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fearofpopvol1
04-23-2010, 01:28 AM
I fully admit that the title may be jumping the gun some...BUT...

Of the starters...he's...

#1 in ERA (lowest of course)
#2 in IP
#2 (tied) for hits allowed
#3 (tied) for home runes allowed
#3 (tied) for Ks
#5 in walks

Is this KID outpitching the rest of the staff? Yes, it's only been 3 starts, but he's gone up against the Cards, the Cubs and now the Dodgers, all of which have pretty good bats.

Brutus
04-23-2010, 01:32 AM
He's got the most talent, in my estimation. Of course I guess that's an easy comment to make on my behalf since he was a top pick and jumped straight to the majors.

I guess, though, I would (for the time being) take Arroyo before any of the Reds' starters if I had to pick someone to start game 7 of the series. Leake may be on the fast track to changing my opinion on that, though.

dougdirt
04-23-2010, 01:34 AM
Not even close, yet. Like you said, it is three starts. I can find a three game stretch by any of the other 4 that blow what Leake has done out of the water.

fearofpopvol1
04-23-2010, 01:36 AM
Not even close, yet. Like you said, it is three starts. I can find a three game stretch by any of the other 4 that blow what Leake has done out of the water.

True, but, it's pretty rare for a rookie, much less one that skips the minors AND is a Reds pitcher.

If it's not Leake, who is it then?

dougdirt
04-23-2010, 01:38 AM
True, but, it's pretty rare for a rookie, much less one that skips the minors AND is a Reds pitcher.

If it's not Leake, who is it then?

Depends who you ask.

fearofpopvol1
04-23-2010, 01:40 AM
Depends who you ask.

I'm asking you...since you made the claim that he's "not even close."

dougdirt
04-23-2010, 01:48 AM
I'm asking you...since you made the claim that he's "not even close."

This team doesn't have an Ace. A lot of teams don't. As for the Reds best pitcher, I don't honestly know, but it isn't the guy with 3 starts under his belt.

Captain Hook
04-23-2010, 02:32 AM
This team doesn't have an Ace. A lot of teams don't. As for the Reds best pitcher, I don't honestly know, but it isn't the guy with 3 starts under his belt.

So it's Arroyo then?

TheNext44
04-23-2010, 03:47 AM
Not sure if he is the Ace yet, but I do like the new nickname Fay gave him...

Cool Hand Leake

I wonder how many egg he can eat?

PuffyPig
04-23-2010, 07:02 AM
THe things that matter little in baseball:

Spring training
today
yesterday
small sample sizes

You don't base anything in baseball on small sample sizes.

WHo's CIncy's best starter? Based on this year, Leake has the best stats.

Based on last year, that is a tough one.

Going forward? I have no idea.

LoganBuck
04-23-2010, 07:24 AM
Not sure if he is the Ace yet, but I do like the new nickname Fay gave him...

Cool Hand Leake

I wonder how many egg he can eat?

Because he works faster, we can get the rest of the afternoon off!

BCubb2003
04-23-2010, 07:32 AM
He's the most reliable pitcher in the rotation right now. If I needed a win, I'd send him out there, then Arroyo. Certainly the tide will turn, but for now he is.

bucksfan2
04-23-2010, 08:45 AM
He's got the most talent, in my estimation. Of course I guess that's an easy comment to make on my behalf since he was a top pick and jumped straight to the majors.

I guess, though, I would (for the time being) take Arroyo before any of the Reds' starters if I had to pick someone to start game 7 of the series. Leake may be on the fast track to changing my opinion on that, though.

Pitching talent? I would put Bailey and Cueto above him in pitching talent with Volquez the 3rd when he comes off of suspension/DL.

He may have the most moxie and control. I think he can develop into a little better pitcher than Arroyo in his prime.

jojo
04-23-2010, 08:46 AM
No.

SunDeck
04-23-2010, 09:09 AM
Let's wait to see how well he pitches the second time around against major league hitting before we start naming him the ace. Obviously, he's got some talent, but players stick in the majors because they learn and adjust. If he can handle that, then I'll be impressed.

durl
04-23-2010, 09:15 AM
He's the most reliable pitcher in the rotation right now. If I needed a win, I'd send him out there, then Arroyo. Certainly the tide will turn, but for now he is.

I agree with you on this. Right now, he's the guy I'm more confident with on the mound.

I got a chuckle out of something I heard on MLB Network last night. Setting up the Reds/Dodgers game recap, Hazel Mae called Harang the "ace" of the staff. He may be the #1 starter, but he is, in no way, the ace. You can't go 6-14 one year, start the next 0-4, and be called an "ace."

westofyou
04-23-2010, 09:16 AM
No

medford
04-23-2010, 09:18 AM
He's the most reliable pitcher in the rotation right now. If I needed a win, I'd send him out there, then Arroyo. Certainly the tide will turn, but for now he is.

I think BCubb hit the crux of the question. If your life depended upon a win and you could name any starter in the rotation to go tonight to save your life, who do you pick. They may not be an "ace" in major league baseball, but that would define the "ace" of the Reds staff.

Me, I'm still picking Arroyo, but Leake isn't too far off, which perhaps says more about the early performances of Harang, Cueto & Bailey

Falls City Beer
04-23-2010, 09:41 AM
The only way to answer the question in the opening post: who cares?

nate
04-23-2010, 09:44 AM
No. If one must have an "ace" pitcher, that pitcher this season has been Arroyo.

For me, so far this season, the starters rank thusly:

Arroyo
Cueto
Leake
Bailey
Harang

Danny Serafini
04-23-2010, 09:54 AM
I have to say, it's odd seeing this question the day after he gave up five runs in seven innings. That didn't exactly make me say ace right now.

yab1112
04-23-2010, 10:35 AM
Let's wait to see how well he pitches the second time around against major league hitting before we start naming him the ace. Obviously, he's got some talent, but players stick in the majors because they learn and adjust. If he can handle that, then I'll be impressed.

Well said. He's certainly impressed so far, but "so far" is a blip of a sample size.

membengal
04-23-2010, 10:56 AM
Not the ace, but he's on an island by himself of Reds' starting pitchers I look forward to watching take the mound at this point in time.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2010, 11:00 AM
Reds' starters have recorded outs beyond the 6th inning on only five occasions this season. Arroyo vs. Cards, Harang vs. Cubs, and Leake in all three of his starts. FWIW.

Ghosts of 1990
04-23-2010, 11:02 AM
He's not the ace. He won't even be our best rookie on the staff when Chapman gets called up. Chapman is going to change things for us big time... we will be a force when he goes every 5th day. And it's a good problem to have a guy like Leake. WHile he's not the ace, he's definitely MLB ready. The Reds were right about this kid.

HeatherC1212
04-23-2010, 11:53 AM
I have to say, it's odd seeing this question the day after he gave up five runs in seven innings. That didn't exactly make me say ace right now.

Holding the Dodgers lineup to only five runs should be considered a quality start considering how many runs they put up in the first two games. Five seems like only three in this case. :eek:

I agree that there's not really an ace right now but I continue to be very impressed by how nonplussed Mike Leake is about everything. He just does not get rattled on the mound and for a pitcher that's a very good thing. Jay said something in his interview last night that I agree with about Mike. He talked about how Mike was so young and inexperienced with about everything in the majors that he just doesn't know any better. He just goes out there, competes hard, and pitches his game like he did for his entire college career. The other guys all know what's at stake when they do or don't pitch well but Mike just goes out and does his thing without really understanding that yet. I kind of hope he never quite realizes the magnitude of what he's doing for this whole season, LOL :laugh:

Chip R
04-23-2010, 11:57 AM
The only way to answer the question in the opening post: who cares?


Since there are 25 responses to the original thread - including two of your own, it appears that several people care. You want to snark on the Reds pitching, that's fine but keep your comments about a thread to yourself.

Roy Tucker
04-23-2010, 12:37 PM
I'd say that Leake is the rookie starting ace of the Reds for the first 16 games.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2010, 01:08 PM
Since there are 25 responses to the original thread - including two of your own, it appears that several people care. You want to snark on the Reds pitching, that's fine but keep your comments about a thread to yourself.

I didn't mean it as an insult to the first poster at all. Perhaps I should have said to the question "Is Mike Leake the ace of the rotation?": How could you tell?

That's the point I was attempting to convey. Affixing the term "ace" to one of the current starters is kind of an insult to the term.

11larkin11
04-23-2010, 01:57 PM
There is no question he's been the best so far, game for game. Arroyo had probably the best game so far, but not consistent.

So far this year,

Leake
Arroyo
Cueto
Bailey
Harang

WVRedsFan
04-23-2010, 02:26 PM
Well...there are no aces on this staff. Leake has the best ERA, but Arroyo has allowed the least hits and but for one game might be miles ahead of Leake. Leake leads in BB's and Arroyo in K's.

Hard to say.

fearofpopvol1
04-23-2010, 02:28 PM
For those that have said "no" and didn't provide who is, who is then? It's easy to say "no," but it should be expected that if you think he's not that you think someone else is.

RedsManRick
04-23-2010, 02:43 PM
I'd be a very happy man if I never heard the term "ace" again. It connotes some skill that isn't measured by other pitching metrics. As if there were some special skill beyond simply being a really good pitcher that differentiated you from others.

That rant aside, interpreting the question as "Is Mike Leake an ace?", clearly he's not. I think there's virtually no chance of him putting up numbers in the sub 3.50 FIP range that would make him an average #1 SP in the NL.

However, if the question is "Is Leake the most effective starter on the Reds?", it really depends on what you think reasonable expectations are.
His current 5.66 K/9 and BB/9 rates are both very poor. His HR rate is solid, as is his GB rate. His current FIP sits just shy of 5.00. Clearly not our ace.

However, I think we can expect something like a 6.0 K/9, a 3.0 BB/9 and a 1.0 HR/9. That would give him a 4.31 FIP, which I think will put him in the exact same ballpark as every other member of the starting rotation when it's all said and done, Could he end up being the best? I suppose so. But I see a 4.00 ERA upside this year and a potential, as with all rookies, for much worse.

nate
04-23-2010, 02:51 PM
That rant aside, interpreting the question as "Is Mike Leake an ace?", clearly he's not. I think there's virtually no chance of him putting up numbers in the sub 3.50 FIP range that would make him an average #1 SP in the NL.

Tangent. I was just looking at something earlier and noticed two guys who were starters for the Reds last year that currently have a sub 3.5 FIP.

I wonder if anyone can guess who they are!

:cool:

TheNext44
04-23-2010, 03:02 PM
Tangent. I was just looking at something earlier and noticed two guys who were starters for the Reds last year that currently have a sub 3.5 FIP.

I wonder if anyone can guess who they are!

:cool:

Arroyo and Owings?

Actually, Lehr, Wells and Volquez do as well, but that's only because they haven't started any games yet. :p:

nate
04-23-2010, 03:23 PM
Arroyo and Owings?

Actually, Lehr, Wells and Volquez do as well, but that's only because they haven't started any games yet. :p:

Yes!

Ghosts of 1990
04-23-2010, 03:24 PM
That's the point I was attempting to convey. Affixing the term "ace" to one of the current starters is kind of an insult to the term.

You have a point, and that makes me sad.

I can't wait to someday have a bonafide ace again, a true stopper.

In terms of a stopper, Bunny Arroyo is that man.

Falls City Beer
04-23-2010, 07:56 PM
Demote Arroyo. Promote Owings. Until July, when Arroyo's carpal tunnel improves.

dougdirt
04-23-2010, 08:32 PM
Can I change my vote to yes?

klw
04-23-2010, 08:54 PM
Tangent. I was just looking at something earlier and noticed two guys who were starters for the Reds last year that currently have a sub 3.5 FIP.

I wonder if anyone can guess who they are!

:cool:

This is now like the outdated trivial pursuit questions where the answer is East Germany.

BCubb2003
04-23-2010, 10:38 PM
Since Leake is the only starter who has won a game, I guess that makes him the ace. Or at least the stopper.

marcshoe
04-24-2010, 01:00 AM
Mike Leake may one day be the ace of the staff, but unfortunately this staff is currently a long way from having an ace. I think when Aroldis comes up, the staff will improve and will, before the season is over, be more than decent, but as for a legit ace? I don't want to water down the term.

Matt700wlw
04-24-2010, 03:45 AM
The Reds "ACE" is in Louisville. He throws really fast, and is from Cuba. However, he's not ready for that role quite yet.

Right now, Mike Leake has proven himself to be a good pitcher, especially since he never played any minor league ball. Ace? Maybe for this staff, but no....not in reality.

The Reds have no Ace. Harang is an overpaid 5th starter at best.

Arroyo had a bad night tonight, but I still count on him to give what his stats say he should, and there is nothing wrong with that.

I'm not sure from there...

I say hang with Homer a bit longer and see...

Cueto will hopefully do better after his day off, even though he didn't pitch winter ball. It's April. Come on.

I'm not sure if any of this answered anything, but I gave it a shot.

GAC
04-24-2010, 04:12 AM
If a kid who was fighting for the 5th spot in the rotation at the end of ST is our Ace, then we in a whole heap of trouble.

reds44
04-24-2010, 04:43 AM
If a kid who was fighting for the 5th spot in the rotation at the end of ST is our Ace, then we in a whole heap of trouble.
"We in a whole hope of trouble" applies for a lot of stuff going on with the Reds right now.

traderumor
04-24-2010, 08:14 AM
Leake is an ace if you define the analagous "flying ace" as "only pilot who has yet to crash his plane into a mountain." If that is how "Reds' ace" is defined, then yes. :D

George Anderson
04-24-2010, 11:32 AM
Roger Craig with his record of 10-24 with a 4.51 ERA was considered the ace of the 62' Mets.

Sometimes whoever is the ace of the staff is not all that important in the grand scheme of things.

GAC
04-25-2010, 05:21 AM
Leake is an ace if you define the analagous "flying ace" as "only pilot who has yet to crash his plane into a mountain." If that is how "Reds' ace" is defined, then yes. :D

Was Ted Striker an ace? :lol:

http://cade14.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/tedstriker-pressure.jpg

Big Klu
04-25-2010, 04:03 PM
Was Ted Striker an ace? :lol:

http://cade14.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/tedstriker-pressure.jpg

Now George Zip--he was an ace!

VR
04-25-2010, 04:11 PM
Now George Zip--he was an ace!

Let's win one for the Zipper.

Just watched that last night w/ my 14 yr old. He didn't get most of it

fearofpopvol1
04-28-2010, 10:02 PM
Is he the ace yet?

7 IP, 5 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 5 K -- ERA on the year is 3.25.

Also had 1 hit tonight (batting average is now .400).

Tom Servo
04-28-2010, 10:10 PM
Obviously he's eventually going to run into trouble, but I am incredibly impressed with Leake. And I'd rather he take those inevitable lumps in the big leagues than toil in AAA.

Brutus
04-28-2010, 10:17 PM
Obviously he's eventually going to run into trouble, but I am incredibly impressed with Leake. And I'd rather he take those inevitable lumps in the big leagues than toil in AAA.

When he runs into trouble, though, I have a feeling it won't be the kind of trouble folks in Reds' land are accustomed to. This kid has so much poise, so much moxy that it almost feels like he can work himself out of jams others typically can't.

I just love how he's around the plate. Love his movement. Love the heavy balls he throws. Kid is a pitcher.

VR
04-28-2010, 10:46 PM
When he runs into trouble, though, I have a feeling it won't be the kind of trouble folks in Reds' land are accustomed to. This kid has so much poise, so much moxy that it almost feels like he can work himself out of jams others typically can't.

I just love how he's around the plate. Love his movement. Love the heavy balls he throws. Kid is a pitcher.

All good, I think he's as much a player as a pitcher. His bat, defense, and baserunning will be factors in many wins this year as well.

TheNext44
04-28-2010, 10:50 PM
Don't really know what an "Ace" is but if the Reds had to win one game, I'd hope they had Leake pitching.

RedEye
04-28-2010, 11:16 PM
Don't really know what an "Ace" is but if the Reds had to win one game, I'd hope they had Leake pitching.

Strange to say, but I completely agree with you. I hope this changes later in the season. I don't want Leake to falter, but I want some of the other starters to give him more competition for the distinction.

fearofpopvol1
04-28-2010, 11:27 PM
He pitched a gem tonight. He did get into a bit of trouble in the 5th inning, but prior to that, he had retired 13 Astros in a row. Yeah yeah, the Astros aren't the best team in the league, but 13 in a row against major league hitters is super impressive.

I'd like to know the last time another Reds pitcher retired 13 in a row.

OnBaseMachine
04-28-2010, 11:38 PM
Leake is very impressive. In addition to the solid 2 BB/5 K he posted tonight, he had a 11 GO/4 FO ratio. I love that he keeps the ball on the ground (I just wish Dusty would start Janish at SS on days when Leake pitches). He's pitch efficient, he fields his position well, and he can swing the bat. I can't wait to watch him pitch in person.

Superdude
04-28-2010, 11:44 PM
regardless of pitchability and all that, Leake's stuff was flat out impressive tonight. The way he was tailing that 90MPH sinker back over the outside corner to righties was disgusting.

OnBaseMachine
04-28-2010, 11:54 PM
From Fay:


“Except for that one inning, it was good,” Leake said. “I tried to do too much that inning. (Ramon Hernandez) called a good game. The offense did its job. It was a good all-round game.”

Leake, 2-0 with a 3.25 ERA, has made the adjustment from pitching in the PAC 10 for Arizona State to pitching in the National League for the Reds look ridiculously easy.

“There’s always adjustments in baseball,” he said. “These guys have helped me, bringing me along, making it easier for me.”


http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/04/28/cool-hand-leake-again/

Captain Hook
04-29-2010, 12:29 AM
Leake is very impressive. In addition to the solid 2 BB/5 K he posted tonight, he had a 11 GO/4 FO ratio. I love that he keeps the ball on the ground. I just wish Dusty would start Janish at SS on days when Leake pitches. He's pitch efficient, he fields his position well, and he can swing the bat. I can't wait to watch him pitch in person.

Who's Paul Yanish?

Will M
04-29-2010, 01:21 AM
i couldn't watch Leake's first three starts but I did watch tonights game.
Very impressive.
6 out of 7 innings he made it look easy.
and in the 1 bad inning he had he was able to limit the damage to ONE run.
folks, thats some fine pitching.

traderumor
04-29-2010, 09:31 AM
regardless of pitchability and all that, Leake's stuff was flat out impressive tonight. The way he was tailing that 90MPH sinker back over the outside corner to righties was disgusting.Agree. This is the first time I have got to sit down and watch his entire outing, and the movement is beautiful. I did not like the number of hitters he got behind, which did not lead to walks last night, but has thus far.

On another note, I vote for a nickname contest, since "Cool Hand Leake" is annoying me. My submission is "Take a Leake"

SirFelixCat
04-29-2010, 10:14 AM
I think it's time to say that the FO got this one right, not just in the drafting, but also in bringing him north from ST. :thumbup:

kpresidente
04-29-2010, 10:22 AM
Volquez had an ERA in the 1's for half a season and everybody was calling him the next Pedro Martinez. Cueto was in the low 2's for almost as long last year. Both were in either their first or second real MLB seasons at the time. That's going to be tough for Leake to beat.

Sea Ray
04-29-2010, 10:22 AM
I like what I've seen from Leake so far but he will need to adjust as he goes through the league. A lot of pitches that he's fooling hitters on are way out of the strike zone. This reminds me of Ryan Wagner early in his career. Word will get around to wait on Leake and he'll walk you. I think Leake purposely throws it out of the strike zone because it's been so successful for him rather than he not knowing where it's going.

lollipopcurve
04-29-2010, 10:31 AM
regardless of pitchability and all that, Leake's stuff was flat out impressive tonight

"Pitchability and all that"? Without his ability to locate, throw a variety of breaking stuff and work out of jams, he isn't Mike Leake. It's not like he's blowing away guys with stuff over the plate.

Velocity and movement are nothing without command. Being able to command pitches with a lot of movement requires understanding one's delivery well and being able to repeat. Because Leake is smart and an exceptional athlete for a pitcher, he can do that. And he doesn't get rattled. He's got stuff, yeah, but a lot of guys have stuff. It's his ability to manipulate it that makes him who he is.

forfreelin04
04-29-2010, 10:50 AM
I like what I've seen from Leake so far but he will need to adjust as he goes through the league. A lot of pitches that he's fooling hitters on are way out of the strike zone. This reminds me of Ryan Wagner early in his career. Word will get around to wait on Leake and he'll walk you. I think Leake purposely throws it out of the strike zone because it's been so successful for him rather than he not knowing where it's going.

You kind of contradict yourself here. You say "he purposely throws it out of the zone" after you say "he will walk guys."

While I understand your argument after watching guys lay off Leake's stuff outside of the zone, I think your underestimating his command. Consistently last night Leake tried to get guys to chase and they didn't, he'd get behind 3-1, 2-0 etc. However, he'd fight right back with pitches in the zone that they still couldn't get a good stick on. VERY few balls were hard hit.

The reason why the Stros couldn't hit balls hard wasn't the fact many pitches were out of the zone, it's the fact Mike Leake's pitches all have serious action on them. Thus, even when the pitch is a strike... it still has late movement causing average contract.

Also, grouping Wagner with Leake is an insult to his entire family. We forgive you though :cool:

Side Note: Leake's command is so good, he's trying to get them to chase if they want too. It's pitching at its finest and we should all be glad he's a Red!

Sea Ray
04-29-2010, 10:56 AM
You kind of contradict yourself here. You say "he purposely throws it out of the zone" after you say "he will walk guys."

While I understand your argument after watching guys lay off Leake's stuff outside of the zone, I think your underestimating his command. Consistently last night Leake tried to get guys to chase and they didn't, he'd get behind 3-1, 2-0 etc. However, he'd fight right back with pitches in the zone that they still couldn't get a good stick on. VERY few balls were hard hit.

The reason why the Stros couldn't hit balls hard wasn't the fact many pitches were out of the zone, it's the fact Mike Leake's pitches all have serious action on them. Thus, even when the pitch is a strike... it still has late movement causing average contract.

Also, grouping Wagner with Leake is an insult to his entire family. We forgive you though :cool:


I think we're on the same page. My point is that is if guys like Michael Bourn laid off those 3-2 pitches way out of the strike zone it'd have been a different game. I agree with you that Leake has the command and moxy to adjust. Let's hope we're right. I think he's already adjusted because he's found that major league hitters will lay off a lot more pitches than PAC 10 hitters thus his 7 walk game. These adjustments will need to continue.

forfreelin04
04-29-2010, 10:56 AM
"Pitchability and all that"? Without his ability to locate, throw a variety of breaking stuff and work out of jams, he isn't Mike Leake. It's not like he's blowing away guys with stuff over the plate.

Velocity and movement are nothing without command. Being able to command pitches with a lot of movement requires understanding one's delivery well and being able to repeat. Because Leake is smart and an exceptional athlete for a pitcher, he can do that. And he doesn't get rattled. He's got stuff, yeah, but a lot of guys have stuff. It's his ability to manipulate it that makes him who he is.

Great point Lollipop!

I love Leake's windup. Simplicity. The easier a windup can be perfected, the easier it is to throw strikes.

Certainly, there are exceptions to the rule, but why complicate things? A pitcher must repeat his windup at least 100 times in a well pitched game, you might as well keep it simple.

If you wonder where Cueto's command went and why Bailey simplified his windup, there is your reason.

forfreelin04
04-29-2010, 11:02 AM
I think we're on the same page. My point is that is if guys like Michael Borne laid off those 3-2 pitches way out of the strike zone it'd have been a different game. I agree with you that Leake has the command and moxy to adjust. Let's hope we're right. I think he's already adjusted because he's found that major league hitters will lay off a lot more pitches than PAC 10 hitters thus his 7 walk game. These adjustments will need to continue.

Borne was put to sleep by the rookie. Which is sort of amazing considering the "ace" had a real hard time with Borne the previous day.

We still have plenty of starts to see how he progresses. It will be fun. :beerme: I hope your enjoying it as much as me.

It's exciting to watch a Reds pitcher who is actually quite polished. Bailey and Cueto will learn alot from Leake. The first thing they need to learn is "cooler heads always prevail." I was at the game last Saturday and saw Cueto walk as slowly as possible back to the Reds dugout after his baserunning gaffe. He proceeded to turn a quality start into a bad one by bringing his gaffe out onto the mound with him.

Big Klu
04-29-2010, 11:19 AM
Agree. This is the first time I have got to sit down and watch his entire outing, and the movement is beautiful. I did not like the number of hitters he got behind, which did not lead to walks last night, but has thus far.

On another note, I vote for a nickname contest, since "Cool Hand Leake" is annoying me. My submission is "Take a Leake"

I nominate, "Kelly Leake".

http://b3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01316/38/70/1316010783_s.jpg

Brutus
04-29-2010, 11:25 AM
Honestly, as crazy as it is to say, I see a lot of Greg Maddux in this kid. He goes about his business, is smaller in stature, has a lot of movement on his pitches - especially to right-handed hitters and throws a heavy ball. He doesn't have the pinpoint accuracy of Maddux (though few do), but his command for his age, despite being squeezed a great deal early on by the umpires, is pretty impressive.

I'm not predicting a Maddux-like Hall of Fame career, but I see a lot of ability in him. He's tailor-made for the ballpark he pitches in. That's for sure.

traderumor
04-29-2010, 11:26 AM
You kind of contradict yourself here. You say "he purposely throws it out of the zone" after you say "he will walk guys."

While I understand your argument after watching guys lay off Leake's stuff outside of the zone, I think your underestimating his command. Consistently last night Leake tried to get guys to chase and they didn't, he'd get behind 3-1, 2-0 etc. However, he'd fight right back with pitches in the zone that they still couldn't get a good stick on. VERY few balls were hard hit.

The reason why the Stros couldn't hit balls hard wasn't the fact many pitches were out of the zone, it's the fact Mike Leake's pitches all have serious action on them. Thus, even when the pitch is a strike... it still has late movement causing average contract.

Also, grouping Wagner with Leake is an insult to his entire family. We forgive you though :cool:

Side Note: Leake's command is so good, he's trying to get them to chase if they want too. It's pitching at its finest and we should all be glad he's a Red!If his command is so good, and we know that getting ahead in the count is desirable for any pitcher, at any level, at any time, then why would you explain away his getting behind the hitters with "he came back and got them"? While true for last night, if they can't hit it in the zone or out of the zone, wouldn't in the zone be the most desirable, in theory, since getting ahead of hitters is a given as desirable? Or is he snookering 'em with reverse psychology?

George Anderson
04-29-2010, 11:29 AM
I think it's time to say that the FO got this one right, not just in the drafting, but also in bringing him north from ST. :thumbup:

Besides Walt, I don't know exactly who within the organization did the research or made the decision on who the Reds should have drafted but lets hope to God that they are heavily involved this year also.

forfreelin04
04-29-2010, 11:46 AM
If his command is so good, and we know that getting ahead in the count is desirable for any pitcher, at any level, at any time, then why would you explain away his getting behind the hitters with "he came back and got them"? While true for last night, if they can't hit it in the zone or out of the zone, wouldn't in the zone be the most desirable, in theory, since getting ahead of hitters is a given as desirable? Or is he snookering 'em with reverse psychology?

I was hoping someone would catch that. Good question.

While Leake does have great movement in the zone, a pitch out of the zone that is hit will provide better results for the pitcher compared to one in the zone. (Reason why bad ball hitters are few) Simple law of averages. With command like his, Leake can tell hitters "hey you want to hit it out of the zone? well here it is, hit it."

While it is preferable to get ahead early in the count with strikes, Leake's command is so good, this doesn't really apply to him like it does to someone like Bailey. Bailey has a great fastball, but mostly due to the speed rather then the movement. He also doesn't command it particularly well this early in his career. Due to this, you'll see Bailey perform well when he's getting ahead early in the count. You'll also see Ramon or Hanigan setup off the plate or up out of the zone with two strikes, trying to get hitters to chase a fastball. This makes sense because Bailey's fastball is pretty straight.

Certainly, there will be times where Leake feels his stuff is so good "in the zone" that he can just attack. However, he's still young and weary of his strikes becoming flat in the zone. (lacking movement) You look at a guy like Harang who has lived off of movement in the zone.... it can quickly turn away from you without proper grip, mechanics, and speed.

Think of "he came back and got them" as if Leake is allowing the hitters to get themselves out early in the count. When they decide not too, he comes back and gets them his way. It's cerebral pitching and it works at any level. However, it takes a special command of at least two pitches to do it in the Major Leagues.

You could call it a bit of "reverse pyschology"; Maddux was the best at it. You have a hitter up their thinking with the pitcher, the pitcher typically wins. A pitcher has time to think, the batter doesn't. (Another reason to support a quick worker on the mound)

Hoosier Red
04-29-2010, 12:56 PM
When he runs into trouble, though, I have a feeling it won't be the kind of trouble folks in Reds' land are accustomed to. This kid has so much poise, so much moxy that it almost feels like he can work himself out of jams others typically can't.

I just love how he's around the plate. Love his movement. Love the heavy balls he throws. Kid is a pitcher.

We said the same thing about Volquez in his first season. Regression to the mean is a bad mother and when you put as many guys on Leake has, you're tempting fate. Was happy to see his walks down last night. The only two were "semi" intentional to put the force out back into play if I remember correctly.

Caveat Emperor
04-29-2010, 01:04 PM
Kid's got game. I whiffed completely on my predictions about him. No idea where this train is going, but the ride is a lot of fun.

dougdirt
04-29-2010, 01:08 PM
We said the same thing about Volquez in his first season. Regression to the mean is a bad mother and when you put as many guys on Leake has, you're tempting fate. Was happy to see his walks down last night. The only two were "semi" intentional to put the force out back into play if I remember correctly.
Of course its early and we don't really have a 'mean' to work back to just yet. He had two starts where he was lucky to allow what he did. In his most recent two starts, he hasn't been lucky at all and his WHIP is 1.15. A little early to suggest someone goes back to the 'mean' with 4 starts. First two starts, bad but lucky. Last two starts, very good and not lucky (14ip, 3 walks, 10K, 71% GB rate). Now if Leake goes back to doing what he did in the first two starts with the walks, yes, he will regress to a mean. But if he continues along the path set up by his last two starts, there will be no regression to the mean.

Brutus
04-29-2010, 01:16 PM
We said the same thing about Volquez in his first season. Regression to the mean is a bad mother and when you put as many guys on Leake has, you're tempting fate. Was happy to see his walks down last night. The only two were "semi" intentional to put the force out back into play if I remember correctly.

I personally never said that about Volquez. Actually he strikes me as a kind of guy that has to stay ahead of hitters to be successful. While he's got more overpowering kind of stuff than Leake, his command leaves a lot to be desired at times. I don't worry about Leake's command in the slightest, and his ability to get ground balls will get him out of a lot of jams with the DP.

membengal
04-29-2010, 02:04 PM
Kid's got game. I whiffed completely on my predictions about him. No idea where this train is going, but the ride is a lot of fun.

Hey CE, glad to have you aboard. Completely agree that this particular ride appears to be a ton of fun. I am looking forward to the journey. His head just seems to be in the right place to maximize his assortment of pitches.

Falls City Beer
04-29-2010, 02:09 PM
Def. looking forward to seeing him pitch. A real game that is, not just clips.

WebScorpion
04-30-2010, 01:03 AM
I'm really impressed with Mike Leake and I don't think the comparison to a young Greg Maddux is way off. Maddux was famous for doing the little things that gave him every advantage he could find...fielding, hitting, bunting, pickoff move, etc. Working quickly not only gives him an advantage, but it keeps his fielders rested and alert while doing the opposite to the opponents defenders. He just does everything in a no bones, coming-right-at-you style and nine times out of ten he's going to beat you. I would compare him to Tom Browning, but I really think his ceiling is higher than that. I can't imagine what his control will be like with 300-400 innings under his belt. :eek: It's going to be fun to watch! :thumbup: With him, Rolen, Votto, Bruce, Chapman, Stubbs, Volquez, Bailey, and Cueto I'm feeling very lucky to be a Reds fan. :D

membengal
05-03-2010, 04:28 PM
Bump. Just because it is a Mike Leake night. Hope it goes as well as his previous four efforts. Or even better.

Always Red
05-03-2010, 08:31 PM
Honestly, as crazy as it is to say, I see a lot of Greg Maddux in this kid. He goes about his business, is smaller in stature, has a lot of movement on his pitches - especially to right-handed hitters and throws a heavy ball. He doesn't have the pinpoint accuracy of Maddux (though few do), but his command for his age, despite being squeezed a great deal early on by the umpires, is pretty impressive.


this^

I know, it sounds nearly sacrilegious, but I think the same.

It took Maddux a few years to gain that control, and that, in turn, got the umpires on board. There were more than a few years when he and Glavine got the biggest strike zones in the league- all because they proved, over and over, that they could hit their spots.

We cannot afford to have Leake be the ace, not this year. The Reds need to be careful with his innings and pitches, and not let him get anywhere near 200 innings, probably more in the 175 range, but that's just a non-scientific guess. He's not trained yet to go longer than that.

membengal
05-03-2010, 09:10 PM
Well the Reds sure give him run support and play defense behind him like he's their "ace". Which is to say, not much of either.

Kid's got game. His teammates? Not so much.

Falls City Beer
05-03-2010, 09:39 PM
Mike Leake might be the best starting pitcher, but the Reds' MVP, by a long shot, is Arthur Rhodes.

fearofpopvol1
05-03-2010, 09:44 PM
6 IP, 4 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 4 K...season ERA, 2.94.

There ain't too many pitchers through 5 starts who are pitching better than Leake as he's gone deep into every game he's pitched. At least not in the NL.

Will M
05-03-2010, 10:25 PM
another nice game by Leake. its been enjoyable to watch him pitch.

nice to see him out after 6 IP. the team needs to watch his pitch counts/innings closely. rule #1 - don't get him hurt

Hoosier Red
05-03-2010, 10:28 PM
Of course its early and we don't really have a 'mean' to work back to just yet. He had two starts where he was lucky to allow what he did. In his most recent two starts, he hasn't been lucky at all and his WHIP is 1.15. A little early to suggest someone goes back to the 'mean' with 4 starts. First two starts, bad but lucky. Last two starts, very good and not lucky (14ip, 3 walks, 10K, 71% GB rate). Now if Leake goes back to doing what he did in the first two starts with the walks, yes, he will regress to a mean. But if he continues along the path set up by his last two starts, there will be no regression to the mean.

That's true, it appears the mean he's regressed to is the number of walks going down.

traderumor
05-03-2010, 10:55 PM
Mike Leake is a pitcher. And he's gonna go deep before the year is over at the plate.

Cyclone792
05-03-2010, 11:10 PM
Loved what I saw from Leake tonight, and that's two straight nice starts. He gave up more fly balls tonight than I want to see, but he kept the Mets in the park and only walked one batter. My concerns at the beginning of the season were primarily if he'd be able to adjust to the five man rotation at the big league level. So far, he's looking good.

Moving forward, however, I'm still a bit concerned about potential workload through the bulk of the season and into the latter months. It's much easier to monitor workload in the minors where proper development is the first priority. That much said, I do have more confidence in Bryan Price to take charge with Leake's handling than I did with Dick Pole, and hopefully Price and the staff do what's necessary to keep Leake running smooth and strong throughout the year.

Screwball
05-03-2010, 11:14 PM
On another note, I vote for a nickname contest, since "Cool Hand Leake" is annoying me. My submission is "Take a Leake"

Cool Hand Leake annoys me as well. I'm not sure why we need to nickname him anyways. Leake by itself is just fine, and everything else just seems too forced right now. Maybe that's just me though.

But yeah, he's making the jump from college to the Majors look insanely easy. The Reds' brass deserves a truckload of credit for nailing this one. It certainly wasn't an easy decision to make (even a few here on RZ were ready to burn them at the stake), but they picked the guy they thought gave the Reds the best chance to win and it's already paying early dividends. Kudos to Walt and company.

SMcGavin
05-03-2010, 11:21 PM
The Reds' brass deserves a truckload of credit for nailing this one. It certainly wasn't an easy decision to make (even a few here on RZ were ready to burn them at the stake), but they picked the guy they thought gave the Reds the best chance to win and it's already paying early dividends. Kudos to Walt and company.

Yep. I couldn't believe they were going to have him skip the minors entirely, and I wasn't sure he'd last two months before heading back to AAA. I was wrong. He's been very good. Nice job Walt. Got to give the Reds' draft crew credit too.

Homer Bailey
05-03-2010, 11:27 PM
Yep. I couldn't believe they were going to have him skip the minors entirely, and I wasn't sure he'd last two months before heading back to AAA. I was wrong. He's been very good. Nice job Walt. Got to give the Reds' draft crew credit too.

That makes two of us.

Caveat Emperor
05-04-2010, 01:24 AM
Moving forward, however, I'm still a bit concerned about potential workload through the bulk of the season and into the latter months. It's much easier to monitor workload in the minors where proper development is the first priority. That much said, I do have more confidence in Bryan Price to take charge with Leake's handling than I did with Dick Pole, and hopefully Price and the staff do what's necessary to keep Leake running smooth and strong throughout the year.

The Reds, if they aren't already discussed it internally, should be considering skipping Leake in the rotation sometime in the next few weeks -- even if that means bringing up someone like Matt Maloney to spot-start.

Right now, Leake's on pace to throw around 200 IP, which strikes me as a terrible idea regardless of how effective he's been. If they don't start limiting his innings now, the organization could be forced into shutting him down in August / September right when they might need him the most for a possible wild card push (getting ahead of myself, I know).

OnBaseMachine
05-04-2010, 01:33 AM
From John Fay's blog:


Leake is pitching in his first professional season. You don’t want him to throw 200 innings, as a top starter will. He threw 27 2/3 innings in April. That puts him on a 162-inning pace. That would be fine, but remember he didn’t make his first start until April 11.

“We’ve talked about it,” Walt Jocketty said. “We’re going to have to monitor his innings. We’ll watch his pitch counts. He doesn’t throw a lot of pitches.

“We’re trying to get him extra days here and there. We’ve got to be careful.”


http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/05/02/leake-problem/

reds44
05-04-2010, 03:10 AM
Crazy/off the wall idea:

I'm not sure if you could do it with the 25 man roster, but what if the Reds (eventually) called up Chapman and kind of used an alternating 5th starter deal to keep both of their innings down?

Topcat
05-04-2010, 04:18 AM
Mike Leake is a pitcher. And he's gonna go deep before the year is over at the plate.

Leake is this years beyond expected player on the Reds. He Joins Phillips, and Hamilton and Volquez , Votto on previous seasons as the surprise impact guys on the season.

GAC
05-04-2010, 04:24 AM
Really like what I am seeing from this kid SO FAR.

Question: are the other Red's pitchers watching how this kid goes about his business? Because they should be taking notes. ;)

TheNext44
05-04-2010, 04:25 AM
Crazy/off the wall idea:

I'm not sure if you could do it with the 25 man roster, but what if the Reds (eventually) called up Chapman and kind of used an alternating 5th starter deal to keep both of their innings down?

If the Reds option Leake to the Minors, and not have him pitch there for just two weeks, they will delay his free agency clock by a year, and keep his innings down. That's one way they could do what you're suggesting, which is an idea that I like.

reds44
05-04-2010, 04:32 AM
If the Reds option Leake to the Minors, and not have him pitch there for just two weeks, they will delay his free agency clock by a year, and keep his innings down. That's one way they could do what you're suggesting, which is an idea that I like.
This would be a good idea, especially when you consider options are on a yearly basis, and not an every trip to the minors.

You could just keep shutteling them up and down every two weeks (or maybe a little more depending how the rotation falls).

Lets say it's 15 days, or more importantly three turns in the rotation. You can have (obviously) the guy in the majors make his three starts, and then decide what to do with the guy in the minors.

You can have him not pitch at all (which I'm not sure I like) or make one or two starts.

Or even if you don't want to it with Chapman, you could even do it with Wood who Leake barely beat out for the 5th starter spot in ST. Sending Leake down for whatever reason (even if it totally makes sense) is going to be a tough sell to the fan base, though.

BearcatShane
05-04-2010, 04:36 AM
I'm not saying they should let Leake throw 210 innings, but he has a very smooth delivery and he seems to have a pretty good amount of stress free innings. Could the Reds maybe, possibly let Leake throw a few more innings than what might be suggested for a Volquez or Bailey type pitcher?

Chip R
05-04-2010, 09:25 AM
It's going to be real difficult to shut down Leake for any length of time. Even skipping him in the rotation is going to be tough since he pitches so well.

bucksfan2
05-04-2010, 09:29 AM
If the Reds option Leake to the Minors, and not have him pitch there for just two weeks, they will delay his free agency clock by a year, and keep his innings down. That's one way they could do what you're suggesting, which is an idea that I like.

If they would do so it would make sense to do it around the All Star break. But I just don't see that happening. I think it would do more to irritate Leake than anything else. Granted it is a business first, but you still have to look after your people. Skipping a start or two of Leake's make sense, but to ship him down the the minors is a slap in the face.

If Leake does begin to struggle over the course of 3-4 starts then yea I would send him down to the minors to skip a start or two but also to get back into the groove.

Sea Ray
05-04-2010, 11:03 AM
Leake is proud of the fact that he's one of a handful of players who never played a game in the minors. He'd get mighty ticked if he was sent out for non performance reasons. The delay in free agency status wouldn't sit well either. I don't think that is the right approach for this guy

Chip R
05-04-2010, 11:10 AM
He'd get mighty ticked if he was sent out for non performance reasons.


The MLBPA might have something to say about that as well. Sending a guy down for non-performance reasons is a good way to pick a fight with them. And their track record is pretty good. Even if he does go down, those pitches he throws for LOU count too.

Caveat Emperor
05-04-2010, 11:46 AM
It's going to be real difficult to shut down Leake for any length of time. Even skipping him in the rotation is going to be tough since he pitches so well.

It'll be difficult if the games are meaning something -- the concern I have is that "meaning something" might be different to Dusty (who is managing for a contract in 2011) than it is to the organization.

Walt needs to be the one who makes this call, and he needs to be thinking about it now.

TRF
05-04-2010, 12:03 PM
color me astounded he's been pitching this well. I hope he keeps it up, but will be interested in his first start against a team he's faced once this year. I don't know what team that will be, but it will be very telling on his ability to adjust in game.

membengal
05-04-2010, 12:07 PM
It will be this weekend against the Cubs.

HeatherC1212
05-04-2010, 12:09 PM
Didn't the Rays move David Price to the bullpen a few years ago (or keep him in the bullpen that first year) in order to limit his innings? Why can't the Reds do something like that with Mike Leake later this season? He would still be pitching but not as often and the inning count could be better maintained especially when the rosters expand in September. Just a thought and add me to the growing list of people very impressed with how Mike has done in his starts so far this year. :)

*apologies if this has all ready been discussed here (haven't gotten caught up on the board yet)*

Chip R
05-04-2010, 12:11 PM
It'll be difficult if the games are meaning something -- the concern I have is that "meaning something" might be different to Dusty (who is managing for a contract in 2011) than it is to the organization.

Walt needs to be the one who makes this call, and he needs to be thinking about it now.

Being around .500 means the Reds will still be in contention - at least for a wild card. Even if they are several games below .500, they are going to want to do their darndest to get back there. That means putting one of your best pitchers out there every 5 days.

We may be worried about nothing though. The l;ast 4 years, Bronson has averaged 34 starts for the Reds. That's including the complete games and the 1-3 inning blowouts. I don't think Leake is going to get anywhere close to 34 starts but for argument's sake let's say he does. At ~7 innings per game that's 238 IP. That's obviously too much. Now let's go the other way. Let's say he starts 20 games. At ~7 IP per game that's 140 IP. I think that's acceptable. Now let's add 3 more starts on to that. That's another 21 innings which would bring his total up to 161 IP. I really don't think that's an extreme total for someone of his age.

The time when we have to worry is if everything comes together and the Reds are in it till the end, that they jury-rig the rotation so Leake starts on 3 days rest.

medford
05-04-2010, 12:47 PM
I think I heard yesterday on Lance's show that Leake pitched 141.2 innings last year at ASU. Add in the AFL time, and I'll guess (someone give me/us the right number of innings in the AFL if you've got them he pitched about 15-20 innings in the AFL, giving him a total of 155-160 innings. Allow for a 25-30 inning bump this year (do you need to take away ST since I assume they have little to no ST in college?) and he could throw approx. 180-185 innings. If you take away some ST time (say the 15 innings from AFL) that would mean he could comfortable handle 165-170 innings this season w/o concern about a serious workload increase.

I'm going to assume he'll average about 6 and half innings per start, but we'll bump it up to 7 for simplicity and he could make about 24 starts. He's made 5 to date and there are 136 games left in the season, or 27 times thru the rotation. That means he'd have to skip approx 8 starts if he averages 7 innings in order to not seriously increase his workload. Keep him to about 6 innings per start, that means he could make approx 28 starts this season and skip 4 starts in the rotation.

To me, the solution would be to take as you go along. If there is an off day, or a serious of them, push back his start to the 5th day, no matter when he's due to start. Coming off of college last year, I would think he'd be more apt to handle not pitching for a week than other guys that have grown used to a 5 day schedule. If you find yourself way out of contention in September, shut him down for the year. If you're in contention, throw caution to the wind and go for a playoff birth this year and deal w/ the potential injuries next year if they pop up. A playoff birth would likely go a long way to adding to the season ticket base, which would allow Bob to increase the payroll in measure.

TheNext44
05-04-2010, 12:59 PM
The MLBPA might have something to say about that as well. Sending a guy down for non-performance reasons is a good way to pick a fight with them. And their track record is pretty good. Even if he does go down, those pitches he throws for LOU count too.

I can guarantee that there will be a time this season where sending Leake down to AAA can be explained as being for performance reasons, whether that is the real reason or not. One bad start is all it takes.

And if he gets sent down to AAA, put him in the pen there. That will limit his pitches.

Also, this could be done at anytime in the next 4 years and still delay his free agency.

One other option is to not worry about it at all. If he keeps pitching this way, lock him up in the next few years. He'll be worth it.

Chip R
05-04-2010, 01:38 PM
I can guarantee that there will be a time this season where sending Leake down to AAA can be explained as being for performance reasons, whether that is the real reason or not. One bad start is all it takes.

Sure, they could explain it like that but no one in their right mind's going to buy that. If it goes to an arbitrator, the MLBPA is going to ask the Reds why they didn' send Cueto or Volquez down when they had one bad start. All that's going happen is the Reds will lose, Leake will still be in the majors and he's going to be angry with the Reds for trying to pull that crap. He'll remember that come arbitration and free agency time. And just try signing him to a long term deal after doing that. It's also going to make the Reds look bad to other players and to their own. No good will come of that, I promise you.

Homer Bailey
05-04-2010, 01:55 PM
If the Reds option Leake to the Minors, and not have him pitch there for just two weeks, they will delay his free agency clock by a year, and keep his innings down. That's one way they could do what you're suggesting, which is an idea that I like.

Not his free agency clock, but arbitration clock. At the current pace, he would be eligible for arbitration after the end of next season, but still be under Reds control for the following 4 years.

Benihana
05-06-2010, 04:38 PM
Scouting rumblings from Jayson Stark's column today:


• On Mike Leake: "He really commands the fastball, and he's got a very late, live fastball. He's got that Greg Maddux drift-back pitch that he throws in to left-handers and breaks back, and that he'll run in on right-handers. And he doesn't have any fear. He's going to pitch in the big leagues for a long time. He might not ever throw hard enough to be great. But every team in baseball would like to have that guy in their rotation."

bucksfan2
05-07-2010, 10:06 AM
• On Mike Leake: "He really commands the fastball, and he's got a very late, live fastball. He's got that Greg Maddux drift-back pitch that he throws in to left-handers and breaks back, and that he'll run in on right-handers. And he doesn't have any fear. He's going to pitch in the big leagues for a long time. He might not ever throw hard enough to be great. But every team in baseball would like to have that guy in their rotation."

Its nice to recognize Leake but I don't think this blurb is accurate. I have been very impressed with not only Leake the pitcher but also his velocity. He can dial it up to 92-94 when he needs to. I just see Leake as a very smart pitcher. He would rather throw 2 pitches, get a hitter off balance, and get a weak out. He has shown the ability to get a strike out in a jam and has looked pretty good in doing so. I just think he would much rather limit his pitches and go deeper into the game than be a flame thrower but only pitch 6 innings.

OnBaseMachine
05-07-2010, 03:55 PM
Leake’s sinker is getting strikes, if few whiffs. His slider and changeup have been excellent, getting batters to swing and miss at rates well above the major league average. Those hitters are having a hard time laying off the slider and change: they have swung at the slider 54.1 percent (47.7% MLB average) and the changeup 60 percent (48.1% MLB average). The less-utilized curve and cutter aren’t hitting the mark or fooling opponents.

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/a-mike-leake-update/

RedsManRick
05-09-2010, 02:30 PM
Ace or not, Leake sure is a joy to watch. I've compared him Maddux and Tim Hudson, but I think maybe Mark Buerhle is the better comp. Works extremely fast, gets grounders, and doesn't walk people. That's been Buehrle's formula and it's worked extremely well for him.

membengal
05-09-2010, 02:35 PM
9 groundball outs, 1 flyball out, and 6 Ks through six innings for Leake so far today on only 68 pitches, 46 which have been for strikes.

HokieRed
05-09-2010, 03:31 PM
Pretty obviously yes.

Tom Servo
05-09-2010, 03:35 PM
I love this kid.

membengal
05-09-2010, 03:35 PM
Great game his second time around against the Cubs. Bad luck in the 7th, was glad to see the Reds come off the mat and get him the win.

Love watching the kid pitch.

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 03:39 PM
Mike Leake pitched an awesome game today. I thought he was going to throw a shutout there for a while. He was one strike away from having a shutout through 7 IP with under 80 pitches but he caught too much of the plate on the 1-2 pitch to Byrd. This was the second time he's faced the Cubs and he looked even sharper today than the first time.

I was so glad to see Votto belt that 3-run HR and give Leake a much deserved win.

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 03:49 PM
By the way, it's a joke that Mike Leake isn't getting more recognition than he is. Can you imagine if this was Strasburg instead of Leake? As good as Strasburg is, he'll be lucky to start his Major League career out half as good as Leake has.

VR
05-09-2010, 03:52 PM
By the way, it's a joke that Mike Leake isn't getting more recognition than he is. Can you imagine if this was Strasburg instead of Leake? As good as Strasburg is, he'll be lucky to start his Major League career out half as good as Leake has.

Indeed. I don't even think reality has sunk in with RZ either.

How many other draft boards are saying their team should have drafted Mike Leake instead of player 'x'.

At this point, he's one of the best draft stories ever for the Reds.

HeatherC1212
05-09-2010, 04:01 PM
By the way, it's a joke that Mike Leake isn't getting more recognition than he is. Can you imagine if this was Strasburg instead of Leake? As good as Strasburg is, he'll be lucky to start his Major League career out half as good as Leake has.

ITA. This kid NEVER pitched a lick in the minors, he's now 3-0, he's shut down some tough teams, and he's even had a few hits here and there. This is pretty amazing what he's been doing this season and I'm astonished that it hasn't gotten more attention. Maybe it's better for him to stay under the radar though because then he'll keep sneaking up on all the other teams, LOL ;)

BTW-I think Mike's next start falls on Saturday which just happens to be the Civil Rights Game against the Cardinals. I'm glad I have a ticket because that should be an awesome game! :thumbup:

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 04:01 PM
If they were to redo the 2009 draft tomorrow, Mike Leake would probably go #2 overall, and a few teams would possibly consider him #1 overall, IMO.

reds44
05-09-2010, 04:02 PM
He's gotta be favorite for ROY right now, no?

_Sir_Charles_
05-09-2010, 04:05 PM
He's gotta be favorite for ROY right now, no?

Not if you follow the media at all. I'm sure it's still Heyward. And because we are Cincy and they're not...the Cards' Garcia and Freese will also probably be ranked ahead of Mike. Right or wrong (and it's wrong) it's still how it probably stands.

HeatherC1212
05-09-2010, 04:07 PM
He's gotta be favorite for ROY right now, no?

It depends on how Heyward (that kid in Atlanta) does this year too. I'd be surprised if he doesn't start getting mentioned for it after today's outing though.

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 04:10 PM
He's gotta be favorite for ROY right now, no?

As much as I would love to see Leake win the Rookie of the Year, Jason Heyward is off to an incredible start too. He's currently hitting .291/.410/.616 - 1.026 OPS and is on pace for 46 home runs.

reds44
05-09-2010, 04:10 PM
Jesus, I didn't realize how good Heyward has been this year.

.291/.410/.616/1.026

Forget what I said about Leake being the favorite for ROY.

reds44
05-09-2010, 04:11 PM
As much as I would love to see Leake win the Rookie of the Year, Jason Heyward is off to an incredible start too. He's currently hitting .291/.410/.616 - 1.026 OPS and is on pace for 46 home runs.
Yeah. For some reason I had the impression he was off to a slow start. Nevermind lol.

Leake could end up being the Reds all-star at this rate, though.

_Sir_Charles_
05-09-2010, 04:41 PM
Yeah. For some reason I had the impression he was off to a slow start. Nevermind lol.

Leake could end up being the Reds all-star at this rate, though.

Actually, I think we might end up with more than one all star this year. I think right now, Cordero & Votto are virtual locks. I wouldn't be shocked to see another one too depending on how things go the next month or so. I'd love to see Bruce start to tear it up. Or even Brandon.

Tom Servo
05-09-2010, 04:55 PM
Only a month in, it's still far to early to have a good idea of who will get ROY.

Ron Madden
05-09-2010, 05:03 PM
It's still early but Leake looks like the best starting pitcher on the staff by a long shot, so far.

KoryMac5
05-09-2010, 05:08 PM
Leake has given this team something it has had in awhile. A legitimate skid stopper, he is definitely someone you can count on to come up big after a few shaky starts by others. Hopefully Homer watched Leake today and learned how to work quickly.

HeatherC1212
05-09-2010, 06:35 PM
I can't believe he pitched so great today against the Cubs, who were seeing him for the second time, all while not feeling well overall. That's impressive and shows that he's a darn good fighter. Hopefully he's able to get some rest now and start feeling better. I cannot wait to see him pitch this coming weekend! :D

savafan
05-09-2010, 06:57 PM
3-0, 3.10 ERA in 6 starts. Has a Reds rookie pitcher ever started off this well?

Will M
05-09-2010, 07:10 PM
3-0, 3.10 ERA in 6 starts. Has a Reds rookie pitcher ever started off this well?

1970 Wayne Simpson 176 IP, 14 wins vs 3 losses, ERA+ 139

1967 Gray Nolan 226 IP, 14 wins vs 8 losses, ERA+ 147

Both had careers shortened by injuries

mth123
05-09-2010, 07:19 PM
1970 Wayne Simpson 176 IP, 14 wins vs 3 losses, ERA+ 139

1967 Gray Nolan 226 IP, 14 wins vs 8 losses, ERA+ 147

Both had careers shortened by injuries

Ridden hard at too young an age. Caution.

BCubb2003
05-09-2010, 07:37 PM
Wayne Simpson pitched 10 complete games his rookie year, and Gary Nolan had 8. It was certainly a different time.

HokieRed
05-09-2010, 08:06 PM
1970 Wayne Simpson 176 IP, 14 wins vs 3 losses, ERA+ 139

1967 Gray Nolan 226 IP, 14 wins vs 8 losses, ERA+ 147

Both had careers shortened by injuries


Interesting names to bring up. It's important to distinguish them, however. Simpson came up at 21, finished 36-31 lifetime with a 1.448 WHIP. Nolan went on to pitch 10 seasons, was 110-70, with a lifetime WHIP of 1.145. In 1972 he went 15-5 with a 1.99 ERA over 176 innings and an ERA+ of 162. He was just shy of 19 went he came up. Simpson had the potential to be a solid major leaguer, Nolan was probably as talented as any young pitcher the Reds have ever had.

Degenerate39
05-09-2010, 08:21 PM
Leake may be the best draft pick the Reds have had in a long time

Will M
05-09-2010, 08:28 PM
I was born in 1964. I don't remember Simpson at all except for people older than me who said what a shame it was that he got injured.

i do remember Nolan. i remember people saying he was not as good in the mid 1970s as he was earlier (due to injuries) . he was still good enough to be a key member of the BRM rotations of 1975 & 1976.

Don Gullet was another Reds pitching phenom in the early 1970s. ERA+ of 172 in 77 IP in 1970 & an ERA+ of 124 in 217 IP in 1971. He too had a career shortened by injuries (torn rotator cuff i believe).

back in the day certain injuries simply ended your career. orthopedic surgery has make great strides since the 1970s.

RedsManRick
05-09-2010, 08:31 PM
Interesting names to bring up. It's important to distinguish them, however. Simpson came up at 21, finished 36-31 lifetime with a 1.448 WHIP. Nolan went on to pitch 10 seasons, was 110-70, with a lifetime WHIP of 1.145. In 1972 he went 15-5 with a 1.99 ERA over 176 innings and an ERA+ of 162. He was just shy of 19 went he came up. Simpson had the potential to be a solid major leaguer, Nolan was probably as talented as any young pitcher the Reds have ever had.

In my time as a Reds fan, I don't ever remember watching a pitcher who looked so comfortable, like he's just playing catch, as Leake does. Unlike Cueto or Bailey, who you can see tense up and overthrow, Leake just keeps on keeping on.

TheNext44
05-09-2010, 08:36 PM
Charlie Leibrandt and Mike Lacoss had pretty good rookie years, if I remember correctly, but I don't think they were this good.

Tom Browning won 20 games his rookie year. I'd be happy if Leake had his career when all said and done.

Will M
05-09-2010, 08:48 PM
Charlie Leibrandt and Mike Lacoss had pretty good rookie years, if I remember correctly, but I don't think they were this good.

Tom Browning won 20 games his rookie year. I'd be happy if Leake had his career when all said and done.

Tom Browning was a fine pitcher for his era. Back in the day it was ok to be a flyball/strikeout pitcher. Tom was pretty good. So was Sid Fernandez. Now with smaller parks Tom would get destroyed. Can you imagine the carnage at GABP? He'd be run out of town on a rail.

BCubb2003
05-09-2010, 09:13 PM
I've never seen a pitcher throw as many pitches at the knees as Mike Leake does. Each pitch seems to barely break the lower plane of the strike zone. (I also wonder if the hitters finally adjust to it in the sixth and seventh innings.)

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 09:22 PM
From C. Trent:


* Hernandez noted that Leake's done a good job of studying before his starts.

"He's prepared, he always prepares for the game. He's in here and he's in here prepapring the day before he's going to face them. He's 22 and he has a very good idea of what he's going to do before he goes out to the mound."


http://cnati.com/blogs/ctrent/2010/05/postgame-extra-5910.php

TheNext44
05-09-2010, 09:31 PM
From C. Trent:



http://cnati.com/blogs/ctrent/2010/05/postgame-extra-5910.php

Smart pitcher = Good pitcher.

The most prepared pitcher I can think of was Steve Stone. The night before he would pitch, he would visualize in his head a complete game against the lineup he was going to face, pitch by pitch. Even thinking about doing that makes my head hurt.

Hopefully, some of this rubs off on Bailey.

TheNext44
05-09-2010, 09:41 PM
Tom Browning was a fine pitcher for his era. Back in the day it was ok to be a flyball/strikeout pitcher. Tom was pretty good. So was Sid Fernandez. Now with smaller parks Tom would get destroyed. Can you imagine the carnage at GABP? He'd be run out of town on a rail.

Yeah, Browning would have had a hard time in GABP. It seemed like he gave up nothing but warning track flyballs. But he didn't walk many so the homers he gave up were mostly solo.

One thing he had in common with Leake was being a fast worker. He couldn't throw the next pitch quick enough. It was almost comical at times. Very aggressive and absolutely no fear. He only had average stuff, but he pitched like he was Nolan Ryan, pounding the strike zone, daring hitters to hit him.

RedsManRick
05-09-2010, 10:13 PM
Actually, I think we might end up with more than one all star this year. I think right now, Cordero & Votto are virtual locks. I wouldn't be shocked to see another one too depending on how things go the next month or so. I'd love to see Bruce start to tear it up. Or even Brandon.

1B is tough. Pujols is obviously the best and will go. Votto has been very go, arguably better than Pujols so far, but he's going to need to be notably better than at least 1 and maybe two of the Fielder, Howard, Gonzalez trio. So far so good though.

Luckily the Pirates have McCutchen playing very well; otherwise I'd be nervous about Garrett Jones hit for some power and getting on as their pity pick.

CrackerJack
05-10-2010, 01:35 AM
Daugherty comparing him to Maddux, which I guess is legit in terms of style and physical stature, but it's certainly premature to do anything more than be excited about his promise and indicators thus far.

Definitely the most interesting story of the year, like hitting the largest possible jackpot you can in the draft. I guess the Reds were due.

WMR
05-10-2010, 02:17 AM
Smart pitcher = Good pitcher.

The most prepared pitcher I can think of was Steve Stone. The night before he would pitch, he would visualize in his head a complete game against the lineup he was going to face, pitch by pitch. Even thinking about doing that makes my head hurt.

Hopefully, some of this rubs off on Bailey.

I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.

Caveat Emperor
05-10-2010, 08:11 AM
I've never seen a pitcher throw as many pitches at the knees as Mike Leake does. Each pitch seems to barely break the lower plane of the strike zone. (I also wonder if the hitters finally adjust to it in the sixth and seventh innings.)

I think there's a little of that, but I'd be shocked if the main reason wasn't simply that, as Leake tires, it becomes more difficult to throw 90%-effort pitches that move as effectively.

We're talking about a starter who prefers to work at lower velocities. When he fatigues, he has to labor to get the ball TO that lower velocity, which probably decreases effectiveness.

fearofpopvol1
05-11-2010, 01:10 AM
I really do wish there was more national media attention for the guy. He deserves it at this point.

OnBaseMachine
05-11-2010, 02:32 AM
Paul Daugherty - Leake brings Maddux to mind


This is what Greg Maddux did. This is how Maddux won 355 games. Maddux worked fast, threw strikes and changed speeds. His fastest fastball rarely topped 90-per. But he was Rembrandt when it came to throwing every pitch where he wanted, which was usually down and in, down and away, down and down. It’s ludicrous to compare Mike Leake (three wins) to Greg Maddux. But the eyes see what they see.

Seventy-four mile-an-hour breaking balls, taken for strikes on the low outside corner. Seventy-nine mile-an-hour sinkers, beaten to shortstop or second base. Eight-seven mile-an-hour “fastballs’’ taken down the middle. In, out, in again. Low in the strike zone, knee-high, sinkers that drop from the belt to the ankles.


http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100509/COL03/305090045/Doc++Leake+brings+Maddux+to+mind

Brutus
05-15-2010, 09:39 PM
Another terrific performance by Leake. Gave up 2 ER in 6 innings against the Cards with 5 K's.

Caveat Emperor
05-15-2010, 10:40 PM
After tonight, Leake is 4-0 and the Reds are 6-1 in games he pitches.

Draw your own conclusions.

Patrick Bateman
05-15-2010, 10:50 PM
After tonight, Leake is 4-0 and the Reds are 6-1 in games he pitches.

Draw your own conclusions.

That CE is man enough to admit when he is wrong?

Props, not many can admit their faults after such a short period of time. Hell, I still think Kearns can pull it around. Well, I may be right, but it took me 5 years.

toledodan
05-15-2010, 11:42 PM
all you have to do is keep the batter out of sync. mr. leake is doing that right now. lets hope it continues for another 10 plus seasons!:thumbup:

Matt700wlw
05-15-2010, 11:50 PM
There's really not much to say about this kid except WOW.

He's a stud.

BCubb2003
05-15-2010, 11:56 PM
The timing suggests that Strasburg will make his major-league debut against the Reds in Washington in early June. I suppose it's too much to ask of fate that he matches up with Leake for that game.

Ron Madden
05-15-2010, 11:57 PM
I have more faith in Leake than anyone in the rotation right now.

Will M
05-16-2010, 12:08 AM
Regarding tonight's game:
“I think my reputation is I try to get ahead early (in the count), I try to get early outs,” Leake said. “They were lifting the ball early instead of pounding it into the ground, so I had to make an adjustment. I threw different first pitches. I was getting fastball-happy, and I started mixing in different pitches.”

This kid is smart. Smart is underrated by some on the baseball field but is a good skill to have. Especially for a pitcher.

fearofpopvol1
05-16-2010, 12:12 AM
I love love love this kid.

HeatherC1212
05-16-2010, 12:13 AM
I loved watching Mike Leake pitch tonight. The strike zone was driving me batty through the whole game but he never let it bother him and kept pounding the ball in there. He just did his thing and I'm impressed that he handled Pujols so well too. He never gave Pujols a chance to hurt him. I was also impressed with how fast he reacts after he pitches the ball. He's always ready to field his position or back up whichever base he needs to at the time. Just a ton of poise for such a young guy and I am SO happy that I was there in person to see him get a hard earned win tonight. The Cards fans sitting next to me weren't so happy but oh well, LOL :p:

Superdude
05-16-2010, 12:30 AM
that quote's great. I was bracing myself for Leake's first big knock on the chin after the first inning or so, but he turned it right around and pitched a HUGE game.

VR
05-16-2010, 12:41 AM
I loved him running after Molina's bat after he made him look silly.

WMR
05-16-2010, 01:18 AM
I loved him running after Molina's bat after he made him look silly.

Nice kid. He'll K you and then go retrieve your bat for you as well. :D

HeatherC1212
05-16-2010, 01:43 AM
Isn't Molina one of the hardest guys to strike out? I thought I read that somewhere. Leake got him twice tonight. :thumbup:

RedsManRick
05-16-2010, 01:47 AM
Isn't Molina one of the hardest guys to strike out? I thought I read that somewhere. Leake got him twice tonight. :thumbup:

Yadi is extremely hard to strike out. He struck out just 39 times last year while walking 50 times. He strikes out once every games. Leake got him for a week's worth.

wheels
05-16-2010, 12:20 PM
I'm sure it's been mentioned, but his mannerisms are eerily similar to Bronson Arroyo's.

He's just kinda loosy goosy out there, plays the game with style.

Sea Ray
05-18-2010, 09:45 AM
As good as Leake has looked this year, he's not one of a kind. He's got a clone in Dodgers' starter John Ely. I've seen him pitch a few times including last night and he sure reminds me of Mike Leake. He's also in his early 20s and gets by on movement and location. The kid's from Miami U just up the road from Cincinnati too.

Brutus
05-18-2010, 10:12 AM
As good as Leake has looked this year, he's not one of a kind. He's got a clone in Dodgers' starter John Ely. I've seen him pitch a few times including last night and he sure reminds me of Mike Leake. He's also in his early 20s and gets by on movement and location. The kid's from Miami U just up the road from Cincinnati too.

Joe Torre has been raving about Ely's command. Now through 23 innings, Ely has 25 strikeouts and just three walks.

Granted, last night was against Houston where he went 7 innings, striking out 8, walking none and giving up just two runs. But his minor league numbers suggest he can sustain that.

Will M
05-19-2010, 02:08 AM
Sports illustrated article regarding young arms.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tom_verducci/05/18/stephen.strasburg/index.html?eref=writers

And here are Leake's pitch counts: 106, 99, 93, 105, 100, 91, 97. I am not expert but i like the Reds approach with Leake. with his easy sort of 90% effort motion it seems like 100 pitches isn't unreasonable. if Dusty sent him out there for all those 120+ games other young starters have thrown i think i'd lead the charge to run Dusty & Price out of town.

Redhook
05-19-2010, 08:42 AM
Sports illustrated article regarding young arms.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tom_verducci/05/18/stephen.strasburg/index.html?eref=writers

And here are Leake's pitch counts: 106, 99, 93, 105, 100, 91, 97. I am not expert but i like the Reds approach with Leake. with his easy sort of 90% effort motion it seems like 100 pitches isn't unreasonable. if Dusty sent him out there for all those 120+ games other young starters have thrown i think i'd lead the charge to run Dusty & Price out of town.

Speaking about pitch counts for Leake, I keep hearing on the radio that Leake won't be available come September. They'll have to shut him down due to his innings pitched. Is this true?

Last year he pitched just over 140 innings and it's said you're supposed to increase the pitch load by 10-15% so that leaves Leake pitching around 160 innings this year.

So, is it a given that he'll be done come September, or will they keep him in the rotation if they're in the pennant race?

membengal
05-19-2010, 09:11 AM
Nothing is a given. The Reds have not said.

And, he pitched another 19 innings of ball in the AFL, so by some reckoning, his innings last year were around 160. Which would, in theory, if you subscribe to the only increase innings incrementally school of thought, put him around 175-180 optimally for 2010.

RedsManRick
05-19-2010, 10:03 AM
Just give him a few starts off and keep him in the rotation the whole year. He's averaging 6.67 IP/GS. 28 starts at that rate keeps him under 190 IP.

Better yet, play it by eye and test his strength. If he starts losing strength or rebounding from starts more slowly, you ease up. If he visibly fatigues, you ease up.

But I don't see the logic in using him full speed and then just cutting him off on Sept 1st.

Caveat Emperor
05-19-2010, 12:53 PM
If all goes according to plan, a Leake-shutdown could be timed up to an Edinson Volquez return to the rotation.

Or, the Reds could look for ways to give Leake starts off. Depending on how the rotation falls, they might be able to skip a start over the ASB. They also have guys in AAA (Maloney & Wood) who can come up to make a spot-start if needed in place of Leake to give him some extra rest.

Nasty_Boy
05-19-2010, 01:02 PM
Keep using the kid at his current rate... Don't pitch run him back out just to get a win if he's looking tired... If he struggles later in the season with command coupled with a drop in velo give him a start or two off... But I don't think that a shutdown should be in the conversation unless you see signs of fatigue. The kid was kept out of spring training because they believed he was ready and gave them the best chance to win all season, not just for 2 or 3 months.

fearofpopvol1
05-19-2010, 01:50 PM
A legitimate concern would be if the Reds are in the thick of it in September and the Reds are in contention and Leake continues to pitch well, you think the Reds will be able to stop running him out there?

Chip R
05-19-2010, 01:54 PM
A legitimate concern would be if the Reds are in the thick of it in September and the Reds are in contention and Leak continues to pitch well, you think the Reds will be able to stop running him out there?


That's a very legitimate concern. Perhaps they will continue to send him out there but only limit him to 5 IP.

RedsManRick
05-19-2010, 03:46 PM
A legitimate concern would be if the Reds are in the thick of it in September and the Reds are in contention and Leake continues to pitch well, you think the Reds will be able to stop running him out there?

The way Dusty used Mark Prior suggests not - unless Jocketty takes Leake away from him.

edabbs44
05-19-2010, 03:48 PM
A legitimate concern would be if the Reds are in the thick of it in September and the Reds are in contention and Leake continues to pitch well, you think the Reds will be able to stop running him out there?

I'd be interested in them shortening his starts a bit right now. I was actually thinking about it this morning. It wouldn't exactly hurt letting him go 5 in a few games, where possible.

Hoosier Red
05-19-2010, 05:25 PM
The way Dusty used Mark Prior suggests not - unless Jocketty takes Leake away from him.

Of course going back to the Verducci article, the way Riggleman used Kerry Wood suggests that he wouldn't treat Stephen Strasburg with such kid gloves.

I believe Rocky Balboa said it best, "I guess what I'm trying to say, is that if I can change, and you can change, everybody can change!"

SirFelixCat
05-19-2010, 05:27 PM
Didn't Leake pitch nearly 175 innings last season w/ ASU and the Fall League?


Yup:

142IP w/ ASU (http://thesundevils.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/leake_mike00.html)

19.2 IP in the AFL (http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=l119&lid=119&t=l_pit)

So, looking at that, 162 IP last season. I'd think that 180-190IP is totally reasonable, no?

Will M
05-20-2010, 03:40 PM
today:
6 IP
5 hits
1 ER
1 BB
6 K

Nice to see the team score big today. Nice to see Dusty/Price pulling Leake after six innings.

membengal
05-20-2010, 05:45 PM
I gotta get the taste of the end of that game out of my mouth. Leake's updated season stats:

3.09 ERA in 46 2/3 innings pitched. 33 Ks. 20 BBs. Only four homeruns allowed. WHIP is 1.18. He has not hit a batter.

He's been crazy, crazy good.

RedsManRick
05-20-2010, 06:42 PM
I gotta get the taste of the end of that game out of my mouth. Leake's updated season stats:

3.09 ERA in 46 2/3 innings pitched. 33 Ks. 20 BBs. Only four homeruns allowed. WHIP is 1.18. He has not hit a batter.

He's been crazy, crazy good.

That was before today's game. After the game:

8 GS, 7 QS (6 IP+ in all 8), 52.2 IP, 2.91 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, .218 BAA, 6.7 K/9, 3.36 BB/9, 0.7 HR/9, 3.85 FIP.

Yeah, he's been ok.

membengal
05-20-2010, 06:44 PM
Thanks, RMR. My bad. I would have assumed that reds.com updated his stats in real time as I check the site an hour after game ended.

Lo siento.

RedsManRick
05-20-2010, 06:45 PM
Thanks, RMR. My bad. I would have assumed that reds.com updated his stats in real time as I check the site an hour after game ended.

Lo siento.

De nada. I think ESPN is the only place that keeps up that quickly.

RedsManRick
05-20-2010, 06:49 PM
Don't sleep on Cueto, though. Check out the comp with Leake.



GS QS IP K/9 BB/9 HR/9 WHIP ERA FIP BABIP
8 7 52.7 6.7 3.4 0.7 1.18 2.91 3.85 .245*
8 4 49.0 7.4 2.4 0.9 1.20 3.67 3.83 .295

*Through 7 games

Looks like most of Leake's ERA advantage is from some good luck on balls in play. But you have to love the guy's consistency.

Superdude
05-20-2010, 07:16 PM
Leake's numbers are even better if you look past his first two starts where he walked 12 in 14 innings. His FIP is around 3.50 since then, his K rate is up over 7k/9, and his walks have plummeted to around 2bb/9. I'm normally not into cherry picking numbers, but I feel pretty confident that Leake won't be walking 5+ batters in a game anytime soon.

membengal
05-20-2010, 07:53 PM
Don't sleep on Cueto, though. Check out the comp with Leake.



GS QS IP K/9 BB/9 HR/9 WHIP ERA FIP BABIP
8 7 52.7 6.7 3.4 0.7 1.18 2.91 3.85 .245*
8 4 49.0 7.4 2.4 0.9 1.20 3.67 3.83 .295

*Through 7 games

Looks like most of Leake's ERA advantage is from some good luck on balls in play. But you have to love the guy's consistency.

Leake keeps the ball down and gets a LOT of ground ball outs. He also keeps the ball in the park. Does getting more ground balls factor into the alleged "luck" on balls in play?

Brutus
05-20-2010, 08:08 PM
Leake keeps the ball down and gets a LOT of ground ball outs. He also keeps the ball in the park. Does getting more ground balls factor into the alleged "luck" on balls in play?

It's very important. He's getting over 53% groundballs right now of balls in play. That's pretty good, although it should be noted that groundballs go for hits more often than flyballs do, but while you might give up a few more hits with keeping the ball on the ground, a lot fewer runs will score.

Based on the hit rates, he would be expected to have literally only about three more hits surrendered than has actually been hit to this point. His xBABIP is .267, at least by one method.

OnBaseMachine
05-20-2010, 09:37 PM
Leake pitched a great game today. Too bad his defense and bullpen let him down. I feel for him, he should have picked up his 5th win today. Dusty made the right move by pulling him after six.

membengal
05-21-2010, 05:00 AM
To re-update my other post with the current stats in the counting format (because, try as I might, I don't groove to FIP...):

52 2/3 IP 2.91 ERA 1.18 WHIP 39 Ks 21 BBs 4 HR allowed 0 HBP 71 ground ball outs 34 fly ball outs

That makes him almost 2:1 K:BB after a bad first few games with walks (12 in the first two starts, just 9 over the next six starts) and just over 2:1 ground ball/fly ball. Given where he pitches, that makes me silly happy.

Through 8 starts, 7 have been "quality", and the one that wasn't became so only at the tail end on three runs late in the start against the Dodgers. A game he got the win for anyway, as luck would have it (an evener in terms of "luck" was yesterday in the wins column).

Just really fine work from the rookie. In any other year, if he keeps this up, he would be a lock for ROY. I think, as the season unwinds, unless he falls off a cliff, the offensive numbers and press that Heyward will rightfully get will make ROY difficult to get for Leake, but, in the meantime, I have to go back to Chris Sabo's rookie season for a rookie year I have enjoyed unfold as much as I am enjoying Leake's year so far.

Also, kudos to Dusty and Price and Walt and whomever in the organization for how they are handling his pitch count and innings load so far this year. Just perfect management of a kid making a historically rare leap straight to the bigs.

Benihana
05-25-2010, 08:39 PM
I don't think the question should be is Mike Leake the ace of the rotation. I think the question now should be "Is Mike Leake one of the best pitchers in the game?"

I know it's early, and it's only 1/4 of the way through his first season, but this is quickly becoming one of the most amazing pitching stories of the decade.

OnBaseMachine
05-25-2010, 09:39 PM
I feel sorry for Leake. This guy goes out there and pitches great every game and gets no support from his defense, offense, or bullpen. He has no chance at winning the Rookie of the Year. Why? Because writers look at wins, and Leake won't get enough wins because of the team he plays on. In his last two starts the Reds have blown a 9-3 lead in the 9th inning and ruined what should have been 7-8 shutout innings by losing a routine flyball in the lights and getting shut down by an average at best pitcher.

RANDY IN INDY
05-25-2010, 09:40 PM
The kid can pitch. I'm impressed.

Brutus
05-25-2010, 09:43 PM
I feel sorry for Leake. This guy goes out there and pitches great every game and gets no support from his defense, offense, or bullpen. He has no chance at winning the Rookie of the Year. Why? Because writers look at wins, and Leake won't get enough wins because of the team he plays on. In his last two starts the Reds have blown a 9-3 lead in the 9th inning and ruined what should have been 7-8 shutout innings by losing a routine flyball in the lights and getting shut down by an average at best pitcher.

The team he plays on?

That team was, as of a few days ago, top-5 in baseball in OPS and was tied for first place until tonight in their deivision.

CrackerJack
05-25-2010, 09:45 PM
Leake pitched a great game today. Too bad his defense and bullpen let him down. I feel for him, he should have picked up his 5th win today. Dusty made the right move by pulling him after six.

No blame for the woeful offense that couldn't score more than a run against Pittsburgh?

The great Heisey/Stubbs/Janish lineup? :p:

Screwball
05-25-2010, 09:45 PM
The team he plays on?

That team was, as of a few days ago, top-5 in baseball in OPS and was tied for first place until tonight in their deivision.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. A bit too reactionary after a tough loss.

Besides, media darling Jason Heyward and his .290 BA with 9 HR and .989 OPS is leading the pack by a pretty wide margin.

OnBaseMachine
05-25-2010, 09:46 PM
No blame for the woeful offense that couldn't score more than a run against Pittsburgh?

The great Heisey/Stubbs/Janish lineup? :p:

You just quoted a post from five days ago.

OnBaseMachine
05-25-2010, 09:47 PM
The team he plays on?

That team was, as of a few days ago, top-5 in baseball in OPS and was tied for first place until tonight in their deivision.

The Reds are a solid team but they've blown some games a better team wins, IMO. The Reds had no business losing Leake's last two starts. Those are the types of game they've got to win.

reds44
05-25-2010, 09:48 PM
I feel sorry for Leake. This guy goes out there and pitches great every game and gets no support from his defense, offense, or bullpen. He has no chance at winning the Rookie of the Year. Why? Because writers look at wins, and Leake won't get enough wins because of the team he plays on. In his last two starts the Reds have blown a 9-3 lead in the 9th inning and ruined what should have been 7-8 shutout innings by losing a routine flyball in the lights and getting shut down by an average at best pitcher.
You really have to learn to calm down.

Falls City Beer
05-25-2010, 09:48 PM
Paul Maholm is a good pitcher. Don't kid yourself.

reds44
05-25-2010, 09:48 PM
The Reds are a solid team but they've blown some games a better team wins, IMO. The Reds had no business losing Leake's last two starts. Those are the types of game they've got to win.
They've also won games a lot of teams wouldn't have won.

It goes both ways.

OnBaseMachine
05-25-2010, 09:48 PM
You really have to learn to calm down.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm just stating an opinion. It seems like there's always at least one costly defensive miscue behind him.

Back on topic, it's amazing how well Leake has pitched this season. The guy has been better than anyone could have expected, even the FO. He deserves to make the All-Star team if he keeps this up.

OnBaseMachine
05-25-2010, 09:54 PM
Also, I love the way Dusty has handled Leake. He's yet to allow him to throw a ton of pitches. I think his highest pitch count was 106 in his first start. Kudos to Dusty.

Brutus
05-25-2010, 10:00 PM
The Reds are a solid team but they've blown some games a better team wins, IMO. The Reds had no business losing Leake's last two starts. Those are the types of game they've got to win.

Every single good team in baseball has those games. They really do. Heck, St. Louis was swept by Houston a couple of weeks ago. I don't think anyone would argue St. Louis is not a good team (though I think the jury is out as to how good).

Fluke losses. Heartbreaking losses. Frustrating losses. Ugly losses. They all happen in baseball over the course of 162 games. It's a game of failure. The best players in the entire game make outs 60% of the time. Even if you are a great team, you lose 60 times. It's all part of the game. The important thing is to keep a 2 or 3-game losing stream minimized and not let those disappointing losses haunt you too often.

VR
05-25-2010, 10:51 PM
Every single good team in baseball has those games. They really do. Heck, St. Louis was swept by Houston a couple of weeks ago. I don't think anyone would argue St. Louis is not a good team (though I think the jury is out as to how good).

Fluke losses. Heartbreaking losses. Frustrating losses. Ugly losses. They all happen in baseball over the course of 162 games. It's a game of failure. The best players in the entire game make outs 60% of the time. Even if you are a great team, you lose 60 times. It's all part of the game. The important thing is to keep a 2 or 3-game losing stream minimized and not let those disappointing losses haunt you too often.

No sweat losing this one. Maholm pitched well, wasn't the Reds hitter's night. I'm too excited about Leake to be disappointed.

OnBaseMachine
05-26-2010, 12:41 AM
I'm just disappointed the Reds have wasted his last two starts. He's allowed a total of 2 ER in his last two starts (and one run scored via a Stubbs mishap) and they've lost both games. I think he had a legit chance at a complete game shutout tonight if Stubbs doesn't lose that ball in the lights. Hopefully the Reds can rebound and win the next two and take the series.

Ron Madden
05-26-2010, 03:25 AM
Paul Maholm is a good pitcher. Don't kid yourself.

Yes he is. Wish he was ours.

That said I'm glad Mike Leake wears Cincinnati Red.

fearofpopvol1
05-26-2010, 03:31 AM
The other thing that is awesome about Leake is that he has 7 hits in 19 ABs...OBP of 400 batting 368. Yes the sample size is small, but the dude has an 821 OPS. How many other starting pitchers are hitting the way Leake is?

Ron Madden
05-26-2010, 03:35 AM
The other thing that is awesome about Leake is that he has 7 hits in 19 ABs...OBP of 400 batting 368. Yes the sample size is small, but the dude has an 821 OPS. How many other starting pitchers are hitting the way Leake is?

I think I'd send Leake up to PH before I'd send Cairo up there. ;)

GAC
05-26-2010, 05:07 AM
I feel sorry for Leake. This guy goes out there and pitches great every game and gets no support from his defense, offense, or bullpen. He has no chance at winning the Rookie of the Year. Why? Because writers look at wins, and Leake won't get enough wins because of the team he plays on.

This is just simply laughable.


and ruined what should have been 7-8 shutout innings by losing a routine flyball in the lights and getting shut down by an average at best pitcher.

First off.... Maholm is not simply an average pitcher. Just plays for one terrible team.

Secondly....


Leake didn't blame Stubbs for what happened.

"When I turned around, I couldn't see it either," he said. "It was just a bad time of night. It happens."

TRF
05-26-2010, 08:54 AM
I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm just stating an opinion. It seems like there's always at least one costly defensive miscue behind him.

Back on topic, it's amazing how well Leake has pitched this season. The guy has been better than anyone could have expected, even the FO. He deserves to make the All-Star team if he keeps this up.

Yeah, and he won his first two games despite handing out a dozen free passes. funny how things even out.

membengal
05-26-2010, 09:11 AM
He took no decisions in those, trf. And held the opponents to low run totals anyway. Looking at his stats, hard to say he has been "lucky" frankly. His walks allowed have dropped drastically as he has gotten comfortable in the bigs, and he is everything in terms of mound presence he was reported to be.

TRF
05-26-2010, 09:28 AM
He took no decisions in those, trf. And held the opponents to low run totals anyway. Looking at his stats, hard to say he has been "lucky" frankly. His walks allowed have dropped drastically as he has gotten comfortable in the bigs, and he is everything in terms of mound presence he was reported to be.

If you walk 7 and give up only 1 run, thank the baseball gods, but expect the ball to bounce the other way too. He didn't lose last night either, a game he certainly pitched well enough to win. Both of those types of games happen, and the micro of whether the team gets a single win or loss is less important than the macro: 7 1/3 IP 1 R 3K's and a team leading 2.70 ERA.

Did give up a lot of hits though, but overall, that was a fine performance, far better than his first start.

OnBaseMachine
05-26-2010, 11:07 AM
This is just simply laughable.

Why is it laughable? This Reds team plays a ton of close games, and when that happens the starting pitchers probably aren't going to get a ton of decisions.


First off.... Maholm is not simply an average pitcher. Just plays for one terrible team.

Secondly....

Actually, Maholm is an average pitcher. His stuff is average and his numbers are average as he's posted a 98 ERA+ in 850 career big league innings. He's not a bad pitcher and I wouldn't mind having him at the back of the Reds rotation but he's not someone that should be out there dominating a lineup like he did last night.

KoryMac5
05-26-2010, 11:28 AM
Leake is on pace to throw 211 innings this season. Does anyone know if the Reds have a magic number for him this season?

dougdirt
05-26-2010, 11:53 AM
Leake is on pace to throw 211 innings this season. Does anyone know if the Reds have a magic number for him this season?

I am sure the Reds do have a number for him, but I don't believe they have come forward with it. They have made multiple comments about skipping him though in order to keep his innings down.

This is one of those interesting situations though. He has multiple games with sub 100 pitches where he wasn't throwing a lot of pitches at all. Leake is averaging less than 15 pitches per inning. While his innings are getting up there, the guy simply isn't throwing a lot of pitches. I looked at every pitcher who has thrown between 59 and 61 innings in baseball (1 inning on either side of Mike Leake's 60 innings pitched. I then calculated how many pitches the pitcher would throw if they kept the same pace over 200 innings.

Here is the list, sorted by most pitches thrown to reach 200 IP:


Pitcher IP Pitches If he threw 200ip
Clayton Kershaw 59.33 1052 3546
Joe Saunders 59.33 1000 3371
Jon Garland 60 1006 3353
Paul Maholm 61 990 3246
John Danks 60.67 978 3224
Matt Cain 59.33 956 3223
Brett Meyers 61 968 3174
David Price 59.67 943 3161
Roy Oswalt 61 950 3115
Bronson Arroyo 59.33 918 3095
Barry Zito 61 927 3039
Scott Baker 60.33 909 3013
Mitch Talbot 60.33 892 2957
Mike Leake 60 887 2957
Hirokia Kuroda 59.33 877 2956
Mark Buehrle 59.33 877 2956
Livan Hernandez 60.67 895 2950
Tim Hudson 60.33 865 2868


Lets just look at the extreme's here. If Mike Leake threw as many pitches as Clayton Kershaw is on pace for in 200 innings, given his average P/IP, Leake would throw an extra 40 innings. If Clayton Kershaw were only given the amount of pitches that Leake is on pace to throw over 200 innings, he would only throw 166.2 innings.

I think the Reds have handled Mike Leake with incredible care this season. Leake is one of those guys where the innings total is a bit of a misleading example of workload. Young guys typically don't walk into the majors and average less than 15 pitches an inning. Heck, they don't often come in at less than 16.

TRF
05-26-2010, 12:41 PM
Actually, Maholm is an average pitcher. His stuff is average and his numbers are average as he's posted a 98 ERA+ in 850 career big league innings. He's not a bad pitcher and I wouldn't mind having him at the back of the Reds rotation but he's not someone that should be out there dominating a lineup like he did last night.

Funny thing about average is it doesn't mean even. You get dominant outings sprinkled with abysmal ones.

You are making way too much of this. Remember the no decisions he got in his first two starts. It was luck that he didn't give up 5-6 runs in each game.

And another wrong way to be looking at it is Leake's personal stats. If he wins 15 games this year great. If he starts 28 games and he wins 15, great. If the Reds win 25 of those games, I'd be giddy. I'm not measuring Leake's success based on ROY or his W-L record. Neither should you, and I bet he doesn't either. The problem isn't a ND or L for Leake, its that the Reds lost another game because Masset gave up a gopher ball.

OnBaseMachine
05-26-2010, 12:56 PM
And another wrong way to be looking at it is Leake's personal stats. If he wins 15 games this year great. If he starts 28 games and he wins 15, great. If the Reds win 25 of those games, I'd be giddy. I'm not measuring Leake's success based on ROY or his W-L record. Neither should you, and I bet he doesn't either. The problem isn't a ND or L for Leake, its that the Reds lost another game because Masset gave up a gopher ball.

I'm not measuring Leake's success based on ROY or W-L. Would I like him to win ROY? Sure. But I'm worried more about the team. I'm not upset because the Reds failed to get Leake a personal win in his last two starts. I'm upset because the Reds wasted two very good starts by Leake and lost both games. He pitched two great games that the Reds should have won and they lost both games. They need to win those types of games.

The starting pitching isn't going to be great every single night so they need to take advantage of it when their starter give up just one run. On the flipside, the offense isn't going to be great every night and there will be nights when the pitcher needs to pick up his offense. That's what Leake did last night but the offense was pretty much non-existant, and when that happens you have no chance of winning.

These types of losses can hurt at the end of the season. Win those two games and the Reds would be 28-18 right now and two games ahead of the Cardinals. Oh well, win the next two against the Pirates and all will be forgotton.

RichRed
05-26-2010, 01:06 PM
It's probably been talked about and I just missed it, but what is the record for most consecutive starts to begin a career without a loss? Leake's up to 8.

membengal
05-26-2010, 01:32 PM
trf, I guess I am fussing at your casual ascribing of Leake's working around the walks in the first two starts as "luck". Even while he struggled some with command and with getting squeezed in those two starts, I posit that his approach and stuff allowed him to limit the damage in a way that a lot of pitchers cannot.

And, since the 12 walks in the first two starts, just 9 walks in the ensuing, what, seven starts? I would say the command/respect from umps has filled in like it was reported that it would.

Only four homeruns allowed.

And, in the final pushback that I have against a dismissive "lucky", I note that his groundball to flyball ratio is a filthy 2.10/1. That's sick. And allows him to limit damage in a way that I am simply not used to seeing out of Reds starting pitchers in GABP.

Yes, in general, pitchers that give up seven walks in a game are "lucky" to avoid giving up a lot of runs. But I would also note that some may have the stuff to make their own "luck" when having a rough day.

I think Mike Leake is one of those specials types.

TRF
05-26-2010, 02:18 PM
trf, I guess I am fussing at your casual ascribing of Leake's working around the walks in the first two starts as "luck". Even while he struggled some with command and with getting squeezed in those two starts, I posit that his approach and stuff allowed him to limit the damage in a way that a lot of pitchers cannot.

And, since the 12 walks in the first two starts, just 9 walks in the ensuing, what, seven starts? I would say the command/respect from umps has filled in like it was reported that it would.

Only four homeruns allowed.

And, in the final pushback that I have against a dismissive "lucky", I note that his groundball to flyball ratio is a filthy 2.10/1. That's sick. And allows him to limit damage in a way that I am simply not used to seeing out of Reds starting pitchers in GABP.

Yes, in general, pitchers that give up seven walks in a game are "lucky" to avoid giving up a lot of runs. But I would also note that some may have the stuff to make their own "luck" when having a rough day.

I think Mike Leake is one of those specials types.

Maybe. But what he's done since is irrelevant to those first two starts. game 1, 7 BB's 1R game 2 5 BB's 3R.. More hits allowed in game 2. but when you walk that many guys, yes, you are lucky not to have given up more runs. He certainly seems to be over the jitters of the first two games, but had he gotten a little unlucky, some flares that led to runs expected with that many BB's, we might be comparing him to Brian Reith.

He got lucky early, and now it's more about him than luck, and that is very fortunate.

dougdirt
05-26-2010, 02:39 PM
Maybe. But what he's done since is irrelevant to those first two starts. game 1, 7 BB's 1R game 2 5 BB's 3R.. More hits allowed in game 2. but when you walk that many guys, yes, you are lucky not to have given up more runs. He certainly seems to be over the jitters of the first two games, but had he gotten a little unlucky, some flares that led to runs expected with that many BB's, we might be comparing him to Brian Reith.

He got lucky early, and now it's more about him than luck, and that is very fortunate.

Things tend to even themselves out. Last night he got charged an earned run on a routine pop up. But since no one touched it (Stubbs), its not an error and goes as a hit.

Roy Tucker
05-26-2010, 03:58 PM
Leake is on pace to throw 211 innings this season. Does anyone know if the Reds have a magic number for him this season?

I think the Reds will be quick on the trigger to DL him at the slightest twinge. Partly to err on the cautious side of his physical well-being but also as a way to give him an in-season rest and cut down on his innings.

Kinda like what they just did to Homer.

westofyou
05-27-2010, 10:29 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings100527&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines


Leake frog: Is there a better story in baseball this year than Mike Leake jumping directly to the big leagues from Arizona State and going 4-0, with eight quality starts, in his first nine starts?

Just to give you some perspective, Leake is the 11th American-born pitcher in the division-play era to skip the minor leagues. Here are the starts the other 10 got off to in the big leagues:


Jim Abbott, 0-2
Eddie Bane, 0-5
Pete Broberg, 0-2
David Clyde, 1-3
Darren Dreifort, 0-5
Steve Dunning, 1-4
Mike Morgan, 0-3
Dick Ruthven, 1-5
Tim Conroy, 0-0 (in two starts)
Burt Hooton, 0-0 (lasted 3 1/3 IP)


That totals up to a combined 3-29 for those other 10 guys. And Leake is 4-0. Amazing.

"It's not a fair comparison, because he's a very different player, but when he made our team this spring, it reminded me a lot of the year we took Albert Pujols north with the Cardinals," said Reds GM Walt Jocketty, who was still in St. Louis when the Cardinals jumped Pujols all the way from Class A to the majors in the spring of 2001.

"We kept saying to ourselves all spring, 'Shouldn't we send him to the minor leagues?' But each time he went out there, he was so impressive, we got to the point where our mindset was, 'Do we really have anything to lose? If he's in the big leagues, we can protect the guy, we can watch him, we can keep an eye out for him.' So we finally said, 'Let's roll the dice and see what happens.'

"When I compare him to Albert, obviously they're different players, and I'm not putting him in that category. But it was kind of the same decision-making process."

And like Sir Albert, Leake shows no signs he's ever planning to take a ride on the down elevator. Incredible.

BearcatShane
05-30-2010, 02:39 PM
6 more scoreless innings today. He should be done. Did not have his best stuff at all and playing the offensively challenged Astros helps but I'll take it.

Big Klu
05-30-2010, 02:43 PM
I think Mike Leake will win multiple Gold Gloves before he's done with his career. He fields his position as well as any pitcher I have ever seen.

Falls City Beer
05-30-2010, 02:43 PM
I think Mike Leake will win multiple Gold Gloves before he's done with his career.

Silver Sluggers too.

Big Klu
05-30-2010, 02:46 PM
Silver Sluggers too.

Yep. And hopefully a Cy Young or three. :beerme:

OnBaseMachine
05-30-2010, 04:56 PM
Mike Leake had nothing today and still managed to toss up six shutout innings. Very impressive.

Leake's last three starts:

6 IP, 1 ER
7.1 IP, 1 R
6 IP, 0 R

Three losses.

Nine of his 10 starts have been quality starts but the Reds are only 6-4 in his starts. He's definitely doing his part. Dude has been very, very impressive. It's amazing how he still finds a way to get hitters out even without his best stuff.

Superdude
05-30-2010, 04:58 PM
What was the problem with Leake's stuff today? I didn't get to watch

Benihana
05-30-2010, 05:11 PM
With the great pitching marred by lack of run support, should the question be "Is Mike Leake the new Aaron Harang?"

BCubb2003
05-30-2010, 05:54 PM
If the Reds had known Leake would be so good, would they have gone after Chapman?

Ron Madden
05-30-2010, 06:07 PM
If the Reds had known Leake would be so good, would they have gone after Chapman?

I think so.

OnBaseMachine
05-30-2010, 06:20 PM
From Mark Sheldon's blog:


"He just has a good feel for moving the ball in and out, he keeps it down. He's got a little more movement probably than you give him credit for. Some guys feel like, for example, if you're facing a Brandon Webb where his sinker drops two feet, well Leake's doesn't look like it's moving that much but I think it is. If you go back and look, it moves late, and it moves more than you give him credit for. So I think that's how he's able to induce as many ground balls." -- Astros 1B Lance Berkman on Leake.

http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/05/postgame_extra_blanked_1.html

Ron Madden
05-30-2010, 06:35 PM
Mike Leake's last 3 starts. 19.1 IP 2 ER 5BB 12K 0.94 ERA 0-0.

Reds lost all 3 games.

TheNext44
05-30-2010, 07:35 PM
Mike Leake's last 3 starts. 19.1 IP 2 ER 5BB 12K 0.94 ERA 0-0.

Reds lost all 3 games.

Aaron Harang says, "Welcome to my world."

OnBaseMachine
05-31-2010, 03:12 PM
Reds GM Walt Jocketty acknowledged over the weekend that the team eventually will need to back off rookie right-hander Mike Leake, who is 4-0 with a 2.45 ERA in nine starts.

Leake averages 14.9 pitches per inning, eighth-lowest in the NL. But this is his first professional season, and the promotion of left-hander Aroldis Chapman and/or return of right-hander Edinson Volquez from Tommy John surgery would enable the Reds to create breaks in Leake’s schedule.


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/kendry-morales-injury-not-only-los-angeles-angels-problem-053110

fearofpopvol1
06-02-2010, 12:01 AM
No.

If Leake isn't the ace, then who is?

Screwball
06-02-2010, 12:22 AM
If Leake isn't the ace, then who is?

Bronson Arr--..., err Johnny Cue-..., err, Sam LeCure?