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Will M
04-04-2010, 03:03 PM
A little mental exercise while we wait for tommorrow. Balentien will be DFAed today. We will have 10 days to trade or release him.

I see a guy who had a nice 1/2 season with the Reds & a nice spring training. Others see a failed prospect who has yet to have any consistent success in the bigs.

From checking the baseball news it seems a couple of teams are looking for outfield help.
1. The Yankees aren't happy with Randy Winn/Marcus Thames/Brett Gardner in LF
2. The Nationals need an outfielder
3. There was a blurb about Nate McClouth being 6 for 51 this spring. With the Braves starting a rookie in RF as well they might be interested in a little outfield depth.

Anybody have any idea of a destination for Balentien & what we might get in return?

reds44
04-04-2010, 03:07 PM
He has no more value than he did when we acquired him, which is none.

klw
04-04-2010, 03:10 PM
Hopefully he will pass through waivers and can go to Louisville. I think he has better value to the Reds there than they will be able to get in return for him at this stage.

Will M
04-04-2010, 03:21 PM
i would be thrilled if he slipped through waivers and went to Lousiville. i actually think that he has upside.

KronoRed
04-04-2010, 03:25 PM
A case of New Coke

dougdirt
04-04-2010, 03:26 PM
He has no more value than he did when we acquired him, which is none.

You really don't think so? Granted it was limited action, but I have to imagine him showing that he can hit in the majors (something he hadn't done previously) upped his value some.

Caveat Emperor
04-04-2010, 03:38 PM
You really don't think so? Granted it was limited action, but I have to imagine him showing that he can hit in the majors (something he hadn't done previously) upped his value some.

He was worth Robert Manuel before -- I imagine his value has to be creeping somewhere close to Brian Shackelford at this point.

dougdirt
04-04-2010, 03:43 PM
He was worth Robert Manuel before -- I imagine his value has to be creeping somewhere close to Brian Shackelford at this point.

So his value did indeed go up then?

TheNext44
04-04-2010, 03:46 PM
The out of options situation severely decreases his value.

1) If a team claims him, the only option for the Reds is to pull him back and put him of the Roster. The claiming team knows the Reds don't want to do that. The Reds might be willing to do that only if the other team offers nothing of value. So the other offers just enough to justify the Reds not putting Wlad back on the Reds.

2) The other team must keep him on the MLB roster, or else experience the same thing. So it narrows down the number of teams that could take him.

reds44
04-04-2010, 06:09 PM
You really don't think so? Granted it was limited action, but I have to imagine him showing that he can hit in the majors (something he hadn't done previously) upped his value some.
Who is he an upgrade over on a major league roster? Somebody brought up Marcus Thames, he's not an upgrade over him. The Nationals? Maybe he's worth a not very good Nationals prospect? The value just isn't there.

If we somehow got him to AAA, that would be the best case.

Will M
04-04-2010, 06:23 PM
Balentien 2010 has some similarities to Brandon Phillips 2006.

In 2006 Phillips was a failed prospect trying to make the Indians as a backup infielder. In 2010 Balentien was a failed prospect trying to make the Reds as a backup outfielder.

The 2006 Indians felt Phillips would not do well in a bench role and kept a veteran for this spot. The 2010 Reds felt Balentien would not do well in a bench role and kept a veteran (Nix) for this spot.

In 2006 Phillips was out of options. He was DFAed & traded to the Reds. The Reds were a bad ballclub who could afford to give Phillips playing time hoping to strike gold. A contending club would not have been able to do this.
If I ran a club like the 2010 Nationals, Pirates or Royals I would be happy to pick up Balentien for free or next to nothing. Make him the everyday player in RF or LF and see what he can do. If he fails you haven't lost much of anything. If he succeeds you have picked up a player for nothing.

I think those who say Balentien is terrible and no one would want him are mistaken. Some terrible team will be willing to give him a chance based on his 2009 1/2 season with the Reds & spring training. they might not give us squat in trade but they'll be happy to take him off our hands & give him a shot.

dougdirt
04-04-2010, 06:25 PM
Who is he an upgrade over on a major league roster? Somebody brought up Marcus Thames, he's not an upgrade over him. The Nationals? Maybe he's worth a not very good Nationals prospect? The value just isn't there.

If we somehow got him to AAA, that would be the best case.

He is an upgrade over Laynce Nix IMO. So there is one spot.

mth123
04-04-2010, 06:32 PM
Who is he an upgrade over on a major league roster? Somebody brought up Marcus Thames, he's not an upgrade over him. The Nationals? Maybe he's worth a not very good Nationals prospect? The value just isn't there.

If we somehow got him to AAA, that would be the best case.

I think I agree. I don't like the idea of losing Balentien, but I don't see him bringing much unless someone else is packaged with him. No way the Yankees in their circumstances would replace Thames with a cheap upside guy. I could see him being a nice addition for the Nats, but he won't bring much back. Maybe a similarly iffy propsect like a Colin Balester, but I don't think he could crack the staff at AAA. Personally, I think the Reds should send some others (maybe Burton and something else) along with him and try to get a guy like Danny Espinosa in the deal. Straight up, maybe a similarly iffy guy who was highly regarded at one time and is still at a lower level would do for Wlad. Chris Marrero might be interesting.

I'm starting to think he may clear waivers, but I'm not sure if he can refuse assignment.

flyer85
04-04-2010, 07:12 PM
he has little value. They maybe could trade him to a team with worse OFs than the Reds ... like the Nats

fearofpopvol1
04-04-2010, 07:17 PM
Balentien 2010 has some similarities to Brandon Phillips 2006.

In 2006 Phillips was a failed prospect trying to make the Indians as a backup infielder. In 2010 Balentien was a failed prospect trying to make the Reds as a backup outfielder.

The 2006 Indians felt Phillips would not do well in a bench role and kept a veteran for this spot. The 2010 Reds felt Balentien would not do well in a bench role and kept a veteran (Nix) for this spot.

In 2006 Phillips was out of options. He was DFAed & traded to the Reds. The Reds were a bad ballclub who could afford to give Phillips playing time hoping to strike gold. A contending club would not have been able to do this.
If I ran a club like the 2010 Nationals, Pirates or Royals I would be happy to pick up Balentien for free or next to nothing. Make him the everyday player in RF or LF and see what he can do. If he fails you haven't lost much of anything. If he succeeds you have picked up a player for nothing.

I think those who say Balentien is terrible and no one would want him are mistaken. Some terrible team will be willing to give him a chance based on his 2009 1/2 season with the Reds & spring training. they might not give us squat in trade but they'll be happy to take him off our hands & give him a shot.

Great post. I think there's quite a bit of truth in this. The reality is, the Reds nor anyone else really knows what kind of player Wlad is or will be because he has not had the chance to get everyday ABs for a consistent period of time. He doesn't have anything to prove in the minors yet the Reds can't afford to just slot him in the lineup as the everyday LF.

I would say that I think the odds of him having a breakout like Phillips did is unlikely but I guess no one knows until someone takes the risk.

dfs
04-04-2010, 07:39 PM
If you can't outplay Laynce Nix, you are the definition of free talent.

dougdirt
04-04-2010, 07:41 PM
If you can't outplay Laynce Nix, you are the definition of free talent.

Sure.... but he did outplay Laynce Nix.

RedLegSuperStar
04-04-2010, 09:10 PM
I think he is going to accept a trip to Louisville

dfs
04-05-2010, 09:46 AM
Sure.... but he did outplay Laynce Nix.

Did he? The (admittedly sparse) numbers don't clearly indicate that and I wasn't paying enough attention to who what playing in what game.

The surprise about Miles getting cut and Leake making the team seems to me to indicate a real sea change in the way this franchise operates. I hate to put it this way, but the front office seems to be actually trying to win ball games instead of caring about who has options and who has guaranteed money. The DFAing of Balentien in favor of keeping NRI NIX seemed to me to fit with that general thread.

Now, I trust your eyes and judgment Doug. You see things on the field that I will miss and I know you hate to play the "what are they thinking?" game, but ...well, if Balentien clearly outplayed Nix, then why are they going to let him go?

Bumstead
04-05-2010, 10:23 AM
Hopefully he passes through waivers. If not, hopefully the Reds do the right thing and hit the eject button on Laynce Nix. We don't need a pet for Dusty, we need to field the best 25 guys we can and Balentien, right now, is one of our best 5 OF's. Other teams are not going to offer much of anything for him because the Reds will have zero leverage.

Bum

bucksfan2
04-05-2010, 10:35 AM
Hopefully he passes through waivers. If not, hopefully the Reds do the right thing and hit the eject button on Laynce Nix. We don't need a pet for Dusty, we need to field the best 25 guys we can and Balentien, right now, is one of our best 5 OF's. Other teams are not going to offer much of anything for him because the Reds will have zero leverage.

Bum

The more I look at it the more I am fine with the move. Balentine was battling for the 5th OF spot which is a spot start, pinch hitting role on a baseball team. Balentine is a guy who needs regular playing time to develop and he isn't ahead of Bruce, Stubbs, Gomes, or Dickerson. You could make the argument that if an OF goes down and the Reds need another starter guys like Heisey, Francisco, and Frazier would get the starting nod.

I think the decision came down to who could play in a 5th outfielder capacity better, Balentine or Nix. And if the Reds felt Nix fit that role better (I can't argue with that) then thats the reason Balentine was released.

thatcoolguy_22
04-05-2010, 10:48 AM
What if his being DFA'd was a way for WJ to force a trade or as an easy way to test the market? Pretty crafty move knowing that he could outright Nix to Louisville. It seems plausible... The Giants are looking for a slugger desperately. They are starting John Bowker in RF on opening day.

Anyone have any intel on their minor league situation?

puca
04-05-2010, 11:15 AM
What if his being DFA'd was a way for WJ to force a trade or as an easy way to test the market? Pretty crafty move knowing that he could outright Nix to Louisville. It seems plausible... The Giants are looking for a slugger desperately. They are starting John Bowker in RF on opening day.

Anyone have any intel on their minor league situation?

Not sure what you are getting at. The only way Balentien can remain a Red at this point is if he passes through waivers and is outrighted to the minors.

The DFA could improve the chances of trading Wlad if there is a team out there interested in him that is not willing to risk losing him through the waiver process. But he would not fetch anything of any value in return.

klw
04-05-2010, 11:15 AM
I would have to think that unless Balentin had been scouted heavily that most teams would just go witht he familiar faces that they just set their rosters with. This may be the time of year he could most easily get through waivers.

thatcoolguy_22
04-05-2010, 11:17 AM
Not sure what you are getting at. The only way Balentien can remain a Red at this point is if he passes through waivers and is outrighted to the minors.

The DFA could improve the chances of trading Wlad if there is a team out there interested in him that is not willing to risk losing him through the waiver process. But he would not fetch anything of any value in return.

If Wlad is claimed off of waivers the Reds can pull him back. In the meantime they discover if there is any interest for his services in the league. If a trade is not worked out Nix is on a minor league contract and can be sent to Louisville.

edabbs44
04-05-2010, 11:45 AM
From rotoworld


Red designated OF Wladimir Balentien for assignment.

The 25-year-old outfielder went 16-for-49 (.327) this spring, but the Reds have a rather full outfield and Balentien was out of minor league options. Other clubs are likely to show interest.

klw
04-05-2010, 12:04 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/04/reds-dfa-miles-balentien.html


The Reds have designated Aaron Miles and Wladimir Balentien for assignment, according to C. Trent Rosecrans of CNati.com (Twitter link). We heard on the weekend that the Reds were likely to designate the pair for assignment to create roster space if GM Walt Jocketty didn't find a trade partner.

The Mariners designated Balentien for assignment last summer, before the Reds acquired the outfielder leading up to the trade deadline. ...

puca
04-05-2010, 12:22 PM
If Wlad is claimed off of waivers the Reds can pull him back. In the meantime they discover if there is any interest for his services in the league. If a trade is not worked out Nix is on a minor league contract and can be sent to Louisville.

He could not be pulled back. This time of year waivers are irrevokable.

edabbs44
04-05-2010, 12:30 PM
With Wlad not having some obscene amt of money tied to him, would it be fair to imagine that he could have been had for a song?

OnBaseMachine
04-05-2010, 11:28 PM
I'm hoping he clears waivers and goes to Louisville. I doubt he goes unclaimed, though...

Orenda
04-06-2010, 12:01 PM
I noticed Oakland has DFA'd Jack Cust. Does anybody else think the Reds should go after him? Cust would be an upgrade offensively over Nix IMO and a Gomes/Cust platoon would solidify the LF offense. Maybe Oakland might have some interest in Wlad.

Bumstead
04-06-2010, 12:28 PM
I don't think Cust can play the OF as "well" as Dunn or Willingham or Gomes can...He is a strict DH I believe.

Tom Servo
04-06-2010, 01:40 PM
I'm hoping he clears waivers and goes to Louisville. I doubt he goes unclaimed, though...
Same. I thought Wlad played well last year and I'd rather give him at-bats over Nix.

RedsManRick
04-06-2010, 01:51 PM
If he gets claimed, does he have to be placed on the major league roster of whoever claims him?

Orenda
04-06-2010, 02:01 PM
I don't think Cust can play the OF as "well" as Dunn or Willingham or Gomes can...He is a strict DH I believe.

I'm not really familiar with his defense although I knew it was below average. Still his defense wouldn't bother me considering the rest of the OF should be solid and Dickerson would also probably split time with him.

Do you think Laynce Nix is on the team because of his defense or because he has had some success against rhps?

Even if Cust doesn't get a lot of time in the outfield he would still be a better bench option than Nix IMO. He slugs against righties and gets on base and he can start in the outfield occasionally when his offense may be needed.

Danny Serafini
04-06-2010, 02:21 PM
If he gets claimed, does he have to be placed on the major league roster of whoever claims him?

Yes

dfs
04-06-2010, 02:26 PM
Do you think Laynce Nix is on the team because of his defense or because he has had some success against rhps?

If anybody has a really good answer for this, feel free to speak up.

They claim his defense is good enough to cover center, but he only put 34 innings there last year. Jay Bruce can cover center for 34 innings.

While "more" successful against righthanders, everything is relative. Even with a platoon split Gomes had a higher OPS against righties than Nix did last year.

Yes, he's a former high draft pick who got hurt, but ... well, the draft pick wasn't that high and he's been healthy now for a while. The time to start producing has come and gone without a blip.

I can live with the rest of the package, but the 291 OBP just grabs your attention right away. They can't keep running him out there if he keeps doing that.

bucksfan2
04-06-2010, 02:31 PM
Same. I thought Wlad played well last year and I'd rather give him at-bats over Nix.

He wouldn't be getting AB's over Nix. He would be getting AB's over Stubbs, Bruce, Gomes or Dickerson. He would be a spot starter who wouldn't get regular at bats. He wouldn't be getting Nix AB's because as Dusty proved on opening day if Nix plays it will be against a RHP.

Gallen5862
04-12-2010, 09:50 AM
Does anyone know if Balentin or Miles cleared Waivers?

Sea Ray
04-12-2010, 10:41 AM
Does anyone know if Balentin or Miles cleared Waivers?

I think they have 10 days to clear and it hasn't been 10 days yet.

Marc D
04-12-2010, 03:52 PM
I noticed Oakland has DFA'd Jack Cust. Does anybody else think the Reds should go after him? Cust would be an upgrade offensively over Nix IMO and a Gomes/Cust platoon would solidify the LF offense. Maybe Oakland might have some interest in Wlad.


Defensive issues and a pending pay day are the negatives but I agree with you. When I saw he had been DFA'd I thought about how much he'd help offensively.

The other issue is he's left handed which would result in 4 lefties in the lineup on most days vs RH pitching and we just couldn't have that.

OnBaseMachine
04-14-2010, 12:00 PM
From John Fay:


The deadline on Aaron Miles and Wladimir Balentien is 1 p.m. The Reds designated them for assignment Opening Day. They had 10 days to trade them, put them on waivers or release them.


http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/04/14/miles-baletien-deadline-in-66-minutes/

HeatherC1212
04-14-2010, 12:02 PM
If he hasn't been claimed by now, there may be a good chance Balentein accepts a minor league assignment. I'm surprised that he hasn't been picked up yet by anyone. :eek:

camisadelgolf
04-14-2010, 12:22 PM
If he hasn't been claimed by now, there may be a good chance Balentein accepts a minor league assignment. I'm surprised that he hasn't been picked up yet by anyone. :eek:
The first time a player is DFAed, when he passes through waivers, he can be released or outrighted to the minors without his permission. The second time, however, he must grant permission to be outrighted.

Benihana
04-14-2010, 01:37 PM
Any word on what happened?

Chip R
04-14-2010, 01:41 PM
Any word on what happened?


There will be a press conference at 3. ;)

reds44
04-14-2010, 01:48 PM
Both players cleared waiviers,

Balentin to Louisville
Miles released

Benihana
04-14-2010, 01:51 PM
Both players cleared waivers and have been sent to Louisville.

Actually, Miles was released and Balentien to Louisville.

Rejoice!

Plus Plus
04-14-2010, 01:51 PM
Both players cleared waivers and have been sent to Louisville.

Per Fay's twitter, this is only half correct.


Miles cleared waivers and has been released. Balentien cleared waivers and has been outrighted to CLouisville.. #Reds

http://twitter.com/johnfayman

edit- just saw your updated post.

savafan
04-14-2010, 01:51 PM
Both players cleared waivers and have been sent to Louisville.

Wrong, Balentien to Louisville, Miles has been released.

reds44
04-14-2010, 01:51 PM
ALRIGHT PEOPLE I get the point lol

Degenerate39
04-14-2010, 01:55 PM
ALRIGHT PEOPLE I get the point lol

I was tempted to do it too. But I think Balentien is really overrated by most of the people on the board.

redsmetz
04-14-2010, 01:55 PM
This is heartening. Hopefully Balentien can get some further seasoning so we can see if there's more value there.

membengal
04-14-2010, 01:55 PM
And, apparently, Balentin went CLouisville, which is northeastsouthwest of Louisville as I understand it.

Ghosts of 1990
04-14-2010, 01:59 PM
It's official, Miles career as a Redleg never quite got off the ground. So what did we get in that Rosales trade?

pedro
04-14-2010, 01:59 PM
It's official, Miles career as a Redleg never quite got off the ground. So what did we get in that Rosales trade?

1.1 Million dollars in salary relief and the absence of Willy Taveras

Ron Madden
04-14-2010, 02:04 PM
1.1 Million dollars in salary relief and the absence of Willy Taveras

That'll work. ;)

Tom Servo
04-14-2010, 02:10 PM
Glad Balentien passed waivers.

pedro
04-14-2010, 02:13 PM
I'm not surprised he cleared waivers but you really have to wonder what Dayton Moore is doing over there in KC.

OnBaseMachine
04-14-2010, 02:15 PM
Excellent news. I'm very surprised Balentien cleared waivers. Hopefully he can go to Louisville and tear it up and force his way back to Cincy.

Redsfan320
04-14-2010, 02:19 PM
Wish Balentin would've been released with Miles. With all our young OFs, he looks like one with very little potential. I see no real use for him.

320

Mario-Rijo
04-14-2010, 02:23 PM
I'm not surprised he cleared waivers but you really have to wonder what Dayton Moore is doing over there in KC.

Agreed, that was a fair fit IMO. Possibly even Cleveland though they have plenty of good young OF's themselves. But you can never have too many assets.

lollipopcurve
04-14-2010, 02:25 PM
The wanishing Wlad disappears and reappears

11larkin11
04-14-2010, 02:28 PM
Wish Balentin would've been released with Miles. With all our young OFs, he looks like one with very little potential. I see no real use for him.

320

I disagree. I think he has the third most potential behind Stubbs and Bruce, and ahead of Heisey and Dorn. Unless you count Frazier and Alonso. He should be on this team as the 4/5 OFer right now

Caveat Emperor
04-14-2010, 02:33 PM
The wanishing Wlad disappears and reappears

Another shrewd move by Jocketty -- understanding the market and the value of the players invovled (see: Gomes, Johnny). Wlad can go to Louisville and play everyday, giving the Reds an opportunity to develop a extra bat or trade chip (if he improves his stock) down the road.

redsmetz
04-14-2010, 02:36 PM
Another shrewd move by Jocketty -- understanding the market and the value of the players invovled (see: Gomes, Johnny). Wlad can go to Louisville and play everyday, giving the Reds an opportunity to develop a extra bat or trade chip (if he improves his stock) down the road.

My guess is it was a calculated risk that Jocketty took. I think there was the possibility Balentien might be claimed, but I'm guessing he figured he wouldn't be given that he fell to us last year. But that's just my guess, nothing else.

Gallen5862
04-14-2010, 02:39 PM
Its great news that Balentien cleared waivers. Now he will get a chance in Loiusville to work on his game.

TRF
04-14-2010, 02:40 PM
Another shrewd move by Jocketty -- understanding the market and the value of the players invovled (see: Gomes, Johnny). Wlad can go to Louisville and play everyday, giving the Reds an opportunity to develop a extra bat or trade chip (if he improves his stock) down the road.

I'm thrilled he accepted the assignment. But is there a position available for him to play everyday?

Dorn 1B
Heisey CF
Frazier/Francisco LF

RF maybe?

Brutus
04-14-2010, 02:42 PM
Glad, though not surprised, to see this.

Will M
04-14-2010, 02:45 PM
count me as one who is pleasantly suprised by this.

IMO he can still be a useful major league player.

Sea Ray
04-14-2010, 02:45 PM
I guess now folks can get off Jocketty's back for not getting something for Balentien. Obviously the guy has no value.

Benihana
04-14-2010, 02:46 PM
I'm thrilled he accepted the assignment. But is there a position available for him to play everyday?

Dorn 1B
Heisey CF
Frazier/Francisco LF

RF maybe?

I thought Frazier is going to play 3B with Francisco in LF? Balentien plays RF.

I'd still like to see Frazier get one last shot at 2B. Valaika and Sutton will be utility guys.

TRF
04-14-2010, 02:56 PM
Josh Anderson, thank you for playing. Enjoy the occasional spot start and defensive replacement duties.

edabbs44
04-14-2010, 02:56 PM
Not for nothing, but I think people need to start giving Walt a little more credit on moves like this. If nothing else, he knows the market.

Benihana
04-14-2010, 03:00 PM
Not for nothing, but I think people need to start giving Walt a little more credit on moves like this. If nothing else, he knows the market.

+1


First Jonny Gomes and now this. Bravo Walt.

Orenda
04-14-2010, 06:02 PM
But you can never have too many assets.

True, but its only an asset if you can get something for it.

M2
04-14-2010, 09:20 PM
True, but its only an asset if you can get something for it.

Or use it. I thought before the season that Balentien was one of the few bats who might be able to elevate the Reds' offense. It wouldn't surprise me to see the team turn to him around Memorial Day.

jojo
04-14-2010, 09:36 PM
+1


First Jonny Gomes and now this. Bravo Walt.

I'm confused. Walt gets a kudos for knowing no one would want Wlad?

edabbs44
04-14-2010, 09:43 PM
I'm confused. Walt gets a kudos for knowing no one would want Wlad?

More than a few thought that he should have given a roster spot to Wlad b/c he was too valuable to lose and that he'd be snatched up easily if released.

He shouldn't have a monument erected in his honor, but the lesson is that the guy knows what he is doing.

HokieRed
04-14-2010, 09:50 PM
More than a few thought that he should have given a roster spot to Wlad b/c he was too valuable to lose and that he'd be snatched up easily if released.

He shouldn't have a monument erected in his honor, but the lesson is that the guy knows what he is doing.

Seems to me jojo is still pointing to an interesting quirk in the logic here. Walt seems to be being praised for figuring out how to keep what no one else wanted (and for acquiring him in the first place.)

edabbs44
04-14-2010, 09:56 PM
Seems to me jojo is still pointing to an interesting quirk in the logic here. Walt seems to be being praised for figuring out how to keep what no one else wanted (and for acquiring him in the first place.)

The real quirk was that he was being criticised by some for DFAing him. My point (and I can only speak for myself) is that maybe people should trust the guy since he probably knows a little more about the game than any of us. You know, instead of acting like the guy just DFAed Votto or Bruce.

HokieRed
04-14-2010, 10:00 PM
I've been a big supporter of Walt's, was one of the no more than a handful of people who gave him an A in the poll over the offseason. And I like having Balentien. Still it seems odd to receive praise for managing to keep what no one else wants.

Sea Ray
04-14-2010, 10:01 PM
Seems to me jojo is still pointing to an interesting quirk in the logic here. Walt seems to be being praised for figuring out how to keep what no one else wanted (and for acquiring him in the first place.)

I don't know what the quirk is. Walt should be praised for cutting the player that can make it through waivers. That way you can keep him in your organization. As for acquiring him in the first place, Walt got him for a song.

jojo
04-14-2010, 10:04 PM
More than a few thought that he should have given a roster spot to Wlad b/c he was too valuable to lose and that he'd be snatched up easily if released.

He shouldn't have a monument erected in his honor, but the lesson is that the guy knows what he is doing.

Coming into spring training Wlad was a long shot to make the 25 man roster and the signing of Gomes probably made it all but a certainty that Wlad wouldn't.

Too valuable to lose? He cost a bag of balls. I guess there is a lesson but I'm not sure it really informs about Walt.

edabbs44
04-14-2010, 10:09 PM
I've been a big supporter of Walt's, was one of the no more than a handful of people who gave him an A in the poll over the offseason. And I like having Balentien. Still it seems odd to receive praise for managing to keep what no one else wants.

He didn't just keep Balentien, he also kept whoever he "should" have released in order to release Balentien.

He played the situation correctly. Does he deserve a parade? No. But maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt the next time he makes a fringe decision like this before ripping him.

jojo
04-14-2010, 10:10 PM
Walt should be praised for cutting the player that can make it through waivers. That way you can keep him in your organization. As for acquiring him in the first place, Walt got him for a song.

I'm still confused. You got something for nothing but you're shrewd for guessing you could pass him without a claim?

Wlad with an option wouldn't have made it. Wlad without an option isn't a great gamble....

HokieRed
04-14-2010, 10:10 PM
He didn't just keep Balentien, he also kept whoever he "should" have released in order to release Balentien.

He played the situation correctly. Does he deserve a parade? No. But maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt the next time he makes a fringe decision like this before ripping him.


As I pointed out in my grading him A, I've given him the benefit of the doubt in every decision he's made.

TheNext44
04-14-2010, 10:11 PM
Coming into spring training Wlad was a long shot to make the 25 man roster and the signing of Gomes probably made it all but a certainty that Wlad wouldn't.

Too valuable to lose? He cost a bag of balls. I guess there is a lesson but I'm not sure it really informs about Walt.

Just for accuracy, his value is not what he cost, but what you can get for him... which seems to be a bag of balls. ;)

edabbs44
04-14-2010, 10:13 PM
As I pointed out in my grading him A, I've given him the benefit of the doubt in every decision he's made.

So have I, for the most part. And I think most have come around on him since last year. But this was just another example that he does have a clue.

TheNext44
04-14-2010, 10:16 PM
I'm still confused. You got something for nothing but you're shrewd for guessing you could pass him without a claim?

Wlad with an option wouldn't have made it. Wlad without an option isn't a great gamble....

He didn't pass through waivers last year. I think everyone was surprised that he did this time.

Personally, I think Jocketty just got lucky this time. Rosters were set, and no team could afford the 25 man roster space. Later in the year, Balentien doesn't clear waivers.

Ron Madden
04-15-2010, 02:31 AM
He didn't pass through waivers last year. I think everyone was surprised that he did this time.

Personally, I think Jocketty just got lucky this time. Rosters were set, and no team could afford the 25 man roster space. Later in the year, Balentien doesn't clear waivers.

That's the way I see it as well.

edabbs44
04-15-2010, 06:36 AM
He didn't pass through waivers last year. I think everyone was surprised that he did this time.

Personally, I think Jocketty just got lucky this time. Rosters were set, and no team could afford the 25 man roster space. Later in the year, Balentien doesn't clear waivers.

Very well could be the case. But if that is true, are you saying that Walt had no idea that this could happen this way and just got lucky?

Highly doubtful.

PuffyPig
04-15-2010, 07:14 AM
He didn't pass through waivers last year. I think everyone was surprised that he did this time.

Personally, I think Jocketty just got lucky this time. Rosters were set, and no team could afford the 25 man roster space. Later in the year, Balentien doesn't clear waivers.

How is it luck when he had him pass through waivers at a time when it was difficult for any team to calim him?

It's well known that this is the best time to try and get someone through waivers.

Walt took advantage of that.

Sea Ray
04-15-2010, 08:46 AM
I'm still confused. You got something for nothing but you're shrewd for guessing you could pass him without a claim?

Wlad with an option wouldn't have made it. Wlad without an option isn't a great gamble....


Jojo, the point of this thread is that Balentien not only wouldn't pass through waivers, it was that we could get something for him in trade. That's a far cry from how things worked out.

If you were so sure he'd pass through waivers where were you a week ago? I would have loved to hear you say "there's no chance anyone will claim this guy. Go ahead, waive him and stash him in Louisville."

The truth is it was a crapshoot for him to pass through waivers and Walt accurately predicted it. That's what good GMs do

jojo
04-15-2010, 09:15 AM
Jojo, the point of this thread is that Balentien not only wouldn't pass through waivers, it was that we could get something for him in trade. That's a far cry from how things worked out.

If you were so sure he'd pass through waivers where were you a week ago? I would have loved to hear you say "there's no chance anyone will claim this guy. Go ahead, waive him and stash him in Louisville."

The truth is it was a crapshoot for him to pass through waivers and Walt accurately predicted it. That's what good GMs do

I've been pretty consistent on Wlad... He wasn't likely to make the 25 man roster and he wouldn't be a big loss if he left the organization. His upside is probably that of an average major leaguer at this point.

That he passed through waivers is really not a huge event. It certainly isn't a tell concerning shrewd GMing... he was waived, the FO crossed their fingers and they got to keep their scratch-off ticket.

Cedric
04-15-2010, 09:32 AM
Jojo, the point of this thread is that Balentien not only wouldn't pass through waivers, it was that we could get something for him in trade. That's a far cry from how things worked out.

If you were so sure he'd pass through waivers where were you a week ago? I would have loved to hear you say "there's no chance anyone will claim this guy. Go ahead, waive him and stash him in Louisville."

The truth is it was a crapshoot for him to pass through waivers and Walt accurately predicted it. That's what good GMs do

Without an option it was almost a guarantee he wouldn't get claimed.

edabbs44
04-15-2010, 09:35 AM
I've been pretty consistent on Wlad... He wasn't likely to make the 25 man roster and he wouldn't be a big loss if he left the organization. His upside is probably that of an average major leaguer at this point.

That he passed through waivers is really not a huge event. It certainly isn't a tell concerning shrewd GMing... he was waived, the FO crossed their fingers and they got to keep their scratch-off ticket.

Again, I don't think that the move was worthy of an award, but saying that the "FO crossed their fingers" is probably the wrong way to look at it.

They played the situation correctly. The thing about Balentien is that it wasn't a slam dunk getting him through waivers. The guy does have some potential and has had success in the minors. This wasn't like releasing Stanton or Burns. There was a possibility that a team would have interest in taking a flier on him.

puca
04-15-2010, 09:36 AM
I'd give Walt more credit if the big club had a legitimate RH hitter on the bench. With Gomes pretty much the everyday LFer, probably the best RH PHer is a pitcher.

Whether or not Balentien passed through waivers is of much less consequence than having Cairo come to bat in clutch situations. If Gomes and Dickerson were platooning, having Nix on the bench would make sense. As it is, not so much.

TRF
04-15-2010, 09:38 AM
Again, I don't think that the move was worthy of an award, but saying that the "FO crossed their fingers" is probably the wrong way to look at it.

They played the situation correctly. The thing about Balentien is that it wasn't a slam dunk getting him through waivers. The guy does have some potential and has had success in the minors. This wasn't like releasing Stanton or Burns. There was a possibility that a team would have interest in taking a flier on him.

You are giving him kudos for doing what every other GM would have done. Even bad GM's know the end of ST is the time to try and sneak a player through waivers as rosters are set.

So props to Walt for doing EXACTLY what he was supposed to do.

Sea Ray
04-15-2010, 09:42 AM
I've been pretty consistent on Wlad... He wasn't likely to make the 25 man roster and he wouldn't be a big loss if he left the organization. His upside is probably that of an average major leaguer at this point.

That he passed through waivers is really not a huge event. It certainly isn't a tell concerning shrewd GMing... he was waived, the FO crossed their fingers and they got to keep their scratch-off ticket.

It's definitely not a huge event and it's not being billed as one. It was one of 100 posts in a thread which started off having nothing to do with Walt's performance. No one is starting a thread with a headline saying "let's hear it for Walt".

Sea Ray
04-15-2010, 09:45 AM
You are giving him kudos for doing what every other GM would have done. Even bad GM's know the end of ST is the time to try and sneak a player through waivers as rosters are set.

So props to Walt for doing EXACTLY what he was supposed to do.

I do think people deserve props for doing what they're supposed to do but I love the attitude of some here who now say it was a foregone conclusion that he'd pass through waivers. Nobody had the foresight to say that until now

jojo
04-15-2010, 09:53 AM
I do think people deserve props for doing what they're supposed to do but I love the attitude of some here who now say it was a foregone conclusion that he'd pass through waivers. Nobody had the foresight to say that until now

Its telling of little so I'm not sure why emotions like love are evoked?

edabbs44
04-15-2010, 09:57 AM
You are giving him kudos for doing what every other GM would have done. Even bad GM's know the end of ST is the time to try and sneak a player through waivers as rosters are set.

So props to Walt for doing EXACTLY what he was supposed to do.

I am saying that the board should give the guy more credit. Here are some of the reactions when it was announced:


How in the heck can you cut Balentien? That's stupid. Give me Balentien over Laynce Nix any day of the week.


The Reds are seriously going to keep Miguel Cairo over Balentien? I knew the Reds would have to make at least one bad decision before the season started.


That certainly qualifies as a bad decision.


Hopefully the Reds can get a solid return for Balentien. I honestly have no idea why he was cut.


Basically they kept Nix over Wlad. Can't understand why.


Dropping Balentien is a terrible move. Just atrocious.
Balentien hits RHP better than LHP.
Balentien is better than Nix.
Balentien may have a future in the bigs whereas Nix is close to having to get a real job.
Balentien >>>> Nix.

I am very suprised by this move. I suspect Walt wants ABs that Balentien would have gotten to go to Francisco. If Francisco is going to AAA when Leake is activated then I am totally lost on what Walt is thinking.

Kudos? Not exactly. Parade in his honor? No. Our trust that he knows what he is doing? Yeah, I think this is further evidence that he does have a clue. Maybe the next time he pulls a similar move the reaction will be a little more reasonable.

westofyou
04-15-2010, 10:00 AM
Balentien's talent is not enough to draw flies at this time, he's in WMP territory, many would rather not waste a roster spot on a guy who's upside is waning with each exposure.

Surprise, he got through waivers, on base challenged, not a good glove and without options, the only surprise is that so many are surprised that he slipped through.

Spring~Fields
04-15-2010, 10:13 AM
Balentien's talent is not enough to draw flies at this time, he's in WMP territory, many would rather not waste a roster spot on a guy who's upside is waning with each exposure.

Surprise, he got through waivers, on base challenged, not a good glove and without options, the only surprise is that so many are surprised that he slipped through.

Yes.


could we get anyone useful for Balentien

That was the question.

That was the question regarding a player that Walt Jocketty and Mr. Baker apparently did not want on their team to begin with, even as the 25th man. They made the evaluation, the assessment, the choice and the decision on Balentien.

2009 Balentien played in 40 games, had a 110 AB and 125 PA, so that indicates that someone valued his skills as much as the playing time indicates. How high was he valued? By Mr. Jocketty and Mr. Baker?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/batting?team=cin&season=2009&seasonType=2&split=0&cat=avg&order=true&type=exp

Debating over a player that Mr. Jocketty and Mr. Baker did not even want as a 25th man. :confused: and then to go on about giving him credit. :confused: When one might construe that as an admission by them that they made a mistake to begin with on him.

The question has been asked and answered in that Mr. Jocketty to date, was not able to get anyone useful for Balentien.

Though it will be interesting to see who has their developmental playing time deluded down in the minors. How many stray puppies do they drag home with something cute, adorable and attractive about it, before they actually find some pedigree with some actual championship within it that makes a significant difference for their major league team?

Sea Ray
04-15-2010, 10:35 AM
I'm not a big Balentien fan, nor was I a big WM Pena fan. I wasn't sure that he'd clear waivers but I wouldn't cry any tears if he didn't. The most far out thinkers out there were the ones who thought he had any trade value. Not only in this thread but how many times have we heard potential trades suggested around here that include Vlad?

Whoever is comparing him with WM Pena is off base as well. We flipped Wily Mo for a starting pitcher. Vlad's never had that kind of value

Guacarock
04-15-2010, 12:14 PM
Looks like the Texas Rangers might take a flyer on Aaron Miles, at least to the extent of giving him a AAA berth.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/04/rangers-may-pursue-miles.html

TRF
04-15-2010, 02:49 PM
OK just to be clear on how much we should praise Jocketty for DFA'ing a guy he wanted to keep, but wanted off the 40 man roster, here is a list of DFA's that have occoured this month, most of them prior to opening day

Baltimore Orioles designated 1B Michael Aubrey for assignment.
Baltimore Orioles designated SS Robert Andino for assignment.

Cleveland Indians designated 2B Anderson Hernandez for assignment.
Cleveland Indians designated C Wyatt Toregas for assignment.

Kansas City Royals designated RHP Anthony Lerew for assignment.

Los Angeles Angels designated C Ryan Budde for assignment.

Oakland Athletics designated DH Jack Cust for assignment.

Florida Marlins designated CF Jai Miller for assignment. (Claimed by Oakland 2 days later)
Florida Marlins designated RHP Cristhian Martinez for assignment.
Florida Marlins designated RHP Jose Veras for assignment.

New York Mets designated RHP Nelson Figueroa for assignment.

Washington Nationals designated RHP Jason Bergmann for assignment.

Pittsburgh Pirates designated SS Ramon Vazquez for assignment.
Pittsburgh Pirates designated RHP Hayden Penn for assignment.

San Diego Padres designated LF Chad Huffman for assignment.

It seems other GM's were doing their jobs too. Only one player i found was claimed, of course I could have missed one or two.

backbencher
04-15-2010, 03:03 PM
OK just to be clear on how much we should praise Jocketty for DFA'ing a guy he wanted to keep, but wanted off the 40 man roster,

The "praise" for WJ is in response to the hand-wringing on this board about the possibility that WB might be lost. WJ had a good idea that he would not be.

Yes, those are the kinds of things that he is paid to know. But the average message board denizen (I'm not excepting myself) thinks that he/she knows more about the business of GMing than a lifelong GM.

It's kind of like thinking that a prospect on a hot streak has a "high" or "peaking" value noticeably above his actual worth. If a bunch of us electronic yahoos see through a streaking but ultimately unsound prospect, you bet that the average front office does, too.

TRF
04-15-2010, 03:15 PM
The "praise" for WJ is in response to the hand-wringing on this board about the possibility that WB might be lost. WJ had a good idea that he would not be.

Yes, those are the kinds of things that he is paid to know. But the average message board denizen (I'm not excepting myself) thinks that he/she knows more about the business of GMing than a lifelong GM.

It's kind of like thinking that a prospect on a hot streak has a "high" or "peaking" value noticeably above his actual worth. If a bunch of us electronic yahoos see through a streaking but ultimately unsound prospect, you bet that the average front office does, too.

I think more of the hand wringing was over who was kept, specifically Nix.

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2010, 03:30 PM
Wladimir Balentien and Aaron Miles cleared waivers on Wednesday, and the team released Miles and outrighted Balentien to Class AAA Louisville.


http://cnati.com/cincinnati-reds/reds-keep-balentien-release-miles-001762/

edabbs44
04-15-2010, 05:10 PM
I think more of the hand wringing was over who was kept, specifically Nix.

And now he has them both instead of a guy that the entire major leagues just passed on, which is what more than a few posters on here wanted.

TRF
04-15-2010, 05:18 PM
I think most on here wanted him on the 25 man roster. I certainly did.

edabbs44
04-15-2010, 05:31 PM
I think most on here wanted him on the 25 man roster. I certainly did.

He still has a shot. He can prove that he deserves to be there by mashing in AAA. I am sure he'll be given the chance if warranted.

westofyou
04-15-2010, 05:37 PM
I know I didn't want him on the 25 man, plays a bad OF, has a lifetime .221/.281/.374/.655 line, what's the upside?

reds1869
04-15-2010, 06:17 PM
On OOTP 11 I traded Balentien for Cantu. Think FLA would go for that? ;)

Will M
04-15-2010, 06:33 PM
Assertion: A player must be terrible because he cleared waivers. He has no chance to amount to anything.

Refution: Not everyone who clears waivers needs to go home and get a real job. They do occasionally amount to something. For example Nelson Cruz cleared waivers after spring training 2008.

REDREAD
04-15-2010, 06:35 PM
I do think people deserve props for doing what they're supposed to do but I love the attitude of some here who now say it was a foregone conclusion that he'd pass through waivers. Nobody had the foresight to say that until now

Yep, and you can bet that if Balentin was claimed by someone, people would be calling Walt and idiot for waiving him.

I've been away from the board, but really Balentin has almost no value. If he was claimed, it's no big loss. It was worth picking him up last year to evaluate him when we had roster space. I really don't think it's worth keeping him on the big league roster at this time. If he was a plus defender, then yes, it's a much easier decision. OF that can't play defense and might hit are just not worth a whole lot after their prospect label wears off. Sure, Nix has a crappy OBP, but his defense makes him a bench asset.. not a huge asset, but an asset nonetheless, esp with Gomes getting a lot of starts.

Hopefullly Balentin develops in Louisville. Another good move by Walt.

TheNext44
04-15-2010, 07:01 PM
I know I didn't want him on the 25 man, plays a bad OF, has a lifetime .221/.281/.374/.655 line, what's the upside?

I don't know where he gets the bad rep on defense. He seemed fine to me, maybe a bit rough, but definitely at least league average on the corners.

And the upside is that he figures it out and starts to put up the numbers that his minor league projections have been saying that he will, which are well above league average, and which he did in his brief time with the Reds and in Spring Training.

Most top prospects that don't get injured figure it out eventually. It really looked like he was on the verge.

Ron Madden
04-16-2010, 03:36 AM
And now he has them both instead of a guy that the entire major leagues just passed on, which is what more than a few posters on here wanted.

Nix signed a minor league contract. Walt could have kept them both without risking Balentien on the waiver wire. just sayin'