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Reds Fanatic
04-05-2010, 10:21 PM
St. Louis starter Chris Carpenter threw out a number of baseballs during the course of the game Monday. Then he threw a fastball at the Great American Ball Park operations department.

The Cardinals ace criticized the balls for being too slick, echoing comments he made a year ago.


The full story is at this link:

http://cnati.com/cincinnati-reds/carpenter-balls-at-gabp-are-subpar-001690/

Captain Hook
04-05-2010, 10:25 PM
My dislike for the Cards seem to grow more and more every time we play them.If this was really a problem wouldn't the umpires step in and do something?

wolfboy
04-05-2010, 10:29 PM
According to this blurb from the Enquirer, the umpires are responsible for this:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100405/SPT04/304050008/Reds+notebook++Rare+day+for+Masset+



SLIPPERY SLOPE: Cardinals ace Chris Carpenter complained afterward that the baseballs were not prepared properly.

Major League Baseball rule 3.01 (c) states that before every game, an umpire must properly rub down the required number of balls to remove the gloss of newness.

For more than 70 years, the same substance has been applied Lena Blackburne Baseball Rubbing Mud.

Caveat Emperor
04-05-2010, 10:31 PM
You stay classy, Chris...

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/file.php?40,file=5477,filename=wahmbulance.jpg

westofyou
04-05-2010, 10:41 PM
They won, tell em to shut up... all I know is Pujols should be dusting himself off after the 1st pitch he sees tomorrow.

Joseph
04-05-2010, 10:45 PM
They won, tell em to shut up... all I know is Pujols should be dusting himself off after the 1st pitch he sees tomorrow.

Do they still do that in baseball? I know I sure as hell miss seeing it, but it seems like I never do anymore.

Caveat Emperor
04-05-2010, 10:57 PM
They won, tell em to shut up... all I know is Pujols should be dusting himself off after the 1st pitch he sees tomorrow.

Hit 'em with the first pitch, then intentionally walk him for the rest of the series.

HeatherC1212
04-05-2010, 11:15 PM
Big Baseball Pet Peeve: The winning team whining about something stupid, especially after winning the game by a large margin. :explode:

TheNext44
04-05-2010, 11:52 PM
I can understand Harang, Lincoln or Masset complaining, but Carpenter???

Chip R
04-05-2010, 11:56 PM
I can understand Harang, Lincoln or Masset complaining, but Carpenter???


Well, it wasn't his fault he gave up those home runs.

dougdirt
04-05-2010, 11:57 PM
Big Baseball Pet Peeve: The winning team whining about something stupid, especially after winning the game by a large margin. :explode:

He complained about it during the game and I am sure after the game someone asked about it, which is why he talked about it again.

TheNext44
04-06-2010, 12:03 AM
To Carpenter's credit, he went out of his way to say that the only reason he was complaining was to prevent injury, and took responsibility for his performance.


"It's no big deal. I know Aaron Harang is throwing the same balls."

Carpenter said he has too much respect for Reds manager Dusty Baker and general manager Walt Jocketty to think it is intentional. He insisted it "isn't going to affect me mentally." He said his motive for complaining is out of fear that the balls will lead to injury.

Captain Hook
04-06-2010, 12:04 AM
He complained about it during the game and I am sure after the game someone asked about it, which is why he talked about it again.

I understand complaining about something during the game but after the game he should keep his mouth shut.Even if he does say something he shouldn't act as if the Reds have some kind of problem and calling them unprofessional is a little uncalled for.

dougdirt
04-06-2010, 12:21 AM
I understand complaining about something during the game but after the game he should keep his mouth shut.Even if he does say something he shouldn't act as if the Reds have some kind of problem and calling them unprofessional is a little uncalled for.

He said IF THEY DID IT ON PURPOSE, then it would be unprofessional.... and he is right.

George Anderson
04-06-2010, 01:00 AM
Here is an interesting story about the mud used on MLB baseballs.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/28/baseball.mud/index.html

Phhhl
04-06-2010, 01:24 AM
Ironic that the cardinals would be complaining about NOT enough foreign substance being applied to the game. It's funny that nobody in the media seems to recognize that these guys are villians.

Matt700wlw
04-06-2010, 01:30 AM
McGwire's the hitting coach. He's never done anything wrong.

Matt700wlw
04-06-2010, 01:42 AM
Cueto needs to throw a pitch to Pujols that buzzes his head. If he doesn't have the balls to do it, then somebody else should. Come Wednesday, I want JC to be himself and pitch a ballgame.

dougdirt
04-06-2010, 01:47 AM
Cueto needs to throw a pitch to Pujols that buzzes his head. If he doesn't have the balls to do it, then somebody else should. Come Wednesday, I want JC to be himself and pitch a ballgame.

If he beans him in the back, I am all for it. But you never throw at a guys head.

Matt700wlw
04-06-2010, 01:58 AM
I didn't say throw at his head. Buzz his head, which can happen by throwing inside. Sorry...

GAC
04-06-2010, 04:55 AM
I didn't say throw at his head. Buzz his head, which can happen by throwing inside. Sorry...

But you are still throwing in the direction of his head. Not a good thing to do IMO. All it's gonna do, if something goes bad - like the pitch goes awry and actually hits him in the head - is start retaliation, a brawl, and players getting fined and suspended.

Beat the bums on the playing field... but don't play their game.

jojo
04-06-2010, 06:19 AM
It's kinda funny...... the cardinals are totally bush league because their staff seems to hate how the balls feel at GABP but the Reds need to throw at Pujols' head because they can't get him out.... just sayin'....

Caveat Emperor
04-06-2010, 08:00 AM
It's kinda funny...... the cardinals are totally bush league because their staff seems to hate how the balls feel at GABP but the Reds need to throw at Pujols' head because they can't get him out.... just sayin'....

They should just walk him the remainder of the series. Force someone else on the Cardinals to beat them, because Pujols has proven he can and will when given an opportunity.

cumberlandreds
04-06-2010, 08:04 AM
Here is an interesting story about the mud used on MLB baseballs.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/28/baseball.mud/index.html

Yesterday when all the complaining about the baseballs was going on I remembered seeing a story about the mud to rub on the baseballs on Joe Garagiola's pre game show many many years ago. I wondered if they still did that and if it came from the same place. Looks like it does according to this report.

RANDY IN INDY
04-06-2010, 08:12 AM
Slick baseballs or not, you have to pitch Pujols inside to keep him honest. Otherwise, you have no chance of getting him out. The Reds pitchers throw Pujols way too many "fat" pitches. He will not miss many of them. Pujols or Holliday? I chose to take my chances with Holliday every time.

SunDeck
04-06-2010, 09:32 AM
I can understand Harang, Lincoln or Masset complaining, but Carpenter???

Evidently, their problem was the balls they were throwing were too big.

Eric_the_Red
04-06-2010, 12:41 PM
Masset threw inside to Pujols in the 9th yesterday, and just about got a standing ovation.

But then, we all saw how well that turned out.

savafan
04-06-2010, 12:52 PM
Don't they levy fines for simply pitching inside anymore? I think I recall Bob Watson and Frank Robinson doing that when they were the fairness czars or whatever it was called.

TeamBoone
04-06-2010, 01:17 PM
If I remember correctly, he b... er, complained about it last year too. Oddly enough, don't these umpires pretty much do their thing as teams? i.e., don't they do other games around the league together, even St Louis? Is it a problem then? I've never heard it mentioned in any other ballpark CC has pitched in.

That said, perhaps this would be a good topic for Chris Welch on Real Reds.

_Sir_Charles_
04-06-2010, 05:07 PM
Yesterday when all the complaining about the baseballs was going on I remembered seeing a story about the mud to rub on the baseballs on Joe Garagiola's pre game show many many years ago. I wondered if they still did that and if it came from the same place. Looks like it does according to this report.

They also had an episode on "Dirty Jobs" from the Discovery Channel where Mike Rowe (the host) goes to work at the place they make that mud. Funny stuff. He also went to a baseball clubhouse to rub down balls at the end (can't recall if it was a MLB or MiLB club though).

traderumor
04-06-2010, 10:33 PM
It's kinda funny...... the cardinals are totally bush league because their staff seems to hate how the balls feel at GABP but the Reds need to throw at Pujols' head because they can't get him out.... just sayin'....There's nothing bush about pitching inside to a guy who lives on top of the plate, which I think the headhunter was corrected in the thread.

vaticanplum
04-06-2010, 10:46 PM
They also had an episode on "Dirty Jobs" from the Discovery Channel where Mike Rowe (the host) goes to work at the place they make that mud. Funny stuff. He also went to a baseball clubhouse to rub down balls at the end (can't recall if it was a MLB or MiLB club though).

Did he learn from this dude?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/28/baseball.mud/index.html

Because that's kinda my favorite thing I've watched in about 10 years. (I think that link might have come from here, actually.)

Don't shoot me, but I'm sort of inclined to give Carpenter a pass here. This sounds like the kind of thing he might have been throwing out there as a totally geeked out pitching comment that got jumped on as a whining thing. I mean, as far as the baseball mechanics go, he kind of has a point. But that aside, go ahead and rag on the cardinals, don't mind me.

WVPacman
04-06-2010, 11:21 PM
Im so tired of listening these crybabys all the time.They call our pitchers cheaters and I wish the reds would just come out and say they think Pujols is cheating (steroids).Man would'nt that make it a little more interesting?:D

Spring~Fields
04-06-2010, 11:59 PM
I wonder if Duncan will have the mud police called in for Thursdays game. :oops:

GAC
04-07-2010, 04:49 AM
Im so tired of listening these crybabys all the time.They call our pitchers cheaters and I wish the reds would just come out and say they think Pujols is cheating (steroids).Man would'nt that make it a little more interesting?:D

Let them whine. I don't want our guys (team) getting the same reputation.

And I don't think Pujol's is cheating (steroids). It's mainly based on this "guilt by association" theory - almost every other star player has been implicated, so Pujols is guilty too. But he has been tested several times, has been very outspoken about the issue, and has even stated that if he is caught using performance-enhancing drugs he will pay back the Cardinals every penny he has earned.

Now some may then say - Yeah, but all those other players were saying the same thing too. True. But I don't think Pujol's is a user.

Why can't he be just a damn good ballplayer, one of the best, without using performance enhancers? An impossibility?

Spring~Fields
04-07-2010, 09:57 AM
Why can't he be just a damn good ballplayer, one of the best, without using performance enhancers? An impossibility?

Oh the little things of the human nature like jealousy, envy, bitterness, and denial. The fatal and flawed attempts to strengthen the weak by tearing down the strong. If one doesn’t understand it, doesn’t know it, it must be wrong, just shout it down. Kick a little dirt on it, that’ll fix it. Think they would perceive Pujols any differently if he was on their team? You betcha, in a convenient moment. ;)

oneupper
04-07-2010, 10:40 AM
Let them whine. I don't want our guys (team) getting the same reputation.

And I don't think Pujol's is cheating (steroids). It's mainly based on this "guilt by association" theory - almost every other star player has been implicated, so Pujols is guilty too. But he has been tested several times, has been very outspoken about the issue, and has even stated that if he is caught using performance-enhancing drugs he will pay back the Cardinals every penny he has earned.

Now some may then say - Yeah, but all those other players were saying the same thing too. True. But I don't think Pujol's is a user.

Why can't he be just a damn good ballplayer, one of the best, without using performance enhancers? An impossibility?

If the truth about Pujols and PEDs (including HGH) was known with absolute certainty (yes or no) and put in a sealed envelope and the life of your kids depended on you getting the right answer. What would you say?

I'd say yes.

Sure, he could be clean. But faced with all the evidence, anecdotal and innuendoes, and with what is at stake, i'd go with yes.

Because either he's the ultimate outlier, the exception to the exception, or he's a damn good player who got chemically pushed from the tail of the bell curve to way outside of it. The latter is just much more likely to me.

Falls City Beer
04-07-2010, 10:48 AM
If the truth about Pujols and PEDs (including HGH) was known with absolute certainty (yes or no) and put in a sealed envelope and the life of your kids depended on you getting the right answer. What would you say?

I'd say yes.

Sure, he could be clean. But faced with all the evidence, anecdotal and innuendoes, and with what is at stake, i'd go with yes.

Because either he's the ultimate outlier, the exception to the exception, or he's a damn good player who got chemically pushed from the tail of the bell curve to way outside of it. The latter is just much more likely to me.

I've never heard the anecdotal evidence. What is it?

Eric_the_Red
04-07-2010, 11:15 AM
I've never heard the anecdotal evidence. What is it?


He looks like he can bench press the Cardinals team bus.

wolfboy
04-07-2010, 11:26 AM
I've never heard the anecdotal evidence. What is it?

Some media outlets reported that his trainer was named by Jason Grimsley in an affidavit. That turned out to be false.

Some media outlets reported that Pujols was named in the Mitchell report. That turned out to be false as well.

Other than false allegations, I'm not aware of any evidence. That being said, it's hard not to be skeptical.

Falls City Beer
04-07-2010, 11:55 AM
He looks like he can bench press the Cardinals team bus.

That's not really evidence. He doesn't have any telltale signs, however: moonface, excessive acne.

OnBaseMachine
04-07-2010, 11:46 PM
From C. Trent:


Reds starter Aaron Harang brushed off the criticism of the balls - he threw the same ones Carpenter did.

"They're the only ones (complaining), you're not hearing it from anyone else," Harang said.

Harang noted that balls tend to be rubbed down differently at different parks, but it's something you deal with.

"Some stadiums, I don't know if they rub them up longer, but in Milwaukee they're pretty dark," Harang said. "You throw


http://cnati.com/cincinnati-reds/pregame-reds-brush-off-cardinal-complaints-001709/

GAC
04-08-2010, 05:14 AM
Some media outlets reported that his trainer was named by Jason Grimsley in an affidavit. That turned out to be false.

Some media outlets reported that Pujols was named in the Mitchell report. That turned out to be false as well.

Other than false allegations, I'm not aware of any evidence.

Exactly. It's again simply "guilt by association", and the fact that a lot of people, mainly his opposition, don't like the guy.

Now Pujols claims he has been tested numerous times. I have no reason to doubt that because why should he be an exception? Because he's Pujols? That hasn't helped some of these other big name players who have recently gotten nabbed.

If a player currently, under MLB policy, tests positive, it's made public and they receive a suspension. Everybody knows. So why can't a player, when tested and it's negative, also have those results made public if they so choose? And I'm assuming it has something to do with the agreement between MLB and the Player's Union.

But we see in other sports, such as boxing and others, where if a person undergoes steroid testing, and the results are negative, they are made public, so why not in MLB? I don't understand it, unless MLB and the Union IS trying to cover for some under the guise of "protecting the integrity of the game". I think they hurt it even more by their silence, which fuels these innuendos.

WVPacman
04-08-2010, 04:33 PM
Why can't he be just a damn good ballplayer, one of the best, without using performance enhancers? An impossibility?


In my mind no player can be considered as a clean player thats a damn good hitter b/c of the steroid era.I really hope Pujols is clean and is a great player BUT lets be honest now that we are in the steroid era every player that puts up monster numbers will be considered a player thats possibility using steroids.No its not fair to Pujols if he isn't using but if one day he comes out and says he did use them then everybody will have egg on their face.Thats why im not saying he isn't cheating b/c in this day of time I would'nt be surprised if he was using.

TRF
04-08-2010, 04:49 PM
Here is my problem with Carpenter's comment: If it is the umpire's responsibility to rub the baseballs, why bring Baker or Jocketty into it?

Now if the balls are rubbed by the hosting team, then it still affects both pitcher's equally, unless it is done to the home team's SP's request. Then I could see his point.

His team won, but he didn't pitch all that well, and he complains. again. Forget buzzing Pujols, Carpenter has to bat too. Drill him in the butt.

TRF
04-08-2010, 04:50 PM
In my mind no player can be considered as a clean player thats a damn good hitter b/c of the steroid era.I really hope Pujols is clean and is a great player BUT lets be honest now that we are in the steroid era every player that puts up monster numbers will be considered a player thats possibility using steroids.No its not fair to Pujols if he isn't using but if one day he comes out and says he did use them then everybody will have egg on their face.Thats why im not saying he isn't cheating b/c in this day of time I would'nt be surprised if he was using.

George Kenneth Griffey Junior.

No doubt in my mind whatsoever. completely clean.

_Sir_Charles_
04-08-2010, 04:56 PM
Did he learn from this dude?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/10/28/baseball.mud/index.html

Because that's kinda my favorite thing I've watched in about 10 years. (I think that link might have come from here, actually.)

Don't shoot me, but I'm sort of inclined to give Carpenter a pass here. This sounds like the kind of thing he might have been throwing out there as a totally geeked out pitching comment that got jumped on as a whining thing. I mean, as far as the baseball mechanics go, he kind of has a point. But that aside, go ahead and rag on the cardinals, don't mind me.

LOL. Yep, same guy. It was the very first episode of Dirty Jobs. The pilot in fact.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1272617/

OnBaseMachine
04-08-2010, 08:29 PM
CINCINNATI -- In October during his final start of the season, Bronson Arroyo was accused of doctoring baseballs with pine tar in his cap by Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan. Arroyo denied the allegation, and at the time, vowed to call Duncan before his first game this season to tell him he'd be wearing a brand-new hat.

That call wasn't placed on Thursday.

"I was going to tip my hat to him to start the game," Arroyo said. "But I'm thinking, 'Then I'm going to give up 10 runs -- that's what you get.' So I just figured I'd pitch."


http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100408&content_id=9143272&notebook_id=9150322&vkey=notebook_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

reds44
04-08-2010, 08:35 PM
Oh I wish he would have done that. I love BA's attitude.

GAC
04-09-2010, 05:37 AM
No its not fair to Pujols if he isn't using but if one day he comes out and says he did use them then everybody will have egg on their face.

And if it's shown that he never used steroids, will those who claimed he did also then have egg on their faces? ;)

I simply, for the time being, until it's proven otherwise, and not by assumption or innuendo, believe the guy. If it's proven otherwise it's not like I'm going to be aghast in shock.

But just because we are in the steroid era (or coming out of it) does not mean that every great player is a user. That's not being fair IMO.

WVPacman
04-09-2010, 11:54 PM
And if it's shown that he never used steroids, will those who claimed he did also then have egg on their faces?

LOL will if those that are'nt just going to give him a free pass in this day and time of the steroid era AND he turns out to be clean...Then they better throw some bacon and biscutts along with that egg b/c that my friend is GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD.:D

Falls City Beer
04-11-2010, 08:39 PM
Carpenter's so far given up two dingers to righthanders in Milwaukee. Slick balls? :p:

Falls City Beer
04-11-2010, 09:38 PM
Make that 3 homers to righties. Must be the balls.

OnBaseMachine
04-11-2010, 09:42 PM
Chris Carpenter allowed seven homers in 192.2 innings last season. He's already allowed five HR this season in less than 11 innings, and it could be six homers if not for Rasmus robbing Rolen of a HR. He's getting hammered tonight, and he wasn't all that sharp against the Reds on Opening Day. A better offensive team would've scored four or five runs against Carpenter on Opening Day, IMO. He'll turn 35 later this month, hopefully his days of dominating are coming to an end. It's still early though.

reds44
04-11-2010, 09:44 PM
David Freese mades Edwin look like Brooks Robinson too.

fearofpopvol1
04-11-2010, 10:07 PM
Freese is terrible with the glove. Sheesh. He's still young though, but he's bad.

Redsfan320
04-11-2010, 10:23 PM
Freese is terrible with the glove.

Better than Joe Thurston, who they had at 3rd last year. He has to be the worst defender I've seen in my short time watching the game.

320

Caveat Emperor
04-11-2010, 10:50 PM
Better than Joe Thurston, who they had at 3rd last year. He has to be the worst defender I've seen in my short time watching the game.

320

Alfonso Soriano gives him a run for his money.

OnBaseMachine
05-01-2010, 01:11 PM
From Lance McAlister's twitter:

Pujols miffed by fist pump of Masset, Ryan upset glove was wet, LaRussa miffed game went on. Cardinals=Biggest bunch of babies in baseball

http://twitter.com/LanceMcAlister

Yeah Albert, how dare Masset pump his fist after getting a huge doubleplay. It's not like you don't show anyone up when you walk half way down the first base line after hitting a HR.

reds44
05-01-2010, 01:24 PM
Just keep beating them.

Falls City Beer
05-01-2010, 01:31 PM
From Lance McAlister's twitter:

Pujols miffed by fist pump of Masset, Ryan upset glove was wet, LaRussa miffed game went on. Cardinals=Biggest bunch of babies in baseball

http://twitter.com/LanceMcAlister

Yeah Albert, how dare Masset pump his fist after getting a huge doubleplay. It's not like you don't show anyone up when you walk half way down the first base line after hitting a HR.

Tony Larussa is the most corrosively asinine human being on the earth. It's unbelievable how unprofessionally he conducts himself.

Scrap Irony
05-01-2010, 01:36 PM
They remind me of the mid-80's Mets, who couldn't ever meet a situation they couldn't excuse.

Bob Borkowski
05-01-2010, 01:44 PM
From Lance McAlister's twitter:

Pujols miffed by fist pump of Masset, Ryan upset glove was wet, LaRussa miffed game went on. Cardinals=Biggest bunch of babies in baseball

http://twitter.com/LanceMcAlister

Yeah Albert, how dare Masset pump his fist after getting a huge doubleplay. It's not like you don't show anyone up when you walk half way down the first base line after hitting a HR.

I repeat, I hate the Cardinals.

fearofpopvol1
05-01-2010, 01:59 PM
The worst part is...The Cardinals are more than likely going to win the division. Just shut up already and play baseball. Sometimes things go your way and sometimes they don't. That's true of all teams.

Personally, I thought the Reds got hosed on a LOT of pitching calls last night. But if the Reds had lost, I would not have pointed to that as the reason they lost. Again, sometimes you get the calls and sometimes you don't.

Although I don't see it happening, I would love Harang to plant a fastball on Pujols' behind today.

OnBaseMachine
05-01-2010, 02:26 PM
I gotta give LaRussa some credit though. His constant whining works as his pitchers always seem to get bigger strikezones than the opponent. I've seen a handful of pitches today called strikes for Lohse while the same exact pitch was a ball for Bailey.

traderumor
05-01-2010, 07:39 PM
I gotta give LaRussa some credit though. His constant whining works as his pitchers always seem to get bigger strikezones than the opponent. I've seen a handful of pitches today called strikes for Lohse while the same exact pitch was a ball for Bailey.That could also be because Cardinals pitcher are around the plate and hitting their marks, while guys like Bailey and Cueto are all over the place.

fearofpopvol1
05-01-2010, 08:00 PM
That could also be because Cardinals pitcher are around the plate and hitting their marks, while guys like Bailey and Cueto are all over the place.

Bailey got squeezed at least twice that I saw and they were on very important pitches that would've been strikeouts.

marcshoe
05-01-2010, 08:03 PM
I'm starting to hate the Cardinals myself. The last straw was listening on xm today and hear their announcer say, when Bailey threw a ball he didn't like out, that he must have got one of those opening day balls that weren't rubbed down.

Bunch of #^$!^%%&&%%!

Captain Hook
05-01-2010, 09:28 PM
From Lance McAlister's twitter:
Pujols miffed by fist pump of Masset, Ryan upset glove was wet, LaRussa miffed game went on. Cardinals=Big
gest bunch of babies in baseball

http://twitter.com/LanceMcAlister

Yeah Albert, how dare Masset pump his fist after getting a huge doubleplay. It's not like you don't show anyone up when you walk half way down the first base line after hitting a HR.

Anyone else see Albert's own fist pump when he drew the bases loaded walk in the 8th? Wouldn't have beed a big deal if not for this.I don't care how good he is.Too bad RZ rules prevent me from expressing my true feelings for Pujols.:rant2:

traderumor
05-01-2010, 09:35 PM
Bailey got squeezed at least twice that I saw and they were on very important pitches that would've been strikeouts.That may be so, but the consistency of a pitcher helps them get close calls. I don't know how many strikes a game I see umps miss because the pitcher simply missed the target badly.

Chip R
05-02-2010, 11:54 AM
They certainly whine a lot whenever they lose a game. Like it can't be their fault they lost.

TheNext44
05-02-2010, 01:47 PM
When I lived in St. Louis, Cardinal fans loved to refer to the Cardinals as the NL Yankees. They're getting closer.