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View Full Version : Saturday's Game vs. Cubs: Time to second guess Dusty



Vottomatic
04-10-2010, 04:46 PM
Why send Francisco up to bat in the 9th? 3 K's to that point against a guy who's all over the place? Just plain stupid.

I would have pulled Francisco before his third at-bat and inserted Rolen. Game too close not to make some moves.

Why even start Francisco against a top line pitcher like Zambrano? I don't get it.

Jack Burton
04-10-2010, 04:49 PM
Why send Francisco up to bat in the 9th? 3 K's to that point against a guy who's all over the place? Just plain stupid.

I would have pulled Francisco before his third at-bat and inserted Rolen. Game to close not to make some moves.

Why even start Francisco against a top line pitcher like Zambrano? I don't get it.

Exactly, that ninth inning was an embarrassment.

FlyerFanatic
04-10-2010, 04:53 PM
but is anyone surprised? i mean this has been going on dustys entire tenure. again, this hopefully is the final season with toothpick

Knightro28
04-10-2010, 04:54 PM
You can second guess Dusty, but what were his options in the ninth? Pinch hit Nix there instead of for Hanigan? Or pinch hit a right-hander?

Rolen needed a day off. Not 5 innings off.

This was a game lost purely by the players on the field, not the manager.

mdccclxix
04-10-2010, 04:56 PM
I agree with Knight, the players lost this game by striking out 13 times.

Personally, I think it's Juan's job to lose as the first LH bat off the bench. Perhaps he lost it today with 4 K's.

GIDP
04-10-2010, 05:05 PM
Francisco is just an extra player until leake. He will be sent down tomorrow. Pretty sure this has been the plan since he made the team in the spring.

Knightro28
04-10-2010, 05:09 PM
Francisco is just an extra player until leake. He will be sent down tomorrow. Pretty sure this has been the plan since he made the team in the spring.

Reminds me of a Spring Training game where cuts are made after a game instead of before, so people get some action in before getting sent down.

GIDP
04-10-2010, 05:12 PM
Reminds me of a Spring Training game where cuts are made after a game instead of before, so people get some action in before getting sent down.

Yep, basically the same thing I was thinking.

bleedsred
04-10-2010, 05:33 PM
Dusty can't bat for the players. I'm just not sold on Jacoby as the hitting instructor, the approach at the plate of most of our hitters is terrible...no gameplan. Hack away at a guy like Marmol is moronic....the Reds hitters in the ninth were completely overmatched. The only place in the game were I would have wanted Dusty to try something different was when the Reds had the first two reach with Hanigan (inning??) coming up...why not sac them over with no outs and try a suicide bunt with Harang....could have pitch ran for Juan with Janish and rolled the dice. Oh well....

Jay Bruce does seem ready to break out....he hit some lasors out there.

FlyerFanatic
04-10-2010, 06:14 PM
Dusty can't bat for the players. I'm just not sold on Jacoby as the hitting instructor, the approach at the plate of most of our hitters is terrible...no gameplan. Hack away at a guy like Marmol is moronic....the Reds hitters in the ninth were completely overmatched. The only place in the game were I would have wanted Dusty to try something different was when the Reds had the first two reach with Hanigan (inning??) coming up...why not sac them over with no outs and try a suicide bunt with Harang....could have pitch ran for Juan with Janish and rolled the dice. Oh well....

Jay Bruce does seem ready to break out....he hit some lasors out there.

why would you want dusty hitting for the players? dusty would be just as bad. i'm not sure what jacoby's role is. in my opinion both him and price are letting dusty manage too much. price and jacoby need to take control of their respective roles. i dont believe jacoby is the one stressing the hack style. thats dusty, dusty wants his players to be "aggressive" at the plate. i remember when taveras was struggling and dusty talked about how he was working with him...how did that turn out?

theres no question a lot of wins/losses are determined by the talent on the field, and if the reds had the payroll of the yankees we would get the vet players that would have us contending. the problem is, we dont, and we rely on young talent and playing solid baseball. a lot of people feel he isnt putting the best product on the field, which in turn doesnt give us the best chance to win. its like taking something thats broken and breaking it up even more expecting better results.

again, we only have so many options in the pen, most understand that, but when dusty brings in lincoln when theres other options, it leaves you scratching your head. just like some of the other decisions , and of course when those decisions cost us games, hes gonna get called out.

Vottomatic
04-10-2010, 06:20 PM
I would have told all 3 ninth inning batters to take all the pitches. They would have been better off considering Marmol's reputation for walking alot of hitters and being wild.

kfm
04-10-2010, 07:46 PM
I agree with Knight, the players lost this game by striking out 13 times.

Personally, I think it's Juan's job to lose as the first LH bat off the bench. Perhaps he lost it today with 4 K's.

I agree, the players lose about 99% of games. This constant refusal to make the players, except for ones people don't like, responsible for any loss is being made fun of on a daily basis by everyone who covers this team. Lance McCallister is no fan of Dusty's but he is at a loss to understand how everything Dusty does or does not do is responsible for every game the Reds have lost in the eyes of so many fans.

Mutaman
04-10-2010, 07:51 PM
I have a request: why don't you Baker bashers post your complaints before the fact, not afterwards. In other words why can't one of you guys ever post
"Somebody should pinch-hit for Francisco" or "I would not bring in Ondrusek"
before seeing the results of the move, not after. Just once. Sorry, I just really really hate second guessers.

GIDP
04-10-2010, 07:53 PM
I have a request: why don't you Baker bashers post your complaints before the fact, not afterwards. In other words why can't one of you guys ever post
"Somebody should pinch-hit for Francisco" or "I would not bring in Ondrusek"
before seeing the results of the move, not after. Just once. Sorry, I just really really hate second guessers.

You should read the other game threads. Plenty of people bring things up before.

Mutaman
04-10-2010, 07:58 PM
Lance McCallister is no fan of Dusty's but he is at a loss to understand how everything Dusty does or does not do is responsible for every game the Reds have lost in the eyes of so many fans.

Two reasons:

1. Over the years its been pretty clear that in general Reds fans are a notorious bunch of second guessers and love to blame the manager when the team fails.

2. Some fans especially like to blame Baker when we lose because----well, we all know why.

Mutaman
04-10-2010, 08:02 PM
You should read the other game threads. Plenty of people bring things up before.

Give me an example. And for every example you give me, I'll give you one wher baker was right and the poster was wrong. I sure didn't see anybody posting that somebody should pinch hit for Francisco until AFTER Francisco struck out. But I sure saw plenty of people posting that somebody should pinch hit for Gomes in the 9th inning Thursday afternoon. How did that work out?

GIDP
04-10-2010, 08:07 PM
Give me an example. And for every example you give me, I'll give you one wher baker was right and the poster was wrong. I sure didn't see anybody posting that somebody should pinch hit for Francisco until AFTER Francisco struck out. But I sure saw plenty of people posting that somebody should pinch hit for Gomes in the 9th inning Thursday afternoon. How did that work out?

You should read threads. ORG game threads have a lot of posters in it. To suggest that no one second guesses until its happened is kinda short sighted.

TC81190
04-10-2010, 08:17 PM
We don't know what the game situation was. Who's to say Rolen was in shape to pinch hit or even start today? I would not assume that every time a player is hurting or maybe just in need of some rest or whatever may happen, that the manager is going to remark about it so we know about it.

Jack Burton
04-10-2010, 11:54 PM
Some fans especially like to blame Baker when we lose because----well, we all know why.
Why? I don't follow.

Vottomatic
04-11-2010, 03:42 AM
Two reasons:
2. Some fans especially like to blame Baker when we lose because----well, we all know why.

Yeah, we do. Because it's partially his fault. :beerme:

Mr Larkin
04-11-2010, 08:00 PM
I still don't understand the Dusty hating. Most of the losses are on the guys on the field. The manager is not normally in a position to "win" or "lose " a game. It happens, but not frequently.

Griffey012
04-11-2010, 10:28 PM
Dusty should actually be given some credit for giving Rolen the day off on Saturday and not Sunday like they usually do. That way Rolen was able to stay in the lineup against the Lefty today and played well. Sunday seems to be the day most managers give their players the day off. At least Dusty was looking ahead with a plan when he made out the lineup which doesn't always seem to be the case.

bgwilly31
04-12-2010, 11:56 AM
I have a request: why don't you Baker bashers post your complaints before the fact, not afterwards. In other words why can't one of you guys ever post
"Somebody should pinch-hit for Francisco" or "I would not bring in Ondrusek"
before seeing the results of the move, not after. Just once. Sorry, I just really really hate second guessers.

I did say it. Check the game thread,

Request granted.


And its also called a forum. Most reds fans like to watch the game. Not see a player is coming to the plate and then leave the tv to go post on a forum.

You dont have to be very baseball smart to realize that francisco who had looked like a fool all game. Was a not a good choice in the 9th inning in that situation.