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Kc61
03-27-2010, 04:16 PM
I'm assuming Gomes and Stubbs are starting outfielders. What is the Reds five man bench? Even if you think Dickerson beats out or platoons with Gomes, same basic exercise.

Here's one view, and I'll include Dickerson on the list of five:

Balentien
Dickerson
Francisco
Janish
Hanigan


Provides good lefty/righty balance. Starting team lacks lefty bats, two on bench.

With Janish on the bench, don't really need a Miles, Sutton, or Cairo.

Francisco can spell Rolen and play some left field. He's having another good stretch this spring, maybe Reds add his power off the bench right now.

Balentien provides the punch off the bench from the right side.

And, as said, Dickerson is a fourth outfielder who will play often.

This bench would have some sock and versatility. I kind of like it. Would require eating Miles' contract, cutting Nix, and leaving Sutton at AAA as the next callup when someone gets injured on the team.

Fire away.

Spring~Fields
03-27-2010, 05:15 PM
Dickerson Stubbs Bruce


Rolen Cabrera Phillips Votto


Pitcher


Hernandez
Bench
Hanigan - Naturally backup catcher
Miles - Money might be the factor
Janish - Team needs a solid backup defensively
Gomes - Hunch that Gomes has some kind of deal on playing time, plus his SLG ability
Nix- All position outfield backup.
Plus something DB said, during the off season, about trying to work with Nix .


Balentien , Burke, Cairo, and either Janish or Sutton to the minors and told basically whatever Jerry Hairston Jr, and Gomes was told in the past and then brought up later.

Intuition or a hunch is telling me something will be done with Balentien, but who can trust hunches or intuition?

I think there will be some in house wrangling between Mr. Baker and the experience he desires and players that he knows vs the GM and his cronies over players that they have traded for, keeping them and of course the dollar factors. So I am running into a blank wall and my own biases against Miles, Cairo, Burke, Balentien, Nix, Janish, and Sutton. Thinking that Miles, Cairo and Burke should have retired, and that Nix, Balentien, Janish and Sutton belong in the minors. I want to say that they will keep those with the greater MLB experience and send down those with options, but I don't trust that thought.

Plus I think there is an outside chance that Jay Bruce is on a short rope this year if he doesn't hit. I don't think WJ or DB will be comfortable with him struggling like he did in the past two seasons, again.

We know they will want defensive backups for the infield, players for double switches and of course pinch hitting.

Side note irrelevant to this discussion:
I am still suspicious on Woods and Leak too. I think that either Owings or Maloney will be used for the fifth starter and that Woods and Leak along with Chapman will be sent to the minors for the various reasons that RZ posters have said about contracts, arb, length of service etc. and of course the experience that each and Mr. Baker keeps alluding too in the press. I don’t think that we can argue that experience is a bad thing for them to get, or for the Reds executives to be prudent.

Will M
03-27-2010, 09:33 PM
Hanigan

Janish for late inning defense

Sutton fills in when Votto, Phillips or Rolen need a day off

Dickerson

Balentien. better offensively & more upside than Nix (who goes to AAA for insurance)

Degenerate39
03-27-2010, 10:42 PM
Bench:

Hanigan (Catcher)
Balentien (Outfield)
Dickerson (Outfield)
Janish (Infield)
Fransisco (1st, 3rd, LF)
Owings (Pinch hitter)

mth123
03-28-2010, 01:13 AM
Hanigan

Janish for late inning defense

Sutton fills in when Votto, Phillips or Rolen need a day off

Dickerson

Balentien. better offensively & more upside than Nix (who goes to AAA for insurance)

That's my pick too since Janish won a job with a good spring. Generally, I don't like guys like Janish on the bench. His value is that he can play SS everyday w/o killing the pitching staff. If he doesn't play every day, I don't see much purpose. If Cabrera requires a late inning defensive replacement at SS, then I'd just as soon he wasn't on the team. I just don't think SS or 2B is a spot where a guy should need a late inning defensive replacement. Guys like Janish should be stashed in AAA and called up if the starter gets hurt. In the mean time, make way for a bat. W/O spring I'd have been in favor of Nix as the last guy, but Janish has done all that has been asked of him and I think it would create problems if he didn't make the team.

Guacarock
03-28-2010, 04:52 AM
My picks:

HANIGAN -- A no brainer. His defense is solid, his OBP consistently high. Wish he'd deliver more RBI in the clutch, but I don't see his competition (Miller, Castillo) challenging him behind the plate or at the plate.

DICKERSON -- Plus defense, speed, high OBP, versatility make him an ideal 4th outfielder. His value is enhanced given the lack of lefties among the Reds' starting positional players. On the down side, he hasn't demonstrated much power for awhile and perhaps won't in the future owing to his string of nagging injuries.

BALENTIEN -- Normally, you want your fifth outfielder to be a veteran and plate specialist who can sit on the bench for a week or two, then come in after all that down time and whack a home run to put you ahead in a game you trail or comfortably pad your margin of victory in a tight game. Nix fits that definition more closely than Balentien. Still, I prefer Balentien for the last OF slot. The reason: Wlad's got power, but he's also garnered a .352 OBP since we picked him up from Seattle. Nix's .OBP was .291 last season, .277 for his career and .267 so far this spring. Seems to me like Nix can be comfortably stashed at Louisville, but if we attempt to send Balentien down via the waiver wire, we'll lose him. Not a risk worth taking. Not for a team like the Reds that still collectively hits more long balls than the average squad, but remains severely OBP-challenged.

JANISH -- Too soon to give up on a guy who flashed enough leather to rank among MLB's best-fielding SS last season, especially for a team like the Reds that's building its pitching staff and reorienting from offense to defense. Janish looked punch and judy with the bat in 2009, but he's leading the team with a 1.124 OPS this spring, including 2 HR and 6 RBI in 23 AB. Admittedly, an extremely limited statistical sample, but it seems like he's rising to the challenge of the Reds signing Cabrera, and serving notice he intends to compete and prove he's a legitimate starting SS. Concepcion took awhile to gel, so I wouldn't rule Janish out. There's not much harm in carrying him as long as he's improving, costing the minimum, and we have no better MI bench options. Miles, Cairo and Burke certainly haven't wrested the job away from him this spring.

SUTTON, MILES or FRANCISCO -- If you ask me, this is the only bench position that's still subject to debate or could still be determined over the next week. The Reds are on the hook to $2.7 million to Miles, so it was his job to lose. He's proceeded to lose it this spring. The finger jam was a legitimate excuse for a slow start out of the gate, but enough time has elapsed that he should have begun to hit or field better. He hasn't shown any signs of turning the corner.

If I was GM, now's the time I'd be weighing the idea of sending Miles to Louisville on a short-term rehab assignment, and giving Sutton or Francisco the green light to go north. If we lose Cairo or Burke in the shuffle, so be it. Personally, I'd give the nod to Sutton over Francisco. Sutton won't hit as many HR, but his OBP will be higher and he can switch out to more positions. Besides, Francisco looks promising enough that I wouldn't want him languishing as the 25th man on the bench. I'd rather see him in Louisville nailing down a defensive position he could play daily and refining his strike zone so pitchers don't have an easy exploit against his enormous power.

In sum, my bench would be Hanigan, Dickerson, Balentien, Janish and Sutton. My short list of candidates at Louisville on call to come north in the event of injury, inadequate individual performance or an overarching need for change to spark a flagging team would include Nix, Francisco, Miles and Miller, not necessarily in that order.

nate
03-28-2010, 09:27 AM
Wlad
Gomes
Janish
Hanigan
Miles

OnBaseMachine
03-28-2010, 12:54 PM
Ryan Hanigan
Jonny Gomes
Wladimir Balentien
Paul Janish
Drew Sutton

Caveat Emperor
03-28-2010, 04:04 PM
Worth noting -- Micah Owings in the BP reduces the need to carry an extra bat on the bench.

Spring~Fields
04-03-2010, 01:27 AM
I'm assuming Gomes and Stubbs are starting outfielders. What is the Reds five man bench? Even if you think Dickerson beats out or platoons with Gomes, same basic exercise.

Here's one view, and I'll include Dickerson on the list of five:

Balentien
Dickerson
Francisco
Janish
Hanigan


Provides good lefty/righty balance. Starting team lacks lefty bats, two on bench.

With Janish on the bench, don't really need a Miles, Sutton, or Cairo.

Francisco can spell Rolen and play some left field. He's having another good stretch this spring, maybe Reds add his power off the bench right now.

Balentien provides the punch off the bench from the right side.

And, as said, Dickerson is a fourth outfielder who will play often.

This bench would have some sock and versatility. I kind of like it. Would require eating Miles' contract, cutting Nix, and leaving Sutton at AAA as the next callup when someone gets injured on the team.

Fire away.

It looks like you were pretty close and in line with their thinking.

Good Job.

Kc61
04-03-2010, 10:37 AM
Like most of us, I missed Nix over Balentien. Wlad hit well this spring, so many of us got on the bandwagon for him. For those who picked Nix, good job on that.

I think the Reds wanted Nix's lefty bat and ability to play all three outfield positions. They obviously don't see Wlad as part of the future.

Don't know if anyone picked Cairo. That was a real surprise.

Will M
04-03-2010, 03:24 PM
Worth noting -- Micah Owings in the BP reduces the need to carry an extra bat on the bench.

Owings had a grand total of one at bat this spring. I think this is odd considering his OPS+ of 109 last year & the fact that we all thought he would do some pinch hitting this year. How is he going to be ready to hit when he hasn't done it all spring?

OnBaseMachine
05-18-2010, 01:21 PM
Anyone else think the Reds need to improve their bench? Miguel Cairo needs to go, IMO. When Scott Rolen or Joey Votto need a day off, who plays first or third? Paul Janish or Miguel Cairo. That's too much of a drop off. It would be nice to have a Felipe Lopez type of player to use off the bench, or maybe a Russell Branyan. One of the keys to the 1999 team being so good was a great bench. That team could rest a starter and have a formidable backup in place. For now, I would DFA Cairo and call up Chris Valaika until I could find a better option.

If the Indians decide to start trading players, I would inquire about Russell Branyan.

Kc61
05-18-2010, 01:31 PM
Anyone else think the Reds need to improve their bench? Miguel Cairo needs to go, IMO. When Scott Rolen or Joey Votto need a day off, who plays first or third? Paul Janish or Miguel Cairo. That's too much of a drop off. It would be nice to have a Felipe Lopez type of player to use off the bench, or maybe a Russell Branyan. One of the keys to the 1999 team being so good was a great bench. That team could rest a starter and have a formidable backup in place. For now, I would DFA Cairo and call up Chris Valaika until I could find a better option.

If the Indians decide to start trading players, I would inquire about Russell Branyan.

I think the Cairo spot could be improved but I would like a lefty or switch hitter. Team is short on lefty hitting. A switch hitter on the bench is always an advantage.

If they get somebody, IMO he should be able to play some third base. If Rolen should wear down over the season, I'd like to see somebody who can hit well be available to take his spot at third.

flyer85
05-18-2010, 01:33 PM
Francisco needs to play ... in AAA.

Guacarock
05-18-2010, 03:36 PM
The Astros' Geoff Blum is the bench player I'd like to see us acquire to spell Rolen and Votto. Blum is a switch-hitter, plays both 3B and 1B, has a little pop and a high OBP. He doesn't steal bases, but on every other count, he would be a quantum improvement over Cairo.

Branyan has power from the left side, but questionable defense and durability, and doesn't get on base enough to my liking.

Sutton is even more versatile than Blum or Branyan, and he's already in our system, so he's another valid option. But he needs to step up his level of play at AAA before giving him another look-see for our bench. His current .628 OPS isn't a ringing endorsement that he would be any more likely than Cairo to perform in the clutch.

Will M
05-18-2010, 04:08 PM
Anyone else think the Reds need to improve their bench? Miguel Cairo needs to go, IMO. When Scott Rolen or Joey Votto need a day off, who plays first or third? Paul Janish or Miguel Cairo. That's too much of a drop off. It would be nice to have a Felipe Lopez type of player to use off the bench, or maybe a Russell Branyan. One of the keys to the 1999 team being so good was a great bench. That team could rest a starter and have a formidable backup in place. For now, I would DFA Cairo and call up Chris Valaika until I could find a better option.

If the Indians decide to start trading players, I would inquire about Russell Branyan.

You are preaching to the choir. I have been harping on this exact issue for 2 months. The Reds need a Felipe Lopez/Mark DeRosa type player. somebody who can hit a little. play 2b/3b. maybe even fill in for Votto at 1b.
even a guy who was a poor man's version of Felipe Lopez/Mark DeRosa would be an improvement for the team.

bucksfan2
05-18-2010, 04:12 PM
You are preaching to the choir. I have been harping on this exact issue for 2 months. The Reds need a Felipe Lopez/Mark DeRosa type player. somebody who can hit a little. play 2b/3b. maybe even fill in for Votto at 1b.
even a guy who was a poor man's version of Felipe Lopez/Mark DeRosa would be an improvement for the team.

Felipe Lopez would have been a nice addition over this past off season. He signed with StL for roughly $1M. While I think DeRosa would be a nice player to have on the Reds, hes signed for 2 years $12M. Thats a little steep for a platoon/utility type player.

Will M
05-18-2010, 04:24 PM
Felipe Lopez would have been a nice addition over this past off season. He signed with StL for roughly $1M. While I think DeRosa would be a nice player to have on the Reds, hes signed for 2 years $12M. Thats a little steep for a platoon/utility type player.

i never advocated getting DeRosa. i am simply using these guys as examples of the type of player the Reds need. a player with a skill set similar to these two players.

HokieRed
05-18-2010, 04:30 PM
These jobs are just sitting there waiting for Drew Sutton, Chris Valaika, or Todd Frazier to claim them. An interesting question to me is whether Chris Dickerson makes it back onto the roster at all. If we keep Heisey as a second guy capable of playing center, it seems to me a lot of Dickerson's claim is gone. That fifth outfielder spot is going to be pretty much strictly a pinch-hitting role and then, if that's the case, is CD better than Nix, Francisco, Alonso, Dorn, even Terrero--not to mention a guy still possibly to be acquired?

bucksfan2
05-18-2010, 05:46 PM
i never advocated getting DeRosa. i am simply using these guys as examples of the type of player the Reds need. a player with a skill set similar to these two players.

I am fully in agreement that the Reds could really use a guy with a skill set of DeRosa or Lopez. I was just pointing out that contractually those guys often don't fit.

Will M
05-18-2010, 05:54 PM
I am fully in agreement that the Reds could really use a guy with a skill set of DeRosa or Lopez. I was just pointing out that contractually those guys often don't fit.

ok. i see your point.

i think Walt planned to use Sutton or even Frazier in this role. however both are playing poorly in AAA. its possible that if Valaika continues to play well in AAA that he could be an infield supersub in the 2nd half of the season. its also possible Frazier gets it going. i've pretty much given up on Sutton.

buckeyenut
05-18-2010, 07:22 PM
When he is healthy, I think Dickerson has to be on the roster. ++ defender with great OBP. If he is hurt you DL him, if not, you keep him.

The guy I really want for the bench is Gordon from KC. Bring him over him a bench role, get him 3-400 ABs at 1B, 3B and LF and see how he does. He hopefully is good enough to ease into Rolen's 3B job when he is done.

mth123
05-18-2010, 10:03 PM
The Astros' Geoff Blum is the bench player I'd like to see us acquire to spell Rolen and Votto. Blum is a switch-hitter, plays both 3B and 1B, has a little pop and a high OBP. He doesn't steal bases, but on every other count, he would be a quantum improvement over Cairo.

Branyan has power from the left side, but questionable defense and durability, and doesn't get on base enough to my liking.

Sutton is even more versatile than Blum or Branyan, and he's already in our system, so he's another valid option. But he needs to step up his level of play at AAA before giving him another look-see for our bench. His current .628 OPS isn't a ringing endorsement that he would be any more likely than Cairo to perform in the clutch.

Love the idea of Blum and he shouldn't take a lot to acquire. Somebody like Lecure probably gets him.

HokieRed
05-19-2010, 09:26 AM
Not sure a Lecure converted to the bullpen doesn't have a lot more value to the team than the difference between Blum and Valaika.

mth123
05-19-2010, 08:51 PM
Not sure a Lecure converted to the bullpen doesn't have a lot more value to the team than the difference between Blum and Valaika.

The Reds need a lefty hitter who can spell Rolen and the still splitty Phillips and get a hit off the bench. The Reds have Castillo and Sutton, but Valaika doesn't qualify. Besides, I think the Reds need to see a full season day-in day-out of Valaika at 2B. I've heard he's better than Frazier but still pretty iffy there. I'd like to know more about whether he's another supersub type (as I've suspected since his stint in Hawaii) or if he has the goods to play 2B every day defensively.

I don't see Lecure having a spot on the roster, but he is just a "for instance." The point is that it wouldn't require a package of guys or even anyone in the top 15 prospects of the organization.

Will M
05-19-2010, 09:45 PM
it would seem to me that with Valaika's 2009 stumbles a full season at AAA would be in order. then ease him into the bigs in 2011. its certainly possible with Phillip's escalating salary he could be at 2B circa 2012. i suspect its too soon for him to come to Cincinnati & it could delay his development sitting on the bench here vs playing everyday in AAA.

i think Walt should go outside the organization to get the lefty hitting 2B/3B player mth mentions. i just don't see anyone in AAA ready right now. its a minor miracle Rolen has held up so well. we have ~75% of the season left. Cairo or some AAA player not quite ready for the bigs is not the solution.
Blum has been mentioned. Wiggington has been mentioned. I'm sure there are other guys out there that would fit the job description.

everybody is going crazy with the Lee/Greinke/Ramirez talk but I'm not sure Walt would cough up the $1M needed to pay the rest of Blum's 2010 salary.

HokieRed
05-20-2010, 12:33 AM
Blum's 37, has a lifetime .698 OPS and almost exactly that figure so far this year, and his OBP lifetime is, IIRC, like .311. Sutton's been a lot better in May than April, OPS, again IIRC, .804. I just don't see that Blum does much for us.

mth123
05-20-2010, 05:33 AM
Blum's 37, has a lifetime .698 OPS and almost exactly that figure so far this year, and his OBP lifetime is, IIRC, like .311. Sutton's been a lot better in May than April, OPS, again IIRC, .804. I just don't see that Blum does much for us.

Maybe you're right, but Sutton seems to be buried. I wouldn't mind seeing him get another shot, but he's a big drop-off defensively from Rolen and Phillips. I kind of agree as I look at it that Blum may not be enough of an upgrade to be worth much more than a PTBNL or a low level non-prospect.