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fewfirstchoice
04-07-2010, 09:27 PM
Baker has to be the worst manager in baseball. Come on bring in a rookie in a tie ball game after your team just tied it up. He has no idea how to manage a pitching staff let alone a whole team. He also tends to put young players in situations were they cant succeed.Ill will be very happy the day ole Bob gets Dusty out of GABP it will be a day for Reds fans to rejoice.

SullyGator
04-07-2010, 09:47 PM
Or the players could do their jobs.

Mutaman
04-07-2010, 10:32 PM
Or the players could do their jobs.


How dare you blame it on the players, its always Bakers fault. And 99% of the time when complaining about Baker, its a second guess.

Just a miserable amateurish perforformance by Ondrusek. First he can't get it over the plate to Ryan, then he serves it on a tee to Albert, then he completely falls apart.

On the bright side, Cueto looked great. I think he looked much more mature than in past years. And a great comeback after hitting Molina in the 6th.

On the bright side 2: We won't be subjected to anymore whining obout O. Cabrera fof at least 24 hours.

kfm
04-07-2010, 10:34 PM
Baker has to be the worst manager in baseball. Come on bring in a rookie in a tie ball game after your team just tied it up. He has no idea how to manage a pitching staff let alone a whole team. He also tends to put young players in situations were they cant succeed.Ill will be very happy the day ole Bob gets Dusty out of GABP it will be a day for Reds fans to rejoice.

Who should he have brought in in the sixth inning of the game. We have already established that he is not allowed to bring in Lincoln, he had already brought in Herrea, Rhodes and Masset are the seventh and eighth inning guys so that leaves Ondrusek and Owings. SO I guess that means that he should have brought in Owings so now he is the worst manager in baseball because he brought in Ondrusek ( who was dominant during spring training and pitched very well during the first game) over Micah Owings, Really?

GIDP
04-07-2010, 10:35 PM
Or the players could do their jobs.

Yea if only the players would bail our manager making 3 million dollars.

malcontent
04-07-2010, 10:40 PM
Yea if only the players would bail our manager making 3 million dollars.
Careful, GIDP. Some of these cats have led very bad previous lives, and so were reincarnated as Toothpick apologists.

You know who you are!

Mutaman
04-07-2010, 10:41 PM
Who should he have brought in in the sixth inning of the game. We have already established that he is not allowed to bring in Lincoln, he had already brought in Herrea, Rhodes and Masset are the seventh and eighth inning guys so that leaves Ondrusek and Owings. SO I guess that means that he should have brought in Owings so now he is the worst manager in baseball because he brought in Ondrusek ( who was dominant during spring training and pitched very well during the first game) over Micah Owings, Really?

Great post. In fact, Baker made one decision that worked brilliantly- leaving Cueto in after he hit Molina. (Can you imagine the ranting, raving and second guessing if Cueto hadn't gotten the job done in that spot). Far too often the complaining about Baker is either a second guess after the fact or is simply mindless.

Mutaman
04-07-2010, 10:44 PM
Yea if only the players would bail our manager making 3 million dollars.


Still a better investment than Harang making $10 million.

kfm
04-07-2010, 10:44 PM
Yea if only the players would bail our manager making 3 million dollars.

So the players doing their jobs is bailing out their manager, interesting perspective?

kfm
04-07-2010, 10:50 PM
Careful, GIDP. Some of these cats have led very bad previous lives, and so were reincarnated as Toothpick apologists.

You know who you are!

Yes, because if you dare not to blame Dusty for everything including being the second shooter on the grassy knoll you are an apologist. If you have a problem with the analysis I have presented in one of my post then present a counter argument or you could take the grown up way out and just call me names.

Jefferson24
04-07-2010, 11:00 PM
Dusty lost this game when he decided to start Gomes and Stubbs against RIGHT hand pitcher Wainwright. He should be fired by morning! He solidified the loss by his dumb butt managing.

Mutaman
04-07-2010, 11:04 PM
Dusty lost this game when he decided to start Gomes and Stubbs against RIGHT hand pitcher Wainwright. He should be fired by morning! He solidified the loss by his dumb butt managing.

And Monday everbody was complaining because he DIDN'T start Stubbs against right handed pitcher Carpenter.

Jefferson24
04-07-2010, 11:10 PM
And Monday everbody was complaining because he DIDN'T start Stubbs against right handed pitcher Carpenter.

They were wrong. Play the best odds. None of the outfielders are soo good that they shouldn't be considered for a swap with a opposite batting bench player.

texasdave
04-07-2010, 11:15 PM
Who should he have brought in in the sixth inning of the game. We have already established that he is not allowed to bring in Lincoln, he had already brought in Herrea, Rhodes and Masset are the seventh and eighth inning guys so that leaves Ondrusek and Owings. SO I guess that means that he should have brought in Owings so now he is the worst manager in baseball because he brought in Ondrusek ( who was dominant during spring training and pitched very well during the first game) over Micah Owings, Really?

This was the seventh inning, not the sixth. And you said it yourself,
Rhodes and Masset are the seventh and eighth inning guys. So you answered your own question.

malcontent
04-07-2010, 11:16 PM
Yes, because if you dare not to blame Dusty for everything including being the second shooter on the grassy knoll you are an apologist. If you have a problem with the analysis I have presented in one of my post then present a counter argument or you could take the grown up way out and just call me names.
Not at all referring to you specifically, kfm. I've always been somewhat bewildered that more RZ posters don't call for his head....you know, like Cubs fans do whenever he returns to Wrigley.

I'll never get over those lineups from hell...batting Taveras/Gonzalez 1/2 last year. IMO, that's a firing offense. Dude just can't comprehend certain concepts. Dinosaur/tar pit analogy is appropriate.

Kingspoint
04-07-2010, 11:16 PM
At this time of year (April and May) I have to refrain from second-guessing roster moves by a Manager, unless it's something so stupid as to start Patterson and that guy I've already forgotten about just like him last year "all the time" and lead them off or something like that. But, who plays on a given night in April and May when it's platooning anyway, is too hard to figure out because of the dynamics of trying to get everyone playing time and getting everyone going during April and May. As long as the cumulative decisions don't leave you at more than 5-games under .500 at the end of May, then it's all good. But, when June comes around, the platoon stuff can't be done incorrectly.

There's a million different reasons why moves are made by a Manager in April and May and nobody but the Manager knows why. You have to trust him and allow him to do them during April and May. Give it to him in June, but give him a pass in April and May (again, unless it's something so stupid as the Patterson/Taveras stuff).

kfm
04-07-2010, 11:18 PM
And Monday everbody was complaining because he DIDN'T start Stubbs against right handed pitcher Carpenter.

Great post, this is exactly my point. He doesn't start stubbs against a righty he is an idiot, he does start Stubbs against a righty he is an idiot. Will anyone who was calling him an idiot on Monday come to Dusty's defense for starting Stubbs against Wainwright tonight?

kfm
04-07-2010, 11:24 PM
Not at all referring to you specifically, kfm. I've always been somewhat bewildered that more RZ posters don't call for his head....you know, like Cubs fans do whenever he returns to Wrigley.

I'll never get over those lineups from hell...batting Taveras/Gonzalez 1/2 last year. IMO, that's a firing offense. Dude just can't comprehend certain concepts. Dinosaur/tar pit analogy is appropriate.

I agree with you on the patterson and Tavares moves, it drove me absolutely crazy. I did not get it at all, and I have to admit I found myself too attacking Dusty for all sorts of moves, but then I decided to take a deep breath and start to look at his moves and decisions in the context of other managers and it was quite enlightening. I listened to Lance McCallister last night and he talked about how embarrasing Reds fans have become and how Cardinal fans who listened to his show asked "what has happened to Cincinnati Baseball fans that they know so little about baseball.

kfm
04-07-2010, 11:26 PM
This was the seventh inning, not the sixth. And you said it yourself,
Rhodes and Masset are the seventh and eighth inning guys. So you answered your own question.

You are right I stand corrected. But are you now on record as saying if Dusty brings in Masset or Rhodes in the seventh and eighth inning you will not criticize him for it regardless of the outcome?

Griffey012
04-07-2010, 11:31 PM
At this time of year (April and May) I have to refrain from second-guessing roster moves by a Manager, unless it's something so stupid as to start Patterson and that guy I've already forgotten about just like him last year "all the time" and lead them off or something like that. But, who plays on a given night in April and May when it's platooning anyway, is too hard to figure out because of the dynamics of trying to get everyone playing time and getting everyone going during April and May. As long as the cumulative decisions don't leave you at more than 5-games under .500 at the end of May, then it's all good. But, when June comes around, the platoon stuff can't be done incorrectly.

There's a million different reasons why moves are made by a Manager in April and May and nobody but the Manager knows why. You have to trust him and allow him to do them during April and May. Give it to him in June, but give him a pass in April and May (again, unless it's something so stupid as the Patterson/Taveras stuff).

Thank you for a thoughtful and insightful post. Feel like we have disagreed on some thing recently but I am with you 100% here.

Based off of Monday we should have started Janish, Gomes, and Stubbs, and Lincoln should never see the mound again. Well we started Gomes and Stubbs and they didn't do so hot (however Stubbs was a stud Monday in his 2 AB's), OCab was our only offensive weapon, and Lincoln didn't touch the rubber. We still lost. We managed a handful of hits. The Cards made great plays and timely hits. Ondrusek pitched great Monday, why not find out early in the season what he is going to do in a big situation instead of waiting for a month to ease him in...it took us forever last season to get Masset into the 7th or 8th inning last year and he was performing night in and night out in long relief and the mid relief role.

We are 0-2 and lost to 2 potential Cy Young winners. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Our best looking aspect coming into the season has failed us 2 games in a row now (bullpen). Win tomorrow and I am fine with coming out of here 1-2 against these guys. Not happy, but fine.

By the way...the Dodgers are 0-2 and they played the Pirates...and Joe Torre is their manager.

RedLakerFan24
04-07-2010, 11:31 PM
Tomorrow Francisco And Stubbs better start, Francisco is better then Nix and Gomes and Dikerson

GIDP
04-07-2010, 11:32 PM
So the players doing their jobs is bailing out their manager, interesting perspective?

If you put Joey votto at SS and he struggles who's fault is it? Realizing that some people arent fit for the position you are putting them in is the job of the manager. Putting a rookie with 1 major league inning into a game to face the middle of a line up that consist of one of the greatest hitters of all time, and MVP caliber player right behind isnt a smart move. Dusty makes these kinds of screw ups a lot. Dusty wouldnt get an ounce of blame if he realized these things but he does it every chance he gets it seems. Masset blowing up on opening day isnt Bakers fault. Maybe its just me but I hold the manager to a standard and that standard isnt met that often when it comes to game management.

kfm
04-07-2010, 11:38 PM
If you put Joey votto at SS and he struggles who's fault is it? Realizing that some people arent fit for the position you are putting them in is the job of the manager. Putting a rookie with 1 major league inning into a game to face the middle of a line up that consist of one of the greatest hitters of all time, and MVP caliber player right behind isnt a smart move. Dusty makes these kinds of screw ups a lot. Dusty wouldnt get an ounce of blame if he realized these things but he does it every chance he gets it seems. Masset blowing up on opening day isnt Bakers fault. Maybe its just me but I hold the manager to a standard and that standard isnt met that often when it comes to game management.

Ok GIDP that is a good point. Am I to assume then they you would have preferred that he brought in either Rhodes or Masset? If that is the case, if Rhodes came in and got lit up by either one of them you would not have criticized Dusty for bringing in a lefty to face two right handed batters? Am I also to assume that if he brought in Masset and he got lit up that you would not have criticized him for bringing in a guy who gave up four runs including a grand slam on Monday? I am not trying to be smart, I am truly interested in hearing your answer.

Ghosts of 1990
04-07-2010, 11:39 PM
We're off to a rotten start. Both the players and the manager are at fault for 0-2. Let's hope for the long haul and our sake that one of them can pull it together and have some success. It'd be pressing luck to ask for both.

GIDP
04-07-2010, 11:45 PM
Ok GIDP that is a good point. Am I to assume then they you would have preferred that he brought in either Rhodes or Masset? If that is the case, if Rhodes came in and got lit up by either one of them you would not have criticized Dusty for bringing in a lefty to face two right handed batters? Am I also to assume that if he brought in Masset and he got lit up that you would not have criticized him for bringing in a guy who gave up four runs including a grand slam on Monday? I am not trying to be smart, I am truly interested in hearing your answer.

You go with your best players and if they let you down then they let you down. Leave in DRH who doesnt show any LH/RH splits, bring in Masset, after all hes still your 8th inning guy on most nights. Dusty went with Rhodes, Masset, and Cordero tonight even after getting down by 4 runs. I go with my proven guns over my inexperienced brand new rookie. You just cant expect him to dominate when in that position. If he does then its a plus but for a person who talks about protecting players like when he didnt start stubbs on opening day he seems to ignore his own advice.

Mutaman
04-07-2010, 11:47 PM
I've always been somewhat bewildered that more RZ posters don't call for his head....you know, like Cubs fans do whenever he returns to Wrigley.



Now thats a convincing argument- we should be more like Cub fans. I mean Cub fans are never wrong. Look at how successful the Cubs were before Baker managed there and how successful they have been after he left. **** Cub fans.

Mutaman
04-07-2010, 11:53 PM
[QUOTE=GIDP;2049028]You just cant expect him to dominate when in that position. QUOTE]

I bet all over the league the last two days, managers have brought in rookies in key situations. As has been repeated, Logan showed he had the talent in the spring and on Monday. There was no reason not to bring him in here, particularly after Masset's showing on Monday. I would have done the same thing. The fault was Logans for not getting the job done. Not Dusty's for putting him in that spot.

kfm
04-07-2010, 11:54 PM
You go with your best players and if they let you down then they let you down. Leave in DRH who doesnt show any LH/RH splits, bring in Masset, after all hes still your 8th inning guy on most nights. Dusty went with Rhodes, Masset, and Cordero tonight even after getting down by 4 runs. I go with my proven guns over my inexperienced brand new rookie. You just cant expect him to dominate when in that position. If he does then its a plus but for a person who talks about protecting players like when he didnt start stubbs on opening day he seems to ignore his own advice.

Ok, these are all very good points. I think he tends to put pitchers into the fire more so than every day players so I don't agree with the point that he was not taking his own advice I think you remember Daniel Ray first mlb appearance against Philadelphia. While I have no problem putting Ondrusek in that spot, I can respect your in depth analysis of why you believed he should have done something different. Most folks on this board are willing to criticize a move but not willing to say what they would have done. While it sounds like had he gone with Rhodes or Masset you would have been fine with this regardless of the outcome, I think we both know on this board no matter what move he makes if it doesn't work it was the dumbest move ever and no other manager would have done it.

GIDP
04-08-2010, 12:24 AM
Ok, these are all very good points. I think he tends to put pitchers into the fire more so than every day players so I don't agree with the point that he was not taking his own advice I think you remember Daniel Ray first mlb appearance against Philadelphia. While I have no problem putting Ondrusek in that spot, I can respect your in depth analysis of why you believed he should have done something different. Most folks on this board are willing to criticize a move but not willing to say what they would have done. While it sounds like had he gone with Rhodes or Masset you would have been fine with this regardless of the outcome, I think we both know on this board no matter what move he makes if it doesn't work it was the dumbest move ever and no other manager would have done it.

I think putting DRH out there to face the middle of the phillies line up was a bad move also. Thankfully DRH performed much better than anyone could have realized. I would call that bailing Dusty out. Bad move by Dusty but great job by Daniel.

I just think Dusty tends to make stuff up. He relies on LH/RH splits even if they dont exist and will find a reason not to pitch or play someone while ignoring those same things when he puts someone else in that position. Like Stubbs on opening day but then running out Nix who was 1-7 off Carpenter. I wish he would just have a better reasoning behind his moves than he appears to. A lot of these things are questioned the moment he does it in the game threads.

GIDP
04-08-2010, 12:29 AM
[QUOTE=GIDP;2049028]You just cant expect him to dominate when in that position. QUOTE]

I bet all over the league the last two days, managers have brought in rookies in key situations. As has been repeated, Logan showed he had the talent in the spring and on Monday. There was no reason not to bring him in here, particularly after Masset's showing on Monday. I would have done the same thing. The fault was Logans for not getting the job done. Not Dusty's for putting him in that spot.

1st off. I would like for you to find these for me. Im really interested in seeing them. So far this year only 13 rookie relievers have been in a game not counting tonights action, and not all of them have been making their debuts this season. The only ones I can find that has no previous innings is James Russel, David Herndon, Carlos Monasterios and they pitched in blow outs. The other pitcher that would fit into the category with Logan is Jordan Norberto and he only faced 1 batter Tony Gywnn Jr.

Logan does have talent but I'm going to trust Masset, DRH, and Rhodes over a minor leaguer that Dusty has only seen pitch 11 innings, and only 1 major league inninng. Dusty should know better. Yea Logan is at fault for not getting the job done but Dusty isnt absolved of any wrong doing.

malcontent
04-08-2010, 12:41 AM
You go with your best players and if they let you down then they let you down. Leave in DRH who doesnt show any LH/RH splits...
You know, why not let DRH face Godzilla?

Somebody, somewhere has Pujols' number. That guy may not be on the Reds, but I'd do it for no other reason but to get into his head a little. Herrera has a good screwball, right? And last season I thought I saw a breakdown on what Pujols took deep. He feasted on the fastball, if I recall correctly. If I'm the manager, all he ever sees is slop. Screw with his timing. Herrera could be Pujols' kryptonite.

We'll never know as long as Baker's the manager, of course. He'd bring back Stormy Weathers and his 88-MPH meatballs first.

malcontent
04-08-2010, 12:56 AM
Now thats a convincing argument- we should be more like Cub fans. I mean Cub fans are never wrong. Look at how successful the Cubs were before Baker managed there and how successful they have been after he left. **** Cub fans.
Cubs fans are people, too, Mutaman. Long-suffering people. Usually that evokes sympathy, not contempt.

fewfirstchoice
04-08-2010, 01:17 AM
Who should he have brought in in the sixth inning of the game. We have already established that he is not allowed to bring in Lincoln, he had already brought in Herrea, Rhodes and Masset are the seventh and eighth inning guys so that leaves Ondrusek and Owings. SO I guess that means that he should have brought in Owings so now he is the worst manager in baseball because he brought in Ondrusek ( who was dominant during spring training and pitched very well during the first game) over Micah Owings, Really?

This was a home game, right. So the 7th inning should be played like the 8th and the 8th innning guy should have been brought in. Masset should have been in there plain and simple. Ondrusek will be alright i think hes a good pitcher. But hes a rookie do you understand the meaning of that. He should have never been put in that situation in the second game of the season. If you think he should have been you no nothing about baseball. Dusty just doesnt understand how to out players in situations were they can succeed and not fail. Oh well maybe one day the Reds will learn.

Mutaman
04-08-2010, 01:26 AM
This was a home game, right. So the 7th inning should be played like the 8th and the 8th innning guy should have been brought in. Masset should have been in there plain and simple. Ondrusek will be alright i think hes a good pitcher. But hes a rookie do you understand the meaning of that. He should have never been put in that situation in the second game of the season. If you think he should have been you no nothing about baseball. Dusty just doesnt understand how to out players in situations were they can succeed and not fail. Oh well maybe one day the Reds will learn.

But Monday, when Ondrusek was put in a similiar situation in the FIRST game of the season, and he was overwhelmingly successful, none of you guys (who alledgedly know something about baseball) were complaining . Indeed I would bet none of you were complaining tonight until after the fact.

Mutaman
04-08-2010, 01:32 AM
[QUOTE=Mutaman;2049034]

1st off. I would like for you to find these for me. Im really interested in seeing them. So far this year only 13 rookie relievers have been in a game not counting tonights action, and not all of them have been making their debuts this season. The only ones I can find that has no previous innings is James Russel, David Herndon, Carlos Monasterios and they pitched in blow outs. The other pitcher that would fit into the category with Logan is Jordan Norberto and he only faced 1 batter Tony Gywnn Jr.

Logan does have talent but I'm going to trust Masset, DRH, and Rhodes over a minor leaguer that Dusty has only seen pitch 11 innings, and only 1 major league inninng. Dusty should know better. Yea Logan is at fault for not getting the job done but Dusty isnt absolved of any wrong doing.

Tyson Ross oakland , Jesse English washington, Jenrry Mejia mets

Hisanori Takahashi mets,and Jordan Norberto Arizona all pitched tonight, none of whom had pitched in the majors last year. I believe they all pitched in close games. If Logan had not pitched successfully last night, I might have questioned the move, but I didn't. And if you questioned the move, you certainly didn't post your criticism of the move at the time it was made. Nobody here did.

Mutaman
04-08-2010, 01:33 AM
Cubs fans are people, too, Mutaman. Long-suffering people. Usually that evokes sympathy, not contempt.

You are a more compasionate man than I am. I hope they continue to suffer for a long time.

GIDP
04-08-2010, 08:58 AM
[QUOTE=GIDP;2049045]

Tyson Ross oakland , Jesse English washington, Jenrry Mejia mets

Hisanori Takahashi mets,and Jordan Norberto Arizona all pitched tonight, none of whom had pitched in the majors last year. I believe they all pitched in close games. If Logan had not pitched successfully last night, I might have questioned the move, but I didn't. And if you questioned the move, you certainly didn't post your criticism of the move at the time it was made. Nobody here did.

Tyson Ross is the only one who faced the middle of a line up and succeed. Jesse English came in pitched 1/3 of an inning and gave up a run in a 3 to 4 ball game. Jenrry Mejia came in and gave up a run in 1 inning of work, he also came in the 6th inning making it a little harder for his manager to make a choice. Same with Jordan Norberto. Then Hisanori Takahashi came in and lost an extra inning game. I think you have to realize that in a tie game in the 7th at home bringing in a rookie with 1 major league inning to face Pujols and Holliday is a mistake.

I was watching the game, but in the game thread you can see that plenty of people were questioning that move.

Griffey012
04-08-2010, 09:16 AM
You can also look at it from the opposite perspective. Pujols and Holliday have never seen Ondrusek before and probably didn't have much game footage from the minor on him either. This can be advantageous to the pitcher also. Remember when Dusty favored veterans? Doesn't look that way now.

Let's all be honest, if Ondrusek gets out of the inning by giving up no runs Dusty is getting praise for trusting his rookie's in a big situation. This is all 2nd guessing after the fact. Bashing his lineups is one thing, but 2nd guessing every move regarding his managing of pitchers is pretty cheap. Say what you want but our bullpen was VERY successful under his management last season. There is a pretty good chance whoever came in for that inning failed against Pujols and Holliday, that is what makes the Cards so tough.

tbball10
04-08-2010, 09:26 AM
1) it was the 7th inning so it should have been Masset
2) Stubbs should not platoon or be out of the lineup against a tough righty. He is one of the most selective hitters on the team, not to mention he is just better than Dickerson.

BLEEDS
04-08-2010, 11:08 AM
But Monday, when Ondrusek was put in a similiar situation in the FIRST game of the season, and he was overwhelmingly successful, none of you guys (who alledgedly know something about baseball) were complaining . Indeed I would bet none of you were complaining tonight until after the fact.

Exactly. 20/20 hindsight.

SO, who should he have brought in?

Lincoln? After Monday's performance, they would still be booing this morning is he was sent out there.

Masset? After Monday's performance, everyone would be screaming about that.

Ondrusek pitched lights-out on Monday, but on Wednesday suddenly he's a rookie in the spotlight?!? I don't get it.

Basically he couldn't win.
VERY easy to second guess when you already know the results of the decision that was made.

Monday, it was on Dusty, I'll give you that, but last night, the players should have come through.

0-2 versus Carpenter and Wainwright was pretty much expected. Trouble is we actually had our chances.
Our bullpen has a lot to live up to after last year. It's going to be hard to better that effort. Lincoln should be DFA'd when Leake gets called up for Sunday's game.
The offense better pick it up a bit too.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Newport Red
04-08-2010, 11:19 AM
You can also look at it from the opposite perspective. Pujols and Holliday have never seen Ondrusek before and probably didn't have much game footage from the minor on him either. This can be advantageous to the pitcher also. Remember when Dusty favored veterans? Doesn't look that way now.

Let's all be honest, if Ondrusek gets out of the inning by giving up no runs Dusty is getting praise for trusting his rookie's in a big situation. This is all 2nd guessing after the fact. Bashing his lineups is one thing, but 2nd guessing every move regarding his managing of pitchers is pretty cheap. Say what you want but our bullpen was VERY successful under his management last season. There is a pretty good chance whoever came in for that inning failed against Pujols and Holliday, that is what makes the Cards so tough.

Second guessing a manager's decisions is a time honored sport in and of itself. The Dusty's the worst manager ever and one day closer to getting fired comments get old fast.

The guys got over 1300 wins, If he sucks so much, he must be extremely lucky. I wish he would send some luck the Reds way.

Or the players could execute.They're watching the Cardinals do it.

ukwazoo
04-08-2010, 03:01 PM
Dusty is awful? In other news, water is wet, the sun is hot, etc.