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REDblooded
04-07-2010, 09:14 PM
really wasn't the place to use a rookie

Pretty much what I was thinking too... HORRIBLE time to bring in a youngster that's gonna be struggling to locate all jacked up on adrenaline... Well played captain.

flyer85
04-07-2010, 09:14 PM
Rookie. Nerves. Adrenaline.

I'm going to cut him a little slack.
he may be ok but I would have used Massett.

No reason to bring in Rhodes/Massett now. Dusty is once again bass ackwards

Tony Cloninger
04-07-2010, 09:14 PM
Then who do you use? considering how well this guy has pitched...and pitched very well on OD...when he would have been more nervous.

Danny should not have been pulled that quickly to begin with anyways...IMO.

Maybe this is just like 1979 or 1999 ...when the Reds looked terrible for the 1st 3-4 games. Maybe it's just the Cardinals ...who can do no wrong..ever.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:14 PM
I can't think of a worse situation to put a pitcher this inexperienced into a game.

WVRedsFan
04-07-2010, 09:15 PM
Rookie. Nerves. Adrenaline.

I'm going to cut him a little slack.I'll cut the kid slack, but not the guy who put him out there.

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 09:15 PM
Double to straight away center. 5-2 cards. Poor choice in Ondrusek. But kinda hard to fault Dusty too much there. Logan has been absolutely lights out since the start of spring. Better luck next time kid.

reds44
04-07-2010, 09:15 PM
Then who do you use? considering how well this guy has pitched...and pitched very well on OD...when he would have been more nervous.

Danny should not have been pulled that quickly to begin with anyways...IMO.

Maybe this is just like 1979 or 1999 ...when the Reds looked terrible for the 1st 3-4 games. Maybe it's just the Cardinals ...who can do no wrong..ever.
Him and Lincoln are the last two people out of your pen right now.

Again, if these two are pitching against Pujols and Holliday (and through 2 games, it's happend twice) the Reds are in for another year of bad.

flyer85
04-07-2010, 09:16 PM
it's the difference between Dusty and Tony. LaRussa understands the concept of leverage, Dusty has no idea other than his script said it was too early to use the back end of the pen.

HokieRed
04-07-2010, 09:16 PM
Don't want to use up that whole bullpen.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:16 PM
Rhodes in to pitch

reds44
04-07-2010, 09:16 PM
It was the 7th inning. Go Massett/Rhodes/Cordero the next three innings, then if it gets to extras you go to Ondrusek, DRH, Owings, etc.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:16 PM
Rasmus lays down a perfect sac bunt. Runner on 3rd with 1 out.

Tony Cloninger
04-07-2010, 09:17 PM
Why not find out what he can do in a pressure situation? 2nd game of the year....and the season is over? OK.

Might as well find out real quick that Lincoln still stinks...and Logan cannot be used in real pressure situations...YET.

Soon Burton will be here to replace Lincoln.

Screwball
04-07-2010, 09:17 PM
Rhodes in to pitch 3 batters late

There ya go. ;)

reds44
04-07-2010, 09:18 PM
Why not find out what he can do in a pressure situation? 2nd game of the year....and the season is over? OK.

Might as well find out real quick that Lincoln still stinks...and Logan cannot be used in real pressure situations...YET.

Soon Burton will be here to replace Lincoln.
We all knew Lincoln was bad.

There is a 0% chance that Lincoln is on this team come September. Why Walt feels the need to try to see if he is less bad the first month of the season makes no sense.

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 09:18 PM
It was the 7th inning. Go Massett/Rhodes/Cordero the next three innings, then if it gets to extras you go to Ondrusek, DRH, Owings, etc.

Good call. My bad. I lost track of the inning. I thought it was the 6th.

flyer85
04-07-2010, 09:18 PM
Why not find out what he can do in a pressure situation?
why not use a guy that pitched well in that situation last year

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:19 PM
Ludwick strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

edabbs44
04-07-2010, 09:21 PM
It was the 7th inning. Go Massett/Rhodes/Cordero the next three innings, then if it gets to extras you go to Ondrusek, DRH, Owings, etc.

Because Masset was lights out on Monday?

Screwball
04-07-2010, 09:21 PM
My guess is Dusty's kicking himself for choosing Ondrusek over someone like Rhodes this inning. Unfortunately, this was a very costly managerial mistake.

Kc61
04-07-2010, 09:21 PM
The problem is that the Reds never replaced David Weathers. Their late innings bullpen is short one serious reliever.

Facing the right handed middle of the order there, I could see keeping Masset on the bench. He just got tattooed on Monday.

But there wasn't much choice.

Nothing more frustrating than bullpen losses.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:21 PM
Molina walks. 1st and 3rd.

Hoosier Red
04-07-2010, 09:21 PM
I can't think of a worse situation to put a pitcher this inexperienced into a game.

Just curious who do you put in there?
RHP: Masset(who you'll need later) Cordero? Owings? Lincoln?

I assume he made the majors for a reason.

reds44
04-07-2010, 09:21 PM
Because Masset was lights out on Monday?
So one bad outing to start the year overshadows everything he did all season last year?

Ondrusek is the last guy I bring in there, well second to last after Lincoln.

HokieRed
04-07-2010, 09:21 PM
It's the Burton of early 2008 that we miss.

WVRedsFan
04-07-2010, 09:22 PM
Wainwright in the on-deck circle.

reds44
04-07-2010, 09:22 PM
Just curious who do you put in there?
RHP: Masset(who you'll need later) Cordero? Owings? Lincoln?

I assume he made the majors for a reason.
Masset/Rhodes
Rhodes/Masset
Cordero

that's how the last 3 innings should have gone.

Screwball
04-07-2010, 09:23 PM
Freese's bloops piss me off.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:23 PM
Just curious who do you put in there?
RHP: Masset(who you'll need later) Cordero? Owings? Lincoln?

I assume he made the majors for a reason.

I would have probably kept Herrera in longer to begin but I would went to Masset at that point.

edabbs44
04-07-2010, 09:23 PM
So one bad outing to start the year overshadows everything he did all season last year?

Ondrusek is the last guy I bring in there, well second to last after Lincoln.

No, but if Masset comes in and gets ripped, I guarantee someone second-guesses Dusty and asks why they bring him in after he gets roasted on Monday.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:24 PM
Bloop single by Freese. 6-2 Cards.

Kc61
04-07-2010, 09:24 PM
So one bad outing to start the year overshadows everything he did all season last year?

Ondrusek is the last guy I bring in there, well second to last after Lincoln.

Rhodes is a lefty. Not the guy to face Pujois and Holliday. '

Lincoln and Owings not the answer there. Masset just got bombed on Monday, maybe you don't use him.

It's personnel. The bullpen is actually weaker than last year's.

The Reds ignored the bullpen this winter. Wasn't a priority. Some good young arms in the system. Here's the result.

reds44
04-07-2010, 09:24 PM
No, but if Masset comes in and gets ripped, I guarantee someone second-guesses Dusty and asks why they bring him in after he gets roasted on Monday.
I wouldn't have, I would have roasted Masset for being bad to start this season.

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 09:24 PM
No, but if Masset comes in and gets ripped, I guarantee someone second-guesses Dusty and asks why they bring him in after he gets roasted on Monday.

Bingo. I was thinking the same thing. Tough crowd. :O)

REDblooded
04-07-2010, 09:25 PM
Freese's bloops piss me off.

Looks like they found a guy to replace Eckstein...

reds44
04-07-2010, 09:25 PM
Rhodes is a lefty. Not the guy to face Pujois and Holliday. '

Lincoln and Owings not the answer there. Masset just got bombed on Monday, maybe you don't use him.

It's personnel. The bullpen is actually weaker than last year's.

The Reds ignored the bullpen this winter. Wasn't a priority. Some good young arms. Here's the result.
Well by this line of thinking, the Reds are going to be bad this year.

So I'll just blame Dusty and have hope for the rest of the season.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:26 PM
Wainwright strikes out looking. The inning is finally over. 6-2 Cards mid 7th.

WVRedsFan
04-07-2010, 09:26 PM
I said 5, but it was only 4 runs in the inning. Regardless, that sealed the game. When will be win?

REDblooded
04-07-2010, 09:26 PM
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/simpsontee/Misc/saddusty_la.gif

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:29 PM
Rolen flies out to center and Bruce pops out to short.

reds44
04-07-2010, 09:30 PM
RT @Dannyromanello: @johnfayman I apologize if that logic blew your mind. I know how simple minded your veiw. . . then stop following me.
Gotta love Fay.

Screwball
04-07-2010, 09:32 PM
And the Reds immediately fail to fight back. I didn't expect the Reds to win either of these first two games (Carp and Wainwright are pretty damn good), but this is still disheartening.

reds44
04-07-2010, 09:32 PM
Gomes has K'd three times tonight.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:32 PM
Gomes strikes out swinging for the 3rd time. 6-2 Cards after 7.

Mario-Rijo
04-07-2010, 09:33 PM
I take everything positive I said about Bruce in the offseason back he obviously still hasn't learned/relaxed enough to let the ball travel to him. As soon as he quits jumping at the ball he will blow up.

REDblooded
04-07-2010, 09:33 PM
Unreal... Gomes has a 9 pitch AB, and Reds still manage to go down in order on 12 pitches...

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 09:34 PM
I find it kinda hard to get too upset at this point. Reds starters haven't been too bad at all. Cards have been getting flares & bloops left & right both games. The pen will settle down. And we've faced 2 of the best starting pitchers in the NL. This one ain't over yet, but then again...neither is the season. Stay positive guys.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:35 PM
Masset in to pitch the 8th

reds44
04-07-2010, 09:35 PM
We've given up 17 runs in 16 innings for a team that's strength is supposed to be pitching.

Here's Masset vs. the same guys he should have been facing in the 7th.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:35 PM
Schumaker grounds out to 1st.

flyer85
04-07-2010, 09:36 PM
bringing in Masset to pitch in the 8th makes the 7th inning decisions high comedy

Tony Cloninger
04-07-2010, 09:36 PM
IF Burton gets his stuff back together....then that will help.

IF not ..then yes they clearly were over confident that this bullpen would be the same.

You are right about Bruce.....he looks futile to me..as just about anyone not named Votto usually does with this team.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:37 PM
Ryan strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

reds44
04-07-2010, 09:39 PM
Yeah.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:39 PM
Pujols strikes out swinging. 6-2 Cards mid 8th.

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 09:40 PM
Nice 1-2-3 from Masset. Nice to see him bounce back from his brutal first outting.

As for Votto...0-3?!? What the heck! Time to trade the slacker!

Screwball
04-07-2010, 09:40 PM
I'm sure Dusty had his reasons, but Masset's dominance there just made his decision in the 7th look silly.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:41 PM
Kyle McClellan in to pitch

Cyclone792
04-07-2010, 09:41 PM
bringing in Masset to pitch in the 8th makes the 7th inning decisions high comedy

It's simply mind-boggling. We're only two games into the season, and we've already seen the brutal results from the dugout dice.

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 09:41 PM
Nix in the ODC

corkedbat
04-07-2010, 09:42 PM
Grrrr just got home. Had the Reds game recorded on the HD Channel on the DVR. Ended up with the sotty Blue Jackets. The guide said it was the Reds game. :(

flyer85
04-07-2010, 09:42 PM
It's simply mind-boggling. We're only two games into the season, and we've already seen the brutal results from the dugout dice.
Reds manager is crapped out

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:43 PM
Hernandez lines a double to left center.

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 09:43 PM
Ramon with a lead off 2 bagger.

Gotta love the St. Louis bullpen. :O) Let's go guys!!!!

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:44 PM
Nix hitting for Masset

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:45 PM
Nix strikes out looking. 1 out.

Raisor
04-07-2010, 09:45 PM
Hernandez lines a double to left center.

http://www.google.com/images?q=tbn:w0QY6h-lBLfBvM::www.lat34.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/razor1.jpg&t=1&h=196&w=141&usg=__vRnFNLuEZSEz9Q27g1WgcFEcF1c=

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 09:45 PM
Nix k's on a pitch called a ball all night. 1 down. Top of the order coming up.

TheNext44
04-07-2010, 09:46 PM
It's simply mind-boggling. We're only two games into the season, and we've already seen the brutal results from the dugout dice.


It's simply mind-boggling. We're only two games into the season, and we've already seen over re-actions towards manager's decisions. ;)

Masset got creamed his last time out. If he went out for the seventh to face the top of the lineup and Pujols in a tie game, everyone would be jumping on Baker for that.

Lefthander to start the 7th inning against a LH hitter. Then bring in the guy who was lights out in spring training and in his one inning on Monday. No roll of the dice there, simple logic that 30 out of 30 managers would have made there.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:47 PM
Stubbs strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

reds44
04-07-2010, 09:47 PM
Stubbs swung at a shoulder high pitch on 2-1, changed the entire AB.

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 09:47 PM
Drew K's swinging.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:48 PM
Cabrera doubles down the left field line. 6-3 Cards.

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 09:48 PM
Cabrera with a double down the line. 6-3 cards. Votto up.

edabbs44
04-07-2010, 09:48 PM
And Cabrera is in the lead for FA signing of the year. :)

Matt700wlw
04-07-2010, 09:48 PM
Cabrera!

Screwball
04-07-2010, 09:48 PM
Who was that saying Cabrera wasn't making a good first impression?? :D

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:48 PM
Reyes coming in to pitch

flyer85
04-07-2010, 09:49 PM
it makes no sense to run Massett out there in the 8th down 4 runs. If he wanted to use the youngster in the 7th fine, but why run Masset out in the 8th.

Tom Servo
04-07-2010, 09:49 PM
Remember when Taveras started off decent?


Just saying.

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 09:50 PM
Well, the 2 guys people were worried about earlier today...Ramon & Orlando...

4 for 7, 3 rbis and 2 runs scored...so far.

(Orlando & Rolen were the 2 *I* was worried about)

reds44
04-07-2010, 09:50 PM
it makes no sense to run Massett out there in the 8th down 4 runs. If he wanted to use the youngster in the 7th fine, but why run Masset out in the 8th.
I'll let John Fay answer this one.



johnfayman Masset's 8th inning guy. It was either Lincoln, Owings or Ondrusek. Threw 10 scoreless in spring. Looked great on Mon. Didn't work tonite.


Masset was in for the 8th inning, well, because he is the 8th inning guy of course.

Cyclone792
04-07-2010, 09:50 PM
It's simply mind-boggling. We're only two games into the season, and we've already seen over re-actions towards manager's decisions. ;)

Over reacting? Hardly.

Dude, we've already seen two years of Dusty's beautiful work. What he's done in two games this year is just standard procedure.

Matt700wlw
04-07-2010, 09:51 PM
Big Sweat!

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:52 PM
Votto strikes out swinging. 6-3 Cards after 8.

flyer85
04-07-2010, 09:54 PM
Masset was in for the 8th inning, well, because he is the 8th inning guy of course.

Like I said earlier, Dusty has no concept of leverage.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:54 PM
Cordero in to pitch

reds44
04-07-2010, 09:54 PM
Bringing in Masset and Cordero for the 8th and 9th make the Ondrusek choice look even dumber.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:55 PM
Holliday grounds out.

Raisor
04-07-2010, 09:55 PM
It's simply mind-boggling. We're only two games into the season, and we've already seen over re-actions towards manager's decisions. ;)



we've also reached our quota on people complaining about the complaining.

And with this my post, we've had enough complaining about the complaining about the complaining.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:56 PM
Rasmus continues to hit singling to right.

Tony Cloninger
04-07-2010, 09:56 PM
I do not think Nick is only the 8th inning guy....Rhodes can be as well. I think Rhodes/Masset can go either way in the 7th/8th.

But i guess we will just go with what the majority is saying...since there are no more games left to make any future adjustments.

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 09:57 PM
Cheer up guys. The cubs just lost. :O)

flyer85
04-07-2010, 09:58 PM
I think Rhodes/Masset can go either way those kind of guys ... versatile

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 09:58 PM
Ludwick strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 09:59 PM
Rasmus is impressing me right now the same way Bruce was impressing me during his initial call up. He looks VERY solid in all phases of the game....unfortunately.

TheNext44
04-07-2010, 10:00 PM
Over reacting? Hardly.

Dude, we've already seen two years of Dusty's beautiful work. What he's done in two games this year is just standard procedure.

I felt like I got hit in the stomach when the Reds hired Baker. Disliked the move, dislike his lineups, dislike his approach to advanced stats, wish the Reds had almost anyone else...

However, he has hands down been the best manager of a pitching staff, especially the bullpen, the Reds have had since Davey Johnson.

Screwball
04-07-2010, 10:01 PM
Anybody think the Reds got 3 in 'em?

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 10:01 PM
Molina grounds out to 2nd. 6-3 Cards mid 9th.

Phillips, Rolen and Bruce due up.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 10:03 PM
Ryan Franklin in to pitch

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 10:04 PM
Anybody think the Reds got 3 in 'em?

*raises hand*

But then again, I ALWAYS do. I'm kinda dumb that way. :p:

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 10:04 PM
Phillips grounds out to short.

reds44
04-07-2010, 10:04 PM
Nice AB to start the 9th by Phillips.

Raisor
04-07-2010, 10:07 PM
Ryan Franklin in to pitch

SCAB!

Cyclone792
04-07-2010, 10:08 PM
I felt like I got hit in the stomach when the Reds hired Baker. Disliked the move, dislike his lineups, dislike his approach to advanced stats, wish the Reds had almost anyone else...

However, he has hands down been the best manager of a pitching staff, especially the bullpen, the Reds have had since Davey Johnson.

McKeon handled the bullpen better than Baker does now. Of course, McKeon had better arms - specifically Williamson, Graves and Sullivan - though it could be argued that the overall bullpen talent we have now is fairly close to what McKeon had.

My problem tonight is that Logan Ondrusak has no business entering a tie game in the 7th inning with a man on, nobody out and Albert Pujols on deck. I don't care how well he pitched in spring training, this is a guy who entered that situation with exactly one inning of big league experience and 22 innings of AAA experience. Ondrusak isn't even a guy with over-powering stuff, and he's not going to go in there and blow people away.

A guy like Ondrusak should be broken in early in lower leverage situations. They don't have to be mop-up situations, but at least lower leverage than what we had tonight. The situation Ondrusak was put in tonight should never have happened, not in the 7th inning of a tie game with a man on, nobody out and the greatest right-handed hitter in over a half century waiting on deck.

Baker made a managerial decision where he was just simply asking to give the game away, and giving the game away is exactly what he got. He deserves to lose tonight's game.

REDblooded
04-07-2010, 10:08 PM
Franklin really isn't good, so there's a sliver of hope here...

Also, I've decided the best move for the Reds at this point would be to keep Baker on as a really well paid bench coach... Browse these forums for 100 bright reds fans... Pay the fans $1/game each, and have them vote in real time on the correct decision concerning actual game management... Dusty just executes the decision. Reds win. Profit.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 10:08 PM
Rolen singles off Franklin's foot

RBA
04-07-2010, 10:09 PM
Rolen almost gave up on that one.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 10:11 PM
Bruce lines out to right. 2 outs.

Screwball
04-07-2010, 10:11 PM
Alright Welsh, Ryan seems to be a fine defensive SS and all, but stop with the talk that Cards fans have concerning him and Ozzie. One was the greatest defensive wizard this generation has seen. The other, well, isn't.

Side note: Ryan also has a ways to go to become the fitness czar of St. Louis. True story.

Homer Bailey
04-07-2010, 10:11 PM
Is this unlucky crap gonna happen to Jay Bruce again this year?

Raisor
04-07-2010, 10:11 PM
Bruce lines out to right. 2 outs.

Bruuuuce?

REDblooded
04-07-2010, 10:11 PM
If Gomes bats here I give up...

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 10:11 PM
Crud. Bruce POUNDED that ball. Nice play by Ludwick. Crud.

RedsManRick
04-07-2010, 10:11 PM
Bruce picking right back up with the hit the ball well and have it find a glove anyway routine.

reds44
04-07-2010, 10:12 PM
Fitting.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 10:12 PM
Gomes lines out to right as Ludwick makes a diving catch to end the game. Reds lose 6-3.

Matt700wlw
04-07-2010, 10:12 PM
Awesome. An 0-2 start.

WVRedsFan
04-07-2010, 10:12 PM
Great fielding saves a shaky Franklin and the Reds lose. As usual.

REDblooded
04-07-2010, 10:12 PM
0-3 with 3 K's... huge lefty/right split... leave him in as the final out against a RHP... Terribly brilliant...

Tom Servo
04-07-2010, 10:13 PM
The real person we should be mad at is the guy who filled out the schedule that made us play the Cardinals to start the season.

Screwball
04-07-2010, 10:13 PM
If Cueto would've gone against the Reds' lineup, he would've gone about 47 innings on 72 pitches.

_Sir_Charles_
04-07-2010, 10:13 PM
Seriously? Gomes with a scalding liner...Ludwick another great catch.

Just not our night fellas. You can point all the fingers you want to, but tonight, the ball just bounced the cards way and they made the plays. The Reds actually hit the ball MUCH better than the cards...just not "where they ain't".

Mario-Rijo
04-07-2010, 10:14 PM
Is this unlucky crap gonna happen to Jay Bruce again this year?

And that time he actually stayed back on the pitch. Needs to find that consistently. BTW I have never seen a more clumsy, awkward looking fielder who keeps finding the ball (Ludwick).

Bob Borkowski
04-07-2010, 10:15 PM
I hate the Cardinals from top to bottom.

Raisor
04-07-2010, 10:15 PM
Glad they play early tomorrow. Got to get right back on the horse!

wally post
04-07-2010, 10:15 PM
I can't think of one thing that the Cardinals did not do perfectly tonight; bunting, hit and run, changing pitchers... and it sure seems to me... talent. But leaving the talent aside (and not going into position by position comparisons) the Cardinals are a well managed and wonderfully executing team. Pretty much every inning, I felt that the Reds fell short - whether it be not working the pitchers to moving runners over - or even fielding at times. (Thank God for Rolen at least) I only wish the Reds could/will learn from this. I'm bummed.

Reds Fanatic
04-07-2010, 10:16 PM
Arroyo pitches tomorrow. Hopefully he pitches better than he normally does in day games.

Kc61
04-07-2010, 10:17 PM
Arroyo pitches tomorrow. Hopefully he pitches better than he normally does in day games.

Hopefully he doesn't need bullpen help.

mbgrayson
04-07-2010, 10:17 PM
TV announcers made a good point: we can hang our heads if we want, but the Reds just faced two of last year's top three NL Cy Young pitchers. No doubt they have work to do, and this sure won't be a wire to wire year, but lets all hang in there!

Raisor
04-07-2010, 10:23 PM
Arroyo pitches tomorrow. Hopefully he pitches better than he normally does in day games.

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/pete_mcentegart/07/13/ten.spot/tx_arroyo.jpg

marcshoe
04-07-2010, 10:27 PM
Glad they play early tomorrow. Got to get right back on the horse!

They're going to be playing on horses tomorrow? Sweet! :cool:

Spring~Fields
04-07-2010, 10:30 PM
St. Louis 6, Cincinnati 3

Scoring Summary
Top 2nd: St. Louis
- D. Freese singled to shallow center, C. Rasmus scored, Y. Molina to second

Top 3rd: St. Louis
- R. Ludwick singled, M. Holliday scored, C. Rasmus to third

Bot 6th: Cincinnati
- O. Cabrera homered to deep left, D. Stubbs scored

Top 7th: St. Louis
- A. Pujols singled to left center, S. Schumaker scored, B. Ryan to third
- M. Holliday doubled to deep center, B. Ryan and A. Pujols scored
- D. Freese singled to shallow center, M. Holliday scored, Y. Molina to second

Bot 8th: Cincinnati
- O. Cabrera doubled to left, R. Hernandez scored


Cincinnati
AB R H RBI HR BB K SB LOB
Stubbs cf 3 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 2
Cabrera ss 4 1 2 3 1 0 0 1 1
Votto 1b 4 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 1
Phillips 2b 4 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0
Rolen 3b 3 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0
Bruce rf 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2
Gomes lf 4 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 2
Hernandez c 3 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
Cueto p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Dickerson ph 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0
Herrera p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Ondrusek p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Rhodes p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Masset p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Nix ph 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1
Cordero p 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Totals 31 3 6 3 1 2 9 1 9




Reds Batting
2B - O Cabrera (1, K McClellan); R Hernandez (1, K McClellan).
HR - O Cabrera (1, 6th inning off A Wainwright 1 on, 1 Out).
S - J Cueto.
RBI - O Cabrera 3 (3).
2-out RBI - O Cabrera.
Runners left in scoring position, 2 out - O Cabrera 1, J Votto 1.
Team LOB - 4.

Reds Base Running
SB - O Cabrera (1, 3rd base off D Reyes/Y Molina).

CS - B Phillips (1, 2nd base by A Wainwright/Y Molina).

Pitching


Cincinnati
IP H R ER BB K HR
J. Cueto 6.0 5 2 2 3 3 0
D. Herrera 0.0 1 1 1 0 0 0
L. Ondrusek 0.0 2 3 3 1 0 0
A. Rhodes 1.0 1 0 0 1 2 0
N. Masset 1.0 0 0 0 0 2 0
F. Cordero 1.0 1 0 0 0 1 0


Reds/Cards
HPB - Y Molina (by J Cueto).

Pitches-strikes - A Wainwright 95-62; K McClellan 19-13; D Reyes 4-3;
R Franklin 12-7; J Cueto 109-65; D Herrera 2-2; L Ondrusek 9-4;
A Rhodes 20-10; N Masset 10-7; F Cordero 17-10.

Ground balls-fly balls - A Wainwright 7-5; K McClellan 1-0; D Reyes 0-0;
R Franklin 2-0; J Cueto 8-8; D Herrera 0-0; L Ondrusek 0-0; A Rhodes 0-0;
N Masset 1-0; F Cordero 3-0.

Batters faced - A Wainwright 25; K McClellan 4; D Reyes 1; R Franklin 4;
J Cueto 27; D Herrera 1; L Ondrusek 3; A Rhodes 5; N Masset 3;
F Cordero 4.

Raisor
04-07-2010, 10:32 PM
They're going to be playing on horses tomorrow? Sweet! :cool:

First there was Donkey Basketball, now it's Pony Baseball.

REDblooded
04-07-2010, 10:39 PM
Caught this when looking at the Blue Jays box score... Encarnacion 2 errors on the season.

Will M
04-07-2010, 10:41 PM
McKeon handled the bullpen better than Baker does now. Of course, McKeon had better arms - specifically Williamson, Graves and Sullivan - though it could be argued that the overall bullpen talent we have now is fairly close to what McKeon had.

My problem tonight is that Logan Ondrusak has no business entering a tie game in the 7th inning with a man on, nobody out and Albert Pujols on deck. I don't care how well he pitched in spring training, this is a guy who entered that situation with exactly one inning of big league experience and 22 innings of AAA experience. Ondrusak isn't even a guy with over-powering stuff, and he's not going to go in there and blow people away.

A guy like Ondrusak should be broken in early in lower leverage situations. They don't have to be mop-up situations, but at least lower leverage than what we had tonight. The situation Ondrusak was put in tonight should never have happened, not in the 7th inning of a tie game with a man on, nobody out and the greatest right-handed hitter in over a half century waiting on deck.

Baker made a managerial decision where he was just simply asking to give the game away, and giving the game away is exactly what he got. He deserves to lose tonight's game.

Dusty's bullpen use had me scratching my head for a 2nd straight game. Where's Price? Speak up buddy. You're the pitching coach.

Lincoln: mop up man
Ondrusek: rookie who pitches middle relief in low pressure situations
Cordero, Rhodes, Herrera, Masset & Owings: non rookies who have some amount of talent that pitch in close games

The Reds score NINE runs in two games off two guys who were 1-2 in the Cy Young Award ballotting last year. Yet we are 0-2. Our pitching gave up 17 runs in two games. Yuck. I repeat Yuck!

reds44
04-07-2010, 10:57 PM
TV announcers made a good point: we can hang our heads if we want, but the Reds just faced two of last year's top three NL Cy Young pitchers. No doubt they have work to do, and this sure won't be a wire to wire year, but lets all hang in there!
We gave up 17 runs in the first two games of this series, that has nothing to do with who pitched against us.

Hoosier Red
04-07-2010, 11:19 PM
0-3 with 3 K's... huge lefty/right split... leave him in as the final out against a RHP... Terribly brilliant...

Dickerson and Nix had already hit. Who are you batting there?

forfreelin04
04-07-2010, 11:34 PM
Dickerson and Nix had already hit. Who are you batting there?

Francisco.

I don't let Gomes touch a righty with grade A-B stuff like Wainwright, Carpenter, and even Loshe.

REDblooded
04-08-2010, 12:15 AM
Francisco.

I don't let Gomes touch a righty with grade A-B stuff like Wainwright, Carpenter, and even Loshe.

Bingo...

Marc D
04-08-2010, 12:24 AM
The Reds score NINE runs in two games off two guys who were 1-2 in the Cy Young Award ballotting last year. Yet we are 0-2. Our pitching gave up 17 runs in two games. Yuck. I repeat Yuck!


No they didn't.

They scored 2 runs off Carpenter on 2 solo HR's. They scored 2 runs off Wainright on a 2R HR. That's 4 runs in 13 IP off those two guys for a 2.77 ERA. The rest were on the Cards pen.

reds44
04-08-2010, 12:55 AM
Francisco.

I don't let Gomes touch a righty with grade A-B stuff like Wainwright, Carpenter, and even Loshe.
You have to save Francisco for the pitchers spot, which was 2 spots later.

Will M
04-08-2010, 12:55 AM
No they didn't.

They scored 2 runs off Carpenter on 2 solo HR's. They scored 2 runs off Wainright on a 2R HR. That's 4 runs in 13 IP off those two guys for a 2.77 ERA. The rest were on the Cards pen.

ok. what's your point?

my point is that the Reds scored nine runs in two games started by Carpenter & Wainright. thats pretty darn good IMO & its quite disappointing to be 0-2 when the offense seems to have done its job fairly well.

REDblooded
04-08-2010, 12:58 AM
You have to save Francisco for the pitchers spot, which was 2 spots later.

which is when you bring in Owings...

reds44
04-08-2010, 01:13 AM
which is when you bring in Owings...
You really would rather have Francisco/Owings up than Gomes/Francisco? I wouldn't.

REDblooded
04-08-2010, 01:36 AM
You really would rather have Francisco/Owings up than Gomes/Francisco? I wouldn't.

Gomes was 0-3 against righties on the night with 3 k's... He's a career .224 hitter vs. rhp's.

Meanwhile Francisco has hit righties nearly 40 points better than he hits lefties in his minor league career and is 9 for 19 vs. them in the majors... Consider the fact that Franklin really doesn't miss bats, and he's the right choice here... Owings is a career .300 hitter if it gets that far... still not a bad option, and if he's batting the chances are it's either ending with his AB or ending as a win...

Batting Gomes there though is pretty much waving a white flag.

REDblooded
04-08-2010, 01:46 AM
For the record... the 3 strikeouts by Gomes came on only 15 pitches before that AB... and one AB was a 9 pitch affair... That's right... He struck out on 3 pitches in his first 2 ab's... Not like he's even putting up a fight against rhp's at that point.

Ron Madden
04-08-2010, 03:26 AM
it is interesting to see Gomes in there vs a RHP. i suspect the playing time in CF & LF is 'up for grabs' and whoever plays well gets to play more.

Dickerson's 'laser' throw to the vicinity of home plate monday didn't help his "my glove makes up for my lack of power" case.

That was a bad throw but Dickerson also made a great throw to second base to hold Pujols to a single earlier in the game.

Ron Madden
04-08-2010, 03:57 AM
THAT is why Janish is not your starting shortstop.

Should silence the haters for a while.

Why does anyone have to be called a "Hater"? We are all Reds Fans here, we all have our own opinions and try to discuss those opinions with other Reds Fans. Pointing out and discussing a weakness in a player doesn't have to involve hatred. I hate the term/label "Hater". ;)

Ron Madden
04-08-2010, 04:27 AM
I felt like I got hit in the stomach when the Reds hired Baker. Disliked the move, dislike his lineups, dislike his approach to advanced stats, wish the Reds had almost anyone else...

However, he has hands down been the best manager of a pitching staff, especially the bullpen, the Reds have had since Davey Johnson.

Because the Reds haven't really had many talented pitchers since Davey Johnson.

I've said it before and will again "The only difference between Dusty Baker and Jerry Narron is Baker has always had more talented players".

Hoosier Red
04-08-2010, 09:54 AM
Francisco.

I don't let Gomes touch a righty with grade A-B stuff like Wainwright, Carpenter, and even Loshe.

How about Ryan Franklin? His stuff hardly qualifies.

If you're afraid to end the game with Gomes batting against a RH, then you certainly wouldn't want to put Francisco up in such high pressure. He might never recover. :rolleyes: