PDA

View Full Version : A Dusty comment worth paying attention to



GIDP
04-24-2010, 02:17 PM
SWING, BATTER: Baker chatted pre-game with Chris Dickerson on Saturday about strikeouts. Not so much that Dickerson fanned four times Friday, but was caught looking three times.

“I know the camera’s on me, but I’m about to explode on those called strikes,” Baker said. “That gives you no chance. You put the ball in play, anything can happen.”

When it was suggested that some calls appeared borderline, Baker replied:

“Sometimes you’ve got to take it out of his hands.”

From John Fays blog today.

Something to keep an eye on. I have to worry if Dusty is telling guys to swing at anything close because a swing and a miss or bad contact is better than a called strike. Lets see what happens.

Krawhitham
04-24-2010, 03:27 PM
with 2 strikes you do swing at anything close, the umpires are horrible this season. They are more worried about cutting game length down than getting the call right

Southpaw
04-24-2010, 04:42 PM
Something to keep an eye on. I have to worry if Dusty is telling guys to swing at anything close because a swing and a miss or bad contact is better than a called strike. Lets see what happens.

Dickerson isn't hitting. Period.

It isn't Dusty's or Brook Jacoby's fault. Dickerson just isn't hitting or walking for that matter. Period.


with 2 strikes you do swing at anything close....

This.

You protect the 'zone on 2 strike counts. Sorry, that's just the way its done. I love me some OBP just like everybody else. You just can't take called 3rd strike after called 3rd strike.

Did I say Dickerson isn't hitting? Well, he isn't. Period.

ukwazoo
04-24-2010, 04:52 PM
The only Dusty comment I'll pay attention to is, "I quit."

GIDP
04-24-2010, 05:22 PM
Dickerson isn't hitting. Period.

It isn't Dusty's or Brook Jacoby's fault. Dickerson just isn't hitting or walking for that matter. Period.



This.

You protect the 'zone on 2 strike counts. Sorry, that's just the way its done. I love me some OBP just like everybody else. You just can't take called 3rd strike after called 3rd strike.

Did I say Dickerson isn't hitting? Well, he isn't. Period.
did I say it was anyones fault? Telling someone who isnt hitting the ball to swing more especially when they think its a ball is a bad idea. Dustys message seems to be if you arent hitting just swing more often. Not saying that swinging less is the answer either. Taking called 3rd strike when its a ball is something I want every red to do. I would like if they never swung at a ball. If Dusty is telling guys to swing at balls then its something to keep an eye on.

Orodle
04-24-2010, 05:26 PM
its no secret Dusty wants his guys hacking........ hes the reason behind the strikouts. He rewards those players who dont get on base with more playing time. No wonder Dickerson isnt doing well....hes just trying to copy the guys who got playing time over him recently by matching their stats....Corey Patterson, Willie Tavares, Drew Stubbs.

NeilHamburger
04-24-2010, 05:31 PM
Don't worry, if the Astros win today the Reds will have the worst record in the NL. Someone will take the fall for this mid June if this continues. My guess is Dusty is gone by the all star break, along with most of his coaches, and most of the players who can be moved. It's time to completely blow this team up, and I mean completely. You need to move everyone (including Votto) for the best prospects you can get and completely Florida Marlins this team. I wouldn't mind all 25 guys being moved if you could.

Griffey012
04-24-2010, 05:49 PM
Don't worry, if the Astros win today the Reds will have the worst record in the NL. Someone will take the fall for this mid June if this continues. My guess is Dusty is gone by the all star break, along with most of his coaches, and most of the players who can be moved. It's time to completely blow this team up, and I mean completely. You need to move everyone (including Votto) for the best prospects you can get and completely Florida Marlins this team. I wouldn't mind all 25 guys being moved if you could.

We're 7-10. A win tomorrow and we are 8-10, only 2 games under .500. We have been playing horrible baseball no doubt, but we can't play any worse an we are still 7-10. The coach will be gone before the team is blown up. 15 of the 25 guys no team would trade for, which is half the problem.

We have played as bad as the Orioles, yet we are 7-10, not 2-15. Oust the manager, get a new one with some fire and brains...but please don't blow the whole thing up already. 17 games ago a majority of us all had high hopes for the playoffs.

NeilHamburger
04-24-2010, 05:59 PM
The Reds are actually now 7-11, but they're actually very lucky to even be that good. They have a run differential of -30. The Orioles run differential is -36. Trust me, if this keeps up the Reds will be much worse then 14-22 a month from now.

kfm
04-24-2010, 08:09 PM
I have heard it all now. Now we are defending guys for taking called third strikes and attacking the manager for saying that he is tired of guys taking called third strikes. We all know how frustrated we are when guys take called third strikes, it just drives me crazy. Umpires have strike zones, some are bigger than others. Players have to adjust to what is being called a strike during each game. I really wish Bob would just fire Dusty already so people can stop blaming the boogey man for everything.

Jack Burton
04-24-2010, 08:41 PM
Isn't it funny that a guy like Pete Rose is banned from baseball but an idiot such as baker gets to continue to wreck this franchise?

texasdave
04-24-2010, 08:52 PM
Even if Dusty were completely blameless for this mess it is a fact that the manager generally takes the fall. And you are right, Dusty isn't to blame for the myriad shortcomings of this team. But the buck stops with Dusty. If this team doesn't pick it up by June 1st, Dusty has to go.

kfm
04-24-2010, 09:18 PM
Isn't it funny that a guy like Pete Rose is banned from baseball but an idiot such as baker gets to continue to wreck this franchise?

Not sure what one has to do with the other. Betting on baseball is the ultimate sin, and Pete committed it and got what he deserved and also went to prison. Then he lied about betting on baseball for years, while people wearing Rose colored glasses were either foolish or naive enough to believe him. Compare Dusty's and Roses accomplishments as a manager into the discussion if we want to bring facts into it. Wake me when Rose wins his first division title.

kfm
04-24-2010, 09:21 PM
Even if Dusty were completely blameless for this mess it is a fact that the manager generally takes the fall. And you are right, Dusty isn't to blame for the myriad shortcomings of this team. But the buck stops with Dusty. If this team doesn't pick it up by June 1st, Dusty has to go.

Agree, that is the reality of the sport and every manager knows that when they sign up. It doesn't matter if you are given the 27 yankees or the Washington Nationals, if you don't win the manager will pay the price. I am more than ready for Dusty to go, so we can as fans move onto the real problems with this team.

1990REDS
04-24-2010, 10:18 PM
Blame whoever you want, but at the end of the day I just dont think we have the talent to keep up over a 162 game season.

kfm
04-24-2010, 10:50 PM
Blame whoever you want, but at the end of the day I just dont think we have the talent to keep up over a 162 game season.

Ditto!

Jack Burton
04-25-2010, 12:25 AM
Not sure what one has to do with the other. Betting on baseball is the ultimate sin, and Pete committed it and got what he deserved and also went to prison. Then he lied about betting on baseball for years, while people wearing Rose colored glasses were either foolish or naive enough to believe him. Compare Dusty's and Roses accomplishments as a manager into the discussion if we want to bring facts into it. Wake me when Rose wins his first division title.
Obviously you would rather have Rose as manager, if he was reinstated, than Dusty, no?

Pete has forgot more about the game than Dusty will ever know.

Griffey012
04-25-2010, 02:13 AM
Not sure what one has to do with the other. Betting on baseball is the ultimate sin, and Pete committed it and got what he deserved and also went to prison. Then he lied about betting on baseball for years, while people wearing Rose colored glasses were either foolish or naive enough to believe him. Compare Dusty's and Roses accomplishments as a manager into the discussion if we want to bring facts into it. Wake me when Rose wins his first division title.

Players who beat their wives, abuse people, harm others, cheat the game etc are doing better than betting on baseball? Wrong. Many things are worse than what Pete did. People should be given a second chance and should come clean. And Pete is getting what he deserves for not coming clean, but betting on baseball is not the ultimate sin.

Jack Burton
04-25-2010, 11:10 AM
^ Good post. To put it in perspective, a guy like Ben Roethlisberger rapes an intoxicated young girl, pretty much ruining her life and gets a 6 game suspension. Pete Rose makes a stupid decision and bets on baseball and gets a lifetime ban? Doesn't compute. I'm willing to bet Pete could turn this ballclub around in no time.

Griffey012
04-25-2010, 11:26 AM
I actually just now read the full article and it may be the most logical wording I have ever heard Dusty talk about when it comes to hitting. He had some pretty good quotes and mentioned he didn't buy into Dickerson's explanation about he was trying to be more selective in the leadoff spots. Dusty had a good response ""I'm trying to stress to him that your role changes as the situation changes," said Baker. "If the bases are loaded, you're a RBI man." Which is a big reason why OCab has quite a few RBI's, he gets in play with runners on 3rd.

Another thing worth pointing out is Baker said "We've got to cut down on strikeouts," Baker said. "We'll just keep stressing it over and over and over. We'll talk until we get it. If you don't get it, we'll have to move in another direction. We're not to that point yet."

Sounds like he is starting to get as irritated at our hitting as we all are.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100424&content_id=9539716&notebook_id=9539722&vkey=notebook_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

CySeymour
04-25-2010, 12:02 PM
Players who beat their wives, abuse people, harm others, cheat the game etc are doing better than betting on baseball? Wrong. Many things are worse than what Pete did. People should be given a second chance and should come clean. And Pete is getting what he deserves for not coming clean, but betting on baseball is not the ultimate sin.

You are correct, but this is evaluating the individual as a person. But when it comes to the actual institution of baseball, betting on the sport is the single biggest sin.

Old NDN
04-25-2010, 12:28 PM
Blame? How about those that continually miss on evaluating talent? Be it scouts, GMs, managers, coaches, etc. How can you justify keeping people in an organization that miss a lot more than they hit?

redsfan_12
04-25-2010, 01:08 PM
Even if Dusty were completely blameless for this mess it is a fact that the manager generally takes the fall. And you are right, Dusty isn't to blame for the myriad shortcomings of this team. But the buck stops with Dusty. If this team doesn't pick it up by June 1st, Dusty has to go.

+1

kfm
04-25-2010, 05:23 PM
Players who beat their wives, abuse people, harm others, cheat the game etc are doing better than betting on baseball? Wrong. Many things are worse than what Pete did. People should be given a second chance and should come clean. And Pete is getting what he deserves for not coming clean, but betting on baseball is not the ultimate sin.

In baseball it is the ultimate sin, and the proof is in the punishment.

kfm
04-25-2010, 05:27 PM
Obviously you would rather have Rose as manager, if he was reinstated, than Dusty, no?

Pete has forgot more about the game than Dusty will ever know.

Jack, look at Pete's accomplishments as a manager and look at Dusty's. Not to mention, what did Pete's team do after he left? They sure did miss him. Hate to bust your bubble about Pete but I heard him on the radio this morning talking about how players are waiting for the perfect pitch and how you need to be more aggressive as a hitter. He said there is nothng wrong with swinging at balls as long as they are close and he talked about the great bad ball hitters from his time like Roberto Clemente and Mickey Mantle. Please explain with some actual facts why Rose is a better manager than Dusty?

Jack Burton
04-25-2010, 07:09 PM
Jack, look at Pete's accomplishments as a manager and look at Dusty's. Not to mention, what did Pete's team do after he left? They sure did miss him. Hate to bust your bubble about Pete but I heard him on the radio this morning talking about how players are waiting for the perfect pitch and how you need to be more aggressive as a hitter. He said there is nothng wrong with swinging at balls as long as they are close and he talked about the great bad ball hitters from his time like Roberto Clemente and Mickey Mantle. Please explain with some actual facts why Rose is a better manager than Dusty?
Well, on the diamond Dusty couldn't hold Pete's jockstrap, I'm sure that would translate to the dugout. I was reading Eric Davis' book and in it he stated that Pete was the one responsible for the 1990 World Series victory, more so than Lou. I think that speaks volumes considering what ED meant to that team, his opinion should be valued. I'm not sure why you continue to be a dusty apologist, he's lost this team a while ago. This team makes more fundamental mistakes than a little league squad, unacceptable is an understatement.

kfm
04-25-2010, 08:03 PM
Well, on the diamond Dusty couldn't hold Pete's jockstrap, I'm sure that would translate to the dugout. I was reading Eric Davis' book and in it he stated that Pete was the one responsible for the 1990 World Series victory, more so than Lou. I think that speaks volumes considering what ED meant to that team, his opinion should be valued. I'm not sure why you continue to be a dusty apologist, he's lost this team a while ago. This team makes more fundamental mistakes than a little league squad, unacceptable is an understatement.

I could care less about Dusty Baker, I just think blaming him for everything and pretending like he is the only problem or even the major problem with this team is an emotional position that lacks serious analysis. If refusing to blindly follow the crowd who believes in this type of myopic fantasy makes me an apologist in the eyes of those folks I could care less. I do find it interesting that whever you disagree with this popular view on this board, you don't get analysis back or facts back you get name calling which is pretty telling. I just wish we could have more serious baseball discussion supported by facts and then analysis of those facts. I would love to have those types of discussions on this board, but instead we get things like Griffey is the problem, no Dunn is the problem, no Wily is the problem, no Edwin is the problem, no Barry is the problem, no Dusty is the problem The problems go away but the bottom line is this team continues to lose, so if you would like to join in some serious discussion and analysis of baseball that would be great, but the boogey man blame game is not analysis and I refuse to follow the knee jerk crowd.

Caveman Techie
04-26-2010, 02:26 PM
Actually I agree with Dusty in this instance. Nothing drives me more nuts than a called third strike. In my opinion that just means you aren't paying attention. The only time I would accept a bad call as an excuse is if it was so bad the manager is out there kicking dirt screaming and hollering about how bad a call it was.

Umpire called a close one against you? So what, you should of swung at it or something, anything, foul it off don't just stand there with the bat on your shoulder if it was that close.

My son plays baseball right now (13U SWOL) and I have always told him "I'd rather have you go down swinging than have a called strikeout".

This has even led to some pretty heated fights between us in the past when an umpire "made a bad call" in his opinion. But now it is paying off. He is the leadoff hitter for his team and right now he has an ~700 OBP. One thing his coach commented to me one time was how my son just never took strike three. He's had some marathon at bats sometimes because he has become the master at fouling off pitches till the pitcher makes a mistake. More often than not the mistake is a pitch in the dirt for ball four.

GIDP
04-26-2010, 03:29 PM
Swinging at something close isnt bad when you have 2 strikes. I dont think thats Dustys message though. I think he just hates any strike you dont swing at. Like I said its something to keep an eye on.

kfm
04-26-2010, 07:58 PM
Swinging at something close isnt bad when you have 2 strikes. I dont think thats Dustys message though. I think he just hates any strike you dont swing at. Like I said its something to keep an eye on.

He said he hates people taking called third strikes, which I think is an incredibly bizarre thing to attack someone over. Why is it you believe that he did not mean what he said and what he actually meant was players should swing at every strike?

GIDP
04-26-2010, 08:25 PM
He said he hates people taking called third strikes, which I think is an incredibly bizarre thing to attack someone over. Why is it you believe that he did not mean what he said and what he actually meant was players should swing at every strike?

Read my original post again and tell me where it says anything about called 3rd strikes.

kfm
04-26-2010, 08:37 PM
Read my original post again and tell me where it says anything about called 3rd strikes.

I guess I would urge that you read the entire article since it is not permitted to be posted here. He specifcally talks about strikeouts and he mentions a hit that Russell Martin got when he put the ball in play when he had two strikes on him. He also says you have no chance if you don't swing. DO you still have a chance if you don't swing at strike one, yes,how about strike two yes, what if you don't swing at strike three, no chance. He also was talking about Chris Dickerson who struck out 4 times, three of them on called third strikes. I think it is pretty clear that he is talking about taking called third strikes because if you don't swing at strike three, that is when you have no chance. Did the context of the actual article play any role in your bottom line?

GIDP
04-26-2010, 08:41 PM
I guess I would urge that you read the entire article since it is not permitted to be posted here. He specifcally talks about strikeouts and he mentions a hit that Russell Martin got when he put the ball in play when he had two strikes on him. He also says you have no chance if you don't swing. DO you still have a chance if you don't swing at strike one, yes,how about strike two yes, what if you don't swing at strike three, no chance. He also was talking about Chris Dickerson who struck out 4 times, three of them on called third strikes. I think it is pretty clear that he is talking about taking called third strikes because if you don't swing at strike three, that is when you have no chance. Did the context of the actual article play any role in your bottom line?

I obviously linked from a blog that came out a day ealier than any such article.

GIDP
04-28-2010, 08:31 PM
Another one


ON LEADOFF: Baker said Chris Dickerson will start tomorrow against Roy Oswalt. But Drew Stubbs, who is down to .150, was in the leadoff spot Wednesday.

“Both of them are struggling,” Baker said. “Stubbs is struggling more. I’ve got to get him more aggressive early in the count. I know everybody talks about on-base percentage and working the court. But working the count isn’t helping.

“There are some pretty good guys around, like Juan Pierre, who hit what their on-base percentage is. We’re still trying to figure out what kind of big league hitter (Stubbs) is. I talked to him about being aggressive early in the count because when you’re hitting .150 with speed, the last thing they want to do is walk you. You’ve got to let them know they can’t start you off with first pitch fastball to get ahead of you.”

Like I said if this the advice hes giving out its something to watch.

Griffey012
04-28-2010, 08:40 PM
Another one



Like I said if this the advice hes giving out its something to watch.

Why does Dusty always have to follow up something intelligent he says with something retarded. I agree with him that right now Stubbs needs to be more aggressive, as Dusty pointed out when you are hitting .150 and fast nobody is gonna walk you. Pitchers have been way ahead of Stubbs early and then he is just a dead duck at the plate. He has to be ready to hack at a fastball down the pipe regardless of the count, I think that is what Dusty is getting at....
...but then he goes and brings up Juan Pierre...wtf?

GIDP
04-28-2010, 08:43 PM
Why does Dusty always have to follow up something intelligent he says with something retarded. I agree with him that right now Stubbs needs to be more aggressive, as Dusty pointed out when you are hitting .150 and fast nobody is gonna walk you. Pitchers have been way ahead of Stubbs early and then he is just a dead duck at the plate. He has to be ready to hack at a fastball down the pipe regardless of the count, I think that is what Dusty is getting at....
...but then he goes and brings up Juan Pierre...wtf?

Dusty has trouble understanding skill sets.

Kingspoint
04-28-2010, 09:08 PM
The Reds are actually now 7-11, but they're actually very lucky to even be that good. They have a run differential of -30. The Orioles run differential is -36. Trust me, if this keeps up the Reds will be much worse then 14-22 a month from now.

Yet, a win tonight and we go to 10-11.

With Stubbs opening the game with a single, I'd say our chances are very good.