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View Full Version : Turning down high paying job. Am I crazy?



JaxRed
04-21-2010, 04:19 PM
So, my old boss moves to California from Jacksonville. She's doing same job at another school. She has been authorized to hire another person to do the job I do here.

She wants to know if I'm interested. It would pay about $40,000 more than I'm making now.

But to take it, I'd have to move from Jax (which I love), find someone to rent my home, my wife would have to quit her $32,000 job.

I'm almost 59. I plan to retire in my Jax home, and buy a second home in Goodyear and live there part time.

All in all, it just doesn't seem worth it. Am I crazy?

Boston Red
04-21-2010, 04:22 PM
What part of CA? $40k more in some parts of CA might essentially be a paycut.

JaxRed
04-21-2010, 04:24 PM
Riverside, CA

Cyclone792
04-21-2010, 04:26 PM
Jax, I don't know at what age you were planning to retire, but at 58 I'm assuming you've got to be very close.

All in all, given what you've stated about the situation, I don't think you're crazy at all for turning down the job. I'm 99 percent sure I'd do the same if I were in your shoes.

Boston Red
04-21-2010, 04:32 PM
Riverside, CA

According to Salary.com, the cost of living in Riverside, CA is only 6.9% higher than in JAX, so you would probably be okay moneywise. Not sure if Riverside is a decent place to live, though. Can't be as nice as JAX/St. Augustine!

KronoRed
04-21-2010, 04:46 PM
Doesn't seem worth it unless you really want to live in California.

Roy Tucker
04-21-2010, 05:02 PM
From an almost-58 yr. old, I don't think you're crazy. Money isn't everything.

The only reason I'd make a geographical move like that is the make the proverbial "the heck with you" money, i.e. make enough money to tell everyone to take a flying fig at a rolling doughnut. But that's got to be some serious coin to do that. I looked at moving to Santa Clara 2-3 years back and I'd needed to at least double my salary to maintain my standard of living. And that's just to stay even.

I like your plan. Stay the course.

RichRed
04-21-2010, 05:23 PM
Depending on how easy it would be for your wife to find a new job at a comparable salary, you might not even be gaining that much financially. I would personally jump at the chance to relocate to a select few locations (San Diego, for one) but I don't blame you at all for not making this move.

JaxRed
04-21-2010, 05:38 PM
I just realized I posted this in wrong forum. Sorry

RedsManRick
04-21-2010, 06:31 PM
Some things to consider:
- Is this entire compensation package worth $40,000 more or just the salary? Compare benefits and contributions.
- Do you want to work for your old boss again?
- Would your wife need to find work? Would she want to?
- How close are you to family/ how close would you be after you move?
- What would you do with the extra money? Buy stuff? Travel? Give it to the kids/grandkids? What is your financial condition in terms of retirement and would this significantly improve it?

MWM
04-21-2010, 06:45 PM
So Jacksonville is that great, huh? That's good news as I'm moving there next month. :)

westofyou
04-21-2010, 06:46 PM
SoCal... ain't worth it.

MWM
04-21-2010, 07:12 PM
SoCal... ain't worth it.

Different strokes, I guess. My wife is from San Diego and we lived there for a year and you couldn't pay me enough to return to SoCal. The weather is spectacular, but there's little else I liked about it. It's not for everyone.

westofyou
04-21-2010, 07:50 PM
Different strokes, I guess. My wife is from San Diego and we lived there for a year and you couldn't pay me enough to return to SoCal. The weather is spectacular, but there's little else I liked about it. It's not for everyone.

San Diego doesn't rate near as bad as the vortex known as the LA Basin.

oneupper
04-21-2010, 08:18 PM
Not Crazy. Right Choice. No reason to uproot yourself at this stage in your life.

SunDeck
04-21-2010, 08:44 PM
If you like where you are, you and your wife are happy in the present situation and if you would be leaving behind a social network you've built over a long period of time, then moving is the thing that sounds crazy to me.

RFS62
04-22-2010, 06:56 AM
Not crazy. Smart.

Riverside isn't LA as you know it from the movies.

Reds Nd2
04-22-2010, 08:19 AM
Moving might not be as crazy as it sounds. How safe is your current job now that the old boss is no longer around? If your job suddenly disappears, how easy will it be for you to find work, in your area of expertise, in Jacksonville?

reds1869
04-22-2010, 08:26 AM
I think you are making the right choice. I'm currently making $20,000 a year less than I was last year. I lost my job due to some bizarre events. I then started my own business doing something I love, and have never been happier. Sure, I intend to grow the business (and I already have another $15 K in contracts for next year) but if I don't I'll be pretty content anyway. Money isn't everything and at your stage of the game I would make the same decision.

Roy Tucker
04-22-2010, 08:29 AM
as an ex-father-in-law said to a young Roy, "find your passion and money will follow".

JaxRed
04-22-2010, 08:37 AM
Job here is ultra-safe. I will want to punch out sooner than they want me to leave.

Thanks for answers folks. I feel better about my decision.

jojo
04-22-2010, 08:47 AM
SoCal... ain't worth it.

SoCal? It would be a dilemma at $400K more...

15fan
04-22-2010, 09:44 AM
Job here is ultra-safe. I will want to punch out sooner than they want me to leave.

Thanks for answers folks. I feel better about my decision.

Any chance you can leverage the CA offer into a better deal at your current employer?

Keep in mind "better deal" can mean a lot of other things besides money.

JaxRed
04-22-2010, 10:24 AM
Probably not. Long story. When you work for a State University, there's good and bad associated with it. (mostly good). We're dependent on state budget which is very tight. No raises for last 2 or 3 years. (bad), but I've been here long enough that they need to give me a years notice before they can lay me off (good).

The big boss (here) is practically begging me for an assurance that I will stay till Dec 2012. But he didn't care enough to back me on a recent power struggle.

Sometimes you just get the feeling it's time to move on. I've been in this job 11 years.

So, in 9 months I can withdraw IRA funds and pay off house, which gives me a lot more flexbility. I'm a retired military officer and wife will still be working and house will be paid off.

I have a relatively specialized "skill" in my job that I think I can supplement my income doing. (for example doing some remote work for that site in Cali). So I would be semi-retired.

TRF
04-22-2010, 11:07 AM
Probably not. Long story. When you work for a State University, there's good and bad associated with it. (mostly good). We're dependent on state budget which is very tight. No raises for last 2 or 3 years. (bad), but I've been here long enough that they need to give me a years notice before they can lay me off (good).

The big boss (here) is practically begging me for an assurance that I will stay till Dec 2012. But he didn't care enough to back me on a recent power struggle.

Sometimes you just get the feeling it's time to move on. I've been in this job 11 years.

So, in 9 months I can withdraw IRA funds and pay off house, which gives me a lot more flexbility. I'm a retired military officer and wife will still be working and house will be paid off.

I have a relatively specialized "skill" in my job that I think I can supplement my income doing. (for example doing some remote work for that site in Cali). So I would be semi-retired.

Jax, i'm in a similar situation work wise. 10 years at a community college, also dependent on state funding. TX hasn't really felt the economy in the crapper the way Florida has, so we've gotten our raises. My retirement is much further down the road, but I've considered retiring now, paying off the house with one of my retirement funds and then doing freelance work. And I'm still looking at starting my own restaurant.

But the truth is, if you like the work, like where you live and like the people around you, 40K isn't enough of an incentive to leave that.

RBA
04-22-2010, 11:27 AM
The Riverside area/Riverside County has been hit hard by the economic downturn. A lot of lower middle income families moved from LA/Orange Coutny to Riverside County for nice new tract housing springing up during the real estate boom to escape from the crime/gangs. Many took the risky loans and as the housing and job market collasped those people are now hurting. Also a lot of the crime/gangs these families were trying to escape from in LA/Orange County actually came with them.

But there are nice pockets to live in the county. You probably could get a nice deal on a house.

Rojo
04-22-2010, 01:29 PM
I like parts of LA, which is a weird thing for a San Franciscan to say. But I like the parts that everyone knows -- Westwood, Santa Monica, etc... The deserty sprawl of LA is my least favorite part of the state and maybe the US (it vies with Texas). You couldn't pay me enough to live there.

And the unemployment is BAD. If you're wife doesn't get a job and you're looking at a 7% higher cost of living -- the raise is wiped out. I don't know what you're wife does but I think you should envision her not getting a job for year and then make your decision.

Also, if you move to California, don't say "Cali". Nobody from California says that.

MasonBuzz3
04-22-2010, 01:30 PM
not crazy at all....Riverside is hardly the "SoCal" that many think of, it's way out in the Inland Empire. If you're happy in FL, then I would say that you made the right choice

flyer85
04-22-2010, 01:41 PM
not everything is about money, your decision just reflects that.

BCubb2003
04-22-2010, 03:34 PM
You'd have to change your name to SoCalRed, so there's that ...

TRF
04-22-2010, 03:40 PM
The deserty sprawl of LA is my least favorite part of the state and maybe the US (it vies with Texas). You couldn't pay me enough to live there.

Hey!

Parts of Texas are actually quite nice.

Hoosier Red
04-22-2010, 03:51 PM
Hey!

Parts of Texas are actually quite nice.

Yeah it's a big state, you can't see TRF from everywhere.
;)

TRF
04-22-2010, 03:53 PM
Yeah it's a big state, you can't see TRF from everywhere.
;)

yeah!


wait...


Hey!

Rojo
04-22-2010, 03:56 PM
Parts of Texas are actually quite nice.

So I'm told.

westofyou
04-22-2010, 03:58 PM
Also, if you move to California, don't say "Cali". Nobody from California says that.

That's the truth!

TRF
04-22-2010, 05:03 PM
So I'm told.

East of Dallas is pretty. Lots of trees.

Razor Shines
04-23-2010, 04:59 AM
So I'm told.

Austin's a great city, so is San Antonio.

TRF
04-23-2010, 02:56 PM
Austin's a great city, so is San Antonio.

Parts of the Metroplex are nice. some, not so nice. Houston is a toilet though.

And don't get me started on the desolate wasteland that is the Texas Panhandle.

pedro
04-23-2010, 10:03 PM
Also, if you move to California, don't say "Cali". Nobody from California says that.

No kidding. I had to explain to some people last weekend that saying "cali" was a complete "tell" that you weren't from there.

Tony Cloninger
04-23-2010, 11:57 PM
Riverside is not LA....at all. It is almost a barren wasteland to me and it's almost like you really are not in California at all...more like ...Neveda.

RFS62
04-24-2010, 09:15 AM
Riverside is not LA....at all. It is almost a barren wasteland to me and it's almost like you really are not in California at all...more like ...Neveda.


Yep

Reds4Life
04-24-2010, 04:38 PM
Personally, I think you are making the right choice. At this stage of your career, and being close to retirement, it's simply not worth it, IMO. Having to uproot your family for 5 years or so isn't worth the hassle it would bring, especially if you plan to retire in Jacksonville anyway.

Yachtzee
04-24-2010, 08:31 PM
Also, if you move to California, don't say "Cali". Nobody from California says that.

Unless you're L.L. Cool J.

pedro
04-24-2010, 09:02 PM
Unless you're L.L. Cool J.

He's from Queens, NY.

Yachtzee
04-25-2010, 01:55 AM
He's from Queens, NY.

Fair enough. Of course he also recorded the song before the whole SoCal/NoCal thing took off. And how many people really are "from California?" :)

pedro
04-25-2010, 03:39 AM
Fair enough. Of course he also recorded the song before the whole SoCal/NoCal thing took off. And how many people really are "from California?" :)

There's always been a split in how Californian's view themselves. The N/S thing has been going on since at least the late 50's. One of the big factors is that there is almost nothing for almost 300 miles between the Bay Area and Los Angeles. (with the notable exception of a large part of California's Central Valley... which while representing only 1% of farmland in the U.S. produces 8% of our agricultural output). Another factor is that Southern California is way more conservative than Northern California, even with the "Hollywood" influence.

As for native Californian's you'd be surprised. There are 38 million people there and my guess is at least 2/3 of them are from there. I used to live there and still go there for work/pleasure 8-10 times a year and I encounter as many people from there as any place I've ever been. The thing is, in my experience native Californian's rarely move to other states. I don't know the hard statistics but I bet California is in the top 5 states in retaining residency of people that are born there.

Yachtzee
04-25-2010, 04:49 PM
There's always been a split in how Californian's view themselves. The N/S thing has been going on since at least the late 50's. One of the big factors is that there is almost nothing for almost 300 miles between the Bay Area and Los Angeles. (with the notable exception of a large part of California's Central Valley... which while representing only 1% of farmland in the U.S. produces 8% of our agricultural output). Another factor is that Southern California is way more conservative than Northern California, even with the "Hollywood" influence.

As for native Californian's you'd be surprised. There are 38 million people there and my guess is at least 2/3 of them are from there. I used to live there and still go there for work/pleasure 8-10 times a year and I encounter as many people from there as any place I've ever been. The thing is, in my experience native Californian's rarely move to other states. I don't know the hard statistics but I bet California is in the top 5 states in retaining residency of people that are born there.

I was just kidding about most Californians not being from there, but I do know a lot of people who have moved there for one reason or another. They seem to be the more annoying than lifelong residents because they always want to talk about how much better CA is than wherever they moved from.

As far as the SoCal/NoCal thing, I was speaking more in how hipsters reference it. I don't remember hearing "SoCal" until hearing it on Jim Rome in the late '90s.

BigRed75
04-26-2010, 05:31 PM
Florida = No state and local taxes
California = TAXES, TAXES AND MORE TAXES

Yachtzee
04-26-2010, 08:51 PM
Florida = No state and local taxes
California = TAXES, TAXES AND MORE TAXES

Income taxes you mean, right? Florida has to get their money from somewhere. Sales tax is the likely alternative.

Reds4Life
04-26-2010, 08:54 PM
Income taxes you mean, right? Florida has to get their money from somewhere. Sales tax is the likely alternative.

Property taxes are also pretty high in many parts of FL, but I assume they are probably worse in California.

Yachtzee
04-26-2010, 09:29 PM
Property taxes are also pretty high in many parts of FL, but I assume they are probably worse in California.

Yeah, I can't speak for CA taxes compared to FL. My experience with living in Ohio is that people complain about having state and local income taxes and "high" property taxes, but when you factor in things like the relative affordability of real estate here, middle of the pack sales tax, utility rates, ample access to fresh water (thank you, snow), and lower general cost of living, it's really quite affordable to live here and the taxes aren't necessarily overly burdensome. I can't see why anyone would want to move to CA unless the job paid at least double what one would be making here. If it were a job you could do here, where $145,000 a nice 4 br/2 bath house in a decent neighborhood, as opposed to SoCal, where you may find yourself paying $600,000 for a 2 br townhouse, why deal with SoCal, especially if you don't have any family or friends there?

pedro
04-27-2010, 01:39 AM
Yeah, I can't speak for CA taxes compared to FL. My experience with living in Ohio is that people complain about having state and local income taxes and "high" property taxes, but when you factor in things like the relative affordability of real estate here, middle of the pack sales tax, utility rates, ample access to fresh water (thank you, snow), and lower general cost of living, it's really quite affordable to live here and the taxes aren't necessarily overly burdensome. I can't see why anyone would want to move to CA unless the job paid at least double what one would be making here. If it were a job you could do here, where $145,000 a nice 4 br/2 bath house in a decent neighborhood, as opposed to SoCal, where you may find yourself paying $600,000 for a 2 br townhouse, why deal with SoCal, especially if you don't have any family or friends there?

It really just depends on what you want from life. I don't particularly like southern California but I could see myself living in the Bay Area very easily, even though I could probably never afford to own a house there.

fearofpopvol1
04-27-2010, 04:14 AM
Can you negotiate for more than $40K? Or is $40K the max? And will they pay for moving expenses? If so, I think I would do it. Moving might be a great experience, even if it's short-term. You can always go back. Money is not everything though and that rings true for me in the field I work in as it doesn't pay all that great.

Anyhow, I was forced to move from Indianapolis to NYC for work (I say forced but I wasn't actually forced) and the experience has been priceless. One I wouldn't trade for anything in the world and I've been in NYC for a little over 4 years now. Granted, NYC is different than Riverside and I'm also younger than you are with fewer commitments and responsibilities, but you might like the new experience because I can guarantee you it will be different than Jax. And it sounds like it's a net positive financially, especially if it's only for a few years. That extra money could go a long way for your retirement potentially.

Dom Heffner
04-27-2010, 08:02 AM
Florida = No state and local taxes
California = TAXES, TAXES AND MORE TAXES

But our property taxes are ludicrous here in Florida.

They may be that way in California, but people in Ohio don't pay 3 or 4 thousand dollars a year- at least I don't think they do.

TRF
04-27-2010, 09:48 AM
Texas. No state income tax. low property taxes.

and room to grow. We even have beaches.

oneupper
04-27-2010, 09:54 AM
But our property taxes are ludicrous here in Florida.

They may be that way in California, but people in Ohio don't pay 3 or 4 thousand dollars a year- at least I don't think they do.

Insurance is nuts, too! Damn Hurricanes!

westofyou
04-27-2010, 10:03 AM
But our property taxes are ludicrous here in Florida.

They may be that way in California, but people in Ohio don't pay 3 or 4 thousand dollars a year- at least I don't think they do.

I wish my property taxes were 3-4 k a year.

edabbs44
04-27-2010, 10:49 AM
But our property taxes are ludicrous here in Florida.

They may be that way in California, but people in Ohio don't pay 3 or 4 thousand dollars a year- at least I don't think they do.

I would kill to pay 3-4k in taxes.

TRF
04-27-2010, 11:08 AM
I would kill to pay 3-4k in taxes.

$1200

But I have a small 1400 square foot house.

pedro
04-27-2010, 11:09 AM
My property taxes were around $3200 on a 1200 square foot house.

IIRC, I paid a lot more in Georgia.

JaxRed
04-27-2010, 11:46 AM
Thanks for all the feedback guys. I really feel I've made the right call to turn down the offer. I wouldn't want to go unless it was just crazy to turn it down, and it's just not.

Not with me thinking about retirement, and the house I own here, and the wife having to find new job.

And I love it here. And yes the no income tax is great, even if I pay it in other ways ($2750 property tax on 1800 SF house) and 6% general sales tax.

So, my plan is to pursue consulting with the Cal school and others around here as a way to supplement the income, and ease my way into retirement.

pedro
04-27-2010, 11:49 AM
I think you made the right decision Jax. Liking where you live is very important, no matter where that is, be it Ohio, Florida, Texas, California, Oregon or elsewhere.

TRF
04-27-2010, 12:25 PM
I think its a sound decision. I think moving would have hurt your bottom line financially, as well as emotionally.

And at our ages, who wants to make new friends anyway?

Nugget
04-27-2010, 03:10 PM
The only benefit would be that its closer to Goodyear. There are many parts of CA which are basically straight out of suburban hell.

edabbs44
04-27-2010, 08:08 PM
$1200

But I have a small 1400 square foot house.

My house is smaller than yours and I pay $8200, or something like that. I lost count.

Just wait until I double the size in the next year or two. That's when things will get fun.

TRF
04-28-2010, 10:02 AM
My house is smaller than yours and I pay $8200, or something like that. I lost count.

Just wait until I double the size in the next year or two. That's when things will get fun.

8200 in taxes? i don't pay that much for taxes and insurance! About $2800 total.

Of course my house is a piece of crap....

JaxRed
04-28-2010, 11:00 AM
Edabbs44...... I just checked Google maps to confirm...... but it appears there are a ton of roads that lead out of New Jersey....... :)

kpresidente
04-28-2010, 11:49 AM
Sorry, but I think you're crazy.

You should ask yourself whether you're letting the pain in the butt of uprooting overshadow the long-term benefits or the higher salary.

Run the numbers. You say you're, what, 58? Are you going to retire at 65? That means you'd make almost $300,000 more if you make the move. Suppose you save all that, that's going to improve the lifestyle you live during your retirement significantly.

How many golf club memberships does that buy? How many travels around the world? How many other fantastic experiences could you be missing out on? And why? So you don't have to learn some new streets?

I don't know. I'm only 30, so maybe the thought of change doesn't bother me as much. But looking at the cost/benefit, I don't know how you could stay.

pedro
04-28-2010, 11:57 AM
Sorry, but I think you're crazy.

You should ask yourself whether you're letting the pain in the butt of uprooting overshadow the long-term benefits or the higher salary.

Run the numbers. You say you're, what, 58? Are you going to retire at 65? That means you'd make almost $300,000 more if you make the move. Suppose you save all that, that's going to improve the lifestyle you live during your retirement significantly.

How many golf club memberships does that buy? How many travels around the world? How many other fantastic experiences could you be missing out on? And why? So you don't have to learn some new streets?

I don't know. I'm only 30, so maybe the thought of change doesn't bother me as much. But looking at the cost/benefit, I don't know how you could stay.

You're not factoring in taxes (assuming Jaz was talking about a $40,000 gross raise, not net), the fact that his wife would have to leave her job, the cost of moving, the higher cost of real estate or the fact that Riverside, California is not very nice (and I like California a lot). I highly doubt the upside is anywhere near $300,000.

Plus by the time you are 58 my guess is that if you really like it where you live you probably wouldn't want to leave either.

pedro
04-28-2010, 12:00 PM
"Crazy" to me is getting offered an extra $100,000 a year to live in the San Francisco Bay Area with a full allowance for housing and not wanting to go.

And even then some things are just more important than money.

This? not so much.

TRF
04-28-2010, 12:48 PM
Sorry, but I think you're crazy.

You should ask yourself whether you're letting the pain in the butt of uprooting overshadow the long-term benefits or the higher salary.

Run the numbers. You say you're, what, 58? Are you going to retire at 65? That means you'd make almost $300,000 more if you make the move. Suppose you save all that, that's going to improve the lifestyle you live during your retirement significantly.

How many golf club memberships does that buy? How many travels around the world? How many other fantastic experiences could you be missing out on? And why? So you don't have to learn some new streets?

I don't know. I'm only 30, so maybe the thought of change doesn't bother me as much. But looking at the cost/benefit, I don't know how you could stay.

taxes, cost of living, relocation at that age, uprooting from friends and family, and in the end, factoring all that in, it might be a wash financially at best.

He made the right decision.

Actually, housing is probably comparable, but taxes, including california's state income tax?

pass.

edabbs44
04-28-2010, 01:02 PM
Edabbs44...... I just checked Google maps to confirm...... but it appears there are a ton of roads that lead out of New Jersey....... :)

Yeah, but in my industry the NE is where you have to be (for the most part). My family and wife's family are all here. It wouldn't be easy to uproot and move.

JaxRed
04-28-2010, 01:19 PM
I was just messin' with ya ......

pedro
04-28-2010, 01:20 PM
Yeah, but in my industry the NE is where you have to be (for the most part). My family and wife's family are all here. It wouldn't be easy to uproot and move.

Plus depending on where you live NJ can be REALLY nice.

I graduated high school in Summit, NJ.

RBA
04-28-2010, 01:40 PM
JAX,

I'll take the job. Where do you want my resume sent. ;)

JaxRed
04-28-2010, 02:00 PM
You couldn't afford the paycut RBA...... :)

RBA
04-28-2010, 02:16 PM
You couldn't afford the paycut RBA...... :)

I wish that was true. ;) The military doesn't want me anymore. :(

edabbs44
04-28-2010, 02:23 PM
I was just messin' with ya ......

I know that...NJ is in my blood. But I'm not a huge Springsteen fan.

edabbs44
04-28-2010, 02:25 PM
Plus depending on where you live NJ can be REALLY nice.

I graduated high school in Summit, NJ.

Summit is a really nice area. I live in northern Bergen County. Just insanely expensive.

defender
04-28-2010, 02:49 PM
CA also has sales tax of about 9% (it varies by county).

BuckeyeRed27
04-28-2010, 02:56 PM
I only live about 60 miles from Riverside and I don't think I would take a 40k raise to move there.


Good choice.

RBA
04-28-2010, 03:39 PM
I only live about 60 miles from Riverside and I don't think I would take a 40k raise to move there.


Good choice.


I had an Aunt/Counsins that use to live on Strand St. Do you live close to there.

pedro
04-28-2010, 04:12 PM
Summit is a really nice area. I live in northern Bergen County. Just insanely expensive.

I like Ridgewood quite a lot. It sure ain't cheap though.

BuckeyeRed27
04-28-2010, 04:18 PM
I had an Aunt/Counsins that use to live on Strand St. Do you live close to there.

Fairly. I actually live in Marina del Rey now, but it's only a few miles.

edabbs44
04-28-2010, 05:47 PM
I like Ridgewood quite a lot. It sure ain't cheap though.

I am 5 min from Ridgewood. Can be a little snooty but a very nice town. Great downtown area.

JaxRed
08-06-2013, 03:53 PM
It's been more than 3 years so I thought I might bump this for an update. At the time I was 58 (and 3/4), had just got the boss from hell, which is why I was thinking of moving on from my old job, even if I didn't take the new one.

I mentioned that I might pay off the house with my IRA's when I hit 59 1/2 and might buy a house in Goodyear.

So what went down was this: Boss in Cali lost her ability to hire someone so she made me an offer of consulting at $75 an hour. My current job would pay me $30 an hour for 20 hours per week. So I punched out 3 months after writing this. (June 2010).

My $75 an hour gig only lasted till Sep when she finally got permission to hire someone and did. My $30 an hour gig lasted about 20 months until Feb 2012. However fate was kind and I picked up another $30 an hour consulting job at that point and I'm still doing it today. I usually only work 10-15 hours, but that is my choice.

I did pay off the house which meant my military retirement could be used as pay and not go strictly to house payments. I also grabbed enough money out of IRA's to make down payments on 2 Arizona houses. (turned out to be Avondale, not Goodyear....other side of the ballpark). They have been rented continously ever since we bought them.

So, between the consulting, my retired pay, my wife's pay and the rental income, I've survived and treaded water financially for the last 3 years. I hit 62 in June and in 15 days I get my first Social Security check. I plan to keep on doing the current level of consulting for the forseebale future. In fact my big boss at the College, who did not back me when there was a power struggle, has gone to another position and I'm now doing consulting for him at that job. (I have a unique skill set involving a particular software package)

In hindsight, I was correct to turn down Riverside, probably should have put up with the boss from hell for a longer period of time. I'm glad I bought the houses. Working part time though has let me keep my sanity. I was getting kind of burned out.

I always felt if I could just make it to 62 without having no consulting income I'd be ok, since my Social Security is about equal to my consulting. I made it, and now the consulting money will be "extra" to improve things.

dougdirt
08-06-2013, 04:00 PM
Yes, you are crazy. But that isn't a bad thing.

medford
08-07-2013, 03:15 PM
thanks for the update, never saw the original post, but happy to see the outcome some 3 years later.

If you don't mind me asking, w/ the house paid for (I assume the rental properites as well?) what are your monthly living expenses? What are the things you find yourself paying for in retirement that you didn't think about 20-30 years ago? I've often wondered myself just how much I'll need for retirement.

I've read alot about something I think is called the theory of 20 or something along those lines, where basically you take your yearly living expenses, multiple it by 20 and that is how much you need in retirement. You take out 5% each year, and even if you started your retirement in the worst time frame for the S&P (It was the early 70s at the time I believe where it took a sharp dive over 2 years) you still ended up growing your portfolio showing that traditional returns, even if you pick the wrong year to start should get you thru assuming you can start limit your self to a 5% withdrawl each year (the historical return would outpace inflation so each year you'd take out a little more money in theory than the year before to overcome the rise in cost)

I'm currently on "pace" to have a little over 1 mil in my 401(k) when I hit 60. I've got a small personal account outside of that that I hope to continue contributing to again some day, plus we'll have my wife's retirement from STRS (teacher's retirement plan). Throw on Social Security (if its still there) as well. The 5% would be 50k a year, plus 5% of whatever my personal accounts are at the time, plus the SS and my wife's pension plan (there are so many changes I haven't even bothered to begin worrying about what that will be yearly at this point). All told, $75 to $100k a year, I'd hope to have my house paid off at that point, perhaps even a retirement getaway somewhere. Inflation will eat into that number from today; I think that would all be enough, we live fairly simple, probably wouldn't start getting all extravagent in retirement.

vaticanplum
08-07-2013, 03:16 PM
Plus depending on where you live NJ can be REALLY nice.

I graduated high school in Summit, NJ.

I used to live in Madison! it's a small world. And a small state.

remdog
08-07-2013, 03:48 PM
Also, if you move to California, don't say "Cali". Nobody from California says that.

That's very true. Nothing will get a 'back', up as much as that when someone says 'Cali'.

It shows that you don't hail from there, have no respect for the state or the people that live and work there or that you are somehow thinking that you're 'cool'.

After all, Cali is a city in Columbia.



PS: Is this at UC Riverside? The City of Riverside is actually pretty nice but it's a drive to get to the ocean/beach. And it gets hot in the summertime.

Any chance you can get the employer to fly you and the wife out there for a few days to look over the area/

I've been stuck in Cleveland with some health issues and, I have to tell you that, other than housing costs, the cost of living in in SoCal is cheaper than Cleveland. The roads are good, thereby eliminating things like broken springs (suffered the first day I had my car in Ohio, costing $1700.00 to repair, fresh fruits and veggies, as well as steak and other meats, all year long at cheaper rates than Ohio, courtesy of the 'Central Valley and Mexico and South America, low heating costs in winter. Of course, the cost of wine is lower. No need for a 'winter wardrobe', and, of course, great weather.

Rem

medford
08-07-2013, 04:18 PM
I don't think the socal thing is an option at this point.

JaxRed
08-08-2013, 02:09 PM
thanks for the update, never saw the original post, but happy to see the outcome some 3 years later.

If you don't mind me asking, w/ the house paid for (I assume the rental properites as well?) what are your monthly living expenses? What are the things you find yourself paying for in retirement that you didn't think about 20-30 years ago? I've often wondered myself just how much I'll need for retirement.

I've read alot about something I think is called the theory of 20 or something along those lines, where basically you take your yearly living expenses, multiple it by 20 and that is how much you need in retirement. You take out 5% each year, and even if you started your retirement in the worst time frame for the S&P (It was the early 70s at the time I believe where it took a sharp dive over 2 years) you still ended up growing your portfolio showing that traditional returns, even if you pick the wrong year to start should get you thru assuming you can start limit your self to a 5% withdrawl each year (the historical return would outpace inflation so each year you'd take out a little more money in theory than the year before to overcome the rise in cost)

I'm currently on "pace" to have a little over 1 mil in my 401(k) when I hit 60. I've got a small personal account outside of that that I hope to continue contributing to again some day, plus we'll have my wife's retirement from STRS (teacher's retirement plan). Throw on Social Security (if its still there) as well. The 5% would be 50k a year, plus 5% of whatever my personal accounts are at the time, plus the SS and my wife's pension plan (there are so many changes I haven't even bothered to begin worrying about what that will be yearly at this point). All told, $75 to $100k a year, I'd hope to have my house paid off at that point, perhaps even a retirement getaway somewhere. Inflation will eat into that number from today; I think that would all be enough, we live fairly simple, probably wouldn't start getting all extravagent in retirement.

You're going to be far ahead of me if you are going to have a million. I am withdrawing from my retirement accounts, but I am not withdrawing any principal. If you recall from my retirement threads, I am a believer in Dividend Growth Investing. Not just at the end.... the whole way. So right now I am in the distribution (retirement) phase, so I am withdrawing 75% of my dividend income and reinvesting the rest. Only been in that phase for 2 months.

I am not retired enough to have lowered spending. My wife still works full time and I'm working part time. Nothing has changed. And other than the fact that I have a very big car payment that will someday end, I'm not sure I expect a big reduction.

medford
08-08-2013, 02:27 PM
thanks, I've followed your dividend investing thing closely, you've inspired me that someday, whenever I get back to investing money in my personal accoutns again, not just my 401(k) (we get a very generous offer, 50% matching up to whatever we put in, so my savings is obviously concentrated there, and will eventually increase up to 15% of my paycheck once kids are out of day care, then I'll contribute to my personal accounts again, impossible to beat a 50% automatic retun)

anyways, most things I've read is not to expect a drop in your spending as you retire (perhaps as you age, but the goal for most people is to retire in relative good health that they can still get out and around) with the possible expection of a mortgage, most places will tell you to aim to have that paid off by retirement. I guess what I was wondering, were there expenses you see now that you never anticipated? Perhaps medical insurance or something? You may get that thru your wife's employer. What I'll equate it to, is people talk about having a baby a few years down the road, talk about the cost of diapers, baby food, etc... but the thing that rarely gets talked about is the cost of daycare. I don't think most people realize they'll be spending 600-1200 a month on their child's day care if they continue working full time. Didn't know if there was something equivalent to that in retirement that I haven't thought about.

Thanks for everything you share in this regard, its helpful to read about someone else's experience so that I can prepare for my own.

Cyclone792
08-08-2013, 02:50 PM
thanks for the update, never saw the original post, but happy to see the outcome some 3 years later.

If you don't mind me asking, w/ the house paid for (I assume the rental properites as well?) what are your monthly living expenses? What are the things you find yourself paying for in retirement that you didn't think about 20-30 years ago? I've often wondered myself just how much I'll need for retirement.

I've read alot about something I think is called the theory of 20 or something along those lines, where basically you take your yearly living expenses, multiple it by 20 and that is how much you need in retirement. You take out 5% each year, and even if you started your retirement in the worst time frame for the S&P (It was the early 70s at the time I believe where it took a sharp dive over 2 years) you still ended up growing your portfolio showing that traditional returns, even if you pick the wrong year to start should get you thru assuming you can start limit your self to a 5% withdrawl each year (the historical return would outpace inflation so each year you'd take out a little more money in theory than the year before to overcome the rise in cost)

I'm currently on "pace" to have a little over 1 mil in my 401(k) when I hit 60. I've got a small personal account outside of that that I hope to continue contributing to again some day, plus we'll have my wife's retirement from STRS (teacher's retirement plan). Throw on Social Security (if its still there) as well. The 5% would be 50k a year, plus 5% of whatever my personal accounts are at the time, plus the SS and my wife's pension plan (there are so many changes I haven't even bothered to begin worrying about what that will be yearly at this point). All told, $75 to $100k a year, I'd hope to have my house paid off at that point, perhaps even a retirement getaway somewhere. Inflation will eat into that number from today; I think that would all be enough, we live fairly simple, probably wouldn't start getting all extravagent in retirement.

I think you're on the right track. Check out FIRECalc: http://www.firecalc.com/

I've always believed that 20 times annual expenses is a bit low though, and a 5 percent withdrawal might be a bit high. A safer number to use, assuming a retirement around your late 50s, would be 30 times annual expenses. If you want to retire early around 50, you might want to aim for 35 or 40 times annual expenses. For safe withdrawal rates, maybe think about 3 percent.

That much said, adjust for Social Security, even if it's a conservative adjustment of receiving only 50-70 percent of your projected benefits. It'll be there in some manner, maybe not as much as we're promised now (I'm 31 years old, for example), but some of it will be around. If you project your Social Security to cover 30 percent of your living expenses, for example, then you'll only need retirement funds to cover the remaining 70 percent. Use that remaining annual number to multiply by 30 with.

I've also used a future inflation calculator to try to adjust today's money ahead 25 years or so. A ballpark calculation I simply use is doubling today's money - in other words, if I want $1 million in today's money then I need to actually save $2 million by 2038.

By the way, my fiance is in STRS Ohio too. Their recent changes were probably necessary to make sure the fund stays healthy, but for her age group (20 and 30-somethings) they took a haircut if they want to retire early before age 60. My response to that is I've now got her maxing out a Roth IRA in addition to STRS so 1) worst case is she has a safety valve if STRS implodes, and 2) best case is she has an early retirement option if STRS stays healthy.

Cyclone792
08-08-2013, 02:54 PM
anyways, most things I've read is not to expect a drop in your spending as you retire (perhaps as you age, but the goal for most people is to retire in relative good health that they can still get out and around) with the possible expection of a mortgage, most places will tell you to aim to have that paid off by retirement. I guess what I was wondering, were there expenses you see now that you never anticipated? Perhaps medical insurance or something? You may get that thru your wife's employer. What I'll equate it to, is people talk about having a baby a few years down the road, talk about the cost of diapers, baby food, etc... but the thing that rarely gets talked about is the cost of daycare. I don't think most people realize they'll be spending 600-1200 a month on their child's day care if they continue working full time. Didn't know if there was something equivalent to that in retirement that I haven't thought about.

Thanks for everything you share in this regard, its helpful to read about someone else's experience so that I can prepare for my own.

Health insurance is the major wildcard. My parents have friends who just retired and did some research, and they're estimating $800 per person, per month for health insurance. That might be on the high end, but either way it's expensive. Who knows what it'll be in the future. Trying to project health insurance 20 to 30 years in the future is the most difficult thing I've run into.

JaxRed
08-08-2013, 02:55 PM
At this point, nothing has changed between my semi-retirement expenses and my normal expenses. But I am constantly trying to think of ways I can lower my expenses. My phone (cell and home) are minimal ($15 a month combined), but I have not yet "cut cable" but it's crossing my mind.

By the way, both Arizona home are mortgaged. Pay $500 a month, rent for $950. So paying them off down the road sometime will result in a nice "raise". Both mortgages are just below $70K each.