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View Full Version : Is it time to worry about the pen?



Scrap Irony
04-10-2010, 03:40 PM
I know it's early, but only one game so far this seson has the pen done its job. On Opening Day, it was horrid, and it's cost the Reds two more games beyond that little gem.

I know its early and sample size issues abound, but:

- Lincoln struggled mighily
- Masset looked even worse
- Cordero's not been exactly shut down
- Ondrusek couldn't throw strikes
- DRH failed against the Cardinals as a LOOGY
- Rhodes gave up the lead on a Jeff Baker (!) dinger today

Only Micah Owings has had what any of us might call a good start to the season.

But there is hope.

In 1999, the pen stared bad. Really bad. They gave up four games out of five to start the season.

What say you, Reds' fans? Too early to tell or a trend?

Tom Servo
04-10-2010, 03:43 PM
Cordero, DRH, and Rhodes will be fine. I'm not exactly Masset to be as good as he was last year, but he should be fine enough. Not sold on Ondrusek yet, but he needs at least needs another chance. Lincoln needs to be gone yesterday. Overall, I don't think the pen will be one of our bigger problems.

OnBaseMachine
04-10-2010, 03:48 PM
The bullpen has been a disaster, and so has the offense and defense. This team should be 3-2 or 4-1 at the moment instead of 2-3. But I'm more confident in the bullpen bouncing back than I am the offense waking up. This offense will be lucky to score 670 runs despite playing in a bandbox.

Nick Masset has looked much better in his last two outings. He's a huge key to the bullpen. Ondursek deserves another chance. He's got the stuff to be another solid reliever in the bullpen. Hopefully Rhodes can have another solid season, but it was disappointing to see him give up a HR to a AAAA player like Jeff Baker today. His stuff still appears to be there. He may not post an ERA as low as last season but he should still be a pretty dependable.

nate
04-10-2010, 03:51 PM
Is it time to worry about the pen?

No.

Scrap Irony
04-10-2010, 03:53 PM
On another (related) note, why do Masset (22.50 ERA before today) and Ondrusek (27.00 ERA) get free passes, while Lincoln gets skewered?

Age? Salary? Previous year's struggles?

edabbs44
04-10-2010, 03:54 PM
No.

And if the pen, offense and defense have all been disastrs, how should this team be 4-1?

Brutus
04-10-2010, 03:55 PM
Middle relief perhaps, but Masset-Rhodes-Cordero will be fine.

Orenda
04-10-2010, 03:59 PM
On another (related) note, why do Masset (22.50 ERA before today) and Ondrusek (27.00 ERA) get free passes, while Lincoln gets skewered?

Age? Salary? Previous year's struggles?

Stuff

nate
04-10-2010, 03:59 PM
On another (related) note, why do Masset (22.50 ERA before today) and Ondrusek (27.00 ERA) get free passes, while Lincoln gets skewered?

Age? Salary? Previous year's struggles?

Based on 4 IP pitched between them?

Seriously?

Wow.

Scrap Irony
04-10-2010, 04:00 PM
Are you saying Lincoln hasn't been roasted by many here on Redszone?

westofyou
04-10-2010, 04:01 PM
3% of the season gone so far, worrying should only involve injuries at juncture.

fearofpopvol1
04-10-2010, 04:08 PM
Too soon, yes.

Spring~Fields
04-10-2010, 04:09 PM
No.

I am struggling here, but, I guess I will have to agree with you. :)

nate
04-10-2010, 04:33 PM
Are you saying Lincoln hasn't been roasted by many here on Redszone?

Well, let's see. "Many?" I don't know as I haven't really analyzed who said what about Mike Lincoln. "Roasted?" Again, I don't recall any Michael Scott "boom, roasted!" taglines to the end of a Mike Lincoln commentary so I can't really say one way or the other.

If Lincoln was "roasted," I'd say the last 24 innings he pitched for the Reds were "roast-worthy" because he's exhibited poor performance for an extended amount of time. Masset, was pretty darn good last year and Ondrusek is a rookie who deserved more than an inning look.

I don't see any need to "roast" Masset or Ondrusek (or, quite honestly, any player based on tiny sample sizes) as they have 4 IP between them and we're 5/162 through the season. I _really_ don't see any compelling reason to "roast" them only to somehow normalize the "roasting" of Mike Lincoln.

Now, who wants an orange whip?

TheNext44
04-10-2010, 04:49 PM
It was time before the season started.

The relief staff was pretty lucky last year, and the Reds are hoping that they are just as lucky this year. Not a recipe for success.

The bullpen won't be '07 bad, but it won't be as good as it was last year. But I think with Fisher, Bray, Maloney, Del Rosario and others coming up, they should be decent enough. I just don't expect the group of guys in the Reds pen right now to be successful all season. And people will miss Stormy a lot more than they want to admit.

Scrap Irony
04-10-2010, 05:10 PM
Well, let's see. "Many?" I don't know as I haven't really analyzed who said what about Mike Lincoln. "Roasted?" Again, I don't recall any Michael Scott "boom, roasted!" taglines to the end of a Mike Lincoln commentary so I can't really say one way or the other.

If Lincoln was "roasted," I'd say the last 24 innings he pitched for the Reds were "roast-worthy" because he's exhibited poor performance for an extended amount of time. Masset, was pretty darn good last year and Ondrusek is a rookie who deserved more than an inning look.

I don't see any need to "roast" Masset or Ondrusek (or, quite honestly, any player based on tiny sample sizes) as they have 4 IP between them and we're 5/162 through the season. I _really_ don't see any compelling reason to "roast" them only to somehow normalize the "roasting" of Mike Lincoln.

Now, who wants an orange whip?

I'm sorry, did you answer the question at all? I missed it in all the snark and quotation marks.

To answer my own rhetorical question, yes, Lincoln has been the prime whipping boy of Cincinnati's first week, with a fairly large percentage of posts and posters insisting he be DFA'ed, sent down, traded, et al.

And, yes, one inning apiece is an extremely small sample size (as said in the opening post). Last season, Lincoln was hurt. Fairly seriously, as it turned out. 23 of those innings are from a season ago. Would you judge Masset on his 2008 or Ondrusek? If so, Masset belonged in AAA and Ondrusek should be selling tires.

Caveat Emperor
04-10-2010, 05:28 PM
3% of the season gone so far, worrying should only involve injuries at juncture.

This.

The season isn't even a week old.

nate
04-10-2010, 05:48 PM
I'm sorry, did you answer the question at all? I missed it in all the snark and quotation marks.

I accept your apology.


To answer my own rhetorical question, yes, Lincoln has been the prime whipping boy of Cincinnati's first week, with a fairly large percentage of posts and posters insisting he be DFA'ed, sent down, traded, et al.

I didn't see these posts. Judging anyone on such a small sample is silly.


And, yes, one inning apiece is an extremely small sample size (as said in the opening post). Last season, Lincoln was hurt. Fairly seriously, as it turned out. 23 of those innings are from a season ago. Would you judge Masset on his 2008 or Ondrusek? If so, Masset belonged in AAA and Ondrusek should be selling tires.

I judge on the most recent significant performance sample.

To say that the "Lincoln roasters" must become the "Masset/Ondrusek roasters" in order to establish some sort of "roasting equilibrium" is, to me, silly.

However, I would be in favor of implementing a site-wide guideline that when any player is to be "roasted," we must end the "roasting" with the words, "Boom, roasted!" like so:

Boom, roasted!

:cool:

Scrap Irony
04-10-2010, 06:24 PM
So, just to be sure I understand you (as tangental discussions on The Office and quotation marks make it fairly difficult):

- we agree that one inning is too short a time to judge a person
- Lincoln, Masset, and Ondrusek all have thrown one inning in their "most recent performance sample" (See, I too can use quotation marks).
- You shouldn't judge anyone on something that happened as long as, say, 10 months ago.

But you have some sort of problem with the verb roasted, as I use it.

Yeah, as you said. Silly.

nate
04-10-2010, 06:57 PM
So, just to be sure I understand you (as tangental discussions on The Office and quotation marks make it fairly difficult):

- we agree that one inning is too short a time to judge a person

I'd say 60 innings are about the time one should start judging a relief pitcher. Even that is pretty iffy.


- Lincoln, Masset, and Ondrusek all have thrown one inning in their "most recent performance sample" (See, I too can use quotation marks).

No. I said, "recent significant performance sample." That's this season's infinitesimal performance coupled with previous seasons. Masset: good, Lincoln: not good, Ondrusek: rookie.

I think "not good" is a rather kind description of Lincoln's tenure with the Reds. He has a pretty pedestrian K/9, a not so good BB/9 and a rather alarming HR/9.


- You shouldn't judge anyone on something that happened as long as, say, 10 months ago.

Incorrect. One should look at as large a sample as possible, winter notwithstanding.

In the end, the problem with Lincoln isn't one inning, it's that's he's not very good...although he used to have a killer curveball. Maybe he can be average this year. Maybe not.

Where we agree is that it's silly to start making these assessments based on the season tally so far. That the bullpen has taken a few lumps in five games doesn't bother me in the slightest. If we're nearing the end of the month and the bullpen has more losses than the starting staff, well, there's an indication of a problem. After five games? It's impossible to separate simple random variation from performance.

At least, I think we agree...although the premise of your original post would seem to contradict that.

Where we disagree is that it's somehow necessary to "go after" other players who haven't performed well because "many" have gone after Lincoln. I don't understand that logic at all.


But you have some sort of problem with the verb roasted, as I use it.

Actually, I think the term is awesome and plan to use it with aplomb. Thanks!


Yeah, as you said. Silly.

Boom, roasted!

Fixed it!

:cool:

Falls City Beer
04-10-2010, 07:16 PM
The time to worry about the pitching was the offseason.

Will M
04-10-2010, 07:26 PM
relievers are notoriously volatile from year to year. try to get a decent group with DEPTH knowing that certain guys may not be as good as they were just last year. the current pen will rely a lot on Masset & Rhodes. if they were to falter the middle relief corpse seems kinda thin. i think DRH & Owings are decent pitchers, i just don't know about handing them the 8th inning if we have to.

the Reds have a certain guy down in AAA who could pitch out of the pen right now & potentially dominate. yes he is pencilled into the rotation for 2011once Arroyo and/or Harang are gone. i suspect we won't see him until after the super two date. at that point if the five starters he have are pitching well he could pitch out of the pen and help this years team.

Scrap Irony
04-10-2010, 07:37 PM
So it matters not that Lincoln had a bad 2009 largely because he couldn't feel his hand nor move his neck?

Because that might, y'know, affect those numbers.

His 2008 was solid, if unspectacular, with solid periphials as well.

And, for what it's worth, I don't think it's "right" to "go after" any player, regardless of what other posters do.

mth123
04-10-2010, 07:38 PM
On another (related) note, why do Masset (22.50 ERA before today) and Ondrusek (27.00 ERA) get free passes, while Lincoln gets skewered?

Age? Salary? Previous year's struggles?

I guess age and previous seasons are the answer for me. Guys who might suck are better than guys who have proven that they suck. Though I still think a team could make some use of Lincoln if they could stick to pitching him just one inning at a time and not two days in a row. That's pretty hard to live with, but for a team like the cubs, might just be an upgrade.

Spring~Fields
04-10-2010, 08:27 PM
The time to worry about the pitching was the offseason.

Yes, that and the run support for the pitching. I was told that the experts and by otherís here that, that the runs were taken care of.

Yes it is too soon to tell for sure.

But very early indicators are not looking too good.
RS 19 / 5 = 3.8 RPG * 162 = projecting RS 616

WMR
04-10-2010, 08:36 PM
Yes, that and the run support for the pitching. I was told that the experts and by otherís here that, that the runs were taken care of.

Yes it is too soon to tell for sure.

But very early indicators are not looking too good.
RS 19 / 5 = 3.8 RPG * 162 = projecting RS 616

I doubt anyone will be criticizing the Reds anytime soon for taking too long to play their games. :(

flyer85
04-10-2010, 09:30 PM
depends on what your expectations were. Cordero and Rhodes had unsustainable HR rates last year. It generally takes teams 2-3 weeks to sort out their bullpen issues (unless they just stink).

Slyder
04-10-2010, 09:47 PM
On another (related) note, why do Masset (22.50 ERA before today) and Ondrusek (27.00 ERA) get free passes, while Lincoln gets skewered?

Age? Salary? Previous year's struggles?

Masset was one of the biggest reasons that our pen was as good as it was last year with his performance in 7th and 8th innings of games.

Ondrusek is a rookie.

And Lincoln stunk for the most part the last half of 2008 and most of 2009 before getting hurt.

traderumor
04-11-2010, 08:29 AM
Making any conclusions about anything after five games of a 162 game baseball season is folly. Its sort of like calling an election with 5 of 162 precincts reporting. All you are going to get at this point of the campaign is self-fulfilling prophecies.

Razor Shines
04-11-2010, 09:14 AM
So it matters not that Lincoln had a bad 2009 largely because he couldn't feel his hand nor move his neck?

Because that might, y'know, affect those numbers.

His 2008 was solid, if unspectacular, with solid periphials as well.

And, for what it's worth, I don't think it's "right" to "go after" any player, regardless of what other posters do.

Mike Lincoln throws a straight as an arrow 90 MPH fastball that he often has trouble locating. He throws an average curveball that he often has trouble locating. I don't think those things are going to improve by waiting for a larger sample size.

reds1869
04-11-2010, 09:23 AM
The pen will be fine. The offense will also be serviceable but not spectacular. Jay Bruce is ripping the ball and finding gloves; he will eventually start finding holes. Once the pen gets it together and the offense ends their bad luck, this team will win some games.

mth123
04-11-2010, 09:37 AM
The pen will be fine. The offense will also be serviceable but not spectacular. Jay Bruce is ripping the ball and finding gloves; he will eventually start finding holes. Once the pen gets it together and the offense ends their bad luck, this team will win some games.

I think the pen will be fine as well. The major roles to be filled all have qualified candidates on hand to fill them. There are enough options on hand to round out the lesser roles (my personal choice is that Micah Owings becomes that second set-up RH).

The offense, OTOH, is riddled with too many guys with huge platoon splits (who happen to be on the good side the minority of the time) has too many guys with low on base frequency and is short a legit middle of the order power threat. The team has lots of promising kids in AAA and some bonafide major league role players filling out the roster, but its just asking too much, IMO, to expect 2 or 3 to improve the OBP, a couple to become less "splitty" and improve against RHP and at least one to become a legit power bat all in the same season. I just don't see the offense doing all that well. They may finish in the 9-13 range in runs scored in the NL, but in GABP, I'd say anything below the top 5 is a poor performance. Remember the pitching wil be impacted by GABP as well and a staff in the middle of the pack is probably pretty darn good. This staff can do quite well and still give up 725 to 750 runs in 2010. The offense won't score that many.

HokieRed
04-11-2010, 09:53 AM
I'm not convinced the pen will be fine, but I think it will be decentish, particularly if Owings gets worked into the regular assignments and Burton can come back--thus giving Ondrusek a better chance to develop and/or the very occasional use of DH.

pahster
04-11-2010, 09:57 AM
Yes, that and the run support for the pitching. I was told that the experts and by otherís here that, that the runs were taken care of.

Yes it is too soon to tell for sure.

But very early indicators are not looking too good.
RS 19 / 5 = 3.8 RPG * 162 = projecting RS 616

I doubt Bruce, Rolen, Cabrera, and Phillips continue to hit as poorly as they have. Gomes is going to get on base more often than he has and Votto is likely to hit for more power.

Hernandez and Stubbs will surely slow down, though.

It's still very early.

nate
04-11-2010, 10:37 AM
So it matters not that Lincoln had a bad 2009 largely because he couldn't feel his hand nor move his neck?

What matters more is that he's average at best, nominally not good and bad at worst. I don't think the performance arc will trend up for a guy over 30 with a couple of arm surgeries under his belt.

Nevertheless, should he be judged on one inning's worth of work? No. His entire career? Yes. "Roasted?" Well, "roasting" in general tends to bring the overall conversation quality down unless it's coupled with hilarious jokes.


Because that might, y'know, affect those numbers.

Entirely likely. Still, at his best:


His 2008 was solid, if unspectacular, with solid periphials as well.

If by "solid," you mean "average," yes.


And, for what it's worth, I don't think it's "right" to "go after" any player, regardless of what other posters do.

High five, beer summit.

Marc D
04-11-2010, 10:48 AM
I doubt Bruce, Rolen, Cabrera, and Phillips continue to hit as poorly as they have. Gomes is going to get on base more often than he has and Votto is likely to hit for more power.

Hernandez and Stubbs will surely slow down, though.

It's still very early.


It is still early but right now the hitters have the 3rd worst BB rate with the 4th highest K rate in the NL. Regardless of what individual hitters may or may not do, if this trend of near zero plate discipline continues on a team wide basis they are going to be severely challenged in run production. Not trying to turn it into an anti Dusty rant but given his views of run creation you have to give at least some thought to the possibility of that happening no matter how much you hope it doesn't.

My feeling coming into the season was the pen wasn't as good as the numbers said last year but was still pretty solid. I think they'll be o.k.. Bullpen combustibility was an issue all through MLB the first week of the season, not just for the Reds.

kaldaniels
04-11-2010, 11:31 AM
I gotta ask...what is Stormy's situation?

Chip R
04-11-2010, 12:15 PM
I know it's early, but only one game so far this seson has the pen done its job. On Opening Day, it was horrid, and it's cost the Reds two more games beyond that little gem.

I know its early and sample size issues abound, but:

- Lincoln struggled mighily
- Masset looked even worse
- Cordero's not been exactly shut down
- Ondrusek couldn't throw strikes
- DRH failed against the Cardinals as a LOOGY
- Rhodes gave up the lead on a Jeff Baker (!) dinger today

Only Micah Owings has had what any of us might call a good start to the season.


Let's see here, Lincoln's pitched once? I don't think he's all that great but he pitched a lot better than Masset did on Opening Day. Masset pitched lousy on Opening Day and better the next time out. Cordero's got, what, a save in a save chance and a win in his other opportunity when he came in with the game tied? We should have been so unlucky to have a close like him in the past. Ondrusek and Herrera looked great on Opening Day. Rhodes will be fine. Panicking much?

HokieRed
04-11-2010, 02:54 PM
I gotta ask...what is Stormy's situation?

I like the question. I didn't see that he signed with anybody. Does anybody know?

Ron Madden
04-11-2010, 03:33 PM
Weathers was a free agent this off season nobody was interested in signing him. He's done.

PuffyPig
04-11-2010, 04:25 PM
What matters the least in baseball:

Spring training
Small sample sizes
Yesterday
The day before yesterday
The day before the day before yesterday
Etc., etc.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2010, 09:44 PM
I apologize to the people who pointed out that Logan Ondrusek could be another Josias Manzanillo. I laughed it off and said no way. Well, I was wrong. He's been awful so far and doesn't appear to be ready to pitch in the major leagues. The stuff is there but the location isn't.

The Reds desperately need another bullpen arm.

11larkin11
04-13-2010, 09:51 PM
I apologize to the people who pointed out that Logan Ondrusek could be another Josias Manzanillo. I laughed it off and said no way. Well, I was wrong. He's been awful so far and has cost the Reds a couple of games. He clearly isn't ready to pitch in the major leagues.

The Reds desperately need another bullpen arm.

He isn't Josias Manzanillo. He still has the stuff and has potential, he just isn't ready and I knew he wasn't ready.

We have Burton (DL?) and Fisher down there, EDR could be ready, ....

and David Weathers is still a free agent ;)

reds44
04-13-2010, 09:53 PM
I think the Reds overrated their penn in the offseason.

Once you get past Cordero, Rhodes, and Masset the bullpen is kinda bad.

Big Klu
04-13-2010, 10:00 PM
I think the Reds overrated their penn in the offseason.

Once you get past Cordero, Rhodes, and Masset the bullpen is kinda bad.

Owings has looked good in the pen so far this season.

11larkin11
04-13-2010, 10:02 PM
I think the Reds overrated their penn in the offseason.

Once you get past Cordero, Rhodes, and Masset the bullpen is kinda bad.

I think you're underrating it. Owings is a good long guy and can pitch an inning, plus his bat. Herrera is good. Lincoln had a good 08, although I'd rather not see him here. Ondrusek has potential but was thrown into the fire too fast. Burton, Fisher and EDR are down in Louisville ready to go.

HokieRed
04-13-2010, 10:15 PM
Owings has to become the 4th option. No more worrying about whether he can pinch hit; we can't afford that and we can't afford his being a long man if that means he's only going to pitch once a week. He's going to have to take more turns; then we've got to hope Burton can be gotten back into early 2008 form. And I'd talk to Weathers. I'd certainly rather have Weathers in the 5 spot right now rather than Lincoln, Herrera, or Ondrusek.

OnBaseMachine
04-13-2010, 11:01 PM
No doubt Ondrusek has much better stuff than Manzanillo but he's pitching like Josias right now. In the majors you simply can't walk hitters like Brendan Ryan (last Wednesday night) and Ronny Paulino and get away with it. I'd give him another chance or two in low pressure situations and if he continues to struggle he needs to go to Louisville.

VR
04-13-2010, 11:23 PM
Once their roles shake out, I think the pen will be fine.

Cedric
04-13-2010, 11:23 PM
The best thing about tonight would be Ondrusek going back to Louisville. He doesn't have the ability to get major league batters out consistently. Hopefully Burton gets healthy and gets hitters out in AAA. It's a great opportunity for Fisher also .

Caveat Emperor
04-13-2010, 11:39 PM
It's worth saying, since we kinda take it for granted, but Cordero is a difference maker on this team. I get the Krivsky almost certainly committed too large a piece of the pie to the closer role, but Cordero's been the rare Red's acquisition that has come in and done *exactly* what he's paid to do.

It's nice to have a guy like him at the back of the pen.

Will M
04-13-2010, 11:45 PM
It's worth saying, since we kinda take it for granted, but Cordero is a difference maker on this team. I get the Krivsky almost certainly committed to large a piece of the pie to the closer role, but Cordero's been the rare Red's acquisition that has come in and done *exactly* what he's paid to do.

It's nice to have a guy like him at the back of the pen.

+1

he was a bit shaky in 2008 (i believe due to an ankle injury) but has been very good in 2009 & so far this year. the team is 6-4. with the 2007 pen we'd be 0-7 :D (only half joking)

HeatherC1212
04-13-2010, 11:47 PM
+1

he was a bit shaky in 2008 (i believe due to an ankle injury) but has been very good in 2009 & so far this year. the team is 6-4. with the 2007 pen we'd be 0-7 :D (only half joking)

Aren't the guys 5-3 right now? We've only had eight games. :p:

I do agree that if we had the 2006-07 bullpen that we'd have given up approximately 125,364 runs by now with some of these games. :eek:

Will M
04-14-2010, 12:01 AM
Aren't the guys 5-3 right now? We've only had eight games. :p:

I do agree that if we had the 2006-07 bullpen that we'd have given up approximately 125,364 runs by now with some of these games. :eek:

you are correct. i guess i am so giddy with the team actually being OVER .500that i can't think straight. :redface:

redsfandan
04-14-2010, 12:03 AM
"Is it time to worry about the pen?"

After only 8 games?

I'm going back to tv land.

RedsZone: micromanaging since 2000 and still going strong. :thumbup:

BearcatShane
04-14-2010, 03:26 AM
I think the Reds overrated their penn in the offseason.

Once you get past Cordero, Rhodes, and Masset the bullpen is kinda bad.

So is everyone elses honestly after you get through the top 3 or 4 guys. The pen will be fine.

fearofpopvol1
04-14-2010, 03:34 AM
I think the Reds overrated their penn in the offseason.

Once you get past Cordero, Rhodes, and Masset the bullpen is kinda bad.

Owings has been quite good so far. 5 IP, 2 hits, 0 runs, 0 BB and 5 Ks. I think he should be used more often.

Herrera deserves more time. He was pretty successful last year and he's only pitched 1.1 innings.

Ondrusek and Lincoln are the ones I'm more concerned about at this point.

jmcclain19
04-14-2010, 03:41 AM
So is everyone elses honestly after you get through the top 3 or 4 guys. The pen will be fine.

Exactly. That's also focusing in on less than a 1/10th of the season so far.

I'm more concerned about Arroyo throwing grapefruits up there tonight or Dusty figuring out a way to ruin the arm of Aroldis before he even gets to the big club.

Talking about the 23rd thru 25th guys on the roster - it really is splitting hairs at that point.

There isn't a team in baseball that doesn't have a some serious issues when you get to that point.

Caveat Emperor
04-14-2010, 08:31 AM
Talking about the 23rd thru 25th guys on the roster - it really is splitting hairs at that point.

There isn't a team in baseball that doesn't have a some serious issues when you get to that point.

Yup -- and, honestly, the guys we're talking about are guys that shouldn't be getting the ball that much if everything else is working as necessary (i.e. starters going 6+IP every time out).

The only issue I'd like to see worked out is the RH compliment for Arthur Rhodes in 7th inning situations. I'm hopeful that Jared Burton will reclaim that role and make everything right with the world, or that Ondrusek will get over his rookie hiccups and be a productive 7th inning guy.

Slyder
04-14-2010, 10:35 AM
Owings has been quite good so far. 5 IP, 2 hits, 0 runs, 0 BB and 5 Ks. I think he should be used more often.

Herrera deserves more time. He was pretty successful last year and he's only pitched 1.1 innings.

Ondrusek and Lincoln are the ones I'm more concerned about at this point.

If Duhhhsty would quit sending Lincoln out there for more than an inning I think even he would be fine (if league average but still fine). It seems like Lincoln gets through the first inning fine (like both games this year and many times in 08). Could you improve on Mike Lincoln and Ondrusek??? Certainly but I'm not ready to throw them out until we have someone ready at aaa or acquired via trade with a larger work history that is better than league average. Only time Lincoln should go out there for more than 1 inning is in complete blowouts or he's the last guy left in the pen... 1 inning he seems to get through fine.

RedsManRick
04-14-2010, 11:43 AM
I'd say we're pretty clearly lacking a reliable RH middle relief option at the moment, particularly if Owings is going to be held as a long reliever. Masset and Rhodes are being used almost exclusively in setup roles. That leaves Herrera as the only reliable middle relief option. If Burton starts off fast in Louisville, I think he'll reclaim his spot from Ondrusek sooner rather than later.

membengal
04-14-2010, 11:55 AM
Well, Burton won't be starting off fast in L'ville as he is on the 7-day DL as they explore a potential thyroid issue. AAA help in the short-term is restricted to Del Rosario and Fisher, likely.

Brutus
04-14-2010, 12:08 PM
"Is it time to worry about the pen?"

After only 8 games?

I'm going back to tv land.

RedsZone: micromanaging since 2000 and still going strong. :thumbup:

In an average game thread, The Dusty makes 387 bad managerial decisions.
:thumbup:

HokieRed
04-14-2010, 09:27 PM
I figure with Herrera's entrance it's time to get this thread to the top again. Perhaps we should have a poll. How many people think Herrera, Ondrusek, and Lincoln will be in the pen by midseason?

Scrap Irony
04-14-2010, 09:33 PM
I hope Fisher, Del Rosario, and Burton are close because I don't think that particular trio has been effective.

Falls City Beer
04-14-2010, 09:42 PM
There's a bunch of pitching driftwood--why stop at the pen?

HokieRed
04-14-2010, 09:52 PM
There's a bunch of pitching driftwood--why stop at the pen?

Good question. I just assume it will be easier to reconfigure the pen, at least during the season.

edabbs44
04-15-2010, 01:13 PM
Depending on the specifics, this might be worth a shot. From rotoworld:


According to Tracy Ringolsby, the Royals are "looking to unload" right-hander Juan Cruz and are willing to pick up salary.

As part of his two-year, $6 million contract with the Royals, Cruz will make $3.25 million this season and would receive a $500,000 buyout if his $4 million option for 2011 is declined. He posted a 5.72 ERA in 46 relief appearances last season and has allowed one run over 4 2/3 innings (1.93 ERA) so far this season.

OnBaseMachine
04-20-2010, 09:52 PM
Still too early to worry about the pen? They blew a 9-5 lead in the 8th inning tonight, just days after losing back-to-back games in Pittsburgh.

Nick Masset - one year wonder.

Falls City Beer
04-20-2010, 09:55 PM
I'll say it again: not addressing this pitching staff--entire pitching staff, top to bottom--is reason number one for Jocketty's dismissal. This was a horrible pitching staff before it threw a single pitch this season.

11larkin11
04-20-2010, 09:56 PM
Still too early to worry about the pen? They blew a 9-5 lead in the 8th inning tonight, just days after losing back-to-back games in Pittsburgh.

Nick Masset - one year wonder.

I thought this all winter and was too afraid to say it.

Falls City Beer
04-20-2010, 09:59 PM
Mike Lincoln for closer. LOL.

Cyclone792
04-20-2010, 10:01 PM
Mike Lincoln for closer. LOL.

Just think how much marketing fun you could have with that. You'd have more material with that than you would advertising for a circus.

Tom Servo
04-20-2010, 10:04 PM
I stand by my support of Cordero, Rhodes, and DRH, but the rest of the bullpen needs to be gone yesterday.

M2
04-20-2010, 10:09 PM
Wait, are you telling me that Nick Masset is the new John Riedling? Next thing somebody's going to call Paul Janish the new Frank Duffy.

Chip R
04-20-2010, 10:10 PM
Wait, are you telling me that Nick Masset is the new John Riedling? Next thing somebody's going to call Paul Janish the new Frank Duffy.

If we can trade him for the new George Foster, I'm all for it.

hebroncougar
04-20-2010, 10:12 PM
I'll say it again: not addressing this pitching staff--entire pitching staff, top to bottom--is reason number one for Jocketty's dismissal. This was a horrible pitching staff before it threw a single pitch this season.

Really? Most people thought coming into the season the bullpen was going to be above league average. Especially if the relievers threw like they did last year. The back of the bullpen was about as solid as they any other team last year. Throw in Herrera who had a very good year last year, and the pen looked like a strength.

Tom Servo
04-20-2010, 10:14 PM
As I said in the game thread, Chad Bradford is available. As is Russ Springer. Either of these guys would likely be better than any other right handed relief option not named Cordero in the organization.

Falls City Beer
04-20-2010, 10:28 PM
After tonight 78 RA, 64 RS. About middle of the pack offensively, bottom 5 in MLB in pitching. Shocked. Such a deep and exciting rotation, no need for TOR.

KronoRed
04-20-2010, 10:32 PM
If your starters can't go more then 5 it won't matter who you have in the pen, they will be nuked pretty quickly.

M2
04-20-2010, 10:38 PM
Either of these guys would likely be better than any other right handed relief option not named Cordero in the organization.

And yet the reliever you most often read that folks around here want traded away is?

I'm telling you, this is Bizarro World. The regular Earth is on the other side of the sun.

edabbs44
04-20-2010, 10:40 PM
And yet the reliever you most often read that folks around here want traded away is?

I'm telling you, this is Bizarro World. The regular Earth is on the other side of the sun.

It has nothing to do with his performance.

M2
04-20-2010, 10:55 PM
It has nothing to do with his performance.

My point exactly. It's a messed up world.

backbencher
04-20-2010, 10:58 PM
It has nothing to do with his performance.

That may be.

But if you can't grow it, you have to buy it.

Guacarock
04-20-2010, 11:30 PM
Herrera, Rhodes, Owings and Cordero all look fine. Lincoln is coming around after a shaky start. Our bullpen woes aren't so insurmountable, amounting to two question marks: Did Ondrusek get called up prematurely? Can Masset return to his 2009 groove?

If Ondrusek was rushed, no biggie. Carlos Fisher looks armed and over his bout with flu. He's appeared in five games at Louisville, hasn't surrendered a run, has collected six Ks in 7 IP, and currently boasts a sparkling 0.29 WHIP. Fisher made a strong impression in '09, and he seems like he could shore up our middle relief tomorrow if called upon.

If Masset can't find his groove, then we've got more drastic shuffling to do. Burton still hasn't pitched at Louisville. The Bats' closer, Adkins, and right-handed setup man, Del Rosario, are pitching acceptably for AAA but allowing too many hits to warrant a call-up to the Bigs. What to do if Nick continues to implode?

Dunno. Maybe hand the setup assignment to Fisher, as pitching in the 8th isn't that much different from pitching in the 6th or 7th innings. If Ondrusek goes down and Fisher comes up, I wouldn't be surprised to see Masset temporarily get reassigned to Ondrusek's "floater" role. Not saying it will happen, but Masset didn't look in sync during spring training, and the wheels have fallen off for him since the season began.

Thus, with one simple roster shuffle, our bullpen could get reoriented toward success again. I'm not so sure about the starters, though. What's with these guys? Whether veterans or kids, they seem to be suffering from severe spring allergies limiting their ability to pitch beyond five or six innings. Not good.

fearofpopvol1
04-21-2010, 12:12 AM
The bullpen hasn't been that bad IMO. It's really 2 guys...Masset and Ondrusek. Ondrusek is a rookie for crying out loud. He's not really been put in situations to help him succeed in my opinion (ie bases loaded, tie games)...I think he has not been broken in the right way. He may suck, but he hasn't had an easy cup of coffee.

Masset on the other hand has sucked. In fairness though, he was good last year and he has had 11 Ks in 6.2 innings pitched this year. His biggest problem, which is a major problem of the starting staff, has been too many walks.

Caveat Emperor
04-21-2010, 12:25 AM
After tonight 78 RA, 64 RS. About middle of the pack offensively, bottom 5 in MLB in pitching. Shocked. Such a deep and exciting rotation, no need for TOR.

We understand that you're very impressed with your own pessimistic prognostications regarding the 2010 Reds. I already told you in another thread that the act was getting tired, but let me try again:

Knock it off. Final warning.

WVRedsFan
04-21-2010, 12:31 AM
The bullpen will be fine. Mark it down.

M2
04-21-2010, 01:12 AM
The bullpen will be fine. Mark it down.

You're probably right. As long as a team has a guy to close, it generally can sort through the rest and come up with something workable.

Rojo
04-21-2010, 11:56 AM
You're probably right. As long as a team has a guy to close, it generally can sort through the rest and come up with something workable.

Yep, bullpens need to largely re-invented every year, having a go-to closer makes it pretty easy.

I expect we'd have trouble but I thought it would come from Herrara (5'6") or Rhodes (40 y.o.).

TRF
04-21-2010, 12:02 PM
And yet the reliever you most often read that folks around here want traded away is?

I'm telling you, this is Bizarro World. The regular Earth is on the other side of the sun.

That's where New Krypton is.

Bizarro Earth is somewhere else.

OnBaseMachine
04-29-2010, 11:08 PM
I'm worried Cordero is going to be worn out by midseason. This team plays a ton of close games. A lot of unnessary close games I might add. Tonight's game should have been a blowout - the Reds had runners on 1st and 3rd with only one out in the 2nd inning = no runs. Runner on second and nobody out in the 4th inning = no runs. Bases loaded and only one out in the 9th inning = no runs. Winning close games is obviously much better than losing but it would be nice if the Reds could have some comfortable wins every now and again.

Caveat Emperor
04-29-2010, 11:11 PM
Don't look now, but Mike Lincoln is suddenly an effective relief pitcher again.

Tom Servo
04-29-2010, 11:13 PM
I'm worried Cordero is going to be worn out by midseason. This team plays a ton of close games. A lot of unnessary close games I might add. Tonight's game should have been a blowout - the Reds had runners on 1st and 3rd with only one out in the 2nd inning = no runs. Runner on second and nobody out in the 4th inning = no runs. Bases loaded and only one out in the 9th inning = no runs. Winning close games is obviously much better than losing but it would be nice if the Reds could have some comfortable wins every now and again.
I'd try and let Rhodes close out a game now and then.

kaldaniels
04-29-2010, 11:18 PM
Don't look now, but Mike Lincoln is suddenly an effective relief pitcher again.

Someone on here in reference to the Reds poor start about 7 days ago said one step was to DFA Lincoln. I retorted...umm the guy with the 3.60 ERA (that was a few days ago) is the one you want to release to help turn things around?

In all seriousness, his pitches have had some awesome movement to them. Good for him.

HokieRed
04-29-2010, 11:18 PM
Anybody got any word on Burton? I see Massett and Burton as keys; they've got to be there to take some of the pressure off later in the season. Plus, I agree with OBM that this team needs to learn how to close some games out early.

mth123
04-30-2010, 02:27 AM
Someone on here in reference to the Reds poor start about 7 days ago said one step was to DFA Lincoln. I retorted...umm the guy with the 3.60 ERA (that was a few days ago) is the one you want to release to help turn things around?

In all seriousness, his pitches have had some awesome movement to them. Good for him.

I don't think I'm resposnsible for that particular post, but I have been wanting the Reds to cut ties with Lincoln for a while. I've gotta say that he has been quite effective and I'm glad the Reds kept him around. He seems to have picked-up the slack for a poorly performing Masset.

Nice story for Lincoln and a very nice turn of events for the Reds. Lets just not push our luck with the guy and keep him to 1 inning stints.

fearofpopvol1
04-30-2010, 03:35 AM
Herrera has been so solid. Seems like every time he comes in, he either gets a K or a groundball.

Ron Madden
04-30-2010, 04:26 AM
Any GM, Manager, Pitching Coach or Fan should ALWAYS worry about the pen.

Bullpens are made up of ups and downs,pins and needles. It's the nature of the beast.

nate
04-30-2010, 08:36 AM
Lincoln has pitched nicely since an early rough patch. I didn't see him throw the big curveball last night but that is a serious knee-bender when it works.

Speaking of pitches that move a lot, how about DR H? That pitch he threw for strike 2 to Kep must've been radio controlled. Wow.

bucksfan2
04-30-2010, 08:45 AM
Someone on here in reference to the Reds poor start about 7 days ago said one step was to DFA Lincoln. I retorted...umm the guy with the 3.60 ERA (that was a few days ago) is the one you want to release to help turn things around?

In all seriousness, his pitches have had some awesome movement to them. Good for him.

Lincoln was awful last season and people were calling for his release. I don't think we fully understand the scope of his injury last year. I have heard reports about him not being able to feel his right had at times on the mound. I really think that had more to do with his ineffectiveness than anything else last year.

_Sir_Charles_
04-30-2010, 09:25 AM
Well, I certainly called for Lincoln's head a few times during ST...I understood that they saw something they liked. He's clearly got good stuff. But I hadn't seen that good curve in a while. With that back, it's a whole new Mike. Congrats.

Falls City Beer
04-30-2010, 09:27 AM
Lincoln's not great, but as I said some months ago--guys who can throw 94 MPH out of the pen can help--if they throw strikes. I still think, in time, he can throw more than just one inning in an appearance.

Hoosier Red
04-30-2010, 10:02 AM
Lincoln's not great, but as I said some months ago--guys who can throw 94 MPH out of the pen can help--if they throw strikes. I still think, in time, he can throw more than just one inning in an appearance.

I think if the Reds were a little more settled on their rotation going into ST, they may have continued trying to stretch him out. Ass it was, they had 4 pitchers doing well and needed to decide which ones to keep.

TRF
04-30-2010, 11:25 AM
Someone on here in reference to the Reds poor start about 7 days ago said one step was to DFA Lincoln. I retorted...umm the guy with the 3.60 ERA (that was a few days ago) is the one you want to release to help turn things around?

In all seriousness, his pitches have had some awesome movement to them. Good for him.

That was me.

He still makes me nervous. I think he eventually turns back into a pumpkin.

Scrap Irony
04-30-2010, 03:33 PM
Lincoln was awful last season and people were calling for his release. I don't think we fully understand the scope of his injury last year. I have heard reports about him not being able to feel his right had at times on the mound. I really think that had more to do with his ineffectiveness than anything else last year.

I've suffered from the same symptoms as Lincoln and I can tell you, it's virtually impossible to go about your day, let alone pitch a baseball. I couldn't write on the board, I couldn't type, I couldn't hold anything. (Which is why Lincoln's 2009 should have been forgotten or ignored by everyone, but, hey, try explaining that to Red fans angry over losing an early game to the Cardinals.)

That he was able to throw a baseball at all is a minor miracle. Now that he's apparently healthy, I'm betting he'll be around league average, much like he was in 2008 (99 ERA+). That has some value as a middle reliever.

TRF
04-30-2010, 03:41 PM
I've suffered from the same symptoms as Lincoln and I can tell you, it's virtually impossible to go about your day, let alone pitch a baseball. I couldn't write on the board, I couldn't type, I couldn't hold anything. (Which is why Lincoln's 2009 should have been forgotten or ignored by everyone, but, hey, try explaining that to Red fans angry over losing an early game to the Cardinals.)

That he was able to throw a baseball at all is a minor miracle. Now that he's apparently healthy, I'm betting he'll be around league average, much like he was in 2008 (99 ERA+). That has some value as a middle reliever.

He's also a guy that was out of the game for four years. He's coming off his second major injury and he's 35 years old.

To say this might not last isn't hating, its realism.

Being league average does have value. it's also easier to replace cheaply.

Homer Bailey
04-30-2010, 03:46 PM
That was me.

He still makes me nervous. I think he eventually turns back into a pumpkin.

I'm with you.

OnBaseMachine
04-30-2010, 03:51 PM
I was hoping the Reds would DFA Lincoln in Spring Training, but I have to admit, he's really surprised me so far. I won't get too excited yet though because he got off to a good start in 2008 and then struggled badly in the second half.

Will M
04-30-2010, 05:56 PM
I was hoping the Reds would DFA Lincoln in Spring Training, but I have to admit, he's really surprised me so far. I won't get too excited yet though because he got off to a good start in 2008 and then struggled badly in the second half.

i was all for a spring DFA until i heard someone (Chris Welsh? Jeff Brantley?) say that Lincoln's bread and butter is his curveball & that it doesn't break in the spring Arizona weather. therefore his spring stats don't mean much.

it is pretty amazing that Lincoln can have cervical herniated disk surgery & come back 100%. hats off to his surgeon as well as his physical therapist.

fearofpopvol1
05-01-2010, 02:38 AM
Herrera sucked tonight, but nice job by Rhodes, Masset and Cordero to pick up the slack. Lots of scary moments mixed in, but they did very well. As did Lincoln.

OnBaseMachine
05-01-2010, 04:32 PM
Unlike last year, I have absoltuely no confidence in this bullpen. They are brutal. Francisco Cordero and Arthur Rhodes are the only two relievers on the team who I have any faith in. These guys make a ton of dumb mistakes. How do you walk Brendan Ryan with two outs? The guy is one of the worst hitters in the game. You don't walk him like Fisher did. And then there's Mike Lincoln coming in and walking Ryan Ludwick to load the bases for Albert Pujols. Brilliant.

The bullpen needs a makeover.

TheNext44
05-01-2010, 04:36 PM
Unlike last year, I have absoltuely no confidence in this bullpen. They are brutal. Francisco Cordero and Arthur Rhodes are the only two relievers on the team who I have any faith in. These guys make a ton of dumb mistakes. How do you walk Brendan Ryan with two outs? The guy is one of the worst hitters in the game. You don't walk him like Fisher did. And then there's Mike Lincoln coming in and walking Ryan Ludwick to load the bases for Albert Pujols. Brilliant.

The bullpen needs a makeover.

This bullpen just needs a rest. And a manager who pitches someone other than Rhodes and Cordero when the team has a lead.

reds44
05-01-2010, 04:38 PM
I would have much rather walked Ryan than grooved him one. The bullpen is gassed right now.

Will M
05-01-2010, 04:41 PM
I tend to agree that Coco & Rhodes are the only 2 guys I have faith in late in a close game. It would really help if Masset partied like its 2009 or someone else stepped up and became another reliable 8th inning guy.

Its conceivable that the pen could get a 100mph addition at some point. I doubt Chapman stays in AAA all year. Depends on where the team is at. If we fall back maybe Arroyo/Harang get dealth and Chapman joins the rotation. If we stay close maybe he joins the pen.

Side note: watching Rhodes pitch this year makes me want him back for 2011. it doesn't matter how old he is, he can still pitch.

Hoosier Red
05-01-2010, 05:12 PM
I would have much rather walked Ryan than grooved him one. The bullpen is gassed right now.

Groove him one? He threw it high and outside, and Ryan swung and got just enough to push it into left field.

Or did I watch another game and Ryan instead smoked a pitch for a home run?

fearofpopvol1
05-01-2010, 05:34 PM
The pen, outside of Herrera, was excellent last night. They made some tough pitches. Today, not as great, but supposedly Lincoln was injured, which would make the day seem not as bad.

Just shows how fickle and impatient some RZ posters can be.

They need rest more than anything.

Ron Madden
05-01-2010, 06:30 PM
The pen, outside of Herrera, was excellent last night. They made some tough pitches. Today, not as great, but supposedly Lincoln was injured, which would make the day seem not as bad.

Just shows how fickle and impatient some RZ posters can be.

They need rest more than anything.

Fay says Lincoln isn't injured. Price just went to the mound to stall.

fearofpopvol1
05-03-2010, 02:13 AM
Masset is sure strange. Dude has 19 strikeouts in 11 innings. That's insane. But he has walked 9 batters and given up 3 bombs too. He has great stuff...but he just needs to be consistent. He definitely has the talent.

RedsManRick
05-03-2010, 02:34 AM
Masset is sure strange. Dude has 19 strikeouts in 11 innings. That's insane. But he has walked 9 batters and given up 3 bombs too. He has great stuff...but he just needs to be consistent. He definitely has the talent.

He seems like he's trying to throw the pitches through a wall. He hit 97 on the gun today. Maybe a little less velocity and a little more control would do him good.

jmcclain19
05-03-2010, 02:50 AM
He seems like he's trying to throw the pitches through a wall. He hit 97 on the gun today. Maybe a little less velocity and a little more control would do him good.

Absolutely agree with this.

Stuff wise, Masset runs circles around most in the pen (and most relievers the Reds have had in the past decade).

He definitely has a tendency to over throw - which takes his great fastball and makes it a flat batting practice pitch.

Interestingly, I poked around for a few minutes on FanGraphs and there are some interesting numbers for Masset this season

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=7267&position=P&pitch=FA

Velocity appears to be all there (and man was he amped up on Opening Day) - but he's using his slider much less this season

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.aspx?playerid=7267&position=P

And it looks like all his pitches are breaking less than in 2009 - with the lone exception being his curveball's vertical drop.

Small sample size but worth monitoring.

mth123
05-03-2010, 06:22 AM
Absolutely agree with this.

Stuff wise, Masset runs circles around most in the pen (and most relievers the Reds have had in the past decade).

He definitely has a tendency to over throw - which takes his great fastball and makes it a flat batting practice pitch.

Interestingly, I poked around for a few minutes on FanGraphs and there are some interesting numbers for Masset this season

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=7267&position=P&pitch=FA

Velocity appears to be all there (and man was he amped up on Opening Day) - but he's using his slider much less this season

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.aspx?playerid=7267&position=P

And it looks like all his pitches are breaking less than in 2009 - with the lone exception being his curveball's vertical drop.

Small sample size but worth monitoring.

In '09 he prepapred as a starter and had to use, and work on, all his pitches in the bigger inning role. In 2010 he got less tha 8 IP in Spring training. Not really enough to get all those pitches going. He needs to be stretched out where he uses all these pitches. I say phantom DL trip with a rehab stint where he goes 2 or 3 innings at a time for a couple weeks. Maybe even give him a start or two in AAA. It will do him some good IMO.

PuffyPig
05-03-2010, 08:02 AM
This bullpen just needs a rest. And a manager who pitches someone other than Rhodes and Cordero when the team has a lead.

The strategy of using Rhodes and Cordero with a lead is likely the reason we are close to .500. The only reason.

Kc61
05-03-2010, 12:58 PM
Hope Walt is on the lookout for another late inning option for this bullpen. In games where Rhodes and Cordero don't pitch, it's a real question whether the pen will get the team through.

I don't see anyone at AAA, unless they convert a starting pitcher like, say, Maloney, but he is starting in Louisville. No sign they intend for him to relieve.

It would be worth it for the Reds to trade one good prospect to get that additional late inning option, someone to take the Weathers spot in the pen. It could really improve the team's record this year.

PuffyPig
05-03-2010, 02:11 PM
It would be worth it for the Reds to trade one good prospect to get that additional late inning option, someone to take the Weathers spot in the pen. It could really improve the team's record this year.


I doubt you would fine any sure bet reliever you could trade for that would be more certain than a guy like, say Massett. You might get a Lincoln type ofn a salary dump. But we already have a Lincoln type.

HokieRed
05-03-2010, 02:21 PM
Hope Walt is on the lookout for another late inning option for this bullpen. In games where Rhodes and Cordero don't pitch, it's a real question whether the pen will get the team through.

I don't see anyone at AAA, unless they convert a starting pitcher like, say, Maloney, but he is starting in Louisville. No sign they intend for him to relieve.

It would be worth it for the Reds to trade one good prospect to get that additional late inning option, someone to take the Weathers spot in the pen. It could really improve the team's record this year.

Agree. I've said this a number of times lately. We either need a guy now in the majors or somebody experienced who's in the middle of a successful rehab now at AAA. If I were Walt, I'd be scouring the AAA results nightly.

fearofpopvol1
05-03-2010, 04:14 PM
Absolutely agree with this.

Stuff wise, Masset runs circles around most in the pen (and most relievers the Reds have had in the past decade).

He definitely has a tendency to over throw - which takes his great fastball and makes it a flat batting practice pitch.

Interestingly, I poked around for a few minutes on FanGraphs and there are some interesting numbers for Masset this season

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=7267&position=P&pitch=FA

Velocity appears to be all there (and man was he amped up on Opening Day) - but he's using his slider much less this season

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfx.aspx?playerid=7267&position=P

And it looks like all his pitches are breaking less than in 2009 - with the lone exception being his curveball's vertical drop.

Small sample size but worth monitoring.

I also saw during the telecast either on Saturday or Sunday that Masset has the 3rd highest swing and miss rate of anyone in baseball (I think it was 36%). Only Lincecum and Haren had better.

Chip R
05-04-2010, 09:41 AM
Bullpen looked good last night.

OnBaseMachine
05-04-2010, 12:32 PM
Bullpen looked good last night.

Yep, but I can't get too excited yet. Last week in Houston Masset had an absolute dominant outing and appeared to be turning the corner, only to come back the next night and struggle badly. His stuff has been nasty all season (22 K's in 13 IP) but his location has been off and on. Hopefully he can get things going because he's a huge key to the Reds bullpen.

VR
05-04-2010, 06:33 PM
Yep, but I can't get too excited yet. Last week in Houston Masset had an absolute dominant outing and appeared to be turning the corner, only to come back the next night and struggle badly. His stuff has been nasty all season (22 K's in 13 IP) but his location has been off and on. Hopefully he can get things going because he's a huge key to the Reds bullpen.

I think he'll be fantastic once he stops overthrowing when he's ahead in the count.

RedsManRick
05-04-2010, 08:10 PM
I also saw during the telecast either on Saturday or Sunday that Masset has the 3rd highest swing and miss rate of anyone in baseball (I think it was 36%). Only Lincecum and Haren had better.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=10&type=5&season=2010&month=0

Contact% (min 10 IP)
Marmol: 58.5%
Villanueva: 61.0%
Hensley: 63.1%
Masset: 64.6%

Unfortunately, that's not the only stat he's among MLB leaders in. He's thrown fewer balls in the strike zone that anybody in baseball, just 37.2% I guess some hitters are just impatient.

OnBaseMachine
05-04-2010, 09:45 PM
Well, the Reds crap bullpen showed up again tonight. Carlos Fisher was dominant in the 8th inning as he struckout Reyes, Bay, and Wright, but Cordero come on in the 9th inning and gave up a two out HR to the great Rod Barajas. Goodness. Rod Barajas.

But that wasn't even the most frustrating thing of the night. That would belong to Bronson Arroyo and his lead off walk to Luis Castillo in the 6th inning - Castillo, btw, is barely slugging over .300. I'm sick of tired of watching Reds pitchers walk weak hitters. Brendan Ryan, Luis Castillo, and while he's not a weak hitter, how many times did the Reds walk Ryan Ludwick with Pujols on deck? This pitching staff walks way too many hitters.

Big Klu
05-05-2010, 12:17 AM
Rod Barajas leads all MLB catchers with 7 HR's.

WVRedsFan
05-05-2010, 12:26 AM
Codero rarely throws a strike. I noticed tonight that he had no called strikes (according to ESPN). He gets behind and players wait on the meatball. That works sometimes and sometimes not. Tonight it didn't. Bad time for it not to work.

Tom Servo
05-05-2010, 01:00 AM
Rod Barajas leads all MLB catchers with 7 HR's.
He also hit 19 of them last year.