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NastyBoy
04-04-2010, 02:52 AM
So we had our fantasy draft the other day and it was an auto draft. I ranked my draft order out to 250 in a 11 team league and just about sh*t a brick when I saw my pitching staff. This is freakin ridiculous.

Zack Greinke
Roy Halliday
Tim Lincecum
Chris Carpenter
Dan Haren
Andrew Bailey
Mariano Rivera
Ryan Franklin
David Aardsma

redsfandan
04-04-2010, 04:43 AM
Pretty good. Now how's the rest of your team look?

Razor Shines
04-04-2010, 04:46 AM
Are you also the owner of the other 10 teams in the league?

Eric_the_Red
04-04-2010, 09:58 AM
Your starters are great no doubt, but after Rivera your bullpen is shaky. Aardsma and Franklin are both due for a big let-down, and might lose their closer jobs, and Bailey is hurt.

I'd like to see what type of offense you managed to get as well.

Redsnake
04-04-2010, 03:00 PM
Clearly you are the best pitching team in your league, even without seeing the other teams rosters.

However, with such great pitching your hitting has too be bottom 10-11.

Can we see your hitters?

TRF
04-04-2010, 10:45 PM
I beg to differ.... My pitching staff

Roy Halladay
Justin Verlander
Johan Santana
Johnny Cueto
Max Scherzer
Aaron Harang
Phil Hughes
Mariano Rivera
Francisco Cordero
Heath Bell
Jon Rauch

Brutus
04-04-2010, 11:49 PM
I beg to differ.... My pitching staff

Roy Halladay
Justin Verlander
Johan Santana
Johnny Cueto
Max Scherzer
Aaron Harang
Phil Hughes
Mariano Rivera
Francisco Cordero
Heath Bell
Jon Rauch

I like the original poster's better. :thumbup:

Dom Heffner
04-05-2010, 10:43 AM
We had a guy who autodrafted the best pitching staff ever last year.

He came in dead last.

Brutus
04-05-2010, 11:54 AM
We had a guy who autodrafted the best pitching staff ever last year.

He came in dead last.

That's usually how it works.

Best staff ever means worst offense ever. Since pitching is so fragile and unpredictable, you're better off having best offense ever.

TRF
04-05-2010, 03:43 PM
I like the original poster's better. :thumbup:


In a traditional 5x5, i'd destroy him.

Brutus
04-05-2010, 05:29 PM
In a traditional 5x5, i'd destroy him.

lol i'm not seeing it at all

redsfandan
04-05-2010, 05:41 PM
I don't see it either TRF.

TRF
04-05-2010, 05:45 PM
His pen is a huge question mark. My top three starters against his might be a wash And Scherzer and Hughes are going to open some eyes. I like my staff much better.

TRF
04-05-2010, 05:52 PM
Plus I got a little offense too...

C Matt Wieters
C Geovany Soto
1B Mark Reynolds
1B Joey Votto
2B Casey McGehee
2B Ian Desmond
3B Adrian Beltre
3B David Freese
SS Asdrubal Cabrera
SS Alcides Escobar
OF Jay Bruce
OF Brad Hawpe
OF Julio Borbon
OF Rajai Davis
OF Jason Heyward
BN Seth Smith
BN Clint Barmes
BN Austin Jackson
BN Russell Branyan

I'm taking a chance on Desmond, Freese, Jackson and Escobar. counting on a bounceback from Beltre, but some good young talent. wish it were a dynasty league.

Brutus
04-05-2010, 06:12 PM
I still like his pitching better.

redsfandan
04-05-2010, 06:19 PM
His pen is a huge question mark. My top three starters against his might be a wash And Scherzer and Hughes are going to open some eyes. I like my staff much better.
That's fine TRF. You should like your team. But this is the way I look at it. The first thing you question is his pen. And, I'll agree, yours is better. But, do you really think that all of his closers will fall by the wayside?

Imo, how good a pitching staff depends mostly on the top 5 starting pitchers and then the bullpen and starting pitching depth. I know I'm in one league with you TRF. And your bullpen would beat mine in that league too. But here are my starting pitchers in the league that you and I are both in:

Zack Grienke,
Dan Haren,
Yovani Gallardo,
Clayton Kershaw,

David Price,
Clay Buchholz,
Wade Davis,
Homer Bailey,
Matt Latos,
Derek Holland,
Martin Perez
(plus Kazmir and Bedard on the DL)

So, I've, arguably, got 4 aces and some pretty good depth. You've got 3 guys that could be considered aces right now:

Roy Halladay
Justin Verlander
Johan Santana

plus some nice depth...

Johnny Cueto
Max Scherzer
Aaron Harang
Phil Hughes

but noone (outside of the first 3) that could be considered an ace right now. NastyBoy has FIVE aces. I don't know about his depth but with some luck he might only need those 5 guys. 5 aces beats 4 aces and it beats 3 aces. And I don't think the difference between the bullpens is enough to make up the difference. You've got a nice pitching staff TRF, and it's possible that Hughes and Scherzer could open some eyes, but if we were to take a poll I think most would rather have his pitchers right now.

Plus I got a little offense too...

C Matt Wieters
C Geovany Soto
1B Mark Reynolds
1B Joey Votto
2B Casey McGehee
2B Ian Desmond
3B Adrian Beltre
3B David Freese
SS Asdrubal Cabrera
SS Alcides Escobar
OF Jay Bruce
OF Brad Hawpe
OF Julio Borbon
OF Rajai Davis
OF Jason Heyward
BN Seth Smith
BN Clint Barmes
BN Austin Jackson
BN Russell Branyan

I'm taking a chance on Desmond, Freese, Jackson and Escobar. counting on a bounceback from Beltre, but some good young talent. wish it were a dynasty league.
I just had to underline the word 'little'. ;)

Outside of your catchers and corner infielders your offense isn't that great for a redraft league. Format is important though and I'd like your offense more in a dynasty.

TRF
04-05-2010, 08:00 PM
with the offense, I'm taking a few flyers, true. Still like my overall pitching staff better. My pen is better top to bottom, and my depth makes up for the possibility that one of his starters goes on the DL.

nmculbreth
04-05-2010, 08:17 PM
Lets compare the two rotations side by side:

Roy Halladay vs. Roy Halladay - Push.
Tim Lincecum vs. Justin Verlander - Lincecum by a wide margin.
Zack Greinke vs. Johan Santana - Greinke.
Dan Haren vs. Max Scherzer - Haren by a wide margin.
Chris Carpenter vs. Phil Hughes - Carpenter by an even wider margin.

Mariano Rivera vs. Mariano Rivera - Push.
Andrew Bailey vs. Heath Bell - Push. Bailey has some injury risk, Bell may end up getting traded.
Ryan Franklin vs. Francisco Cordero - Cordero.
David Aardsma vs. Jon Rauch - Aardsma.

Despite the added "depth" provided by Harang and Cueto, I'm not sure how this is even a debate...

Gamble
04-05-2010, 10:11 PM
Lets compare the two rotations side by side:

Roy Halladay vs. Roy Halladay - Push.
Tim Lincecum vs. Justin Verlander - Lincecum by a wide margin.
Zack Greinke vs. Johan Santana - Greinke.
Dan Haren vs. Max Scherzer - Haren by a wide margin.
Chris Carpenter vs. Phil Hughes - Carpenter by an even wider margin.

Mariano Rivera vs. Mariano Rivera - Push.
Andrew Bailey vs. Heath Bell - Push. Bailey has some injury risk, Bell may end up getting traded.
Ryan Franklin vs. Francisco Cordero - Cordero.
David Aardsma vs. Jon Rauch - Aardsma.

Despite the added "depth" provided by Harang and Cueto, I'm not sure how this is even a debate...

Personally I would give the nod to Bell over Bailey.

TRF
04-06-2010, 11:09 AM
I don't think Lincecum over Verlander is a wide margin. You could make the argument that they were quite comparable last year.

A health Santana, in the NL will post better numbers than Greinke.

Haren is a beast. So underrated. This is the first year I don't have him on a roster. Worst Jocketty trade ever. But Hughes and Scherzer while mostly potential at the moment can equal him. Both are high upside pitchers. Haren is the sure thing. I'm counting on a major step forward, especially from Hughes. Look at his 2009 numbers. He turned a corner big time.

I'm waiting for Carpenter's arm to fall off. Should happen any day now. In fact, I'm still trying to figure out how this completely average pitcher in the AL has become such a dominant presence in the NL.

I hate Chris Carpenter. I do like the X-Files though. :)

IowaRed
04-06-2010, 11:11 AM
I see these "check out my team" posts on various websites and usually get a good laugh. I would love to have the thread starter's staff but until the rest of his team is posted, it's irrelevant. Just about anybody can draft a very good pitching staff, obviously drafting a very good, balanced, team in a quality league, is the challenge. If he had an outstanding (or even decent) offense as well, he would have posted it.

nmculbreth
04-06-2010, 05:15 PM
I don't think Lincecum over Verlander is a wide margin. You could make the argument that they were quite comparable last year.

A health Santana, in the NL will post better numbers than Greinke.

Haren is a beast. So underrated. This is the first year I don't have him on a roster. Worst Jocketty trade ever. But Hughes and Scherzer while mostly potential at the moment can equal him. Both are high upside pitchers. Haren is the sure thing. I'm counting on a major step forward, especially from Hughes. Look at his 2009 numbers. He turned a corner big time.

I'm waiting for Carpenter's arm to fall off. Should happen any day now. In fact, I'm still trying to figure out how this completely average pitcher in the AL has become such a dominant presence in the NL.

I hate Chris Carpenter. I do like the X-Files though. :)

Verlander was great last season and is a legitimate top ten fantasy starting pitcher, but he's not in the same class as Lincecum. Compare their numbers from last season:

Lincecum - 2.48 ERA, 1.05 WHIP, 261 K, 10.42 K/9, 2.34 FIP
Verlander - 3.45 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 269 K, 10.09 K/9, 2.80 FIP

They're about a wash when it comes to strikeouts but Lincecum decidedly better in every other statistical category.

In regard to Greinke vs Santana, I think Santana's steadily declining K/9 and steadily rising WHIP should be reason for alarm. Look at his three year progression:

2007 - 1.07 WHIP, 9.66 K/9
2008 - 1.15 WHIP, 7.91 K/9
2009 - 1.21 WHIP, 7.88 K/9

It's particularly alarming considering that Santana moved to NL in 2008 and most were predicting a modest bump in his peripherals given that he was moving to an easier league for pitchers. Compare that to Greinke:

2007 - 1.30 WHIP, 7.82 K/9
2008 - 1.28 WHIP, 8.14 K/9
2009 - 1.07 WHIP, 9.50 K/9

Even if Greinke isn't able to match his production from last season, I think he's likely to end up being better than Santana.

TRF
04-06-2010, 05:25 PM
Santana was battling an elbow problem last year. That seems to be fine now. bounceback year for him.

Eric_the_Red
04-06-2010, 05:25 PM
I'm with the majority here, TRF. Your pitching is good, but the OP's is better.

TRF
04-06-2010, 06:01 PM
meh. we shall see. Harang did hurt me yesterday though. Lets see at the end of the year.

TRF
05-11-2010, 05:06 PM
Well, I have adjusted my pitching roster a bit. My top four are Halladay, Santana, Verlander and Hughes. I still have Cueto. I've dropped Harang and Scherzer, and added Cecil, Morrow and Masterson. I could probably drop all three of those guys and just go with my top four and be #1 in this league with my pitching. Hughes has been just sick for me this year.

And my offense has really surprised me. 1st in HR's and RBI, 2nd in OPS and BB's, 3rd in avg.

But I think my top 4 rate pretty well with his top 4.

Brutus
05-12-2010, 07:40 PM
Well, I have adjusted my pitching roster a bit. My top four are Halladay, Santana, Verlander and Hughes. I still have Cueto. I've dropped Harang and Scherzer, and added Cecil, Morrow and Masterson. I could probably drop all three of those guys and just go with my top four and be #1 in this league with my pitching. Hughes has been just sick for me this year.

And my offense has really surprised me. 1st in HR's and RBI, 2nd in OPS and BB's, 3rd in avg.

But I think my top 4 rate pretty well with his top 4.

I think Roy Halladay is better than Roy Halladay.

:thumbup:

TRF
05-13-2010, 11:40 AM
I think Roy Halladay is better than Roy Halladay.

:thumbup:

Only when he pitches against the Mets.

Hughes has been crazy good though. Guess the Yankees made the right choice between him and Joba.

11larkin11
05-13-2010, 01:17 PM
I thought my staff coming into this year was pretty good.

Josh Beckett
Jon Lester
Zach Greinke
Cole Hamels
Josh Johnson

With Jered Weaver and Edwin Jackson as my extras. So far, it has been horrible. Greinke has been good, as has Weaver, but the others...

Eric_the_Red
05-13-2010, 01:43 PM
I thought my staff coming into this year was pretty good.

Josh Beckett
Jon Lester
Zach Greinke
Cole Hamels
Josh Johnson

With Jered Weaver and Edwin Jackson as my extras. So far, it has been horrible. Greinke has been good, as has Weaver, but the others...

Lester has pitched much better of late. After a terrible start, he has rebounded nicely.

redsfandan
05-13-2010, 07:39 PM
I thought my staff coming into this year was pretty good.

Josh Beckett
Jon Lester
Zach Greinke
Cole Hamels
Josh Johnson

With Jered Weaver and Edwin Jackson as my extras. So far, it has been horrible. Greinke has been good, as has Weaver, but the others...
I'd take that rotation. I wouldn't worry too much about that bunch this early in the season.

TRF
07-21-2010, 01:08 PM
bump.

I'm pretty settled on my pitching staff. 6 SP's 4 RP's

Halladay
Santana
Verlander
Hughes
Cueto
Cecil

Closers are Rivera, Bell, Rauch and Cordero. Needless to say, I'm first in saves. :)

I do wish this were a dynasty league. Hughes is nearing his IP limit, and I think he's starting to tire a bit. I can't say enough good things about Johnny Cueto.

But the OP's top 3 best my top three. My pen is better though, so thppt! :)

LoganBuck
07-26-2010, 03:13 PM
I still like my group

Roy Halladay
David Price
CC Sabathiia
Yovanni Gallardo
Matt Cain
Edinson Volquez
Johnathon Sanchez
Joakim Soria
Francisco Rodriguez
Matt Thornton
Hong-Chih Kuo

Our league counts holds.