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View Full Version : Central Division Anyone?



TheNext44
04-11-2010, 11:26 PM
It's way too early to draw any conclusions, but...

Trevor Hoffman has gotten hit hard 3 out of his 4 appearances so far this year, and absolutely hammered in his last two. The Brewers don't have the starting pitching to handle an imploding closer.

Chris Carpenter has gotten hit hard in his two appearances this year. Franklin has been hit hard so far this year too, as has the rest of the bullpen. Their defense has been suspect so far.

We saw just Cubs and their pen and defense.

The Astros and Pirates are the Astros and the Pirates.

The Reds definitely have a lot of problems, mainly their offense, but I think they clearly are not in much worse shape than anyone else in the division.

Basically, it looks like it will be pretty ugly this summer in the NL Central.

durl
04-11-2010, 11:52 PM
I agree, it's very early to say that what we've seen from other division teams in the past week will continue. It would be nice if the Reds' pitching dominates the division, but I also believe that the Cards and Cubs would go out and get what they need if their current roster doesn't pan out...and they may still turn things around.

Still, it's interesting to consider that the Reds could have the best pitching staff in the division.

RedEye
04-12-2010, 12:11 AM
The Reds definitely have a lot of problems, mainly their offense, but I think they clearly are not in much worse shape than anyone else in the division.

Just the kind of contorted phraseology that the Lost Decade has pounded into our poor heads, eh? Seriously though, I agree with you... although I think the Cardinals as currently constructed (around one of the best players ever) can probably stand to lose a bit of pitching and still be competitive.

Captain Hook
04-12-2010, 12:13 AM
but I also believe that the Cards and Cubs would go out and get what they need if their current roster doesn't pan out

Is there any question that the Card will add at least 1 impact player, probably a SP?

REDblooded
04-12-2010, 12:27 AM
Is there any question that the Card will add at least 1 impact player, probably a SP?

From what? Last year they had a few pretty highly regarded prospects in Brett Wallace and Chris Perez to flip... Now go and take a look at their system... This isn't a team that has a lot of resources to improve in a hurry. It's pretty much what you see is what you get... They have a few decent players in their system but none are really close to being polished or of the status that would land them a significant difference maker... I'm telling you right now, the Cardinals may have a few of the best players in the division, but their margin of error is RAZOR thin... If anybody goes down they don't have the means to make an upgrade....

Mario-Rijo
04-12-2010, 12:39 AM
Just the kind of contorted phraseology that the Lost Decade has pounded into our poor heads, eh? Seriously though, I agree with you... although I think the Cardinals as currently constructed (around one of the best players ever) can probably stand to lose a bit of pitching and still be competitive.

I agree though I think they have already lost all the pitching they really can afford to lose. Their BP is already shaky and way to defense dependent and their starters well, they can't afford to lose anyone.

WVRedsFan
04-12-2010, 01:44 AM
Watched the Cardinals-Brewers game. In that game you can see what one player can do. Yes, the Brewers won, but it was Albert followed by Mr. H and it was devastating for the Brewers. For awhile. The Reds need an impact player, As of now, we don't have one and as long as that is the case, the Cardinals rule the Central. We're playing for the Wild Card. That's all.

Guacarock
04-12-2010, 01:55 AM
From what? Last year they had a few pretty highly regarded prospects in Brett Wallace and Chris Perez to flip... Now go and take a look at their system... This isn't a team that has a lot of resources to improve in a hurry. It's pretty much what you see is what you get... They have a few decent players in their system but none are really close to being polished or of the status that would land them a significant difference maker... I'm telling you right now, the Cardinals may have a few of the best players in the division, but their margin of error is RAZOR thin... If anybody goes down they don't have the means to make an upgrade....

They do have that one player in reserve that a lot of teams covet -- Pile O' Cash.

fearofpopvol1
04-12-2010, 02:12 AM
They do have that one player in reserve that a lot of teams covet -- Pile O' Cash.

I think that's a little farfetched. Pujols' deal is almost up and they just spent a ton of jack on Holliday. They're gearing up to make an enormous offer to Pujols. I don't know that they will have a ton to spend moving forward.

reds44
04-12-2010, 03:38 AM
The Reds major need is a power bat in LF. If the Reds are in it at the deadline and willing to deal prospects, it's a spot that they can probably fill. Normally there are guys like that available around the deadline.

RedEye
04-12-2010, 11:14 AM
Watched the Cardinals-Brewers game. In that game you can see what one player can do. Yes, the Brewers won, but it was Albert followed by Mr. H and it was devastating for the Brewers. For awhile. The Reds need an impact player, As of now, we don't have one and as long as that is the case, the Cardinals rule the Central. We're playing for the Wild Card. That's all.

The Brewers arguably have two impact players--Fielder and Braun--and they still can't really keep up with the Cards. That has always surprised me, but perhaps it has to do with MKE not being able to get together their pitching. OTOH, maybe it is just that STL understands what they have in Albert--and how to surround him with the right talent to succeed.

Tom Servo
04-12-2010, 11:37 AM
The Cardinals will win the division. Sad, but true.

bucksfan2
04-12-2010, 11:57 AM
Every team in the Central has some serious flaws. I think St Louis is the best team on paper and I think our Reds are the one team in the division that can challenge. As for the other teams here are my thoughts.

Cubs - Just a team on the fringe of implosion. Soriano and Fukudome both have awful contracts and won't be able to move. The pen is a disaster than their roster is getting older. Lee and Ramirez are good players but can they stay healthy? Lou's walks to the mound will continue to get longer as the season goes along.

Brewers - Pitching issues. I thought they were being overshadowed this season but they look to have pitching issues up and down their staff. I almost look for Prince to be traded at some point this season. He was upset when Braun got a long term contract and expect him to be gone.

Astro's - Talk about an organization in bad shape. Their stars are all at the tail end of their careers and they have little in the pipeline. McClane may try to spend himself out of it but I don't see it working.

Pirates - Heading in the right direction but I don't think any success will be seen for another couple of years.

Screwball
04-12-2010, 12:01 PM
The Cardinals will win the division if they stay healthy.

As another poster mentioned, the Cards' don't offer much in terms of depth. Keep in mind that Carpenter's arm is still held together with duct tape and bubble gum. If someone like him goes down to injury - which is a real possibility - then the division is wide open, IMO.

Joseph
04-12-2010, 12:22 PM
Carpenter has been hit a bit early this season, but at the end of the day he's still Chris Carpenter. If I'm the Cards I'm not worrying about him one bit [unless of course they know of some nagging malady].

The division is the Cards to lose, but the post does illustrate that there are problems for us all so hope can at least trickle its way into our dreams at night.

bucksfan2
04-12-2010, 12:33 PM
Carpenter has been hit a bit early this season, but at the end of the day he's still Chris Carpenter. If I'm the Cards I'm not worrying about him one bit [unless of course they know of some nagging malady].

The division is the Cards to lose, but the post does illustrate that there are problems for us all so hope can at least trickle its way into our dreams at night.

Don't really know what to think of Carpenter. Guy is 35 and has had 3 injury shortened seasons over the past decade. So yea at the end of the day he still is Chris Carpenter, whatever that is.

REDblooded
04-12-2010, 03:01 PM
Don't really know what to think of Carpenter. Guy is 35 and has had 3 injury shortened seasons over the past decade. So yea at the end of the day he still is Chris Carpenter, whatever that is.

I can't stay far away enough from players 33 and older... This isn't 10 years ago where players could "magically" avoid aging...

Will M
04-12-2010, 03:08 PM
Every team in the Central has some serious flaws. I think St Louis is the best team on paper and I think our Reds are the one team in the division that can challenge. As for the other teams here are my thoughts.

Cubs - Just a team on the fringe of implosion. Soriano and Fukudome both have awful contracts and won't be able to move. The pen is a disaster than their roster is getting older. Lee and Ramirez are good players but can they stay healthy? Lou's walks to the mound will continue to get longer as the season goes along.

Brewers - Pitching issues. I thought they were being overshadowed this season but they look to have pitching issues up and down their staff. I almost look for Prince to be traded at some point this season. He was upset when Braun got a long term contract and expect him to be gone.

Astro's - Talk about an organization in bad shape. Their stars are all at the tail end of their careers and they have little in the pipeline. McClane may try to spend himself out of it but I don't see it working.

Pirates - Heading in the right direction but I don't think any success will be seen for another couple of years.

yep.

the Cards starters are about equal to the Reds overall. they have a great 1-2 but a weak 3-4-5. we have a solid 1-2-3-4-5. IMO our pen is better. Their pen was very lucky last year (fangraphs had a nice article on this).
offensively they have two studs surrounded by youth & solid but unspectacular vets. we have one stud surrounded by youth & solid but unspectacular. IMO the Reds are one thumper short & the Cards clearly are the better team. I felt this way all winter. if Walt had the money he could have swung a trade that brought us that thumper and we could win this year.

now if Carpenter suddenly goes from Cy Young to Mr Generic then we absolutely can beat them this year.

the Cubs look ugly. weak 4th & 5th starters, weak middle relief, lots of holes other than Lee & Ramirez.

the Brewers seem to do better than i think they will every year. i do agree that on paper they need a lot more pitching. i think the Reds are ahead of them.

Astros: toast

Pirates: the only team we always finish ahead of !

nate
04-12-2010, 03:20 PM
I can't stay far away enough from players 33 and older... This isn't 10 years ago where players could "magically" avoid aging...

Nor is it Logan's Run where all players are useless after age 30.

REDblooded
04-12-2010, 03:23 PM
Nor is it Logan's Run where all players are useless after age 30.

Nobody said "useless"... However, at some point these guys hit a wall and decline... So far Carpenter is 35 and hasn't declined. Could this be the season that it happens?

Strikes Out Looking
04-12-2010, 06:25 PM
I believe, if the Reds can hit it is their division to win, because for the first time in my lifetime (and I'm 45), they have the pitching needed to contend.

Captain Hook
04-12-2010, 06:50 PM
I believe, if the Reds can hit it is their division to win, because for the first time in my lifetime (and I'm 45), they have the pitching needed to contend.

I agree.It's too bad that's a really big IF that appears less and less likely to happen every time the team takes the field.

hebroncougar
04-12-2010, 07:01 PM
I believe, if the Reds can hit it is their division to win, because for the first time in my lifetime (and I'm 45), they have the pitching needed to contend.


Whoa.........the 1990 Reds say hello.

Strikes Out Looking
04-13-2010, 11:50 AM
Whoa.........the 1990 Reds say hello.

I should have clarified this--they have the deepest amount of starting pitching I've ever seen on a Reds team.