluate him and his worth.


Totally agree with you:thumbup:. Fact is this team would need a freakin miracle to be world Series contenders. Playoffs are a dream but possible. Beyond that no way. Best to build and develop and heisey could be the Reds Dykstra as in a true gamer going forward.

GAC
05-04-2010, 04:40 AM
Dickerson can't stay healthy. Out 4-6 weeks now.

The reason we're in this situation in LF to begin with is because of an ownership that is cheap.

As for Jermain Dye. No thanks.

Jermaine Dye still wants to dictate the terms of his return.... http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Jermaine-Dye-still-wants-to-dictate-the-terms-of?urn=mlb,237873

HokieRed
05-04-2010, 08:59 AM
Cabrera/Nix

edabbs44
05-04-2010, 09:11 AM
There's no reason for anybody to be against signing Dye for the rest of the year. Nobody is busting down the door, we have blackholes in CF and LF, and there's no young guys to take playing time from.

Just do it. Hit him 6th behind Bruce, and be done with it.

Does "anybody" include Dye?


Everything about the interview seemed to indicate that Dye is ready to head to work with a smile, until his last quote in the piece:

"'I'm not going to a bad team, and I'm not playing for $1.5 million."


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Jermaine-Dye-still-wants-to-dictate-the-terms-of?urn=mlb,237873

flyer85
05-04-2010, 09:12 AM
It's becoming more and more evident Jonny Gomes isn't the answer in left field.
I'm shocked!! :D

cumberlandreds
05-04-2010, 09:27 AM
Dickerson can't stay healthy. Out 4-6 weeks now.

The reason we're in this situation in LF to begin with is because of an ownership that is cheap.

As for Jermain Dye. No thanks.

Jermaine Dye still wants to dictate the terms of his return.... http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Jermaine-Dye-still-wants-to-dictate-the-terms-of?urn=mlb,237873

Below is Dye's quote. I think that statement pretty much takes care of the Reds chances of picking him up.

"'I'm not going to a bad team, and I'm not playing for $1.5 million."

bucksfan2
05-04-2010, 09:43 AM
It's becoming more and more evident Jonny Gomes isn't the answer in left field. Besides playing awful defense, he's currently hitting .197/.233/.333 - .566 OPS and is swinging at everything. He entered tonight averaging 3.03 pitches per plate apperance. That's awful. The Reds don't have anyone on the roster capable of providing what they need in left field. If the Reds are serious about contending this season then they desperately need to find a left fielder, IMO.

Johnny Gomes is a .566 OPS guy just the same as Paul Janish is a 1.013 OPS guy. Making snap judgments based upon one month of the season is bad baseball business. Gomes right now is missing pitches that he should flat out destroy. It happens in baseball when you are off. I am confident that at the Gomes will be very similar to the player he was last season. Right now the Reds have no better answer in LF than Gomes. As the legend of Chris Heisey continues to grow lets wait until he does something in the majors before we anoint him the starting LF.

OnBaseMachine
05-04-2010, 12:14 PM
Johnny Gomes is a .566 OPS guy just the same as Paul Janish is a 1.013 OPS guy. Making snap judgments based upon one month of the season is bad baseball business. Gomes right now is missing pitches that he should flat out destroy. It happens in baseball when you are off. I am confident that at the Gomes will be very similar to the player he was last season. Right now the Reds have no better answer in LF than Gomes. As the legend of Chris Heisey continues to grow lets wait until he does something in the majors before we anoint him the starting LF.

It's not a snap judgement. Jonny Gomes is what he is - a horrible defensive outfielder who can only hit LHP. He's not a starter at the major league level. What little value he provides with the bat he gives away with his defense. He's a fine guy to have on the bench but he's not starter material.

Brutus
05-04-2010, 12:57 PM
It's not a snap judgement. Jonny Gomes is what he is - a horrible defensive outfielder who can only hit LHP. He's not a starter at the major league level. What little value he provides with the bat he gives away with his defense. He's a fine guy to have on the bench but he's not starter material.

He has a career .441 slugging even against RHP in nearly 1,300 plate appearances and a respectable 9.3% walk rate.

Truly, his .748 OPS against righties comes from the high amount of strikeouts (29.3%) and not putting many balls in play. It all counts, but I don't think it's fair to see that he can only hit LHP.

I would agree with you, though, that it's fair to say he doesn't hit RHP enough consistently to justify his defense.

bucksfan2
05-04-2010, 02:28 PM
It's not a snap judgement. Jonny Gomes is what he is - a horrible defensive outfielder who can only hit LHP. He's not a starter at the major league level. What little value he provides with the bat he gives away with his defense. He's a fine guy to have on the bench but he's not starter material.

Last year in 81 games Gomes had a OPS of .879 against RHP. I am willing to put more faith in that number than 22 games so far this season. Last year may have been a career year for Gomes but I still don't see him struggling the way he is for the rest of the season. So yea I think your making a snap judgment either based upon a personal dislike for Gomes or a miserable start to the season. To further the point the Reds don't have a better answer for the LF position right now. Maybe its Heisey, but he is far from a world beater. He has a career minor league OPS of .825 and hast struggled mighty this season.

reds44
05-04-2010, 02:42 PM
Last year in 81 games Gomes had a OPS of .879 against RHP. I am willing to put more faith in that number than 22 games so far this season. Last year may have been a career year for Gomes but I still don't see him struggling the way he is for the rest of the season. So yea I think your making a snap judgment either based upon a personal dislike for Gomes or a miserable start to the season. To further the point the Reds don't have a better answer for the LF position right now. Maybe its Heisey, but he is far from a world beater. He has a career minor league OPS of .825 and hast struggled mighty this season.
For his career, Gomes has a BA of .223 and an OPS of .748 against RHP.

With his defense, he's really bad when he's in the lineup against righties.

Bumstead
05-04-2010, 02:44 PM
Last year has passed and it's not all that surprising that Gomes has reverted back closer to his career norms. A .748 OPS in LF is bad regardless of his fielding prowess or in this case "lack there of."

Besides, why give Gomes a pass? Nobody is giving Cabrera a pass...:D

Bum

nate
05-04-2010, 03:36 PM
For his career, Gomes has a BA of .223 and an OPS of .748 against RHP.

With his defense, he's really bad when he's in the lineup against righties.

Right. I'll take those games as evidence of his ability than a couple hundred PAs from last year.

Still, bucksfan2 makes a good point in that there's no one else to play out there. We're gonna be grinning (maybe) and bearing it for awhile. I hope they give Heisey a chance as there's more upside and ceiling there than Gomes/Nix.

OnBaseMachine
05-04-2010, 03:42 PM
Last year in 81 games Gomes had a OPS of .879 against RHP. I am willing to put more faith in that number than 22 games so far this season. Last year may have been a career year for Gomes but I still don't see him struggling the way he is for the rest of the season. So yea I think your making a snap judgment either based upon a personal dislike for Gomes or a miserable start to the season. To further the point the Reds don't have a better answer for the LF position right now. Maybe its Heisey, but he is far from a world beater. He has a career minor league OPS of .825 and hast struggled mighty this season.

Ah yes, I see you're playing the personal bias card again. A few weeks ago I commented on Cabrera's defense and you blamed it on my personal dislike for him. Good grief. I have nothing against Jonny Gomes or Orlando Cabrera. I just don't think they should be starting because they're clearly not helping the team. Take a look at Gomes's career stats - a .748 career OPS vs RHP. With his defense, that's simply not good enough to be an everyday player.

Ron Madden
05-05-2010, 03:51 AM
It's so much easier to place blame on a person you disagree with than to accept the cold hard facts of life that the evidence combined statistics provide.

GAC
05-05-2010, 04:08 AM
None of the guys we've put out there is the answer. And we're discussing (arguing) who of the lot should be?

Dunn's cursed LF for us. :D

Homer Bailey
05-09-2010, 12:26 PM
Gomes now at .266/.291/.430/.721. After his terrible start, those numbers aren't half bad. We'd all like that OBP to climb, but I think we're starting see that we've been analyzing the numbers way too early this year (with a lot of guys, not just Gomes). He is still our best option for LF IMO.

Tom Servo
05-09-2010, 03:41 PM
Seems like Gomes could be heating up.

_Sir_Charles_
05-09-2010, 03:46 PM
Seems like Gomes could be heating up.

9 for last 17 and he "could" be heating up? Nope...Jonny's en fuego!

RedsManRick
05-09-2010, 03:47 PM
Gomes now at .266/.291/.430/.721. After his terrible start, those numbers aren't half bad. We'd all like that OBP to climb, but I think we're starting see that we've been analyzing the numbers way too early this year (with a lot of guys, not just Gomes). He is still our best option for LF IMO.

I'd argue that for a player with negative defensive value, those numbers are half bad. I agree that it's too early for any numbers to mean much, but when healthy, Dickerson provides more production. For now, I'd like to see Heisey given much more of a shot to see what he can do.

edabbs44
05-09-2010, 04:02 PM
I'd argue that for a player with negative defensive value, those numbers are half bad. I agree that it's too early for any numbers to mean much, but when healthy, Dickerson provides more production. For now, I'd like to see Heisey given much more of a shot to see what he can do.

I don't get why he should get a shot.

reds44
05-09-2010, 04:03 PM
Gomes is the best option the Reds have in LF right now, against all handed pitchers. I still think he's best suited as a part time player, but I'd play him in LF everyday until the Reds get a better option vs. RHP.

RedsManRick
05-09-2010, 10:21 PM
I don't get why he should get a shot.

Because even when he's hitting well, Gomes isn't very productive. Heisey can be. Given the choice between two relatively unappealing options, I'll take the one with upside.

Or are we still playing the LF defense doesn't matter/ defense can't be measured game and ignoring his general inability to get on base.

11larkin11
05-09-2010, 10:41 PM
I really don't care about an OBP from the 6 hole. Knock in those guys in front of you. Jonny did that last year, and has been doing it the last few games. Hopefully, thay continues.

Guacarock
05-10-2010, 01:25 AM
Heisey didn't look ready to me in spring training and he certainly looks overmatched right now. Best if he got more experience in AAA.

Wish they had called up Dorn or Balentien instead. This team needs all the help on offense it can get. Maybe Heisey will be a good player down the road. But much like Frazier and Francisco, he remains a work in progress and would benefit from more seasoning at a lower level of play.

edabbs44
05-10-2010, 08:54 AM
Because even when he's hitting well, Gomes isn't very productive. Heisey can be. Given the choice between two relatively unappealing options, I'll take the one with upside.

Heisey hasn't done much of anything above AA and has seemed a bit overmatched in his limited time at the plate in Cincy. Gomes' offensive floor is Heisey's ceiling, IMO.



Or are we still playing the LF defense doesn't matter/ defense can't be measured game and ignoring his general inability to get on base.

We can take these one at a time.

- I think LF defense matters.

- I think that current defensive metrics are flawed and I am not a buyer of them at this time. Trying to quantify defensive impact is a difficult task. It is obvious that Gomes isn't a star out there but with the exception of a couple of plays in a 3-4 game span earlier this season (which magnified the piling on), he has been pretty adequate out there. Not diving all over the place but making the plays he needs to be making.

- His career OBP is .328 over 1874 PAs. The MLB average OBP this season is .330. I'm not seeing a general inability in getting on base. What leads you to believe that he has problems in this area?

Spring~Fields
05-10-2010, 11:39 AM
I was very happy that the Mets and Cubs sent out some left handed pitchers against the Reds, I was tickled to death as some of the Reds become all-stars against run of the mill left handed pitching. (Run the "Happy Feet" trailer here)

Dusty Baker knows it, diehard Reds fans armed with some simple stats should know that too.

The luck really changes against left handed or right handed starters for some players on the Reds team. No surprises of significant improvement against LH pitching, it’s been well covered.

Right handed pitching like Maine and Berg doesn't hurt anything either.

Team season
vs. LH .351 .414 .766
vs. RH .312 .404 .716

Last 7 Days .285 .338 .480 .817
Mets Perez LH, Mets Niese LH, Mets Maine RH
Cubs Silva RH, Grabow LH, Cubs Gorzelanny LH, Berg RH
Cubs Dempster RH
Carpenter of St. Louis was in the seven day list. He wasn't much help to the Reds numbers.

Anybody notice a difference for a group of players in the last seven days and against left handed pitching and bad right handed pitching?
(Run the buyer beware disclaimer here)


Cabrera
vs. LH .387 .472 .484 .956
vs. RH .226 .231 .333 .564
L 7 Days.385 .429 .500 .929

Gomes
vs. LH .310 .355 .586 .941
vs. RH .241 .254 .352 .606
L 7 Days.409 .409 .636 1.045

Phillips
vs. LH .345 .367 .517 .884
vs. RH .228 .311 .402 .713
L 7 Days.320 .346 .680 1.026

Votto
vs. LH .265 .375 .412 .787
vs. RH .338 .447 .636 1.083
L 7 Days.417 .481 .833 1.314

Hanigan
vs. LH .364 .462 .636 1.098
vs. RH .424 .525 .636 1.161
L 7 Days.500 .556 1.000 1.556

Hernandez
vs. LH .294 .368 .294 .662
vs. RH .273 .418 .364 .782
L 7 Days.375 .444 .438 .882


Then there are those that continue to have their different issues.



Bruce
vs. LH .233 .343 .467 .810
vs. RH .257 .349 .459 .808
L 7 Days.235 .435 .294 .729

Rolen
vs. LH .235 .391 .412 .803
vs. RH .253 .302 .494 .796
L 7 Days.200 .227 .400 .627

Stubbs
vs. LH .152 .243 .273 .516
vs. RH .194 .280 .292 .572
L 7 Days.185 .214 .333 .547


I certainly would like to see guys like Gomes and Cabrera continue to start against left handed pitching.

Raisor
05-10-2010, 11:59 AM
I really don't care about an OBP from the 6 hole. Knock in those guys in front of you. Jonny did that last year, and has been doing it the last few games. Hopefully, thay continues.

You should always care about OBP. At the very least, it flips the lineup over faster to get your better offensive players more PA's.

nate
05-10-2010, 12:01 PM
I really don't care about an OBP from the 6 hole. Knock in those guys in front of you. Jonny did that last year, and has been doing it the last few games. Hopefully, thay continues.

More sac flies and bunts?

How else does one "knock in those guys in front of you" without getting on base?

edabbs44
05-10-2010, 12:43 PM
More sac flies and bunts?

How else does one "knock in those guys in front of you" without getting on base?

Ask Gomes. Currently 2nd on the team in RBI (7th in ABs) with a .289 OBP, on pace for 99 RBI with less than 450 PAs.

edabbs44
05-15-2010, 10:54 PM
Jonny G - .283/.315/.475

Gomes has really stepped it up over the past few weeks after a horrid start. Hopefully he has settled in and this is what we will get for the rest of the season. Really happy with him so far.

Patrick Bateman
05-15-2010, 10:55 PM
Jonny G - .283/.315/.475

Gomes has really stepped it up over the past few weeks after a horrid start. Hopefully he has settled in and this is what we will get for the rest of the season. Really happy with him so far.

Would still be nice to have a decent lefty to take the majority of the starts against righties. But Gomes is at least showing the ability to continue to hit servicably enough against either to not be a joke in any situation. That's worth something even if not ideal.

WVRedsFan
05-15-2010, 11:17 PM
You lose a lot with Dickerson in there: Raw power, enthusiasm, and durability. It seems that Dickerson is hurt every time you turn around. That said, when or if Dickersron comes back, he has to play to spell Gomes and that's exactly what it should be as long as Jonny is hot.

VR
05-15-2010, 11:21 PM
You lose a lot with Dickerson in there: Raw power, enthusiasm, and durability. It seems that Dickerson is hurt every time you turn around. That said, when or if Dickersron comes back, he has to play to spell Gomes and that's exactly what it should be as long as Jonny is hot.

Dickerson was lost to start the year. I'm hoping the time away has given him some good time for film study and game observation...ala Jay Bruce last year.

marcshoe
05-16-2010, 01:36 AM
I like Jonny Gomes, but, truth be told, the Reds need a proven, consistent power bat added to the lineup, and left field would likely be the easiest place to add. Earlier in this thread Will, I think, mentioned Carlos Lee and, while he'd hardly help the defense, I think he'd make a huge difference in the middle of this lineup. Gomes is a good guy to have on the team, but, with the pitching looking as good as it is right now, one more big bat would make them serious contenders.

mth123
05-16-2010, 08:15 AM
Gomes did well against RHP last year. He may not need a platoon partner, maybe just a part time guy to spot in against certain RHP. I'd probably be more inclined to make Gomes the primary guy out there with the knowledge that I'd sit him when the Reds have fly ball heavy arms on the mound (Harang and Cueto being the top 2) and a big OF to cover or a tough righty going for the opponent. Nix might be OK in that role.

If that isn't good enough, then they need to deal for an established guy. The Reds lose too much pop when Dickerson subs for Gomes. I'd prefer he stick to CF or defensive caddy. The way Stubbs is starting to play, I'm not really in a hurry for Dickerson to come back.

pahster
05-16-2010, 09:17 AM
I like Jonny Gomes, but, truth be told, the Reds need a proven, consistent power bat added to the lineup, and left field would likely be the easiest place to add. Earlier in this thread Will, I think, mentioned Carlos Lee and, while he'd hardly help the defense, I think he'd make a huge difference in the middle of this lineup. Gomes is a good guy to have on the team, but, with the pitching looking as good as it is right now, one more big bat would make them serious contenders.

Lee has fallen off the face of the Earth this year. Given that he's in his year 34 season, it's not a given that he's going to turn it around and hit the way he used to. Heck, while he was good last year, he wasn't awesome like he was in the years before 2009.

Will M
05-16-2010, 02:49 PM
Gomes terrific play lately has lessened the need for a big everyday thumper in left. i do agree that we could use a better option than Nix. Lance just isn't getting it done this year. maybe we upgrade the bench OF spot with a better LF bat & send Heiesy back to AAA for regular playing time. then when Dickerson comes back Nix goes.

Right now if I were Walt I'd be looking really hard for guys to replace Heisy/Nix & Cairo on the 25 man roster. the team is playing fantastic but its a looooong season. we need more depth.

Kc61
05-16-2010, 03:08 PM
Gomes terrific play lately has lessened the need for a big everyday thumper in left. i do agree that we could use a better option than Nix. Lance just isn't getting it done this year. maybe we upgrade the bench OF spot with a better LF bat & send Heiesy back to AAA for regular playing time. then when Dickerson comes back Nix goes.

Right now if I were Walt I'd be looking really hard for guys to replace Heisy/Nix & Cairo on the 25 man roster. the team is playing fantastic but its a looooong season. we need more depth.

I'm ok with Heisey/Nix with Alonso getting ready in case of injury.

I've got no problem with Janish.

Cairo hasn't hit much, Reds might look for a better hitter, maybe a switch hitter, for that spot.

Scrap Irony
05-16-2010, 03:11 PM
Gomes up to a 310 BA on the season, with an OPS over 830. Nice to see him approach last year's numbers.

Average 2009 LF OPS: 781

Will M
05-16-2010, 04:03 PM
I'm ok with Heisey/Nix with Alonso getting ready in case of injury.

I've got no problem with Janish.

Cairo hasn't hit much, Reds might look for a better hitter, maybe a switch hitter, for that spot.

I know Alonso has had a couple of good games in AAA but he has less than a week above AA. i am not sure i would count on him as being a guy who can help the team this year. i am not saying he won't. i am just a bit cautious to count on him in 2010.

IMO replacing Cairo with someone who can play 2B/3B & hit a bit is the move Walt should be looking at first.

Homer Bailey
05-16-2010, 04:15 PM
Gomes is the man. Play him in left. He's earned it for a year+ now.

Brutus
05-17-2010, 10:06 PM
Updated Gomes line:

.294-5-24
.328/.514/.842

Through about 420 plate appearances for the Reds, he has an OPS over .860.

edabbs44
05-17-2010, 10:13 PM
Updated Gomes line:

.294-5-24
.328/.514/.842

Through about 420 plate appearances for the Reds, he has an OPS over .860.

And makes near MLB minimum wage.

OnBaseMachine
05-17-2010, 10:25 PM
Love the way Gomes is playing right now. I still think the Reds need to add a left handed bat to pair with him (maybe Alonso will be that guy).

Falls City Beer
05-17-2010, 10:29 PM
Remember when the offense was going to be bad?

mth123
05-17-2010, 10:32 PM
Remember when the offense was going to be bad?

Remember when the pitching was going to be?

Falls City Beer
05-17-2010, 10:32 PM
Remember when the pitching was going to be?

Team ERA still stinks.

_Sir_Charles_
05-17-2010, 10:33 PM
Team ERA still stinks.

Check it since the SD team meeting.

It might be getting to the time to change your sig. :O) I don't want to be like the Cards now.

Falls City Beer
05-17-2010, 10:34 PM
Check it since the SD team meeting.

Again, this team often has had good two or three week stretches. In this case, the defense has seriously helped them. I'm telling you, the pitching will get unmasked.

mth123
05-17-2010, 10:36 PM
Again, this team often has good two or three week stretches. In this case, the defense has seriously helped them. I'm telling you, the pitching will get unmasked.

Same might be true of an offense with some guys who projected to be awful playing really well. I'm hopeful that no one collapses, but I think a collapse behind the plate, at SS or in CF is more likely than a collapse by one of the starting pitchers.

paintmered
05-17-2010, 10:37 PM
What does any of this pitching discussion have to do with Gomes or Dickerson?

_Sir_Charles_
05-17-2010, 10:38 PM
Sorry. You're right. Got off track a bit.

Falls City Beer
05-17-2010, 10:39 PM
I think the better question is: why is a thread debating a choice that is no longer a choice being bumped?

Homer Bailey
05-17-2010, 11:29 PM
I think it should be bumped to show that people shouldn't make snap judgments based on 3 weeks worth of numbers (see earlier in the thread). We knew Gomes was going to rake (at least some of us did), and after having an absolutely awful start, he's already over .800. Guy can flat out hit. So glad the Reds re-signed him.

Brutus
05-17-2010, 11:31 PM
I think it should be bumped to show that people shouldn't make snap judgments based on 3 weeks worth of numbers (see earlier in the thread). We knew Gomes was going to rake (at least some of us did), and after having an absolutely awful start, he's already over .800. Guy can flat out hit. So glad the Reds re-signed him.

Yea I don't get the argument he's not an everyday player. Never have.

I think the argument that he gives away too much with the glove is a fair debate. But saying he's not worthy of being an everyday player implies he can't hack it with the bat. I just don't see that being accurate. His so-so OBP is overcome with very good power.

If the Reds can find a good bat that also is great in the field, I'll be all for that kind of acquisition. But until/unless that happens, I'm more than fine having Gomes out there.

fearofpopvol1
05-17-2010, 11:34 PM
Gomes is on fire. Ride that bat while it's hot.

GADawg
05-17-2010, 11:57 PM
Wainright and Coffey must've both been throwing left handed since we all know Gomes can't touch righties:rolleyes:

Will M
05-18-2010, 12:47 AM
Wainright and Coffey must've both been throwing left handed since we all know Gomes can't touch righties:rolleyes:

two pitchers? kinda a small sample size. look at Johnny's splits over the years. no question he crushes LHP yet is just ok vs RHP.

Will M
05-18-2010, 12:50 AM
Yea I don't get the argument he's not an everyday player. Never have.

I think the argument that he gives away too much with the glove is a fair debate. But saying he's not worthy of being an everyday player implies he can't hack it with the bat. I just don't see that being accurate. His so-so OBP is overcome with very good power.

If the Reds can find a good bat that also is great in the field, I'll be all for that kind of acquisition. But until/unless that happens, I'm more than fine having Gomes out there.

Brutus: i thought you were a big modern stat guy. don't you believe in WAR? based on this stat Gomes is not an everyday player. the reason is that his bat is dragged down by his poor defensive numbers. i know some people question WAR & think a guy's poor defense shouldn't be punished as much as this stat seems to. what do you think?

OnBaseMachine
05-18-2010, 12:51 AM
I loved Thom Brennaman's call of Gomes' homer tonight. Check it out if you missed it.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=8086995

Brutus
05-18-2010, 12:54 AM
Brutus: i thought you were a big modern stat guy. don't you believe in WAR? based on this stat Gomes is not an everyday player. the reason is that his bat is dragged down by his poor defensive numbers. i know some people question WAR & think a guy's poor defense shouldn't be punished as much as this stat seems to. what do you think?

Yes, I do believe in WAR. I think, though, he can sustain being a 1 or 2-win player despite his defense. Obviously you can't have a lineup of 1-win players, but at one or two positions, it's not outrageous.

I guess my position has more to do with his hitting directly than defense. As I said, I think it's a legitimate question as to whether the Reds should start a 1-win player in left, mostly caused by giving away several runs defensively. But speaking only of his bat, the guy can clearly hit.

reds44
05-18-2010, 12:58 AM
Has his defense really been that bad in LF? He definatley hasn't had any Dunn moments.

Will M
05-18-2010, 01:08 AM
Yes, I do believe in WAR. I think, though, he can sustain being a 1 or 2-win player despite his defense. Obviously you can't have a lineup of 1-win players, but at one or two positions, it's not outrageous.

I guess my position has more to do with his hitting directly than defense. As I said, I think it's a legitimate question as to whether the Reds should start a 1-win player in left, mostly caused by giving away several runs defensively. But speaking only of his bat, the guy can clearly hit.

i understand where you are coming from now. i guess i think of a guy who is 2.5 WAR as an "everyday player". so i see a 1 WAR player as a solid bench guy. you are correct that not every guy on the field has to be that good & that a good team can have a couple of starters at the 1-2 WAR level as long as other guys are really good.

Spring~Fields
05-18-2010, 01:55 AM
I think it should be bumped to show that people shouldn't make snap judgments based on 3 weeks worth of numbers (see earlier in the thread). We knew Gomes was going to rake (at least some of us did), and after having an absolutely awful start, he's already over .800. Guy can flat out hit. So glad the Reds re-signed him.



Jonny Gomes
April .217 .254 .367 .621
May .405 .422 .667 1.089
Last 7 Days .421 .455 .737 1.192

Ramon Hernandez
April .250 .389 .318 .707
May .385 .467 .500 .967
Last 7 Days .444 .500 .667 1.167

Drew Stubbs
April .186 .301 .271 .572
May .222 .250 .481 .731
Last 7 Days .316 .350 .789 1.139

Scott Rolen
April .257 .342 .514 .856
May .292 .333 .521 .854
Last 7 Days .364 .417 .682 1.099

Jay Bruce
April .263 .333 .500 .833
May .283 .411 .391 .802
Last 7 Days .364 .440 .455 .895

Brandon Phillips
April .236 .320 .371 .691
May .309 .356 .527 .883
Last 7 Days .304 .385 .435 .820

Orlando Cabrera
April .241 .272 .349 .621
May .315 .345 .407 .752
Last 7 Days .273 .304 .364 .668

Ryan Hanigan
April .452 .553 .645 1.198
May .269 .387 .462 .849
Last 7 Days .231 .375 .308 .683

Joey Votto
April .275 .404 .500 .904
May .309 .361 .564 .925
Last 7 Days .167 .192 .333 .525



I think it should be bumped to show that people shouldn't make snap judgments based on 3 weeks worth of numbers (see earlier in the thread).

Are you saying that we should be even more conservative when it comes to snap judgements based upon seven to seventeen days then? :)

edabbs44
05-18-2010, 07:07 AM
Has his defense really been that bad in LF? He definatley hasn't had any Dunn moments.

He had a few questionable plays out there, but his defensive shortcomings have been greatly exaggerated. Thanks to UZR.

edabbs44
05-18-2010, 07:15 AM
Love the way Gomes is playing right now. I still think the Reds need to add a left handed bat to pair with him (maybe Alonso will be that guy).

I can't see Alonso being that guy this year. Bonafide leadoff guy with plus D, then we can talk and see what kind of upgrade we'd be looking at. But I think Alonso's ceiling in 2010 is exactly what Gomes has done since he landed.

Blimpie
05-18-2010, 07:43 AM
I loved Thom Brennaman's call of Gomes' homer tonight. Check it out if you missed it.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=8086995Granted, my sarcasm meter could used some calibrating.... are you saying that you liked his call of Gomes blast?

Personally, I thought it was especially cringe-worthy.

Homer Bailey
05-18-2010, 10:00 AM
Jonny Gomes
April .217 .254 .367 .621
May .405 .422 .667 1.089
Last 7 Days .421 .455 .737 1.192

Ramon Hernandez
April .250 .389 .318 .707
May .385 .467 .500 .967
Last 7 Days .444 .500 .667 1.167

Drew Stubbs
April .186 .301 .271 .572
May .222 .250 .481 .731
Last 7 Days .316 .350 .789 1.139

Scott Rolen
April .257 .342 .514 .856
May .292 .333 .521 .854
Last 7 Days .364 .417 .682 1.099

Jay Bruce
April .263 .333 .500 .833
May .283 .411 .391 .802
Last 7 Days .364 .440 .455 .895

Brandon Phillips
April .236 .320 .371 .691
May .309 .356 .527 .883
Last 7 Days .304 .385 .435 .820

Orlando Cabrera
April .241 .272 .349 .621
May .315 .345 .407 .752
Last 7 Days .273 .304 .364 .668

Ryan Hanigan
April .452 .553 .645 1.198
May .269 .387 .462 .849
Last 7 Days .231 .375 .308 .683

Joey Votto
April .275 .404 .500 .904
May .309 .361 .564 .925
Last 7 Days .167 .192 .333 .525




Are you saying that we should be even more conservative when it comes to snap judgements based upon seven to seventeen days then? :)


No, I'm saying that we now have a month and a half sample (far from big enough to truly mean anything, but better than the 3 weekish sample we had in mid to late April). Gomes's numbers were terrible then, but all of RZ was in typical freakout over small sample size numbers. Now that we have twice the sample size, the numbers don't look so bad do they?

nate
05-18-2010, 10:12 AM
Wainright and Coffey must've both been throwing left handed since we all know Gomes can't touch righties:rolleyes:

Let me see if I'm understanding this correctly. Gomes goes 2-6 with a walk, 2 HR and 3 Ks vs. two RHP and not only does that refute 1250-odd PAs with a .228 BA saying he hits RHP poorly but it does so in such a way that it causes you to roll your eyes?

Is that the point you're trying to convey?

edabbs44
05-18-2010, 10:21 AM
Let me see if I'm understanding this correctly. Gomes goes 2-6 with a walk, 2 HR and 3 Ks vs. two RHP and not only does that refute 1250-odd PAs with a .228 BA saying he hits RHP poorly but it does so in such a way that it causes you to roll your eyes?

Is that the point you're trying to convey?

We are headed in the direction of throwing 2006-2008 away and focusing on 2005 and 2009 for historical comps on this guy. Injuries obviously had something to do with his struggles in that three year span. He definitely hits LHPs better than RHPs, but my guess is that he can and will continue to produce against RHPs.

Homer Bailey
05-18-2010, 10:21 AM
Let me see if I'm understanding this correctly. Gomes goes 2-6 with a walk, 2 HR and 3 Ks vs. two RHP and not only does that refute 1250-odd PAs with a .228 BA saying he hits RHP poorly but it does so in such a way that it causes you to roll your eyes?

Is that the point you're trying to convey?

2009 vs. RHP: 133 OPS+
2010 vs. RHP: 100 OPS+

Since leaving the AL East and becoming a (healthy) Red, he has hit above average off of RHP.

Sea Ray
05-18-2010, 10:55 AM
This hot streak sure doesn't do much for Dickerson's resume. At the very least it shows we don't need him in order to win. At the worst it could mean he was impairing our ability to win.

nate
05-18-2010, 11:07 AM
2009 vs. RHP: 133 OPS+
2010 vs. RHP: 100 OPS+

Since leaving the AL East and becoming a (healthy) Red, he has hit above average off of RHP.

Yes, in 270-ish PAs vs. RHP, he's hit better. I hope he continues to do so.

That wasn't what I was talking about.

Spring~Fields
05-18-2010, 12:24 PM
No, I'm saying that we now have a month and a half sample (far from big enough to truly mean anything, but better than the 3 weekish sample we had in mid to late April). Gomes's numbers were terrible then, but all of RZ was in typical freakout over small sample size numbers. Now that we have twice the sample size, the numbers don't look so bad do they?

I think that I like the numbers because they indicate that this team or group is playing well against teams that they should be performing well against.

I would like to think that to play well and to produce against teams that they should, is a big improvement over what we have seen from the groups of players in the recent past. Do I expect individual players to continue to hit or produce numbers at levels like some all time greats or the starting pitching to continue to look like Cy, no.

Regardless.

I am happy with them showing serious improvement against teams that they should perform well against. I think that is a big improvement over the act from a cast of characters that we have witnessed in the past.

Baker modifications, along with team and group synergy looks good to me.