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View Full Version : Bernie Carbo was high during 75 WS



GoReds
04-01-2010, 09:34 AM
Here's the link:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/red-sox-bernie-carbo-was-as-high-as-a-kite-during-the-75-series.html.php

This is the part that disturbs me the most:


"Not that he didn't have some help. He had a horrible childhood, was abused by a relative and had a father who was never there. Carbo says that as soon as he came up with the Reds, team trainers supplied him with amphetamines -- calling them vitamins -- and said that he more or less had to take them. He was soon hooked, and from there moved on to pain pills, sleeping pills cocaine and just about everything else you can imagine."

westofyou
04-01-2010, 09:44 AM
Carbo was a mess, a big ole mess. The Reds might have contributed to it, Bernie however lived in the fast track all through the 70's lifestyle wise.

GADawg
04-01-2010, 09:53 AM
damn another Hall of Fame dream dashed

Blitz Dorsey
04-01-2010, 11:10 AM
Man, before my time. Tell me more about Bernie Carbo gentlemen. I'm sure I could look him up on Wiki (and I have heard of him of course) but I would rather hear your first-hand tales.

oneupper
04-01-2010, 11:14 AM
Bernie Carbo. Drafted BEFORE Johnny Bench.

GADawg
04-01-2010, 11:29 AM
Bernie Carbo. Drafted BEFORE Johnny Bench.

I wonder how many women he got using that very line?

Strikes Out Looking
04-01-2010, 11:41 AM
The Book, Game Six, goes into detail on Bernie Carbo and his demons. I highly recommend it.

westofyou
04-01-2010, 12:04 PM
The Book, Game Six, goes into detail on Bernie Carbo and his demons. I highly recommend it.

Yep, party boy Bernie

RichRed
04-01-2010, 12:11 PM
Carbo loaded.

RedFanAlways1966
04-01-2010, 12:20 PM
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/81346167.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA5488EF010F9CCA6F7E1 55578FF9200C7A00F213B0402BF4FE6B

My 1st thought when I see Bernie Carbo's name is that scene from the 1970 World Series. A bit before my time, but one that I have seen and read about many times. Worst umpiring position and call... ever!

On the topic at hand here... I'd assume there were many-many MLB players that played high in that era. And they were supplied by the team. Just a guess.

George Anderson
04-01-2010, 01:28 PM
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/81346167.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA5488EF010F9CCA6F7E1 55578FF9200C7A00F213B0402BF4FE6B

My 1st thought when I see Bernie Carbo's name is that scene from the 1970 World Series. A bit before my time, but one that I have seen and read about many times. Worst umpiring position and call... ever!

On the topic at hand here... I'd assume there were many-many MLB players that played high in that era. And they were supplied by the team. Just a guess.

Oh the HP Umpires positioning on that is atrocious.

Todays umps have their issues but you won't see todays umpires make a boneheaded positioning mistake like that nowadays.

dfs
04-01-2010, 01:37 PM
Oh the HP Umpires positioning on that is atrocious.

Todays umps have their issues but you won't see todays umpires make a boneheaded positioning mistake like that nowadays.

Selig catches a load of crow from fans about how he's treated the games, but he sure has cleaned up umpiring. In ten years it will be impossible to explain to new fans just how bad and how contentious umpires used to be.

gm
04-01-2010, 03:26 PM
Oh the HP Umpires positioning on that is atrocious.

The audio of Sparky on that play was classic

"THERE'S NO WAY POSSIBLE YOU SAW THAT PLAY"

"NO WAY POSSIBLE!"

George Anderson
04-01-2010, 03:38 PM
The audio of Sparky on that play was classic

"THERE'S NO WAY POSSIBLE YOU SAW THAT PLAY"

"NO WAY POSSIBLE!"

I watched a replay of the game one night on MLB and I couldn't begin to understand why the umpire Ken Burkhardt got in the position he did. Get back behind the plate a good ten feet and not only will you see the play better but you wont interfere with the play.

Anyone who thinks the umpiring today is worse than ever really needs to watch some of the old games played 30-40 years ago and see first hand just how much better umpiring is today.

westofyou
04-01-2010, 03:52 PM
Bernie Carbo. Drafted BEFORE Johnny Bench.

So was Gene LaMont, Ray Fosse and another catcher... Ken Plesha

macro
04-01-2010, 04:00 PM
I watched that same game a few months ago, and what amazed me was how the announcers didn't really seem to grasp the historical significance of what they had just seen. I'm sure they had no idea the play would be discussed 40 years later.

Hoosier Red
04-01-2010, 04:04 PM
I watched that same game a few months ago, and what amazed me was how the announcers didn't really seem to grasp the historical significance of what they had just seen. I'm sure they had no idea the play would be discussed 40 years later.

It's not. Well outside of Cincinnati. :)

westofyou
04-01-2010, 04:22 PM
It's not. Well outside of Cincinnati. :)

Exactly, how many folks in the Midwest still wring their hands over Schwabs hosing of the IF during the 62 playoff game between LA and the Giants at Candlestick?

gm
04-01-2010, 04:27 PM
How many folks outside of Beantown are still discussing the Fisk-Armbrister play?

George Anderson
04-01-2010, 04:35 PM
The umpire Ken Burkhart actually played MLB for our beloved Redlegs in 1948-49. He was the last MLB umpire who also played MLB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Burkhart

westofyou
04-01-2010, 04:39 PM
The umpire Ken Burkhart actually played MLB for our beloved Redlegs in 1948-49. He was the last MLB umpire who also played MLB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Burkhart

Name the two guys to Umpire/Play/Manage in MLB

George Anderson
04-01-2010, 04:40 PM
Name the two guys to Umpire/Play/Manage in MLB

Without looking...notta clue.

dfs
04-01-2010, 05:32 PM
Man, before my time. Tell me more about Bernie Carbo gentlemen. I'm sure I could look him up on Wiki (and I have heard of him of course) but I would rather hear your first-hand tales.

Carbo was drafted before Bench. Often cited as a "mistake draft." I think it points out the pure variability of draft choices. You can know what you're doing and still end up with a first rounder that gets outplayed by your second rounder.

He actually played well as a red, winning (and deserving) rookie of the year in 1970 in 467 plate appearances. He never played that much (or that well) again and that's what leads to the dissapointment stories.

Really he was a very good part time player his whole career. He just couldn't stay in the lineup and the drugs may well be part of that. While the numbers don't look great by today's standards, once you adjust for era he was good hitter.

With Rose and Tolan and Geronimo and Foster and McRae....the reds didn't have a whole lot of playing time in the outfield.

Instead of being traded for pitching or anything they needed, they traded him for a 28 year old first baseman who couldn't hit. (Joe Hague whom I have no memory of whatsover) I'm guessing that between injuries/drugs/pt the reds wanted more to get rid of Bernie than to get Joe Hague, but I'm guessing.

Carbo had a couple of very good years as a part time player with the Red Sox. He came up huge in the 75 series playing for the Red Sox against the Reds.

He ended up with a 12 year career. split over 6 teams. He spent the most time with the Sox, the Cards and then the Reds.

He and Rick Wise pried Reggie Smith from the Sox.
He and George Scott brought Cecil Cooper to the Brewers.
He wasn't a terrible player, but Reds fans from those times were so spoiled that Carbo was cast in a poor light.

Always Red
04-01-2010, 07:41 PM
http://books.google.com/books?id=DW1FqocuJRYC&pg=PA37&lpg=PA37&dq=sparky+and+carbo&source=bl&ots=zTEenld4Lg&sig=-01k_wbL9L_iojrun1UzX2C5KKg&hl=en&ei=qii1S9m5BMH88Aa3h5Fd&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CB4Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=sparky%20and%20carbo&f=false

Sparky managed Carbo in the minors, in the Reds system; he rehabilitated him, actually. He was a goof (his nickname was "The Idiot"), Sparky got him turned around, and then brought him to Cincinnati with him when he got the job with the Reds- in fact, he let Alex Johnson go so Bernie could play (Carbo platooned with Hal McRae in 1970). The excerpt above, from "The Long Ball: the Summer of 1975" explains it all very well.

Sparky's family, his sons especially, idolized Bernie Carbo- the family called him "Bernardo." Carbo was a bridge in the Anderson family between Sparky and his own sons, whom he had problems getting along with in the early 70's.

Carbo's drug use didn't start with his exposure to amphetamines while a member of the Reds:


"I was a drug addict and alcoholic for 28 years," Carbo told The Sporting News' Andy Clendennen in a 2001 interview. "I started drinking when I was about 16 or 17, started on marijuana when I was 21, did cocaine when I was 22 or 23, and got into crystal meth, Dexedrines, Benzedrines, Darvons, codeine. There wasn't much that I didn't do."

Carbo held an enormous grudge against Anderson when he was traded to the Cards early in the '72 season (after holding our prior to both the 1971 and 1972 seasons), and held it for a very long time. Eventually the men made up, on the field, just prior to the start of the '75 series. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1798&dat=19751014&id=1xYfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=WI0EAAAAIBAJ&pg=5926,2817400

Here's a great black and white of Sparky arguing that famous play at home plate in the 6th inning of game 1 of the 1970 World Series:

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/67/65A11095-0725-4832-893A-C04231CC9CD8/U1683648.jpg

Blitz Dorsey
04-01-2010, 07:44 PM
Thanks dfs and Always Red!

klw
04-01-2010, 10:01 PM
[

Here's a great black and white of Sparky arguing that famous play at home plate in the 6th inning of game 1 of the 1970 World Series:

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/67/65A11095-0725-4832-893A-C04231CC9CD8/U1683648.jpg

Martin Sheen looking rough in his umpire outfit.

Always Red
04-02-2010, 05:28 PM
http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2010/04/01/carbo2__1270114348_3918/539w.jpg

This is a great article- and how timely- it came out yesterday. Bernie Carbo was one of my boyhood hero's; I was 9 years old when he was a rookie for the BRM, and I lived and died with every single pitch. I'm very happy that Bernardo has turned his life around...


http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2010/04/01/cleaned_up_hitter/?page=full




“When I first met [Red Sox owner] Mr. Yawkey, he was shining shoes in the clubhouse,’’ said Carbo, “and I went up to him and gave him $20 and told him to get me a cheeseburger and fries.’’

cincinnati chili
04-03-2010, 12:50 AM
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/gallery/03_18_10_bernie_carbo?pg=2

Thank you Bernie for providing me with my new signature line.

"I probably smoked two joints, drank about three or four beers, got to the ballpark took some Dexedrine and Benzedrine, took a pain pill, drank a cup of coffee, chewed some tobacco, had a cigarette and got up to the plate and hit."

TheNext44
04-03-2010, 02:56 AM
http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/81346167.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA5488EF010F9CCA6F7E1 55578FF9200C7A00F213B0402BF4FE6B

My 1st thought when I see Bernie Carbo's name is that scene from the 1970 World Series. A bit before my time, but one that I have seen and read about many times. Worst umpiring position and call... ever!

On the topic at hand here... I'd assume there were many-many MLB players that played high in that era. And they were supplied by the team. Just a guess.

One of the greatest Ump calls in the game ever, because...

Burkhart never saw the play...
Hendricks tagged Carbo with his glove, but the ball was in his other hand...
Carbo never touched home plate, even though he stomped around it, arguing over the call.

So, in the end, Burkhart kinda got it right, since Carbo went back to the dugout without touching home, so he was out then.

cincinnati chili
04-03-2010, 11:37 AM
One of the greatest Ump calls in the game ever, because...

Burkhart never saw the play...
Hendricks tagged Carbo with his glove, but the ball was in his other hand...
Carbo never touched home plate, even though he stomped around it, arguing over the call.

So, in the end, Burkhart kinda got it right, since Carbo went back to the dugout without touching home, so he was out then.

What I like about this picture is the CF in the distant background (Paul Blair, maybe?). Hoe hum. He might as well be picking daisies rather than watching a world series game.