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View Full Version : 4 issues with Dusty and only one game has been played!



Redsnake
04-06-2010, 04:50 PM
Stubbs not starting in CF? Stubbs was the hottest hitter in the last 2 weeks coming out of spring training.

Dickerson/Gomes to platoon in LF...so play Nix?? What?? This is the same guy that most expected to not make the team.

Lincoln's the first option out of the pen. I get it, long relief, but Lincoln 7.20ERA and a .346BAA against the Cards is the first choice??

Arroyo's ERA in night games are better than day games. So skip his start Wednesday night and let him start the day game Thursday? REALLY? REALLY!?!

I really wanted to wipe the slate clean with Dusty this year. Maybe it's Jocketty wanting not to waste Lincoln's $2+mil in the minors or give Nix on last chance to show why he should stay before he could be DFA for Leake. Whatever it is I don't think I have ever been more frustrated after the first game, EVER! Hell, I loved the game even if they lost.

Jack Burton
04-06-2010, 05:30 PM
Starting to think he is trying to get fired, hard to believe someone in his position can be this stupid.

Without question the worst manager in the big leagues.

Save the season, fire Dusty now.

bgwilly31
04-06-2010, 05:53 PM
yeah i said the same thing.

This has to be the most frustrated i have ever been about a manager after the very first game. :thumbdown

swaisuc
04-06-2010, 05:58 PM
I am not one to apologize for Dusty, but I disagree on some of these.

On some level, you have to admit his plan with Stubbs basically worked. He thought the kid would struggle with Carpenter, and instead he was able to start his season with 2 hits and play almost half the game anyway. Whether it was smart on paper or not, I actually think he had a plan to help Stubbs succeed out of the gate and so far it has worked.

1st out of the pen was likely going to be Lincoln or Masset. I probably would've gone Masset, but he ended up looking even worse.

I agree with you that Nix over Gomes is odd, but its not a huge deal to me.

I could go either way on Arroyo pitching Thursday. In theory, I agree with Dusty that using an innings eater like Arroyo 3rd before your back end of your rotation needs your bullpen badly makes some sense. In our case though, I'm not sure 1 of our starters is any more likely to give us innings than another. Its pretty balanced for better or worse.

Vottomatic
04-06-2010, 06:09 PM
If we have a losing record after like, say 40 games, do you think they would fire him?

Jack Burton
04-06-2010, 06:17 PM
If we have a losing record after like, say 40 games, do you think they would fire him?

Hopefully. Only reason he is still here is $. Definitely wouldn't be here if the club was only worried about winning.

He makes a smorgasboard of bonehead moves every season.

Orodle
04-06-2010, 08:55 PM
Dusty is the only issue I have with this team.

improbus
04-06-2010, 09:09 PM
Dusty did say that Dickerson was 5 for 10 against Carpenter in his career. Those are fairly solid numbers.

kfm
04-06-2010, 09:12 PM
Stubbs not starting in CF? Stubbs was the hottest hitter in the last 2 weeks coming out of spring training.

Dickerson/Gomes to platoon in LF...so play Nix?? What?? This is the same guy that most expected to not make the team.

Lincoln's the first option out of the pen. I get it, long relief, but Lincoln 7.20ERA and a .346BAA against the Cards is the first choice??

Arroyo's ERA in night games are better than day games. So skip his start Wednesday night and let him start the day game Thursday? REALLY? REALLY!?!

I really wanted to wipe the slate clean with Dusty this year. Maybe it's Jocketty wanting not to waste Lincoln's $2+mil in the minors or give Nix on last chance to show why he should stay before he could be DFA for Leake. Whatever it is I don't think I have ever been more frustrated after the first game, EVER! Hell, I loved the game even if they lost.

1. I would have started Stubbs, he had been on fire,not that I put much into spring training numbers but I would have started him. One game is not the end of the world but I get the angst over this move.

2. Pretty much same issue as number 1, should have been Stubbs and Dickerson playing.

3. This is the spot where bad middle relievers pitch. It was the sixth inning and your team is losing. That is when you pitch a guy like Lincoln. Biggest issue is why is he on the team and that is a Walt thing.

4. Totally disagree. The slotting of the pitchers is not about setting up matchups for a single series. It is about putting guys in place that makes the most sense for your team for an entire season. They are trying to separate the veteran innings eater guys and separate the young guys who are most similar to help with the bullpen. This makes perfect sense to me. I think Dusty has done so many questionable things that he is criticized for perfectly rational decisions.

5. The biggest issue from yesterdays game is Nick Masset. Was this a one game blow up or is he the latest in a line of relievers who have one good season and then stink. Obviously, it is foolish to make any judgemets based upon one game but if I were so foolish this is the one thing about yesterdays game that Reds fans should actually be concerned about. If Masset struggles this season, there bullpen looks totally different and we could be back to the eighth inning problems that looked to be solved by Jared Burton a couple of years ago.

kfm
04-06-2010, 09:15 PM
If we have a losing record after like, say 40 games, do you think they would fire him?

Yes, if Walt feels the team is underperforming I think he will make a move. 40 games is when general managers start to make judgments that fans apparently make after one. This is the first team that the Reds have had in about 10 years that has a legitimate chance to succeed and if they are say 15 and 25 after 40 I could see Dusty getting fired. If they are a couple games under .500 based upon their schedule I don't think it is likely at all that he will get fired.

Redsnake
04-06-2010, 09:23 PM
[QUOTE=kfm;2048045]1.
4. Totally disagree. The slotting of the pitchers is not about setting up matchups for a single series. It is about putting guys in place that makes the most sense for your team for an entire season. They are trying to separate the veteran innings eater guys and separate the young guys who are most similar to help with the bullpen. This makes perfect sense to me. I think Dusty has done so many questionable things that he is criticized for perfectly rational decisions.


You totally disagree that Arroyo's ERA in the day time is worse than at night?!

I understand that seperating inning eaters like Harang and Arroyo makes sense, but now you put a pitcher who stated (correct me if I'm wrong mentioned this Monday) he doesn't like pitching in day games and would have rather pitch at night. Now if he goes out and shuts them down Thursday afternoon I'm all for eating some crow. However he gets shelled, in the back of our mind we will think....maybe Arroyo was right about not wanting too pitch day games and Dusty made a mistake.

malcontent
04-06-2010, 09:27 PM
He makes a smorgasboard of bonehead moves every season.
You know as well as I that there is a lot of thought and deliberation that goes into that smorgasboard.

Cause Toothpick tells us so.

kfm
04-06-2010, 10:39 PM
[QUOTE=kfm;2048045]1.
4. Totally disagree. The slotting of the pitchers is not about setting up matchups for a single series. It is about putting guys in place that makes the most sense for your team for an entire season. They are trying to separate the veteran innings eater guys and separate the young guys who are most similar to help with the bullpen. This makes perfect sense to me. I think Dusty has done so many questionable things that he is criticized for perfectly rational decisions.


You totally disagree that Arroyo's ERA in the day time is worse than at night?!

I understand that seperating inning eaters like Harang and Arroyo makes sense, but now you put a pitcher who stated (correct me if I'm wrong mentioned this Monday) he doesn't like pitching in day games and would have rather pitch at night. Now if he goes out and shuts them down Thursday afternoon I'm all for eating some crow. However he gets shelled, in the back of our mind we will think....maybe Arroyo was right about not wanting too pitch day games and Dusty made a mistake.

I don't disagree that his era is worse during the day, it obviously is and that is a fact. I disagree with deciding to slot him in the two hole soley so his first start of his 34 starts the first week of the year is not a day game. You seem to agree with separting the young guys,separating the innings eaters and then separating guys with the most similar pitching styles. I just disagree with deciding to go against every reason to pitch him 3rd on the single basis that one of his 34 starts will be a day game. Having said all of this,if the Reds were in the playoffs I would definitely pitch Arroyo at night because now you are talking about what's best for five or seven games not 162. I hope that is clear. Over the course of an entire season every one of their starters is going to have to start a few day games. That is just the nature of the schedule.

CWRed
04-06-2010, 11:52 PM
My big issue continues to be this: Batting about the worst hitter on the team 2nd. SS all the time. Idiot. Complete idiot, that Dusty. Janish or Cabrera should never bat higher than 7th or 8th. Ever. I like Stubbs, then Dickerson (gets protection from Votto.) But anyone else is better and I think it will contiue to play out that way cuz OC has never gotten on base at a high rate.

And Rhodes should have been up and ready when Masset was getting into trouble in the 8th. He could have faced Rasmus who cannot hit lefty pitching (see at-bat against Hererra). Instead he leaves Masset in there for 5 runs, 3 hits, and 2 walks. Nice job jackass.

Nix should come off the bench early in the year and it should be Stubbs, Dickerson, or Gomes 95% of the time.

It's one game and I'm more convinced than ever that DB is the worst manager in the game today.

Ohioballplayer
04-07-2010, 12:10 AM
No offense, and not a Duhsty fan, but who doesn't play the odds LH hitter vs. right handed pitcher? and in this case both LH hitters vs Carp (one of the best RHP in the league).

Harang was so-so, nothing spectacular, Masset and Stincoln(Lincoln) looked awful and had bad days, that's the breaks on day 1. I dont mean to second guess anyone, but I might have done the same thing DUHSTY did, but I am not a Manager of a big league team, and maybe Duhsty isnt either????

kfm
04-07-2010, 12:28 AM
from C. Trents blog:

It's funny, I hear over and over how Dusty Baker lost that game for the Reds.

Does anyone win games anymore?

I'm not sure, but I seem to think Albert Pujols and Chris Carpenter had a hand in winning that game for the Cardinals.

But I guess it's more fun to blame people. That's where we are in 2010 and with the internets.

* I'm not sure if the Dusty bashers know this, but the Cardinals are good. They're kinda the favorite to win the NL Central. You know why? Because they're better than the Reds. You know what teams that are better than their oppoents usually do? Beat them.

I think the move to keep Lincoln out there was dubious, but not sure that's why they lost.

* But hey, if it makes you feel better, the sky is falling.

kfm
04-07-2010, 12:57 AM
My big issue continues to be this: Batting about the worst hitter on the team 2nd. SS all the time. Idiot. Complete idiot, that Dusty. Janish or Cabrera should never bat higher than 7th or 8th. Ever. I like Stubbs, then Dickerson (gets protection from Votto.) But anyone else is better and I think it will contiue to play out that way cuz OC has never gotten on base at a high rate.


It's one game and I'm more convinced than ever that DB is the worst manager in the game today.

I decided to look at boxscores to see where Cabrerra batted for other teams he has played for. He has played for since 2006 the Angels, Whitesox, A's and Twins. I did not look at every box score, I just looked at about 10 random box scores during almost every month of each season since 2006. He batted 3rd for the Angels most of the 2006 season, and then 2nd during the 2007 season. Ok what bout 2008 he batted either 1st or 2nd for the whitesox and in 2009 he batted second for both the A's and the Twins. So how is it possible that Dusty is an idiot for batting a guy in the exact same place that Ozzie, Mike Soscia, and Ron Gardenhire batted him? Not to mention all of these teams were better than the Reds and they all reached the post season so on better teams he batted predominantly 2 a little leadoff and a full season of 3rd. Maybe just maybe we hate Dusty so much that even when he does things that other managers do, we have to pretend he is the only person who would do this.

gilpdawg
04-07-2010, 03:43 AM
[QUOTE=kfm;2048045]1.
4. Totally disagree. The slotting of the pitchers is not about setting up matchups for a single series. It is about putting guys in place that makes the most sense for your team for an entire season. They are trying to separate the veteran innings eater guys and separate the young guys who are most similar to help with the bullpen. This makes perfect sense to me. I think Dusty has done so many questionable things that he is criticized for perfectly rational decisions.


You totally disagree that Arroyo's ERA in the day time is worse than at night?!

I understand that seperating inning eaters like Harang and Arroyo makes sense, but now you put a pitcher who stated (correct me if I'm wrong mentioned this Monday) he doesn't like pitching in day games and would have rather pitch at night. Now if he goes out and shuts them down Thursday afternoon I'm all for eating some crow. However he gets shelled, in the back of our mind we will think....maybe Arroyo was right about not wanting too pitch day games and Dusty made a mistake.
Big picture dude. The rotation is arranged for the season, not for the first series. Arranging the entire rotation just because one guy has a higher ERA in day games for the third game of the season is micro-managing at it's finest.

DaytonFlyer
04-07-2010, 09:13 AM
I thought Stubbs should've started Opening Day just because of the prestige and confidence factor, but looking at the numbers I didn't have a problem with Nix and Dickerson being out there.

What I don't understand is why Ondrusek didn't pitch the 9th after turning in a flawless 8th on few pitches. If he gets the Cards 1-2-3 in the 9th, we tie the game in the bottom of the 9th off Franklin (in theory... I know in practice the whole chain of events would've been different, but let's indulge me here).

Griffey012
04-07-2010, 09:46 AM
I decided to look at boxscores to see where Cabrerra batted for other teams he has played for. He has played for since 2006 the Angels, Whitesox, A's and Twins. I did not look at every box score, I just looked at about 10 random box scores during almost every month of each season since 2006. He batted 3rd for the Angels most of the 2006 season, and then 2nd during the 2007 season. Ok what bout 2008 he batted either 1st or 2nd for the whitesox and in 2009 he batted second for both the A's and the Twins. So how is it possible that Dusty is an idiot for batting a guy in the exact same place that Ozzie, Mike Soscia, and Ron Gardenhire batted him? Not to mention all of these teams were better than the Reds and they all reached the post season so on better teams he batted predominantly 2 a little leadoff and a full season of 3rd. Maybe just maybe we hate Dusty so much that even when he does things that other managers do, we have to pretend he is the only person who would do this.

:thumbup: If Dusty were not our manager we would be 162-0 because every time we lose it is his fault, and every time we win it is because of the players.

Krawhitham
04-07-2010, 11:46 AM
Stubbs not starting in CF?

This one I have no problem with Dickerson had a great spring and should be rewarded. Now put Stubbs in


Dickerson/Gomes to platoon in LF...so play Nix??

It is like he is trying to lose


Lincoln's the first option out of the pen.

It is like he is trying to lose


[B]Arroyo's ERA in night games are better than day games.

It is like he is trying to lose

BLEEDS
04-07-2010, 12:26 PM
Dusty did say that Dickerson was 5 for 10 against Carpenter in his career. Those are fairly solid numbers.

Right, so let him start - in LF. Stubbs in CF.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Jack Burton
04-07-2010, 01:09 PM
:thumbup: If Dusty were not our manager we would be 162-0 because every time we lose it is his fault, and every time we win it is because of the players.

Why the childish post? It's the managers duty to give his team the best chance to win ballgames... dusty doesn't do that.

kfm
04-07-2010, 11:28 PM
Why the childish post? It's the managers duty to give his team the best chance to win ballgames... dusty doesn't do that.

How is this a childish post?

Redsnake
04-08-2010, 05:28 PM
I'm here to eat some crow. Arroyo pitching today was the right choice.

So now I only have 3 issues.

kfm
04-08-2010, 07:48 PM
I'm here to eat some crow. Arroyo pitching today was the right choice.

So now I only have 3 issues.

Redsnake, I respect the heck out of you for posting that. You will be one of the only people to do something like that on this board that relates to Dusty. Now plenty of people do it about all types of other things but not Dusty.

Redsnake
04-09-2010, 01:13 PM
Thanks kfm.