PDA

View Full Version : Todays loss a microcosm of last season



ddrone
04-05-2010, 05:22 PM
I know its only the first game of the year,and no,I'am not screaming the sky's falling.HOWEVER,
Dont this game look like a repeat of one of our many losses of last year?you know,Harang not pitching,Bruce not hitting,and hitters leaving runners all over the place?
I know,just call me chicken little.

Falls City Beer
04-05-2010, 05:24 PM
I don't know, I see at least one thing different: 6 runs when Carpenter starts a game. Not a bad day at the ball orchard for the offense. That's different. But, yeah, 10-4 on the pitching--vintage Reds.

Marc D
04-05-2010, 05:35 PM
Don't forget the two key mental mistakes when the game was still close. You can't say "same old Reds" without giving their amazingly consistent lack of mental focus its due.

dsmith421
04-05-2010, 05:38 PM
Why do the members of the Reds' pitching staff think they can get Albert Pujols out? Better yet, why does our manager continue to pitch to him? After today he's got a 1200 lifetime OPS against Cincinnati. Just stop. Please.

_Sir_Charles_
04-05-2010, 05:55 PM
One of the biggest things that stood out for me today, was the complete lack of range exhibited by our new shortstop Orlando Cabrera. That ball hit up the middle should've been an EASY double-play ball. Janish makes that play without question. Add in the fact that he was one of (if not THE) the hottest hitters in spring...and you've got to at least consider starting him over Cabrera.

forfreelin04
04-05-2010, 05:58 PM
One of the biggest things that stood out for me today, was the complete lack of range exhibited by our new shortstop Orlando Cabrera. That ball hit up the middle should've been an EASY double-play ball. Janish makes that play without question. Add in the fact that he was one of (if not THE) the hottest hitters in spring...and you've got to at least consider starting him over Cabrera.

I agree Sir Charles. I listened to the many who stated OCAB's range had severely diminished. Didn't believe it till I saw it today. WOW! He makes a AGON's range look decent.

Sad part is they'll make the switch to Janish much too late in the year. The other sad part is Janish will still hit second.

fearofpopvol1
04-05-2010, 05:59 PM
I thought Jay Bruce looked really bad at the plate. I know, it's 1 game and I'm not declaring anything. But he looked really clueless today.

I thought Harang actually pitched fine. It's the bullpen that stunk, most notably Massett. It's only one game in the end.

The Reds scoring 6 runs was actually very good.

forfreelin04
04-05-2010, 06:11 PM
I thought Jay Bruce looked really bad at the plate. I know, it's 1 game and I'm not declaring anything. But he looked really clueless today.

I thought Harang actually pitched fine. It's the bullpen that stunk, most notably Massett. It's only one game in the end.

The Reds scoring 6 runs was actually very good.

Jay, IMO, didn't look too bad. He had a nice single up the middle. In the swing, you could tell he stayed true to the ball, and made a nice short swing. The problem with Jay is his swing tends to get long with anything in and he tends to get too far out on his front foot with anything outside. This was noticeable on his strikeout with runners on and a flare he hit down the left field line.

If I'm Jay, I spend a great deal of time in the cage with Joey Votto. Votto has developed some opposite field power that rivals anyone in the Major Leagues today.

SirFelixCat
04-05-2010, 06:30 PM
One of the biggest things that stood out for me today, was the complete lack of range exhibited by our new shortstop Orlando Cabrera. That ball hit up the middle should've been an EASY double-play ball. Janish makes that play without question. Add in the fact that he was one of (if not THE) the hottest hitters in spring...and you've got to at least consider starting him over Cabrera.


I agree Sir Charles. I listened to the many who stated OCAB's range had severely diminished. Didn't believe it till I saw it today. WOW! He makes a AGON's range look decent.

Sad part is they'll make the switch to Janish much too late in the year. The other sad part is Janish will still hit second.

I feel the exact same way, 04. I didn't know until I saw it today too...:eek:

I'd like to think that maybe it was just a bad day, but my gut tells me otherwise. Let's hope it was or that they make the switch a lot faster than they have in the past.

_Sir_Charles_
04-05-2010, 06:47 PM
I feel the exact same way, 04. I didn't know until I saw it today too...:eek:

I'd like to think that maybe it was just a bad day, but my gut tells me otherwise. Let's hope it was or that they make the switch a lot faster than they have in the past.

I didn't get to see any of the ST games, and I hadn't seen Cabrera play on TV for a few years...so I was hoping his fielding numbers from last year were an aberration. But apparently not. You can easily have a bad day at the plate...you can even have a bad day defensively with some poor reads or bad hops...but your range is your range. Your speed is your speed.

For me, Cabrera is now my #1 concern. And this isn't a one game "the sky is falling" type of thing. I hope he hits the cover off the ball the rest of the season. But his range and lateral speed/quickness is NOT going to improve with more playing time. For a team that's preaching pitching and defense, short is NOT a slot I'm wanting them to skimp on.

The main reason for getting Cabrera was because many considered Janish's bat to be too wimpy. But his 20 doubles last season while only really playing half the season combined with his 40 spring training AB's where he posted a .350/.372/.600 gives me enough confidence to say that he'll hit enough to justify his glove being out there everyday.

Caveat Emperor
04-05-2010, 06:52 PM
I don't know, I see at least one thing different: 6 runs when Carpenter starts a game. Not a bad day at the ball orchard for the offense.

Not bad at all -- especially for Votto, Stubbs and Rolen.

Harang's been cooked for the better part of 2 years, him getting lit isn't exactly news. There'll be better days at the yard for the pitching, but it was nice to see the bats out there doing work.

forfreelin04
04-05-2010, 06:53 PM
I didn't get to see any of the ST games, and I hadn't seen Cabrera play on TV for a few years...so I was hoping his fielding numbers from last year were an aberration. But apparently not. You can easily have a bad day at the plate...you can even have a bad day defensively with some poor reads or bad hops...but your range is your range. Your speed is your speed.

For me, Cabrera is now my #1 concern. And this isn't a one game "the sky is falling" type of thing. I hope he hits the cover off the ball the rest of the season. But his range and lateral speed/quickness is NOT going to improve with more playing time. For a team that's preaching pitching and defense, short is NOT a slot I'm wanting them to skimp on.

The main reason for getting Cabrera was because many considered Janish's bat to be too wimpy. But his 20 doubles last season while only really playing half the season combined with his 40 spring training AB's where he posted a .350/.372/.600 gives me enough confidence to say that he'll hit enough to justify his glove being out there everyday.

I'll be the first to admit I was weary of Paul's bat coming into the year. However, upping your power and contact numbers as a young player is more rectifiable than gaining more range in your mid 30's. I remember Bill James was very high on Janish in his interviews with C Trent. I think that James guy knows a thing or two. :cool:

Bumstead
04-05-2010, 06:54 PM
Janish with his 21 doubles had a .601 OPS which is about as good as he has ever done. He's not going to get better at the plate. If Cabrera can't hit they need to trade for someone or find out if Frazier can play SS reasonably because a .600 OPS isn't going to cut it as an everyday player at the MLB level no matter how good your fielding is. Janish is a utility player at best in MLB; that's not going to change IMO.

Bum

fearofpopvol1
04-05-2010, 06:59 PM
Not bad at all -- especially for Votto, Stubbs and Rolen.

Harang's been cooked for the better part of 2 years, him getting lit isn't exactly news. There'll be better days at the yard for the pitching, but it was nice to see the bats out there doing work.

3 ER in 5 innings isn't exactly getting "cooked" or "lit" today. It wasn't an excellent outing for Harang, but it wasn't bad. If you want to talk about someone that got lit, it was Nick Masset. Lincoln wasn't worlds better.

_Sir_Charles_
04-05-2010, 07:00 PM
Not bad at all -- especially for Votto, Stubbs and Rolen.

Harang's been cooked for the better part of 2 years, him getting lit isn't exactly news. There'll be better days at the yard for the pitching, but it was nice to see the bats out there doing work.

I'm not sure 5 IP / 5 hits / 3 er / 2 bb / 2 k's is exactly getting lit up. Overall, I thought Aaron pitched pretty decently. Nice velocity, nice movement. His biggest problem was Dusty's insistence on pitching to Poo Holes.

forfreelin04
04-05-2010, 07:02 PM
I'm not sure 5 IP / 5 hits / 3 er / 2 bb / 2 k's is exactly getting lit up. Overall, I thought Aaron pitched pretty decently. Nice velocity, nice movement. His biggest problem was Dusty's insistence on pitching to Poo Holes.

Don't forget 2 HBP.

_Sir_Charles_
04-05-2010, 07:08 PM
Janish with his 21 doubles had a .601 OPS which is about as good as he has ever done. He's not going to get better at the plate. If Cabrera can't hit they need to trade for someone or find out if Frazier can play SS reasonably because a .600 OPS isn't going to cut it as an everyday player at the MLB level no matter how good your fielding is. Janish is a utility player at best in MLB; that's not going to change IMO.

Bum

It's statements like that that I have a problem with. Nobody here knows this for fact. Nobody.

Paul's worked on his strength the past year and a half. He certainly got results in his 40 ab's this spring. Not too many Reds had better springs than Paul did.

But even if he DOES struggle at the plate, Cabrera hasn't exactly lit the world on fire with his bat either. I'm sure the stat-guys can show it better than I can, but when you take offense and defense together (especially considering Orlando's defensive trends)...I'd guess that Paul's numbers would produce more W's.

_Sir_Charles_
04-05-2010, 07:10 PM
Don't forget 2 HBP.

Actually, just one. That pitch did NOT hit Holliday. Didn't even hit his jersey.

But besides, as Mem says...they probably deserved it and they know why. :O)

Bumstead
04-05-2010, 07:22 PM
It's statements like that that I have a problem with. Nobody here knows this for fact. Nobody.

Paul's worked on his strength the past year and a half. He certainly got results in his 40 ab's this spring. Not too many Reds had better springs than Paul did.

But even if he DOES struggle at the plate, Cabrera hasn't exactly lit the world on fire with his bat either. I'm sure the stat-guys can show it better than I can, but when you take offense and defense together (especially considering Orlando's defensive trends)...I'd guess that Paul's numbers would produce more W's.

Dude, don't get started on the defensive metrics. I buy them when they are only used to compare defense; when they are combined with offensive metrics they are weighted too much toward defense and nobody has convinced me that they are not. Just show me where a guy with an OPS of .600 has helped a winning team over any length of time since the '90s. He is like a 2nd pitcher almost at the plate. Spring training...believe what you want. Reds fans get attached to their own players and that is understandable but one should understand each player's limitations. Janish has never proven to have any ability to hit at any level. I do not believe that that is going to change. He was given an extensive tryout late last season and OPS'ed .600...that's bad; he needs to improve that by 100 points for it to even be reasonable on this team. IMHO

Bum

westofyou
04-05-2010, 07:26 PM
Trying to say Paul Janish can learn to hit is akin to saying that a crap sandwich will taste better after a couple of them go down.

Either accept that he can't hit and take him as what he is (Adam Everett) or move on, he'll never be much with the bat.

Kc61
04-05-2010, 07:31 PM
One of the biggest things that stood out for me today, was the complete lack of range exhibited by our new shortstop Orlando Cabrera. That ball hit up the middle should've been an EASY double-play ball. Janish makes that play without question. Add in the fact that he was one of (if not THE) the hottest hitters in spring...and you've got to at least consider starting him over Cabrera.

I said before the season that Harang, Bruce, and Cabrera were the three key players on the team. Harang must start to win some games, the Reds can't have another 6-win season from him. Bruce has to provide acceptable offense, not like last year.

Cabrera is equally important. You are right that last September's infield defense was outstanding and it resulted in wins. Reds cannot have a subpar shortstop -- particularly if OC doesn't hit.

We should give him some time. The particular ball up the middle, well, maybe he just got a bad jump on it. But it is something worth following, for sure.

flyer85
04-05-2010, 07:35 PM
just one loss. I'd rather have had the Reds go with Hanigan, Francisco and Janish and not have brought in Hernandez and Cabrera. They are olds guys whose play, both offensively and defensively, seems to fallen off in the last 2-3 years.

bucksfan2
04-05-2010, 07:39 PM
There is a reason Aaron Harang loses games. He pitched ok today, sans Pujols, but he made a key mistake today. His errant pick off throw that allowed Pujols to score from third is unacceptable. The Reds had just cut the StL lead to 3-2 and the bad throw upped the score to 4-2. Often its the small things that lead to winning and losing. Today the Reds didn't do the small things but the Lincoln 2nd inning will hide those mistakes.

TheNext44
04-05-2010, 07:41 PM
Trying to say Paul Janish can learn to hit is akin to saying that a crap sandwich will taste better after a couple of them go down.

Either accept that he can't hit and take him as what he is (Adam Everett) or move on, he'll never be much with the bat.

But if Paul Janish did become Adam Everett, that would mean that he did learn to hit. Everett had two years in his prime when he OPS'd over .700. Janish in his brief career has OPS'd .582.

I don't think anyone thinks Janish can be more than Adam Everett or Jason Bartlett, but if he did become those guys, that would mean that he has improved with the bat and deserves to start.

pedro
04-05-2010, 07:43 PM
I was somewhat troubled but what appeared to be a severe lack of range by Cabrera today. Hopefully it was just bad jumps and it doesn't become a serious issue.

westofyou
04-05-2010, 07:53 PM
But if Paul Janish did become Adam Everett, that would mean that he did learn to hit. Everett had two years in his prime when he OPS'd over .700. Janish in his brief career has OPS'd .582.

I don't think anyone thinks Janish can be more than Adam Everett or Jason Bartlett, but if he did become those guys, that would mean that he has improved with the bat and deserves to start.

Barlett OPS' .879 last year, Everett ops .700 and .703 as his best and that was 7 years ago, the two don't even belong in the same discussion

TheNext44
04-05-2010, 07:59 PM
Barlett OPS' .879 last year, Everett ops .700 and .703 as his best and that was 7 years ago, the two don't even belong in the same discussion

Bartlett before last year:

.276 .337 .362 .699

and it includes his first season:

.241 .316 .335 .651


Yeah, Barlett is better than Everett, but both had noodles for bats for most of their careers and justified them with their gloves.

WMR
04-05-2010, 08:03 PM
just one loss. I'd rather have had the Reds go with Hanigan, Francisco and Janish and not have brought in Hernandez and Cabrera. They are olds guys whose play, both offensively and defensively, seems to fallen off in the last 2-3 years.

Agreed. Add the Hernandez, Cabrera, and Lincoln money together and you can almost afford to get an honest to goodness good/great baseball player. The Reds have improved in this area quite a bit, but they still have a predilection towards signing replacement/sub-replacement level guys to multi-million dollar contracts.

Plug in your cheap assets likely to provide similar production to the older, expensive veterans and go get yourself an actual game changer.

_Sir_Charles_
04-05-2010, 08:19 PM
Dude, don't get started on the defensive metrics. I buy them when they are only used to compare defense; when they are combined with offensive metrics they are weighted too much toward defense and nobody has convinced me that they are not.

Fair enough. I haven't seen one I trust either. But for me, on this club...I want that elite glove for short. Add more offense in left and third if needed. But I want WELL above average defense up the middle.


Just show me where a guy with an OPS of .600 has helped a winning team over any length of time since the '90s. He is like a 2nd pitcher almost at the plate. Spring training...believe what you want. Reds fans get attached to their own players and that is understandable but one should understand each player's limitations. Janish has never proven to have any ability to hit at any level. I do not believe that that is going to change. He was given an extensive tryout late last season and OPS'ed .600...that's bad; he needs to improve that by 100 points for it to even be reasonable on this team. IMHO

Bum

Up to this point, you're right. He hasn't shown much at the plate. But we're talking about very small sample sizes here at the bigs. Basically a month and a half of regular playing time. Will he ever hit for power? Probably not. Will he ever hit for average? He's got a decent shot to improve there. Will he ever have a decent OBP? Again, he's got a decent shot to improve there as well. But looking at OPS is looking at a stat that points right to his weakness at the plate. Slugging.

You play him for his defense. You play him regularly and let him adjust to the pitching. Give him time to improve and get more comfortable.

I'm curious, what do people expect from a MLB shortstop's bat? I'm guessing the last 20 years has drastically changed the expectations. The way I look at it, if you're going to sacrifice defense at short for more offense...then that offense should be WAY above average. Cabrera's not that.




Trying to say Paul Janish can learn to hit is akin to saying that a crap sandwich will taste better after a couple of them go down.

Either accept that he can't hit and take him as what he is (Adam Everett) or move on, he'll never be much with the bat.

I'm not saying Janish can "learn" to hit. He already knows HOW to hit. He just does it poorly. I'm saying he can "improve". Why can't he change his approach a bit and be more patient at the plate. Work a few more walks. How much improvement is needed before people accept him as a viable starter? (not batting SECOND though...I'll NEVER understand that)

wheels
04-05-2010, 09:28 PM
There is a reason Aaron Harang loses games. He pitched ok today, sans Pujols, but he made a key mistake today. His errant pick off throw that allowed Pujols to score from third is unacceptable. The Reds had just cut the StL lead to 3-2 and the bad throw upped the score to 4-2. Often its the small things that lead to winning and losing. Today the Reds didn't do the small things but the Lincoln 2nd inning will hide those mistakes.

Wooooah!

Take it easy, little Tex.

Can you name me another time Harang has made a bad throw on a pickoff at first?

That's what you're saying here. You're saying that he's had a bad record in the past because of things like what happened today.

Do you REALLY believe that?

Falls City Beer
04-05-2010, 09:45 PM
They lost today because they pitched like dog feces (nibbling, subpar stuff, leaving crap up over the plate, low aggression, the litany of crap this team's pitchers always pull). Nothing else need be discussed. When someone wants to bust a pitch up around Pujols' neck we can talk pitching. Today we got batting practice.

It never ends with this franchise--ill preparedness meets meek stuff.

IslandRed
04-05-2010, 09:46 PM
Agreed. Add the Hernandez, Cabrera, and Lincoln money together and you can almost afford to get an honest to goodness good/great baseball player. The Reds have improved in this area quite a bit, but they still have a predilection towards signing replacement/sub-replacement level guys to multi-million dollar contracts.

Plug in your cheap assets likely to provide similar production to the older, expensive veterans and go get yourself an actual game changer.

I agree with that -- in theory. We shouldn't pay more for replacement level, true, but replacement level isn't a plan, it's a retreat position. By their very definition, replacement level players aren't assets. They're just the maximum level of bad a major-league club ought to have to suffer. No team does its offseason planning with replacement level as the target. And then we get into the theoretical availability of replacement level players versus the real-life absence of them at those positions in our organization this offseason, and the scratch-off-ticket nature of trying to pick them up on the cheap from other sources.

Odds are, if we didn't sign Hernandez and Cabrera, we'd have spent the money on a different veteran catcher and a different shortstop who had at least a remnant of a stick. Those were glaring needs. The Reds front office may well end up being wrong in who they signed, but I don't fault them for a second for aiming above replacement level.

Lincoln was a sunk cost going into this past offseason, so his money wasn't going to be available, but as a sunk cost I was in favor of going ahead and eating it.

Falls City Beer
04-05-2010, 09:51 PM
The sooner Chapman's up rattling Pujols' or Rasmus's brainpans the better. Give me all the stones this kingdom has to offer. Enough nibblers and 87 MPH fastballs.

Good lord, I'm already sick of this incarnation of the team.

paintmered
04-05-2010, 09:58 PM
The sooner Chapman's up rattling Pujols' or Rasmus's brainpans the better. Give me all the stones this kingdom has to offer. Enough nibblers and 87 MPH fastballs.

FWIW, the GABP radar had Harang's fastball at 93-94 in the first inning and 91-92 in the fifth. It was good to see him regain his velocity from yesteryear.
It doesn't change the fact that Harang was mediocre today. But absent the fielding errors and the bullpen, it may have been enough for a winning effort.

Falls City Beer
04-05-2010, 10:00 PM
FWIW, the GABP radar had Harang's fastball at 93-94 in the first inning and 91-92 in the fifth. It was good to see him regain his velocity from yesteryear.
It doesn't change the fact that Harang was mediocre today. But absent the fielding errors and the bullpen, it may have been enough for a winning effort.

Yeah, it certainly wasn't all on Harang. I remember saying to myself when I checked in during the 5th inning: "Only 4 runs surrendered in almost 5 innings? Be still my heart." But then, tempering my expectations leaves me okay with 4 runs surrendered in 5 innings against a lineup that minus its two top hitters looks like a AAA outfit.

We've really got to stand for greater things, greater tomorrows. Them's some low expectations.

Caveat Emperor
04-05-2010, 10:02 PM
FCB is right though -- Harang wasn't attacking hitters today. When he was at his best, he was starting hitters off with a good fastball for a strike and taking control of the AB. When he got to 2 strikes, he'd put hitters away with a sharp breaking ball that was completely absent today.

Harang may have been throwing 91-93 today, but he wasn't even remotely aggressive enough.

paintmered
04-05-2010, 10:11 PM
There's also no excuse for the 1-2 hitters in the lineup to reach base once in 10 combined ABs. The Reds might as well hit Votto lead-off if this continues. If he's going to come to the plate with the bases empty, there might as well be no outs when he does it.

Falls City Beer
04-05-2010, 10:14 PM
There's also no excuse for the 1-2 hitters in the lineup to reach base once in 10 combined ABs. The Reds might as well hit Votto lead-off if this continues. If he's going to come to the plate with the bases empty, there might as well be no outs when he does it.

The offense wasn't great, but come on, against Carpenter, no one's going to mash. I thought they got about all they could get out of this offense today. Conversely, on pitching, they were about as bad as you could hope.

Sure, Cabrera should never have been signed. And yeah, the two spot is no place to put him, but complaining about him and his position in the lineup is greatly missing the point when you surrender 11 runs to, frankly, a pretty unimposing lineup.

Falls City Beer
04-05-2010, 10:20 PM
Sidenote: the Reds are probably not going to be any kind of a threat until Volquez is back and Chapman is starting.

Captain Hook
04-05-2010, 10:28 PM
FCB is right though -- Harang wasn't attacking hitters today. When he was at his best, he was starting hitters off with a good fastball for a strike and taking control of the AB. When he got to 2 strikes, he'd put hitters away with a sharp breaking ball that was completely absent today.

Harang may have been throwing 91-93 today, but he wasn't even remotely aggressive enough.

Seemed like Pujols had something to do with that.AH seemed to easily strike out the first 2 then quickly jumped ahead of Albert 0-2 only to see the next pitch deposited over the CF wall.

I think Aaron is just a start or 2 away from regaining his confidence that has to be down a little after a few years of battling injuries and getting no run support.That's what it will take for him to be able to put a deep ball from one of the best hitters the game has ever seen behind him and go on attacking hitters.Until then I can live with what he gave the team today.

KronoRed
04-05-2010, 10:37 PM
Sidenote: the Reds are probably not going to be any kind of a threat until Volquez is back and Chapman is starting.

If the season hinges on two "Maybe could be great" then lets just enjoy the chili instead.

Falls City Beer
04-05-2010, 10:42 PM
If the season hinges on two "Maybe could be great" then lets just enjoy the chili instead.

I'm not that fatalistic. I think one of Chapman/Volquez will be a great arm for the Reds. They need TOR. And the Reds do not currently have a TOR in their rotation.

jojo
04-05-2010, 10:47 PM
Dude, don't get started on the defensive metrics. I buy them when they are only used to compare defense; when they are combined with offensive metrics they are weighted too much toward defense and nobody has convinced me that they are not.

Then why not convince others they are?

OnBaseMachine
04-05-2010, 11:17 PM
Just got back from the game:

1. Why in the world was Drew Stubbs not in the lineup? He should have been in CF and leading off. He looked very good in his two atbats - a line drive single to LCF and then a sharp groundball down the third base line that the 3B made a nice play on to rob him of a double.

2. Aaron Harang was hitting 93/94 and had a good curveball early on, unfortunately he served up two homers and made a horrible pickoff throw that cost the Reds a run. The good news is his velocity was very good.

3. Orlando Cabrera looks very slow all the way around. Foot speed and bat speed. His range today reminded me of Jeff Keppinger from two years ago.

4. The offense was pretty good, surprisingly. Joey Votto was great as usual. Scott Rolen looked very good as well. His homer was scortched and he had another homer that Rasmus robbed him of. Jay Bruce also had a solid line drive single and worked the count to 3-2 twice.

5. The defense had a bad day. Harang threw away a pickoff attempt, Scott Rolen tripped on a groundball by Molina, and Dickerson had Pujols out at the plate by 20 feet but threw the ball well over Hernandez's head.

6. Ramon Hernandez has warning track power. Two different times he got a great pitch to hit and both times the ball died at the warning track.

7. The ball was flying out today. Yadier Molina's grand slam had no business even reaching the warning track. It looked like a routine flyball off the bat.

8. Why is Mike Lincoln on this team? And why was he allowed to pitch in a two run game?

9. Logan Ondrusek looked good.

10. It was nice attending another Opening Day but would it hurt the Reds to win one every now and then? I've been to 10 Opening Day's - the Reds are 2-8 in those games.

jojo
04-05-2010, 11:21 PM
6. Ramon Hernandez has warning track power. Two different times he got a great pitch to hit and both times the ball died at the warning track.

7. The ball was flying out today. Yadier Molina's grand slam had no business even reaching the warning track. It looked like a routine flyball off the bat.

Double whammy kick to the groin.... :cool:

mth123
04-05-2010, 11:22 PM
Just got back from the game:


10. It was nice attending another Opening Day but would it hurt the Reds to win one every now and then? I've been to 10 Opening Day's - the Reds are 2-8 in those games.

Just happens to coincide with the lost decade. Been blaming Marge, Lindner, WK, WJ, Cast, Dano, John Allen and Bowden when it was your fault all along.;)

OnBaseMachine
04-05-2010, 11:23 PM
Double whammy kick to the groin.... :cool:

Yep. From what I saw, Hernandez put good wood on both pitches, unfortunately, he no longer has the power that he did a few years ago. The Reds probably aren't going to get more than 10 homers from the catcher position this season.

Will M
04-06-2010, 12:01 AM
Just got back from the game:

1. Why in the world was Drew Stubbs not in the lineup? He should have been in CF and leading off. He looked very good in his two atbats - a line drive single to LCF and then a sharp groundball down the third base line that the 3B made a nice play on to rob him of a double.

2. Aaron Harang was hitting 93/94 and had a good curveball early on, unfortunately he served up two homers and made a horrible pickoff throw that cost the Reds a run. The good news is his velocity was very good.

3. Orlando Cabrera looks very slow all the way around. Foot speed and bat speed. His range today reminded me of Jeff Keppinger from two years ago.

4. The offense was pretty good, surprisingly. Joey Votto was great as usual. Scott Rolen looked very good as well. His homer was scortched and he had another homer that Rasmus robbed him of. Jay Bruce also had a solid line drive single and worked the count to 3-2 twice.

5. The defense had a bad day. Harang threw away a pickoff attempt, Scott Rolen tripped on a groundball by Molina, and Dickerson had Pujols out at the plate by 20 feet but threw the ball well over Hernandez's head.

6. Ramon Hernandez has warning track power. Two different times he got a great pitch to hit and both times the ball died at the warning track.

7. The ball was flying out today. Yadier Molina's grand slam had no business even reaching the warning track. It looked like a routine flyball off the bat.

8. Why is Mike Lincoln on this team? And why was he allowed to pitch in a two run game?

9. Logan Ondrusek looked good.

10. It was nice attending another Opening Day but would it hurt the Reds to win one every now and then? I've been to 10 Opening Day's - the Reds are 2-8 in those games.

i have been thinking about why the Reds seem to ALWAYS lose opening day. i think it is because our best pitchers have been guys who are #2 or #3 starter material. our opponents often have a #1 starter.

i actually like the Reds rotation more than the Cards. the Cards have two aces but then the 3-4-5 guys could be a disaster. currently the Reds have a bunch of MOR guys. would you rather have a #1 #1 #4 #5 #5 or a #2 #3 #3 #3 #3? i'd rather have the Cards rotation in the postseason but would take the Reds in a 162 game season.

Plus some of the MOR guys the Reds have could improve. Bailey has TOR potential. I think Cueto could be a #2. Then theres also Chapman & Volquez next year

Will M
04-06-2010, 12:03 AM
Yep. From what I saw, Hernandez put good wood on both pitches, unfortunately, he no longer has the power that he did a few years ago. The Reds probably aren't going to get more than 10 homers from the catcher position this season.

i said in the game thread that i was really hoping Baker would pinch hit Gomes for Hernandez in the 8th. a shot to the gap ties the game (Stubbs on 1B)) & a shot over the wall gives the Reds the lead.

Reds1
04-06-2010, 12:07 AM
Not sure I agree that this game was anything like last year. Last year the pen was fantastic and they just sucked. Bruce has some great swings on Carpenter and like said somehwere - six runs when he starts. Harang really wasn't that bad. he had them off balance. The HR ball was just going today. Reds had more opportunities. It's one game so I refulse to freak. It does suck as opening days have gone the wrong way lately.

WebScorpion
04-06-2010, 02:18 AM
It's nice to hear others who saw many of the same things I did.

I think the Orlando Cabrera experiment is going to go the way of last year's Alex Gonzalez experiment...I hope they pull the rip-cord on their reserve (Janish) a lot quicker this year. It's only one game, but OC had worse range than AGon! :eek:

Logan Ondrusek is this year's Nick Masset...unfortunately, Nick Masset is now last year's Jared Burton. One game, I know but that's the feeling I'm getting. Lincoln actually looked better to me except he was up on everything...it looked like he just needed to get on top more and he'd be ok...still a little hope there.

I'm pretty sure I've seen Adam Dunn make that exact throw that Dickerson made. Plenty of arm with NO accuracy. UGH. :(

Harang looked much better than last year...looking forward to seeing the rest of the rotation. This gives me hope.

Rolen, Votto, Bruce, and BPhil looked good at the plate...BPHIL WALKED!! :notworthy Oh, and Stubbs looked really comfortable at the plate too. :thumbup:

Hopefully, a lot of it is rust and they'll shake it off quickly.

It's good to finally have some baseball to watch! :clap::rockband::clap:

11larkin11
04-06-2010, 03:15 AM
Just got back from the game:

1. Why in the world was Drew Stubbs not in the lineup? He should have been in CF and leading off. He looked very good in his two atbats - a line drive single to LCF and then a sharp groundball down the third base line that the 3B made a nice play on to rob him of a double.

2. Aaron Harang was hitting 93/94 and had a good curveball early on, unfortunately he served up two homers and made a horrible pickoff throw that cost the Reds a run. The good news is his velocity was very good.

3. Orlando Cabrera looks very slow all the way around. Foot speed and bat speed. His range today reminded me of Jeff Keppinger from two years ago.

4. The offense was pretty good, surprisingly. Joey Votto was great as usual. Scott Rolen looked very good as well. His homer was scortched and he had another homer that Rasmus robbed him of. Jay Bruce also had a solid line drive single and worked the count to 3-2 twice.

5. The defense had a bad day. Harang threw away a pickoff attempt, Scott Rolen tripped on a groundball by Molina, and Dickerson had Pujols out at the plate by 20 feet but threw the ball well over Hernandez's head.

6. Ramon Hernandez has warning track power. Two different times he got a great pitch to hit and both times the ball died at the warning track.

7. The ball was flying out today. Yadier Molina's grand slam had no business even reaching the warning track. It looked like a routine flyball off the bat.

8. Why is Mike Lincoln on this team? And why was he allowed to pitch in a two run game?

9. Logan Ondrusek looked good.

10. It was nice attending another Opening Day but would it hurt the Reds to win one every now and then? I've been to 10 Opening Day's - the Reds are 2-8 in those games.

This. I love how everyone is acting like Bruce went 0-5 with 5 Ks swinging at pitches in the dirt or a foot outside. Phillips also worked the count, which I like to see.

fearofpopvol1
04-06-2010, 03:59 AM
This. I love how everyone is acting like Bruce went 0-5 with 5 Ks swinging at pitches in the dirt or a foot outside. Phillips also worked the count, which I like to see.

He had a lot of bad swings and was fooled several times. I'm not getting too caught up over the performance of 1 day, but he did not look good today in my opinion.

GAC
04-06-2010, 05:40 AM
i have been thinking about why the Reds seem to ALWAYS lose opening day. i think it is because our best pitchers have been guys who are #2 or #3 starter material. our opponents often have a #1 starter.

And that's pretty much it as far as I'm concerned. We threw a guy out there that hasn't even be close to being a #4 or #5 starter for the last couple of years vs their #1, while our 15 game winner sat the bench because he's not a fan of day games, really has no desire to be the #1 starter, and wanted to instead sit back and enjoy the festivities of the Opening Day....

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100303&content_id=8658692&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin


The decision ultimately came down to the fact that, as much as Harang wanted the assignment, Arroyo also wasn't all that interested in being the Reds' No. 1 starter.

"If I had my choice, I'd rather pitch two or three," Arroyo said. "Cincinnati is one of the few places that Opening Day is really like a holiday. For that reason, it's probably a little tough to concentrate on that day. There's so much stuff going on. I'd rather enjoy that day, soak in all the festivities and pitch the next day or day after that."

When I read that several weeks ago it kinda pee'd me off. He's not interested in being the Red's #1 starter? Well gee Bronson, I'm sorry, but last year you were. So did you soak in and enjoy all the festivities yesterday Bronson? And he's not even pitching on Wednesday, but is scheduled to start the day game on Thursday. What's the logic in that? :rolleyes:

Ltlabner
04-06-2010, 07:19 AM
Seemed like Pujols had something to do with that.AH seemed to easily strike out the first 2 then quickly jumped ahead of Albert 0-2 only to see the next pitch deposited over the CF wall.
.

Was going to post the exact same thing. Was at the game and he went after the first two guys. For a second I thought..."now this is Arron". Then Pujols crushed one and from there out it was timid Arron.

puca
04-06-2010, 08:10 AM
I didn't see this mentioned yet.

I thought Dusty got a great matchup in that 7th inning when the game was still in doubt. Francisco (and then Dickerson) versus the RH Mott. I've been a Dusty basher for the most part, but I thought he played that one very well. It is rare for an opposing manager to get such a favorable matchup late in the game against LaRussa.

Caveat Emperor
04-06-2010, 08:59 AM
He had a lot of bad swings and was fooled several times. I'm not getting too caught up over the performance of 1 day, but he did not look good today in my opinion.

Worse than his bad swings, though, were the balls he let go by that were right in his hitting zone.

The difference between a great hitter and everyone else is that a great hitter consistently punishes you for making mistake pitches in the zone. Bruce, at this point in his career, is still letting those pitches sail by or swinging through them.

bucksfan2
04-06-2010, 10:10 AM
Wooooah!

Take it easy, little Tex.

Can you name me another time Harang has made a bad throw on a pickoff at first?

That's what you're saying here. You're saying that he's had a bad record in the past because of things like what happened today.

Do you REALLY believe that?

Little Tex, don't understand that.

No I am not saying that Aaron Harang makes bad pickoff throws on a regular basis. I am just saying that the is a reason that Harang loses games. I heard a Cardinal player yesterday saying something to the extend of Carpenter just finds a way to win games. Well Harang finds a way to lose games.

It was a mistake that was made, probably a mistake that won't be made by Harang for a long time now. But it was a mistake that shouldn't have been made. It was a pointless throw that had me saying "Same old Reds".

Bumstead
04-06-2010, 10:25 AM
Then why not convince others they are?

JoJo, I knew you would catch that! :p:

A lot of over-reaction here. .6% of the season is over and Chapman is the best pitcher ever (mostly because the Red's pitchers had a bad day; cause he certainly hasn't proven that he is an ace...yet!), Cabrera was a horrible idea and Dusty hasn't figured out that Pujols without PEDS is better than Bonds was with PEDS...I think we will have a better idea 19 games from now how good the Reds will or will not be this year. 2 years from now, I think they will be very good.

Discounting the Cardinals and their lineup? How many times have they won the division with a similar lineup or worse? Perception could be wrong. IMHO

Bum

Ltlabner
04-06-2010, 10:47 AM
Two big caveats here: I fully understand it was one game. Also, I fully understand I'm Mr. Mudville after the past two seasons.

But yesterday I saw nothing that said the 2010 Reds would be materially different than the 2009 Reds. Mental errors abounded:
Arron going to "nibblesville" instead of being aggressive
Arron and his errant pickoff attempt on Rasmus (He of the 3 stolen bases in 2009).
Rolen cutting off the throw to home that *might* have gotten the runner.
Dickerson throwing the ball to Marty in the booth instead of too home that *possibly* catches The Cyborg.
Giving up a flipping GrandSlam to Yadier Molina (he of the 6 home runs in 2009).
Bruce continuing to look very shaky at the plate.

OCAB looked very slow at short. One would think after the likes of Keppenger and AGON having an aging, slowing SS wouldn't be a great plan. Hopefully it's only one game and he's just not all stretched out yet (or something).

Even the pregame interview with Bobby C before the game (on WLW) was less than inspiring. He basically said that when they claimed to want to bring winning baseball to Cincy when they bought the team they didn't mean right away. That whole "the losing stops now" didn't really mean "now". You could tell he was a man who's heart is in the right place, and genuinely wants to do well, but who's embarrassed for shooting off his mouth and not delivering.

The big positive I took away from yesterday was that it was an absolutely perfect day for baseball and the Cinnamon breadsticks in the 4192 club rawk. It's only one game and is hopefully an aberration but it didn't leave one with the warm and fuzzies of a game well played but just didn't work out.

membengal
04-06-2010, 10:55 AM
I didn't see the game and could barely listen to it the way work blew up yesterday.

But from what I have read from all the comments and what not, the only observation from yesterday's tremendously small sample size that gives me pause are the observations from a bunch of you that Cabrera looked hella slow at SS. That's a problem if that was not simply a one day aberration.

Otherwise, in a Carpenter vs. Harang day, that came about around where one might reasonably expect it would, with the Cardinals having more runs.

Given how bad opening days have been of late in Cincy in terms of on-field play, one would think we would have gotten used to the near-annual drubbing and slow down the over-reacting.

RANDY IN INDY
04-06-2010, 10:56 AM
For a very tall pitcher, Harang's fastball is incredibly flat. He does not use his height to his advantage. No downward angle on his fastball. When it comes to fastballs, "flat" is also "fat."

wheels
04-06-2010, 05:10 PM
I didn't see the game and could barely listen to it the way work blew up yesterday.

But from what I have read from all the comments and what not, the only observation from yesterday's tremendously small sample size that gives me pause are the observations from a bunch of you that Cabrera looked hella slow at SS. That's a problem if that was not simply a one day aberration.

Otherwise, in a Carpenter vs. Harang day, that came about around where one might reasonably expect it would, with the Cardinals having more runs.

Given how bad opening days have been of late in Cincy in terms of on-field play, one would think we would have gotten used to the near-annual drubbing and slow down the over-reacting.

That's how I look at the whole thing as well.

Oh, and Cabrera does look like he's in quicksand.

I'm just waiting for Reds44 to start calling him Seabass :D.

Captain Hook
04-06-2010, 05:51 PM
Logan Ondrusek is this year's Nick Masset...unfortunately, Nick Masset is now last year's Jared Burton. One game, I know but that's the feeling I'm getting. Lincoln actually looked better to me except he was up on everything...it looked like he just needed to get on top more and he'd be ok...still a little hope there.




After just one game I get the same feeling.I don't think there is anything unfortunate about it though.If Masset is going to struggle then someone is going to have to step in and pitch the 8th in close games and we are lucky that we have that someone on the team.

I've seen a lot of concern with the BP early and I have to disagree.The Reds just have too many options to have a poor BP this season.IMO enough of those options will pitch well enough for the 2010 BP to equal the 2009 BPs performance.

OnBaseMachine
04-06-2010, 06:46 PM
From John Fay:


The spot Lincoln came in seemed perfect for Micah Owings. Miguel Cairo pinch-hit for Aaron Harang in the fifth, and then Lincoln pitched the sixth.

Owings could have hit for Harang and then stayed in the game. The Reds were down a run when Cairo hit. Owings is a much greater threat to hit a homer than Cairo. (A home run every 21 at-bats versus a home run every 120 at-bats).


http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/04/06/perfect-spot-for-owings/

RedsManRick
04-06-2010, 07:23 PM
For a very tall pitcher, Harang's fastball is incredibly flat. He does not use his height to his advantage. No downward angle on his fastball. When it comes to fastballs, "flat" is also "fat."

It seems like he used to have some tail on it - and doesn't anymore. Is that just me?

HokieRed
04-06-2010, 07:24 PM
2 things from being at the game: first, I drew Fay's conclusion yesterday; the fact Dusty ran Lincoln out for two means to me he has no confidence in Owings at the moment.

Second, three positives from an otherwise lackluster performance: 1. Stubbs' hand speed is even better than I thought it was; he should play every day. Dickerson isn't remotely comparable in upside; 2. Rolen showed some power, something we worried about a lot last year; 3. Juan Francisco. Attacks the ball.

redsmetz
04-06-2010, 11:15 PM
2 things from being at the game: first, I drew Fay's conclusion yesterday; the fact Dusty ran Lincoln out for two means to me he has no confidence in Owings at the moment.

Second, three positives from an otherwise lackluster performance: 1. Stubbs' hand speed is even better than I thought it was; he should play every day. Dickerson isn't remotely comparable in upside; 2. Rolen showed some power, something we worried about a lot last year; 3. Juan Francisco. Attacks the ball.

That's not the conclusion Fay reached. He suggested that Baker may not be confident about warming Owings up, then bringing him to pinch hit before he pitches. That's entirely different than not having confidence in him at all.

I'm not alarmed about the game after thinking about it. I do agree that what we saw of Cabrera's range in a couple of instances is possible reason for concern. The first time, I immediately said that Janish would have had that. My daughter and nephew disagreed, but I think he would have. I do agree with others though that if Cabrera's range is bad and he's not hitting much, they'll go with Janish. As someone said, they've shown they're not afraid to move a player to the backseat (they did it with both Patterson and Taveras, RZ perception not withstanding).

I think that Harang overall pitched reasonably well. A few pitches here and there that weren't good, doesn't mean we can extrapolate what his 2010 will be. I agree too with those who said that Dusty misused Lincoln. Lincoln's probably good for one inning usually, or for mop up. On Massett, Bruce got back there in time for a catch (it was just over the wall), but wasn't positioned well to make the leaping catch. Game of inches, really.

I left the game feeling that it wasn't unreasonable to believe it was just one game. It was and I'm not going to make it carry so much weight for this season.

And Pujols? Sheesh, the guy is a beast. He's going to beat more than his share of teams throughout this season and more. He's so talented, I can't dislike the guy. I wish he'd save his heroics for smacking someone else around.

And Pujols,

Captain Hook
04-07-2010, 12:33 AM
And Pujols? Sheesh, the guy is a beast. He's going to beat more than his share of teams throughout this season and more. He's so talented, I can't dislike the guy. I wish he'd save his heroics for smacking someone else around.


He's the enemy!:duel:

Screwball
04-07-2010, 12:50 AM
It seems like he used to have some tail on it - and doesn't anymore. Is that just me?

Without checking Pitch f/x or anything, yes, it is just you. I noticed quite a bit of tail on his fastball, esp. the first couple of innings. Hell, his HR to Pujols was a fastball he started on the outside edge of the plate that came back to dead center. We all know where that one ended up...