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kheidg-
04-23-2010, 12:08 AM
Didn't see this posted or discussed anywhere. Saw this article on Yahoo! regarding Arod crossing over the pitchers mound while retreating to first from third base. It appears that he crossed over the pitchers mound and stepped on the rubber. Oakland pitcher Dallas Braden was having none of it.

Arod certainly seems to know very little about unwritten baseball rules and etiquette. If I'm not mistaken he was in some sort of similar situation last year while running down the baseline.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Dallas-Braden-blasts-A-Rod-for-breaking-unwritte?urn=mlb,236110

Here a couple notable quotes from him


Said Braden:

"He should probably take a note from his captain over there and realize you don't cross the pitcher's mound in between an inning or during the game. I was just dumbfounded that he would let that slip his mind being someone of such status."

"I don't care if I'm Cy Young or the 25th man on the roster, if I've got the ball in my hand and I'm on that mound, that's my mound ... He ran across the pitcher's mound foot on my rubber. No, not happening. We're not the door mat anymore."

BrooklynRedz
04-23-2010, 12:12 AM
I sat in the office watching this go down. I have no better understanding of his complaint than when I watched it happen with the sound down on the tv.

Should the batter be equally protective of the plate? Or every base?

I get baseball etiquette (or most/some of it), I think. This one, I don't get. At all.

TheNext44
04-23-2010, 12:13 AM
Didn't see this posted or discussed anywhere. Saw this article on Yahoo! regarding Arod crossing over the pitchers mound while retreating to first from third base. It appears that he crossed over the pitchers mound and stepped on the rubber. Oakland pitcher Dallas Braden was having none of it.

Arod certainly seems to know very little about unwritten baseball rules and etiquette. If I'm not mistaken he was in some sort of similar situation last year while running down the baseline.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Dallas-Braden-blasts-A-Rod-for-breaking-unwritte?urn=mlb,236110

Here a couple notable quotes from him

I was listening to the Yankee broadcast of that game when it happened and the announcers couldn't figure out why Braden was so mad, but they described him as furiously screaming at A-Rod and following him almost all the way to the Yankee dugout, screaming at the top of his lungs the whole way.

I have never heard of that rule, but I also have never seen a player walk over the mound when the opposing team had the field, let alone step on the rubber itself. Even if I didn't know about that rule, I would never do something so rude.


Glad to see A-Rod get shouted down.

TheNext44
04-23-2010, 12:15 AM
I sat in the office watching this go down. I have no better understanding of his complaint than when I watched it happen with the sound down on the tv.

Should the batter be equally protective of the plate? Or every base?

I get baseball etiquette (or most/some of it), I think. This one, I don't get. At all.

Runners and batters have a right to bases and the plate. There is no reason for a runner to every go near the mound. Also, pitchers spend a good deal of time and energy getting the mound, especially the area around the rubber, exactly how they like it. They don't want others messing that up.

BrooklynRedz
04-23-2010, 12:56 AM
Runners and batters have a right to bases and the plate. There is no reason for a runner to every go near the mound. Also, pitchers spend a good deal of time and energy getting the mound, especially the area around the rubber, exactly how they like it. They don't want others messing that up.

So a batter has territorial rights over the batters box and should freak out when a pitcher dares mess with his dirt while covering the plate? It's not like ARod stopped and disturbed the dude's dirt pile. C'mon. We complain about the Yanks' dawdling when someone (rightly so) points out the uneven length it takes them (and the Sox) to play a game. Then when a guy makes a straight line off the field, we want to give air to something so petty as this? Baseball isn't golf. You don't get to act like a jerk when someone steps on your putting line.

Brutus
04-23-2010, 01:19 AM
This is the dumbest unwritten rule I've ever heard of. Seriously? Flipping out over a runner crossing the mound? Sorry, I don't see the big deal.

I get the ones about showing pitchers up on homers, etc. This one I don't see at all.

Tom Servo
04-23-2010, 01:25 AM
http://blog.mlive.com/projectmayhem/2009/01/large_Clint-Eastwood-453.jpg

Will M
04-23-2010, 01:53 AM
if something this simple makes the pitcher completely lose it opposing players should do it as often as they can.

Brutus
04-23-2010, 02:00 AM
if something this simple makes the pitcher completely lose it opposing players should do it as often as they can.

I dig your rebellious attitude.

That Alex Rodriguez got Dallas Braden that riled, unintentionally or otherwise, could have played into the Yankees' favor. Unfortunately the likely welt he's going to have on his buttock the next time the two clubs meet may not be worth the price he paid to do so.

TheNext44
04-23-2010, 02:33 AM
if something this simple makes the pitcher completely lose it opposing players should do it as often as they can.

Only it didn't rile him at all. He went on to get a key double play after that incident.

TheNext44
04-23-2010, 02:43 AM
This is the dumbest unwritten rule I've ever heard of. Seriously? Flipping out over a runner crossing the mound? Sorry, I don't see the big deal.

I get the ones about showing pitchers up on homers, etc. This one I don't see at all.

Actually, what Braden was mad about was that A-Rod ran over the rubber. It wasn't the mound that got Braden upset, that happens every now and then. It was that A-Rod went directly over the rubber and probably did mess with Braden's little pivot ditch that he digs before every half inning.

It's not the mound that's sacred, it's where the pitcher pitches that is sacred.

And if you watch the replay, it wasn't a straight line to where A-Rod was going. He was going back to to first after a foul ball. He took an indirect route to pass over the middle of the mound and step on the rubber. Maybe he did it by accident, and just wasn't paying attention, but regardless, he shouldn't have messed with the rubber.

TheNext44
04-23-2010, 02:47 AM
I don't have the direct quotes, because I heard it on ESPN, but whether you think Braden is nuts for getting upset over this or not, he did supply some great quotes:

(Paraphrasing)

"When I am on the mound, it is the center of the universe. No one messes with my mound."

When asked if this was something personal between him and A-Rod -

"I would yell at my Grandmother if she crossed my mound. And I love my Grandmother."

hebroncougar
04-23-2010, 07:51 AM
Anytime someone gets after ARoid, I'm good with it.

oneupper
04-23-2010, 08:22 AM
Etiquette has a place in sports. Just ask any golfer.

bucksfan2
04-23-2010, 08:32 AM
I have always thought of ARod as a bush league player. To be honest its something that I have never looked for but I can't ever remember a player crossing across a mound during an inning. Its one of those things you just don't do. I also have little doubt that ARod did it in an attempt to annoy the pitcher. It just makes too much sense, unwritten rule or not, to run around the mound instead of right over it.

You stay classy ARoid!

Big Klu
04-23-2010, 08:57 AM
I have always thought of ARod as a bush league player. To be honest its something that I have never looked for but I can't ever remember a player crossing across a mound during an inning. Its one of those things you just don't do. I also have little doubt that ARod did it in an attempt to annoy the pitcher. It just makes too much sense, unwritten rule or not, to run around the mound instead of right over it.

You stay classy ARoid!

Exhibit A: October 19, 2004. Called out for interference after slapping the ball out of Red Sox pitcher Bronson Arroyo's glove during the ALCS. Violation of Rule 2.00(a).

Exhibit B: May 30, 2007. Yells "Mine", at Blue Jays 3B Howie Clark while running out a two-out popup by Jorge Posada, causing confusion and allowing the ball to drop.

KoryMac5
04-23-2010, 09:09 AM
A Rod speaks on the incident:


"He just told me to get off his mound," Rodriguez said. "That was a little surprising. I’ve never quite heard that - especially from a guy that has a handful of wins in his career".

A Rod needs to start taking some lessons from Jeter in tact.

Razor Shines
04-23-2010, 09:16 AM
Going from 3rd to 1st isn't a straight line across the mound? I saw the replay too and it looked like a straight line to me.


To me Braden seems like the baby in this situation. I'd rather he just drilled A-Rod next time he faced. I thought it was pretty funny how pissed he got, after the double play as he was walking to the bench he threw is glove into a bunch of cups that came back and hit him in the face.

ARod could stay classy on my team OPSing over 1000.

NJReds
04-23-2010, 09:21 AM
This is one unwritten rule I've never heard of, but baseball's unwritten rulebook is longer than it's written rulebook.

Razor Shines
04-23-2010, 09:21 AM
A Rod speaks on the incident:



A Rod needs to start taking some lessons from Jeter in tact.

Yeah Braden was waaaayy more tactful, during and after the game.


"I don't care if I'm Cy Young or if I'm the 25th man on the roster," Braden said. "If I've got that ball in my hand and I'm out there on that mound, that's not your mound. If you want to run across the mound, go run laps in the bullpen. That's my mound."


Said Braden: "Well, now he has, you know? I don't go over there and run laps at third base. I don't go over there. I don't spit over there. I don't spit over there. I stay away. You guys ever see anybody run across the mound like that? He ran across the pitcher's mound, foot on my rubber. No. Not flyin."

I love how Braden tries to act like he's old school, then goes on a 7 minute rant to the media after the game.

westofyou
04-23-2010, 09:31 AM
The games main focus is a battle between a pitcher and a batter, it's a battle that relies more on talent, but also has severe head games attached to it. It's the linchpin of the game, running across the mound is just an attempt to put a dent in that battle.

In essence it's more clever than a crap move, and if Paul Janish did it no one in America would have written a word about it outside of this board.

_Sir_Charles_
04-23-2010, 11:10 AM
How much you want to bet that Dallas Braden doesn't do this if he's on an NL team. No chance of getting plunked in the AL. Pitchers can talk a LOT more smack in that league.

I got a kick out of the "I'm the center of the universe" comment from Braden on Baseball Tonight. Almost had soda shoot out my nose at THAT gem.

KoryMac5
04-23-2010, 11:17 AM
The kid was out of line and he could have said something after the game or during BP the next time these two played. However A-Rod also needs to act like he is the superstar and member of the NY Yankees. In some cases you have to stay above the fray. I have always told folks to never argue with a child and I think this applies here. A-Rod could have come out looking much better if he had taken the high road.

Reds Freak
04-23-2010, 12:00 PM
I side with Braden big time. You just don't do that. The reasons might not make sense, you just don't do it. Have you ever seen anyone else do that? I would never even think about running on the pitchers mound while the pitcher is there, you just run around it. To me it's AROD living up to his selfish, egotistical image...

Bumstead
04-23-2010, 12:21 PM
Braden is right here; he's over the top a bit but he's correct. One shouldn't mess with the pitcher's mound unless he's the other pitcher. A-Rod knows that and the number of wins a guy has in his career has very little to do with baseball etiquette. Sure, A-Rod could play on my team too, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't ask what the hell he was doing. Most times A-Rod just shouldn't talk; he has very little credibility and usually just says something stupid anyway.

Bum

Brutus
04-23-2010, 12:28 PM
Braden is right here; he's over the top a bit but he's correct. One shouldn't mess with the pitcher's mound unless he's the other pitcher. A-Rod knows that and the number of wins a guy has in his career has very little to do with baseball etiquette. Sure, A-Rod could play on my team too, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't ask what the hell he was doing. Most times A-Rod just shouldn't talk; he has very little credibility and usually just says something stupid anyway.

Bum

I hate A-Rod. But I don't think Braden is right at all. Walking over top the mound isn't "messing" with it.

So someone stepped on your mound? Honestly, big deal. It's a pretty trivial thing to get bent out of shape about.

blumj
04-23-2010, 12:33 PM
I side with Braden big time. You just don't do that. The reasons might not make sense, you just don't do it. Have you ever seen anyone else do that? I would never even think about running on the pitchers mound while the pitcher is there, you just run around it. To me it's AROD living up to his selfish, egotistical image...
Funny you should ask:


Like any rule, a small handful of guys go out of their way to crap on it, if only to be annoying. It shouldn't surprise anyone that A.J. Pierzynski is one of those players. According to multiple sources, he makes a habit of the practice, coming close enough to the pitcher to brush him on his way back to the base or the dugout.

"He's gotten hit a few times because of it," said Tim Raines, Pierzynski's former coach with the White Sox. "He's been hit more than once."


http://thebaseballcodes.com/

Strikes Out Looking
04-23-2010, 12:35 PM
I always learned that when you go back to a base after a foul ball, you go on the base paths.

ARod is nothing but a rich punk. I'm with Braden.

Slyder
04-23-2010, 12:43 PM
I just get the picture of 2 spoiled brats trying to have everything go their way. No reason for ARod to go across the mound and no reason for this guy (whats his name?) to go off the deep end. That be like Homer trying to act like Greg Maddux or John Smoltz and demanding that 3-6 inches off the plate be given to him.

Both managers ought to make em both go stand in the same corner until they can act like adults.

Roy Tucker
04-23-2010, 01:15 PM
I wouldn't like ARod messing with my rubber.

LincolnparkRed
04-23-2010, 01:22 PM
I'm with the pitcher. Arod knew what he was doing all along

westofyou
04-23-2010, 01:29 PM
What's funny is baseball is the game of manners and supposed "rules" that invite rancor when not covered correctly. Guys are jerks for not adhering to these unwritten tomes, yet in other sports, yelling, taunting, pushing, trash talking are all welcomed, excused and lauded.

Just bends my mind.

Chip R
04-23-2010, 01:36 PM
It's all gamesmanship plain and simple. A-Rod's trying to work this guy and this guy is trying not to get worked and let A-Rod know that he's going to get drilled if it happens again. It's like a batter peeking at the catcher to steal signals.

Dom Heffner
04-23-2010, 01:45 PM
Maybe one day when Dallas Braden has a picture of himself over his own bed as a centaur, he can then say something to A-Rod.

Until then, A-Rod can do whatever he wants.

In all seriousness, you follow the basepaths back to the base. Or, you don't walk over the pitching mound. A-Rod knows what he's doing, and the little jab he gave about not having many career wins was great, especially after Braden just got one of those few at A-Rod's expense.

For Braden to laud the Yankees like the organization's winning ways are because of their attitude and sportsmanship is very generous to say the least.

If I had a gazillion dollars more than anybody else, I would have a ton of World Series rings, and it would have nothing to do with how much or little class my organization had.

That's the only reason they win- they don't draft and raise talent, they simply let everybody else do it and then they steal them away at contract time.

Oh, wow. What an organization. The challenges facing that type of team building must be strenuous:

You pull out a list of free agents for that year and say we'll take him and him and him...

What class....:)

TheNext44
04-23-2010, 01:45 PM
What's funny is baseball is the game of manners and supposed "rules" that invite rancor when not covered correctly. Guys are jerks for not adhering to these unwritten tomes, yet in other sports, yelling, taunting, pushing, trash talking are all welcomed, excused and lauded.

Just bends my mind.

Most of those things are welcome and lauded in Baseball too. These "unwritten" rules have more to do with cheating than etiquette. Sliding with your cleats up, peaking at the catcher's signs, yelling "I got it" when you're a runner, catcher saying something right as the batter swings, messing with the mound, all "dirty" ways to get an advantage.

Baseball ain't Golf. Barreling over the catcher, taking out the SS on a double play are all part of the game, as is chatter from the dugout, and even on the field, which can get pretty spicy.

lollipopcurve
04-23-2010, 01:51 PM
Not the first time ARod has breached standard baseball etiquette -- remember him barking at a player waiting to catch a popup? Guess he's bigger than the game.

Bumstead
04-23-2010, 01:58 PM
I hate A-Rod. But I don't think Braden is right at all. Walking over top the mound isn't "messing" with it.

So someone stepped on your mound? Honestly, big deal. It's a pretty trivial thing to get bent out of shape about.

Sports in general are trivial...running over the mound to get in someone's head (and then put on a poor acting job like you don't know what you did) is no more trivial than the sport itself. The pitcher's mound belongs to the pitchers; leave it alone; easy concept...why do you think you don't see anyone other than A-Rod run over the mound; sports and bravado go hand in hand just like they should. It's not a big deal to you cause you don't pitch; pitchers don't want anybody else on the mound and base runners are well aware of this.

Bum

westofyou
04-23-2010, 02:10 PM
Sports in general are trivial...running over the mound to get in someone's head (and then put on a poor acting job like you don't know what you did) is no more trivial than the sport itself. The pitcher's mound belongs to the pitchers; leave it alone; easy concept...why do you think you don't see anyone other than A-Rod run over the mound; sports and bravado go hand in hand just like they should. It's not a big deal to you cause you don't pitch; pitchers don't want anybody else on the mound and base runners are well aware of this.

Bum

Exactly, it's a head game out there, not a friendly match, so A-Rod breeched etiquette, he garnered a reaction and that's what he was after.

Meanwhile cries of foul are funny to me... this game is for money, cheating occurs, head games occur and yet each tiem you'd reactions from folks who act like their sensibilities have been compromised by said action.

It's a chuckle

Ghosts of 1990
04-23-2010, 02:12 PM
Personally I think they're both acting like a couple of punks. Anyone else feel that way? Someone should tell Braden he's about worth a penny in this game so far and that the A's are a doormat until they do something; 15 games of decent baseball means nothing to me or teams like the yankees who win year in and year out. The A's are a pimple on the back of the Yankees and Dallas Braden is too.

Then again, A-Rod.... he's a punk as well. He should be above that stuff. Guy is just a shady character.

TheNext44
04-23-2010, 02:16 PM
One thing to consider... Braden is a lefty. Might explain it a bit.

durl
04-23-2010, 02:36 PM
A-Rod may not have known about the "unwritten rule," but the problem is that he's shown on multiple occasions that he's cool with Bush League antics. I doubt his claim of ignorance.

I'm also with JayBruce32; Braden over-reacted. Yelling like he did came across as childish.

Brutus
04-23-2010, 03:12 PM
Sports in general are trivial...running over the mound to get in someone's head (and then put on a poor acting job like you don't know what you did) is no more trivial than the sport itself. The pitcher's mound belongs to the pitchers; leave it alone; easy concept...why do you think you don't see anyone other than A-Rod run over the mound; sports and bravado go hand in hand just like they should. It's not a big deal to you cause you don't pitch; pitchers don't want anybody else on the mound and base runners are well aware of this.

Bum

I pitched through high school and I know there were times that runners returned to a base crossing over the mount and I absolutely never thought anything of it.

It's still silly. If you are so weak-minded as a pitcher that a runner crossing over the mound gets to you, then perhaps you shouldn't be in the majors. It may be mind games, but it doesn't show much poise if that kind of mundane action rattles you.

savafan
04-23-2010, 03:14 PM
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l1cc9tgXtp1qb0ctno1_500.png

Hoosier Red
04-23-2010, 04:04 PM
It's all gamesmanship plain and simple. A-Rod's trying to work this guy and this guy is trying not to get worked and let A-Rod know that he's going to get drilled if it happens again. It's like a batter peeking at the catcher to steal signals.

Here's what I don't get. A-Rod's got what 2,000 hits? He's probably been in this situation roughly 750 to 1000 times. We've never heard of him doing this before. If a) it was bush and b) he knew what he was doing, why now?

Of course I suppose he could do it all the time and we wouldn't know. If Braden hadn't thrown a kiniption fit I doubt we'd know this time.

Razor Shines
04-23-2010, 04:43 PM
I pitched through high school and I know there were times that runners returned to a base crossing over the mount and I absolutely never thought anything of it.

It's still silly. If you are so weak-minded as a pitcher that a runner crossing over the mound gets to you, then perhaps you shouldn't be in the majors. It may be mind games, but it doesn't show much poise if that kind of mundane action rattles you.

I'm with you. I pitched in college and never have heard of this "rule" or cared if someone ran over the mound, and it happened. Not something that happened every game, but I've seen it plenty of times, I just never thought to make a note of it.

Bumstead
04-23-2010, 05:04 PM
Considering Braden pitched quite well and Oakland won the game, I don't see how his reaction threw him off at all. For me, I guess it would depend where I was at as a pitcher. If I'm stepping onto or already on the mound, he's getting beaned.

Bum

Brutus
04-23-2010, 05:29 PM
Considering Braden pitched quite well and Oakland won the game, I don't see how his reaction threw him off at all. For me, I guess it would depend where I was at as a pitcher. If I'm stepping onto or already on the mound, he's getting beaned.

Bum

Well, Braden only faced literally one batter during & after the incident. He pitched 6 innings total and the incident happened with 2 outs in the 6th. So there really wasn't exactly time for us to know whether he would have pitched effectively after that.

To each his own. I just think it's a small thing and shouldn't be that big of a deal. It's very likely that A-Rod may have known what he was doing, as he has a history of pushing the line, but even if that's his intent, I just don't see this as something to worry much over.

durl
04-24-2010, 12:48 AM
From Ken Rosenthal's column on foxsports.com:


“The first person that I ever heard refer to the mound as his office was Gibson,” [Tim] McCarver said, referring to his former teammate, Hall of Famer Bob Gibson. “And (Steve) Carlton picked that up.

“In fact, when Pete Rose would make an out — particularly on a flyball unless it was the third out of an an inning — he would intentionally run over the back of the mound on his way back to the dugout if the dugout was on the third-base side. He would intimidate rookie pitchers in that regard.

“He tried that once with Gibson in the mid-60s and Gibson threw at him the next time up. Pete spat at him. And the next one was a lot closer. Pete didn’t spit the second time.”

Gibson’s philosophy?

“You never come into my office unless you’re invited — and you’ll never be invited,” McCarver said. -Ken Rosenthal

George Anderson
04-24-2010, 12:50 AM
I'm with you. I pitched in college and never have heard of this "rule" or cared if someone ran over the mound, and it happened. Not something that happened every game, but I've seen it plenty of times, I just never thought to make a note of it.

I have never heard about this unwritten rule either.

If Braden had a problem with it he should have just kept his mouth shut and the next time ARod was up he should have made him wear it.

westofyou
04-24-2010, 01:20 AM
From Ken Rosenthal's column on foxsports.com:

Yep, I've read that elsewhere, and it wasn't just Pete who did it too.

Ron Madden
04-24-2010, 03:49 AM
Now that you all know that Pete Rose is guilty of the same tactics as ARod, it doesn't seem quite so bush league anymore does it? ;)

Matt700wlw
04-24-2010, 03:56 AM
I say they settle it like men. Steel Cage match!!

Ron Madden
04-24-2010, 04:01 AM
I say they settle it like men. Steel Cage match!!

I think the kid shoulda kept his mouth shut and drilled ARod the next time he faced him. It's all about mind games. :)

Matt700wlw
04-24-2010, 04:08 AM
Psycology is always good too!

traderumor
04-24-2010, 07:44 AM
Why don't pitchers make the huddle on a trip to the mound take place off the mound? Wonder how they feel about a teammate using their resin bag? As most are, this unwritten rule is childish. Maybe Braden should make a urine circle around the mound next time he is out there.

Ltlabner
04-24-2010, 07:56 AM
I love when people get all riled up about "unwritten rules" and how you "just don't do this or that".

It's a dumb game of men hitting the ball with a stick.

Arod was being the playground bully, it got the pitcher all worked up and then the Yankees lost. End of story.

And I agree with those saying it's dumb that this pitcher considers his "workspace" sacred when every time there's a mound meeting there's people trampling all over it. Don't recall him freaking out over that.

Should third basemen freakout anytime someone slides into 3B and disturbs their landscaping?

jojo
04-24-2010, 08:09 AM
Arod tried to intimidate Braden. Braden bit back. That's part of baseball's fabric that makes the garment so colorful and fun to look at and wear.

Arod's comments to the reporters about it? Kinda bush league and sissyboyish....

Listen Arod, the kid wasn't intimidated. You look kinda dumb now by talking about it like you did.

RFS62
04-24-2010, 08:19 AM
Gibson's comments about "his office" are as much of a mind game as anything else. He was in the head of every hitter in baseball who had to face him. It's hard enough to deal with his nasty stuff, much less worry about getting drilled too.

Bench jockeys used to be part of the game to a greater extent than you see today. Leo Durocher made an art form of the needle to get inside his opponents heads and get an edge.

Whomever loses his cool gives up the edge.

traderumor
04-24-2010, 08:30 AM
Gibson's comments about "his office" are as much of a mind game as anything else. He was in the head of every hitter in baseball who had to face him. It's hard enough to deal with his nasty stuff, much less worry about getting drilled too.

Bench jockeys used to be part of the game to a greater extent than you see today. Leo Durocher made an art form of the needle to get inside his opponents heads and get an edge.

Whomever loses his cool gives up the edge.
Some call the bathroom their "office," too ;)

Blimpie
05-05-2010, 10:09 PM
Bumped thread due to a very interesting article posted tonight on ESPN.com:

Unwritten rules violations:
Three former pitching greats share their thoughts on how best to mete out justice

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&page=starting9/100505

Great read...It certainly doesn't hurt that the three pitchers were named Palmer, Blyleven and Gossage.

Enjoy.

Slyder
05-06-2010, 12:24 AM
Bumped thread due to a very interesting article posted tonight on ESPN.com:

Unwritten rules violations:
Three former pitching greats share their thoughts on how best to mete out justice

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&page=starting9/100505

Great read...It certainly doesn't hurt that the three pitchers were named Palmer, Blyleven and Gossage.

Enjoy.

Certainly was an interest comparision of games when those 3 pitched and now. Pitchers get tossed for half the "responses".

Oh ya there were a bunch of...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7X2_V60YK8[/URL]

Stuff

Brutus
05-07-2010, 12:35 PM
Dallas Braden talking some trash now...

Dallas Braden stirs pot over Alex Rodriguez' baserunning (http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5170739)

Honestly, I really think Braden was just trying to make himself relevant with all this stuff. Since it's clear he's not dropping the issue, I question his motivation here.

George Anderson
05-07-2010, 12:38 PM
Dallas Braden talking some trash now...

Dallas Braden stirs pot over Alex Rodriguez' baserunning (http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5170739)

Honestly, I really think Braden was just trying to make himself relevant with all this stuff. Since it's clear he's not dropping the issue, I question his motivation here.

Bradens 15 minutes are about up.

westofyou
05-07-2010, 12:41 PM
Bradens 15 minutes are about up.

Every time his mouth opens he seems dumber.

edabbs44
05-07-2010, 12:57 PM
Dallas Braden talking some trash now...

Dallas Braden stirs pot over Alex Rodriguez' baserunning (http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5170739)

Honestly, I really think Braden was just trying to make himself relevant with all this stuff. Since it's clear he's not dropping the issue, I question his motivation here.

He sounds like a jerk, but it's more the approach than it is the message. I can't argue what he is saying.

IowaRed
05-07-2010, 01:03 PM
it would be time for Geren or Curt Young or whoever is the leader on that team, maybe Chavez, to pull him aside and say "enough". I'm sure reporters are asking him about it all the time but all it's showing is that he's a fool by not being mature enough to let it go since it's not helping him in any way.

After all the stories on A-Rod I'm guessing he's losing sleep but I doubt it has anything to do with Dallas Braden

Bumstead
05-07-2010, 01:24 PM
I still don't see anything wrong with what Braden is saying. The media asks him questions and answers them the way he feels about the questions. Braden has certainly had less to say about it than the RedsZone forum has had to say on the subject...

Bum

Chip R
05-07-2010, 01:40 PM
Every time his mouth opens he seems dumber.

Indeed. I don't think he's necessarily wrong but he's not exactly a member of the Algonquin Round Table.

Blitz Dorsey
05-07-2010, 01:58 PM
You just don't do it. It might sound stupid, but there is no need for a runner to cross over the mound. Maybe on the very foot of the mound, but certainly not running directly over it and actually touching the rubber. You run around the mound to get back to the dugout or wherever you are going. I played baseball through college (small college) and this is just how it's done and everyone knows it. You can not equate this to a pitcher covering home plate and "messing up the batter's box" for the hitters. There is a reason he is covering the plate -- a pretty important one: to prevent a run from scoring. There is no reason for a batter to cross over the pitching mound ever.

And yes, I'm slightly biased here since I'm an ex-pitcher. But it's a rule that baseball players abide by unless they are clueless prima donnas.

Nasty_Boy
05-07-2010, 02:22 PM
I couldn't disagree more Mr. Dorsey... I played 1 year of D1 baseball and 3 years at the NAIA level and I heard a ton of "unwritten" rules but I never knew a thing about going across the mound. My brother also played 4 years of college ball and he was also clueless about this unwritten rule. But he was a catcher and I was a 1st/3rd baseman so maybe we weren't filled in on the rules of the pitchers union, to quote Chris Welsh.

Blitz Dorsey
05-07-2010, 03:05 PM
I couldn't disagree more Mr. Dorsey... I played 1 year of D1 baseball and 3 years at the NAIA level and I heard a ton of "unwritten" rules but I never knew a thing about going across the mound. My brother also played 4 years of college ball and he was also clueless about this unwritten rule. But he was a catcher and I was a 1st/3rd baseman so maybe we weren't filled in on the rules of the pitchers union, to quote Chris Welsh.

Yeah, it's a pitcher's thing for sure, but batters/runners abide by it. Think about it: Did YOU ever run across the mound and touch the pitching rubber during your days of playing baseball during a game? (Between innings count.) I bet the answer is no. Not saying I would have drilled you if I saw you do it, I would just think you were bush league for doing it. It's not something that should get a hitter plunked, but it's certainly frowned upon.

George Anderson
05-07-2010, 03:13 PM
I couldn't disagree more Mr. Dorsey... I played 1 year of D1 baseball and 3 years at the NAIA level and I heard a ton of "unwritten" rules but I never knew a thing about going across the mound. My brother also played 4 years of college ball and he was also clueless about this unwritten rule. But he was a catcher and I was a 1st/3rd baseman so maybe we weren't filled in on the rules of the pitchers union, to quote Chris Welsh.

I agree, locally I have never heard of this unwritten rule. I also umpire alot of travel ball over the summer and I get alot of 16 and 17 year old teams in from all over the country and crossing the pitchers mound as a form of disrespect to the pitcher is something I never have heard of.

Brutus
05-07-2010, 03:18 PM
I still don't see anything wrong with what Braden is saying. The media asks him questions and answers them the way he feels about the questions. Braden has certainly had less to say about it than the RedsZone forum has had to say on the subject...

Bum

I have no problem with him being honest, but it's better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt. He could have made this issue go away, even with the media asking questions, by simply saying it was done and over with and there was no reason to bring it up.

Instead, he elected to stir it up again. I think he's acting like a child. I still think the whole crossing the mound thing is silly. If it was a big deal to him, he obviously made that point. But that he once again dedicated a lot of time to the subject in an interview several weeks later tells me it's not just about the mound anymore - provided it ever was to begin with.

TRF
05-07-2010, 03:32 PM
Indeed. I don't think he's necessarily wrong but he's not exactly a member of the Algonquin Round Table.

Admit right now you had to look up how to spell Algonquin.

Bumstead
05-07-2010, 03:51 PM
I have no problem with him being honest, but it's better to be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt. He could have made this issue go away, even with the media asking questions, by simply saying it was done and over with and there was no reason to bring it up.

Instead, he elected to stir it up again. I think he's acting like a child. I still think the whole crossing the mound thing is silly. If it was a big deal to him, he obviously made that point. But that he once again dedicated a lot of time to the subject in an interview several weeks later tells me it's not just about the mound anymore - provided it ever was to begin with.

Uh...he didn't bring it up. He was asked about it. And it looks like he devoted two short sentences to it that took what 25 seconds to deliver? No need to exaggerate that "article" as all he did was answer a couple of questions. I imagine the questions came about after ESPN did that article where they asked Gossage, Blyleven and Palmer what they thought (that was just a few days ago).

I think the fool you refer to is A-Rod...IMHO

Chip R
05-07-2010, 03:53 PM
Admit right now you had to look up how to spell Algonquin.

Nope.

Tommyjohn25
05-07-2010, 04:00 PM
Personally, I think it's entertaining. I, however, can't stand anything about AROD.

Brutus
05-07-2010, 04:03 PM
Uh...he didn't bring it up. He was asked about it. And it looks like he devoted two short sentences to it that took what 25 seconds to deliver? No need to exaggerate that "article" as all he did was answer a couple of questions. I imagine the questions came about after ESPN did that article where they asked Gossage, Blyleven and Palmer what they thought (that was just a few days ago).

I think the fool you refer to is A-Rod...IMHO

I know he was asked about it. Like I said... all he had to do was tell the media it was done and over with and he could have made it go away. That he continued to harp on it, even if he were prompted, just goes to show this is more than about someone crossing over a mound.

Bumstead
05-07-2010, 05:03 PM
I know he was asked about it. Like I said... all he had to do was tell the media it was done and over with and he could have made it go away. That he continued to harp on it, even if he were prompted, just goes to show this is more than about someone crossing over a mound.

Yeah, well, heaven forbid we hear interviews from someone other than Yankees or Red Sox players. A-Rod said he couldn't talk cause he didn't have enough wins...you might be a tad upset in that situation and just enjoy your moment for awhile if you were in his shoes too.

Just sayin.' We've spent more time on it than he has.

Bum

Brutus
05-07-2010, 05:25 PM
Yeah, well, heaven forbid we hear interviews from someone other than Yankees or Red Sox players. A-Rod said he couldn't talk cause he didn't have enough wins...you might be a tad upset in that situation and just enjoy your moment for awhile if you were in his shoes too.

Just sayin.' We've spent more time on it than he has.

Bum

And I still think it's silly. I thought it was a childish thing to be upset about when it happened, and I think it's even worse now that a few weeks have passed.

I have absolutely no love for A-Rod. I think he's a me-first guy who worries too much about his reputation. But in this particular case, I think the whole thing is ridiculous.

_Sir_Charles_
05-09-2010, 05:35 PM
Without actually saying it...Dallas Braden having a rather intriguing Mothers' day thus far after 6 innings.

blumj
05-09-2010, 05:45 PM
Through 7 now. Yankee fans conflicted, they want to support A-Rod but look who it's against.

Chip R
05-09-2010, 06:01 PM
Through 8 now.

MLB Network will have the 9th inning.

_Sir_Charles_
05-09-2010, 06:03 PM
Looks pretty calm out there. And throwing darts too. Good luck kid.

Homer Bailey
05-09-2010, 06:11 PM
Tune in!

westofyou
05-09-2010, 06:12 PM
I saw the last 2 A's No-No's....

Homer Bailey
05-09-2010, 06:12 PM
Oops, didn't see you were discussing it here. I just started a new thread. Mods merge if you'd like.

blumj
05-09-2010, 06:15 PM
Kapler almost killed Buehrle's.

mbgrayson
05-09-2010, 06:15 PM
He did it!!!!!!

westofyou
05-09-2010, 06:16 PM
Nice, now A-Rod's heard of him

CTA513
05-09-2010, 06:17 PM
Nice, now A-Rod's heard of him

I bet the only thing he cares about is the Rays losing.

mbgrayson
05-09-2010, 06:18 PM
Wow...nice job. #19 in MLB history....Perfect Game.

_Sir_Charles_
05-09-2010, 06:23 PM
That was a joy to watch. Just raw emotion. Congratulations Dallas. Well done kid. Well done.


Just another example of why the MLB Network is such a beautiful thing.

HeatherC1212
05-09-2010, 06:27 PM
That was awesome! I was watching Sportscenter and they covered the last two outs live and it was SO cool seeing the ending of a perfect game. I'd never seen that before and I love how excited all the guys were for him. Great job Dallas! :D

And ARoid better not walk anywhere near that mound when the A's next play the Yankees because I think Dallas just proved that he really does own it, LOL ;)

lollipopcurve
05-09-2010, 06:28 PM
Good for Braden. Lost his mom when he was 18, now a perfecto on Mother's Day.

I became a fan when he ripped ARod, now more so.

HeatherC1212
05-09-2010, 06:31 PM
Awww, I didn't know that he lost his mom. What a special thing to throw a perfect game on Mother's Day. Good for you Dallas!! :thumbup:

Brutus
05-09-2010, 06:33 PM
I still think he acted a fool with the stupid little mound stunts.

But very nice achievement for him today. That's a real keeper.

RedsManRick
05-09-2010, 06:36 PM
Corey Patterson in LF, Rosales at 3B. Gotta love it.

BTW, that's who Dallas Braden is A-Rod.

blumj
05-09-2010, 06:45 PM
Kind of bizarre to see an offense as good as the Rays get perfect gamed twice in less than a year.

_Sir_Charles_
05-09-2010, 06:51 PM
Awww, I didn't know that he lost his mom. What a special thing to throw a perfect game on Mother's Day. Good for you Dallas!! :thumbup:

Plus his Grandmother was at the game AND he even had a section of the stadium dedicated to his friends and family & hometown. Just a perfect scenario for him.

RBA
05-09-2010, 07:07 PM
Att: 12,228.

60,000 plus will say they were there.

HeatherC1212
05-09-2010, 07:07 PM
Plus his Grandmother was at the game AND he even had a section of the stadium dedicated to his friends and family & hometown. Just a perfect scenario for him.

They just showed him hugging his grandmother after the game during Baseball Tonight and I nearly lost it. What a special moment for him. I have to go find some Kleenex now, LOL :) :beerme:

Brutus
05-09-2010, 07:19 PM
Att: 12,228.

60,000 plus will say they were there.

Yeah I mean, 60,000 people already say they're A's fans, so what's a little more?
:cool:

Chip R
05-09-2010, 07:30 PM
Corey Patterson in LF, Rosales at 3B. Gotta love it.

BTW, that's who Dallas Braden is A-Rod.

Eric Patterson, not Corey.

Redsfan320
05-09-2010, 07:32 PM
When exactly did this happen? Cause I just now found out about it, and right now no one's covering it. Really irritating me .

320

RBA
05-09-2010, 07:53 PM
When exactly did this happen? Cause I just now found out about it, and right now no one's covering it. Really irritating me .

320



Mods should change topic name to "Get off my mound pitches Perfect Game"

klw
05-09-2010, 07:58 PM
I was there. I catch the A's everytime they are here in Tampa. ;)

RedsManRick
05-09-2010, 10:18 PM
Eric Patterson, not Corey.

LOL, oh... meh, still a Patterson.

cincinnati chili
05-09-2010, 10:37 PM
Maybe he can become the next Len Barker or Mike Witt.

George Anderson
05-09-2010, 10:42 PM
Is it just me or doesn't it seem like no hitters and perfect games always happen on weekends???

westofyou
05-09-2010, 11:46 PM
Is it just me or doesn't it seem like no hitters and perfect games always happen on weekends???

Getaway day is a famous no hit day IIRC.

westofyou
05-09-2010, 11:47 PM
Att: 12,228.

60,000 plus will say they were there.

They ruined that park in the 90's

George Anderson
05-10-2010, 12:26 AM
Getaway day is a famous no hit day IIRC.

Probally alotta hungover hitters from the Saturday night before.

Caveat Emperor
05-10-2010, 12:34 AM
Att: 12,228.

60,000 plus will say they were there.

12,228 more members of the club.

As someone who was actually present (with a ticket stub to prove it) at Yankee Stadium on July 18, 1999 when David Cone threw his perfect game, let me say to all of them: welcome.

:thumbup:

Roy Tucker
05-10-2010, 08:32 AM
Braden's 15 minutes of fame got extended.

flyer85
05-10-2010, 08:41 AM
Att: 12,228.

60,000 plus will say they were there.I was one of the few that sat through a 2.5 hour rain delay the night Browning tossed his el perfecto. There could not have been more than 6 or 7 thousand left at the game that night when it got started after 10pm.

camisadelgolf
05-10-2010, 11:01 AM
I was one of the few that sat through a 2.5 hour rain delay the night Browning tossed his el perfecto. There could not have been more than 6 or 7 thousand left at the game that night when it got started after 10pm.
My uncle has an unused ticket from that game. He planned on going, but then he got a date and ended up missing out on history. The woman eventually became his ex-wife, though, so now he really regrets not going.

Brutus
05-10-2010, 11:39 AM
Dallas Braden is being given a lesson, from A-Rod of all people, on how to handle questions on a subject that should be dead and buried...

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5175924

And with all due respect to the grandmother, it looks like being mouthy runs in the Braden family.

Reds Fanatic
05-10-2010, 12:08 PM
Good article on the perfect game from the San Francisco Chronicle:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/05/09/MNA11DC0TA.DTL&feed=rss.news

Chip R
05-10-2010, 12:10 PM
I wonder if this perfect game would have got the attention it did if it hadn't been for Braden's incident with A-Rod?

Hoosier Red
05-10-2010, 12:16 PM
Probably, there's only been 19 of them. It may not have taken the nasty tone though.

Something I found really interesting. He was interviewed on the Baseball Tonight pre game(radio) last night and the Amy Lawrence asked him if he felt like he had "perfect" stuff going into the game.

He said, "Well my stuff's never perfect, it's not like I'm going to all of a sudden start throwing my Fastball 89 miles per hour." And admittedly pretty standard answer.
But I thought to myself,
"89 MPH is the fastest you can even dream of throwing your fastball?" like anything in the 90's is so unbelievable it would destroy the comparison?

Just thought it was funny the choice of words.

For a guy without dominating stuff, he obviously pitched his butt off.

Redsfan320
05-10-2010, 12:28 PM
Just FYI, this game is being replayed at 12:30 today on MLBN.

320

Hoosier Red
05-10-2010, 12:32 PM
A trivia question I just thought up. How many pitchers have both a Cy Young and a Perfect game to their credit?

VR
05-10-2010, 12:36 PM
A trivia question I just thought up. How many pitchers have both a Cy Young and a Perfect game to their credit?

Technically, Cy Young would qualify.

Hoosier Red
05-10-2010, 12:38 PM
A fair point VR. So I'll add one to the answer. :)

TheNext44
05-10-2010, 01:07 PM
Good article on the perfect game from the San Francisco Chronicle:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/05/09/MNA11DC0TA.DTL&feed=rss.news

Best part from his Grandmother Lindsey who was at the game...


His grandmother at first agreed with Chavez that it's time to move past the Rodriguez business.

"I'm thinking, 'Let's forget it, let's forget it,' " Lindsey said.

But then she paused and said, "Stick it, A-Rod."

westofyou
05-10-2010, 01:16 PM
Best part from his Grandmother Lindsey who was at the game...

Classy lady eh? I wonder how full her spit cup is in her car.

_Sir_Charles_
05-10-2010, 01:24 PM
I wonder if this perfect game would have got the attention it did if it hadn't been for Braden's incident with A-Rod?

IMO, A-Rod topics only took attention AWAY from the perfect game...not the other way around. Perfect games don't need anything to draw attention to them. :thumbup:

westofyou
05-10-2010, 01:51 PM
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2010/05/09/perfection/#more-3379




The first modern National League perfect game didn’t happen until 1964 — that was Jim Bunning. By then there had been a few American League perfect games, the most prominent being Don Larsen’s World Series perfect game in 1956. After Bunning, Sandy Koufax threw one in 1965 and Catfish Hunter threw one in 1968. There were none in the 1970s, but four more perfect games from 1981-91. Well, perfect games — like Triple Crown horses — tend to come in bunches.

Last year, of course, Mark Buehrle threw a perfect game — and it’s stunning how similar Buehrle is to Braden. Buehrle was a 38th round draft choice. He could throw his fastball into the low 90s, but rarely did. He won with his change-up and with certainty. That day, the White Sox also made some great defensive plays.

The thing is … if you had to bet on someone throwing a perfect game in today’s era, you might think to bet on somebody with a 98-mph fastball and mean streak to go with it. But you would probably bet wrong. Since 1994 — going into Sunday — there had five perfect games. And four of them were thrown by what you might call, yes, crafty left-handers. Kenny Rogers threw one in 1994. His craftiness cousin David Wells threw one in 1998. Randy Johnson was, of course, a power pitcher, but by 2004 when he threw his perfect game he was 40 years old and as much guile as grit. And then there was Buehrle.

And THEN there was Braden.