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berryluther
04-18-2010, 09:37 AM
At this pace we will be 15-20 games back at the All-Star Break. If we are going to loose why not do it with our youth?

Who's getting shipped out?

Harrang
Arroyo
Phillips
Rolen
Gomes
Cordero
Cabrera

Any more?

1990REDS
04-18-2010, 09:59 AM
At this pace we will be 15-20 games back at the All-Star Break. If we are going to loose why not do it with our youth?

Who's getting shipped out?

Harrang
Arroyo
Phillips
Rolen
Gomes
Cordero
Cabrera

Any more?

i would like to add Dusty Baker to that list. Possibly jay bruce, I think we could actually get something for him. Hes adam dunn without the 40+ homeruns.

Vottomatic
04-18-2010, 11:01 AM
I'd trade Bruce in a heartbeat. He's still got value.

He's not going to be a superstar like once projected. He might eventually put it together and be okay, but he's never going to be awesome. Too many holes in his swing.

mroby85
04-18-2010, 11:10 AM
I would definitely try to trade Harang, but I doubt anyone would be interested in him. I also wouldn't mind trading Phillips, he's a solid player, but overpaid.
I'd try to hang on to Arroyo if I could, he's pitching as well as he ever has if you go back to last season, and even his last start if you eliminate the one bad inning. I would also keep coco, but I know most people around here wouldn't, and he certainly didn't help my case last night. Keep in mind though before you're ready for a firesale the last two games couldve just as easily been wins as losses, and both games were played without rolen, and one without votto.

goreds2
04-18-2010, 12:25 PM
After 12 games?? :laugh:

Orodle
04-18-2010, 12:47 PM
After 12 games?? :laugh:

I agree. We are 2.5 games out. EVERY team will go through a stint like this at some point in the season. Hopefully we are just hitting ours now. The only two things I'm really concerned about at this point:

1. Harang, but I think hes fixable. Hes too consistent....low outside corner, low away, low away, low, low, low. He needs to change the eye level. Even Maddux had to do this, he wasnt just hitting corners the entire time.

2. The Effect of Dusty Baker. His counter effect on Brandon Phillips on what everyone has tried to fix his entire career. Hes not a #4 hitter and his problem is he thinks he is. When hes right hes hitting the ball the opposite way, however its clear his hips pop way too early on every swing trying to pull the ball. He doesnt have the bat speed to pull the ball like that. Effect on Bruce as well. When he was first coming up I heard how hes a complete hitter also willing to go the other way. After his early success I remember hearing Dusty was wanting him to try and pull the ball more for power.

Dusty simply is a joke. Everyone knows it. You dont have to look any further than him running Corey Patterson and Willie Taveras out there continuously. His logic is flawed to the point that everyone knows hes a fool. Because he was a good player doesnt mean hes a good coach.

kfm
04-18-2010, 01:31 PM
How about we wait at least a month before we start the firesale discussion. It is so clear that losing for so long doesn't just affect the players but their fans as well.

Newport Red
04-18-2010, 01:52 PM
One 3 game losing streak and the sky is falling.
That happens on road trips.

Krawhitham
04-18-2010, 02:04 PM
One 3 game losing streak and the sky is falling.
That happens on road trips.

4 games

Krawhitham
04-18-2010, 02:22 PM
At this pace we will be 15-20 games back at the All-Star Break. If we are going to loose why not do it with our youth?

Who's getting shipped out?

Harrang
Arroyo
Phillips
Rolen
Gomes
Cordero
Cabrera

Any more?


Gomes only makes 800k

Harrang, Rolen, & Cordero are untradable unless the Reds pay their contracts. The Reds tried all offseason to move Harrang & Cordero. Rolen is being overpaid and has proven he can not stay healthy.

That leaves Cabrera, Arroyo, & Phillips from your list. Arroyo is a solid pitcher who has the most quality starts for a SP over the last 4 years. You need at least on "veteran" SP when you have a young staff.

Cabrera is making 770k this season he already got 1.5 million signing bonus. But it will also cost them 1M if they do not pick up his 2011 option. so trading him only saves a prorated 1.77 M

Unless Phillips picks up the pace no one will trade for him, he is owed 10:$6.75M, 11:$11M, 12:$12M. And if he picks up the pace the Reds will not want to move him

winks
04-18-2010, 05:27 PM
5 games now. And all teams do go through a rough patch. The Reds just go through one every 3 or 4 days

FlyerFanatic
04-18-2010, 08:18 PM
5 games now. And all teams do go through a rough patch. The Reds just go through one every 3 or 4 days

do all teams get swept by the pirates? no, but the terrible teams do :thumbdown

vottofan4life
04-18-2010, 08:50 PM
I think its gonna be Rick sweet's time soon in Cincinnati....Harang will be traded but will have to be packaged with someone else if we want to get rid of him. Maybe Yonder Alonso, Chris Heisey, Juan Francisco or Brandon Phillips. We need major help at the catching position. Dont think it was a good idea to bring Ramon back. The pitching needs to step it up or Coco and Arthur Rhodes arent gonna be in Cincinnati by the end of the season

Vottomatic
04-18-2010, 10:35 PM
I'm ready for Rick Sweet.

double21d
04-19-2010, 08:30 AM
i would like to add Dusty Baker to that list. Possibly jay bruce, I think we could actually get something for him. Hes adam dunn without the 40+ homeruns.

I was thinking the same thing the other day. Bruce is like Adam Dunn without the talent.

We have to give him credit for his defense though. His arm has stopped a lot of people from stretching singles into doubles.

ian_madden
04-19-2010, 11:42 AM
I try not to make rash decisions. There will be no fire sale. We will be a 500 team. Stop worrying about it. If you want to change this team, get off your couches and go to the ballpark. Spend some money. Good God, You have an emotional investment, add some cash to it. If we spend money so will they.

nemesis
04-19-2010, 11:55 AM
Chances are the team will be close to .500 when all is said and done. But this is the last affordable year for Harang, Arroyo and Phillips. Not a slight chance in Hell Rolen gets moved after restructuring is contract. He will retire a Red. Might even become a coach in our organization once he does. Cordero is the guy I'd most like to see moved. I am sure we can find somone similar in free agency for half the cost next year. A team that doesn't finish .500 doesn't need a $12 million dollar closer. Soria would be a good one to go after.

Gomes isn't going anywhere, Cabrera might interest a few teams at the deadline since a veteran SS bat is usually in demand at the trade deadline... either way, this is his only year in a Reds uniform.

Roush's socks
04-19-2010, 02:55 PM
The reds IMO have 2 choices____

1. They could use this year to evaluate talent, develop players and settle for another mediocre season. They need to figure out the rotation with Chapman, Volquez, Wood, and Maloney all trying for spots. They could evaluate Frazier and Yonder and try to find positions for them.

2. If they want to compete this year, they would need to trade pitching for hitting. The best bet would be to package one of their starters with a prospect like Yonder or Frazier. The risk of doing this is that it is always risky to trade starting pitching.

bounty37h
04-20-2010, 11:52 AM
I was thinking the same thing the other day. Bruce is like Adam Dunn without the talent.

We have to give him credit for his defense though. His arm has stopped a lot of people from stretching singles into doubles.

so then he is nothing like DUnn?

BigJohn
04-20-2010, 12:23 PM
http://www.redreporter.com/2009/12/15/1200983/red-reposter-is-jay-bruce-the-new

berryluther
04-20-2010, 01:18 PM
IMO dealing The Donkey was a huge mistake.

BigJohn
04-20-2010, 01:44 PM
Yeah, we would sure be better off with that base clogger jogging around in Left! I mean, would it matter? :thumbdown

Vottomatic
04-20-2010, 01:57 PM
Why not try and trade Harang to the Astros for Roy Oswalt. The incentive for them is that they owe Oswalt $15M this year and $16M next year, and we only owe Harang $12.5 for this year with a $2M buyout next year.

We get the better pitcher but more high payroll. And they get out from under the obligation sooner. They're not going anywhere this year anyhow, and it just allows them to free up $$$ quicker.

Oswalt has started this year out pretty good considering their offense stinks. And we need a better starter than Harang. Oswalt has started atleast 30 or more games every year since 2004. He's never been .500 or had a losing record in any season and has a career 3.22 e.r.a.

Just an idea.

berryluther
04-20-2010, 03:43 PM
Yeah, we would sure be better off with that base clogger jogging around in Left! I mean, would it matter? :thumbdown


Yeah because Johnny Gomes is so much better.:rolleyes:

You could count on him for 40 HRs and 100 RBI. We will be lucky if all of our OF's can produce that.

Krawhitham
04-20-2010, 03:50 PM
At what point does Dusty get fired?

I know people have been screaming for his head for years, and he has made some questionable decisions this season (so has about every manager).

I do not believe the current slide is his fault, it has something to do with the hitters not hitting and the pitchers not pitching. I have also never liked Dusty, I feel he is the reason Harang is crap and Volquez needed Tommy John.

But if the slide continues the owner will want to make a splash move for 2 reasons. One to shock the team, a lot of time after a big move a team will wake and and play better, recently I can think of the Rockies in 2009, Mets in 2008 & Astros in 2004 that played considerable better after such a big move. Two a veiled attempt to prove to the fans he is about winning, if the slide continues NO ONE will be going to Reds games, they thought the attendance was bad before they have not seen anything yet.

So the question remains at what point does Dusty get fired?

Jack Burton
04-22-2010, 03:57 PM
lol @ the Reds getting swept by the Pirates. As it stands right now the Pirates have been outscored 27-1 on their way to getting swept by the Brewers.

brm7675
04-22-2010, 04:35 PM
At this pace we will be 15-20 games back at the All-Star Break. If we are going to loose why not do it with our youth?

Who's getting shipped out?

Harrang - YOu can't and won't get anything for him, no trade value

Arroyo - No reason to dump him, he is getting it done

Phillips- Is to much of a fan favorite, team won't move him.

Rolen - Owner wanted him here, no way they move him

Gomes - Why? Has a good bad

Cordero - Maybe, but a high price tag will limit takers

Cabrera - Who in the world would want him?


Any more?

brm7675
04-22-2010, 04:37 PM
I'd trade Bruce in a heartbeat. He's still got value.

He's not going to be a superstar like once projected. He might eventually put it together and be okay, but he's never going to be awesome. Too many holes in his swing.

OMG he is like what 22 years old? Sorry but Bruce goes no where...:thumbdown

brm7675
04-22-2010, 04:39 PM
Just say no to the Sweet...:thumbup:


I think its gonna be Rick sweet's time soon in Cincinnati....Harang will be traded but will have to be packaged with someone else if we want to get rid of him. Maybe Yonder Alonso, Chris Heisey, Juan Francisco or Brandon Phillips. We need major help at the catching position. Dont think it was a good idea to bring Ramon back. The pitching needs to step it up or Coco and Arthur Rhodes arent gonna be in Cincinnati by the end of the season

brm7675
04-22-2010, 04:40 PM
What ever you are smoking or drinking, put it down step away from the bar and wake up...:cool:


I was thinking the same thing the other day. Bruce is like Adam Dunn without the talent.

We have to give him credit for his defense though. His arm has stopped a lot of people from stretching singles into doubles.

brm7675
04-22-2010, 04:42 PM
I agree 100%, but I don't see Dusty getting fired. He just won't be offered a new contract..we are stuck with this idiot for the rest of the season.


At what point does Dusty get fired?

I know people have been screaming for his head for years, and he has made some questionable decisions this season (so has about every manager).

I do not believe the current slide is his fault, it has something to do with the hitters not hitting and the pitchers not pitching. I have also never liked Dusty, I feel he is the reason Harang is crap and Volquez needed Tommy John.

But if the slide continues the owner will want to make a splash move for 2 reasons. One to shock the team, a lot of time after a big move a team will wake and and play better, recently I can think of the Rockies in 2009, Mets in 2008 & Astros in 2004 that played considerable better after such a big move. Two a veiled attempt to prove to the fans he is about winning, if the slide continues NO ONE will be going to Reds games, they thought the attendance was bad before they have not seen anything yet.

So the question remains at what point does Dusty get fired?

Jack Burton
04-22-2010, 05:28 PM
lol @ the Reds getting swept by the Pirates. As it stands right now the Pirates have been outscored 27-1 on their way to getting swept by the Brewers.

The Pirates ended up getting outscored 36-1 after a 20-0 shelling today. Embarrassing yes, but who should be more embarrassed? The team that got whooped? or the team that got swept by the team that got whooped?

brm7675
04-22-2010, 06:12 PM
If Bruce could match Dunn's numbers at the plate and play the D that he can I would take that in a heart beat...:)


http://www.redreporter.com/2009/12/15/1200983/red-reposter-is-jay-bruce-the-new

cbowen2112
04-22-2010, 07:43 PM
The Pirates ended up getting outscored 36-1 after a 20-0 shelling today. Embarrassing yes, but who should be more embarrassed? The team that got whooped? or the team that got swept by the team that got whooped?

Any team can beat another team. We never fair well against the Pirates in Pitt. It is just the way is has gone for awhile. We fought back a bunch, but the starters were not good enough in that series. Also, the bats went dead for most of the games. They seem to be back now.