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Spring~Fields
04-18-2010, 02:00 PM
Cincinnati At Pittsburgh 4/18/2010


Cincinnati Avg
D. Stubbs cf .182
O. Cabrera ss .234
J. Votto 1b .310
B. Phillips 2b .244
J. Gomes lf .242
R. Hanigan c .429
J. Bruce rf .146
P. Janish 3b .286
B. Arroyo p .167

Pittsburgh
D. Young 2b .333
A. McCutchen cf .267
L. Milledge lf .273
G. Jones 1b .225
R. Church rf .500
B. Crosby 3b .273
J. Jaramillo c .200
P. Maholm p .000
R. Cedeno ss .342

Ron Madden
04-18-2010, 02:19 PM
Rolen out of the starting lineup again. :(

WVRedsFan
04-18-2010, 02:36 PM
The sad story is that Maholm is usually tough on the Reds (as is almost any lefthander), and we have little reason to believe it won't happen again today.

GAC
04-18-2010, 02:37 PM
Maholm is 2-1 vs the Reds, with an ERA around 2.50....well below his league average.

chat is open :beerme:

WVRedsFan
04-18-2010, 02:39 PM
Bruce smoked a ball to left, but pretty much right at Lastings. 1 down.

Ron Madden
04-18-2010, 02:41 PM
Bruce smoked a ball to left, but pretty much right at Lastings. 1 down.

That was Stubbs.

GAC
04-18-2010, 02:44 PM
Lefty Maholm's breaking pitch away slays lefties. Votto Ks

Ron Madden
04-18-2010, 02:45 PM
Cabrera walks
Votto K's
Phillips K's

WVRedsFan
04-18-2010, 02:46 PM
That was Stubbs.Now you see why I don't do pbp? :) Had Bruce on the brain...

As for the top of the first, yep. Maholm is just kryptonite to the Reds. Two K's, a walk and a line out and just like that...

Ron Madden
04-18-2010, 03:04 PM
No score after 2 innings.

Ron Madden
04-18-2010, 03:10 PM
Jones at 1B has robbed Bruce and Janish of extra base hits.

VR
04-18-2010, 03:30 PM
Jay Bruce has been a double-taking-away machine this year. That's at least 4 that I've witnessed to this point.

Ron Madden
04-18-2010, 03:33 PM
Jay Bruce has been a double-taking-away machine this year. That's at least 4 that I've witnessed to this point.

If he stays healthy he should win the Gold Glove for RF.

VR
04-18-2010, 03:36 PM
Jones was stunned that was ball 4:)

CTA513
04-18-2010, 03:40 PM
2-0 Pirates after Arroyo hits Crosby with the bases loaded

Ron Madden
04-18-2010, 03:40 PM
Bucs with the bses loaded, 1 out 2 runs in. Bronsan needs a DP.

VR
04-18-2010, 03:42 PM
At least Gomes can hit homeruns.

Why would he break in?

CTA513
04-18-2010, 03:42 PM
5-0 Pirates after the Pirates catcher hits a 3 run double.

jojo
04-18-2010, 03:42 PM
Fortunately left field defense doesn't matter..

CTA513
04-18-2010, 03:44 PM
Fortunately left field defense doesn't matter..

:evil:

nate
04-18-2010, 03:44 PM
So, three runs in on the double will all get charged to Bronson's ERA.

Got it.

TheNext44
04-18-2010, 03:44 PM
People wonder how not making a play can cost on average .8 runs? I think you have your answer this inning.

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 03:48 PM
:jump: BRUUUUUUCE! Dinger #1

VR
04-18-2010, 03:49 PM
I'm expecting that Bruce homerun to get disqualified somehow.

When did the Reds hire Mr. Rogers to do pbp? Monotone has a new name.

BCubb2003
04-18-2010, 03:50 PM
If Cabrera had made the play ... if Arroyo hadn't hit a batter ...

TheNext44
04-18-2010, 03:50 PM
Just for the record, if Janish was playing SS and Cabrera 3B, he probably would have had that soft liner by Church. Janish is 4 inches taller than Cabrera.

TheNext44
04-18-2010, 03:51 PM
I'm expecting that Bruce homerun to get disqualified somehow.

When did the Reds hire Mr. Rogers to do pbp? Monotone has a new name.

I'm wondering if he even likes Baseball?

alloverjr
04-18-2010, 03:58 PM
This is your new look Reds built around pitching and defense. :p:

BTW, Rolen not playing again is just a joke. Nothing personal but who didn't see this. And to cover his 50+ missed games a year you get - a .220 hitting shortstop. Brilliance.

Always Red
04-18-2010, 03:59 PM
Fortunately left field defense doesn't matter..

Even "he whose name must not be mentioned" would have had that ball to LF last inning...

TheNext44
04-18-2010, 04:03 PM
This is your new look Reds built around pitching and defense. :p:

BTW, Rolen not playing again is just a joke. Nothing personal but who didn't see this. And to cover his 50+ missed games a year you get - a .220 hitting shortstop. Brilliance.

The Reds have planned for Rolen to play only around 120 games this year, as has everyone else. And if he does play only 120 games, he still projects to be a 3 win player.

So any production the Reds get at 3B when Rolen is not playing is a bonus. But I would be surprised if Janish plays 3B for the majority of Rolen's missed games. At some point this year, Fraizer, Valaika or Francisco will be up and be able to provide decent production when they fill in for Rolen.

Raisor
04-18-2010, 04:04 PM
The Reds have planned for Rolen to play only around 120 games this year, as has everyone else. .

do you have a link for that, or are you just assuming?

TheNext44
04-18-2010, 04:09 PM
do you have a link for that, or are you just assuming?

I am assuming that they are not idiots. Even the Royals would understand that Rolen, with his history, is only going to play around 120 games this year.

But if I really wanted to, I am sure I can find a quote from Jocketty where he says that the Reds don't expect 162 game season from Rolen, and are fine with it.

Raisor
04-18-2010, 04:13 PM
I am assuming that they are not idiots.

Sometimes that is a big assumption.

TheNext44
04-18-2010, 04:21 PM
Sometimes that is a big assumption.

A few years ago, it would be a bad assumption. Jocketty, I believe, has shown that the is not an idiot.

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 04:30 PM
Janish with a solid double down the line that scores Gomes from 1st. Paul heads to third on the throw. 5-2 Bucs.

And that ends Maholm's day.

TheNext44
04-18-2010, 04:30 PM
Janish for cleanup hitter!!!

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 04:31 PM
Micah Owings PH'ing for Bronson. Good move IMO.

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 04:35 PM
Owings K's

As good of a hitter as he is though, we simply have to get him some at bats. I'm still stunned that he didn't get any AB's during ST. Didn't make sense to me.

5-2 heading to the bottom of 7

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 04:37 PM
Hmmm...Lincoln pitching. Why not leave Micah in to pitch?

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 04:40 PM
Nice start by Lincoln. 1 pitch flyout of Young, then a 4 pitch K of McCutchen.

nate
04-18-2010, 04:40 PM
Hotrod has got that curve working again. Nice.

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 04:42 PM
Grounder to Janish. 1-2-3 from Lincoln.

Pitch efficient and solid control. But if he sends him out for another inning...Redszone will implode most likely. :O)

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 04:43 PM
Donnelly replaces Hanrahan to face the top of the order

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 04:45 PM
4 pitch walk to Stubbs. Here we go again with Donnelly.

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 04:49 PM
Votto stings one to the wall, but Milledge snags it. The Pirates have played some OUTSTANDING defense this series.

Matt700wlw
04-18-2010, 04:50 PM
Not real impressed, as a whole, with these Reds so far...

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 04:50 PM
Phillips flies out to Milledge and strands Drew at second. Remains 5-2 heading to the bottom of the 8th

CTA513
04-18-2010, 04:56 PM
2 scoreless innings from Lincoln.

:eek:

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 04:58 PM
2 PERFECT innings from Lincoln.

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 04:59 PM
Octavio Dotel in for the ninth

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 05:00 PM
Ummmm....Gomes?

He just looked at 3 straight fastballs for strikes. Ummmm...okay then.

Reds Fanatic
04-18-2010, 05:03 PM
Bruce's 2nd HR of the game. 5-3 Pirates.

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 05:03 PM
This will be the first 3 game sweep of the Reds by the Pirates since 2003

:jump: BRUUUUUUUCE! Slump buster! Dinger #2!

Hold the phone there on the sweep. :O)

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 05:04 PM
Dickerson Ph'ing for Janish

VR
04-18-2010, 05:04 PM
I'm disappointed Stubbs didn't steal in the 8th.

Good for Bruce....let's hope he's figured something out

Reds Fanatic
04-18-2010, 05:07 PM
5 game losing streak

VR
04-18-2010, 05:07 PM
What happens tomorrow?

_Sir_Charles_
04-18-2010, 05:07 PM
Strike out to finish off the sweep.

Well, if nothing else, we might see an end to all the "send Bruce to AAA" threads.

Ron Madden
04-18-2010, 05:10 PM
Well, if nothing else, we might see an end to all the "send Bruce to AAA" threads.

God I hope so.

Spring~Fields
04-18-2010, 05:14 PM
Final Cincinnati 3, Pittsburgh 5

Scoring Summary
Bot 4th: Pittsburgh
Church singled to shortstop, D. Young scored, L. Milledge to third, G. Jones to second
Crosby hit by pitch, L. Milledge scored, G. Jones to third, R. Church to second
Jaramillo doubled to deep left, G. Jones, R. Church and B. Crosby scored

Top 5th: Cincinnati
Bruce homered to right

Top 7th: Cincinnati
Janish doubled to left, J. Gomes scored, P. Janish to third advancing on throw

Top 9th: Cincinnati
Bruce homered to right

Reds Batting
2B - P Janish (2, P Maholm).
HR - J Bruce 2 (2, 5th inning off P Maholm 0 on, 0 Out, 9th inning off O Dotel 0 on, 2 Out).
RBI - J Bruce 2 (4), P Janish (3).
2-out RBI - J Bruce, P Janish.
Runners left in scoring position, 2 out - B Phillips 1, R Hanigan 1, M Owings 1.
Team LOB - 5.

Reds Fielding
E - R Hanigan (1, throw).

Pitching


Cincinnati
IP H R ER BB K HR
B. Arroyo 6.0 5 5 5 3 7 0
M. Lincoln 2.0 0 0 0 0 1 0

Pittsburgh
P. Maholm 6.2 4 2 2 1 5 1
J. Hanrahan 0.1 0 0 0 0 1 0
O. Dotel 1.0 1 1 1 0 3 1


WP: P. Maholm (1-1) S: O. Dotel (3)
LP: B. Arroyo (0-1)

HPB - B Crosby (by B Arroyo).

Pitches-strikes -
B Arroyo 107-66; M Lincoln 21-15; P Maholm 100-62; J Hanrahan 5-3; B Donnelly 14-7; O Dotel 15-13.

Ground balls-fly balls -
B Arroyo 2-9; M Lincoln 3-2; P Maholm 7-8; J Hanrahan 0-0; B Donnelly 1-2; O Dotel 0-1.

Batters faced -
B Arroyo 27; M Lincoln 6; P Maholm 26; J Hanrahan 1; B Donnelly 4; O Dotel 4.

HokieRed
04-18-2010, 05:19 PM
I hope this series ends, once for all, the snarky comments about the Pirates on RZ.

jojo
04-18-2010, 05:22 PM
Cedeno was a star for the Pirates this weekend.

traderumor
04-18-2010, 05:42 PM
I hope this series ends, once for all, the snarky comments about the Pirates on RZ.The Pirates have put a lot of hard work into the reason that they get those snarky comments. They could have just as easily lost two of three to a team playing like crap.

Since that is out of the way, it can only go up from here. Not one person on the Reds is currently meeting reasonable expectations for their performance. The starters have been pathetic, the bullpen has been spotty, at best, and I don't think everyone in the lineup is going to hit .220 all season.

Also, does a losing streak that gets past 3 games seem like an eternity between wins to anyone else?

durl
04-18-2010, 05:54 PM
Also, does a losing streak that gets past 3 games seem like an eternity between wins to anyone else?

I'm with you.

Losing 5 in a row is BAD, but when your starters give up 5 runs and your offense struggles to manage 5-6 hits, and your opponents score 2X more runs than you over the losing streak, it's PITIFUL.

I'm usually a "glass is half-full" kind of guy (especially at the beginning of the season) but this team right now, IMO, just flat-out STINKS. If they can't turn things around by April 30th, I'd fire Dusty on May 1. There's no sense is letting this continue for the sake of letting his contract run out.

nate
04-18-2010, 05:59 PM
I'm with you.

Losing 5 in a row is BAD, but when your starters give up 5 runs and your offense struggles to manage 5-6 hits, it's PITIFUL.

This is the problem with ERA. Bronson didn't give up 5 runs. He gave up 2 and Gomes gave up 3 with a bad route that led to a bases-clearing double. At the very least, the _team_ gave up those 3 runs but the starters didn't do it on their own.

Quite honestly, this game was a winnable as the other two.

TheNext44
04-18-2010, 06:27 PM
This is one problem with ERA. Bronson didn't give up 5 runs. He gave up 2 and Gomes gave up 3 with a bad route that led to a bases-clearing double. At the very least, the _team_ gave up those 3 runs but the starters didn't do it on their own.

Quite honestly, this game was a winnable as the other two.

Want to try to make a list?

nate
04-18-2010, 06:40 PM
Want to try to make a list?

Of runs allowed by pitching vs. those allowed by defense?

Might be interesting.

Razor Shines
04-18-2010, 09:00 PM
I thought we traded that Donkey because bad defense in LF was unacceptable. I guess bad defense in left is acceptable if the LFer doesn't make too much money and is mediocre at the plate.

Gomes is gawd awful out there and Cabrera isn't a good defensive SS.

TheNext44
04-18-2010, 09:02 PM
Of runs allowed by pitching vs. those allowed by defense?

Might be interesting.

Actually I was referring to all the problems with ERA, but that list sounds more interesting.

durl
04-19-2010, 12:08 AM
This is the problem with ERA. Bronson didn't give up 5 runs. He gave up 2 and Gomes gave up 3 with a bad route that led to a bases-clearing double. At the very least, the _team_ gave up those 3 runs but the starters didn't do it on their own.

Quite honestly, this game was a winnable as the other two.

Bronson walked one and hit another in that inning and both of those players scored. They reached base without having to swing the bat.

I agree with your point about Gomes; it WAS a lousy route. If the ball were hit right at Gomes and he dropped it, I'd be more inclined to put more blame on his shoulders. I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but if the pitcher puts them on base via the BB or HBP, they're ultimately responsible if those players cross the plate.

WVRedsFan
04-19-2010, 12:22 AM
I hope this series ends, once for all, the snarky comments about the Pirates on RZ.Won't happen, Hokie. They do this to us every year at the beginning of the season. And still people assume the Reds can beat them. In fact, they might finish ahead of us this year unless the offense starts clicking and the pitching improves...

jojo
04-19-2010, 12:46 AM
I hope this series ends, once for all, the snarky comments about the Pirates on RZ.

Few people care about process.

Its a new Pirates organization that doesn't have to own the better part of the last 20 years. They've just had to start rebuilding literally from the ground up-no surprise they're not world series contenders so early in the game....

_Sir_Charles_
04-19-2010, 10:10 AM
Cedeno was a star for the Pirates this weekend.

His bat was better than expected, I agree. But defensively...he was a flat out stud. Same with several other Pirates. VERY solid defensive club, IMO.

_Sir_Charles_
04-19-2010, 10:12 AM
Few people care about process.

Its a new Pirates organization that doesn't have to own the better part of the last 20 years. They've just had to start rebuilding literally from the ground up-no surprise they're not world series contenders so early in the game....

Spot on. If nothing else, they're certainly heading in the right direction for the first time in quite a while.

nate
04-19-2010, 11:26 AM
Bronson walked one and hit another in that inning and both of those players scored. They reached base without having to swing the bat.

Run prevention is a system of pitching and defense. My comment was saying that ERA does not measure pitching as evidenced clearly in this case. For example, if Gomes had caught the ball, Arroyo's ERA would be 3.60 instead of 4.95 so far. Yes, Bronson allowed the baserunners but that's all they were until Gomes misplayed a ball that I believe any other of the Reds LF options get to. Arroyo allowed the baserunners, Gomes allowed them to become runs.

Formula exist that assign fractional runs to every run scoring situation. Perhaps Gomes should be given a "runs allowed" score based on that and Bronson only charged "1-runs allowed by (defense) Gomes" in this case. However, Bronson did not "allow" those runs all by himself even though his ERA will say that he did.


I agree with your point about Gomes; it WAS a lousy route. If the ball were hit right at Gomes and he dropped it, I'd be more inclined to put more blame on his shoulders.

It was bad defense, plain and simple.


I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but if the pitcher puts them on base via the BB or HBP, they're ultimately responsible if those players cross the plate.

They're partially responsible at best. This game was one of the best examples of how futile a stat like ERA is for measuring an INDIVIDUAL's performance.