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Kc61
04-27-2010, 02:03 PM
For those of you watching the Bats games, do you think Valaika is showing enough to possibly warrant a call up soon? How is his defense? Is he versatile enough to be a major league utility man? He is very hot with the bat, obviously.

Would seem Reds might consider him as an alternative to Cairo as a utility player.

dougdirt
04-27-2010, 02:08 PM
I doubt the Reds call him up to be a utility guy. Defensively he can get you by at SS, but not someone you want there every day. At 2B he is fine. Has the arm to get you by at 3B as well.

GIDP
04-27-2010, 02:08 PM
Anything would be an upgrade over Cairo. Im not calling him up just beceause of a hot start though.

Kc61
04-27-2010, 02:11 PM
I doubt the Reds call him up to be a utility guy. Defensively he can get you by at SS, but not someone you want there every day. At 2B he is fine. Has the arm to get you by at 3B as well.

Would seem to me that Reds would likely use him as an offensive utility infielder, at least to start.

HokieRed
04-27-2010, 02:11 PM
I'd let him keep playing every day at Louisville. Goal has got to be to see if he's the regular 2b after Phillips is gone.

Edd Roush
04-27-2010, 03:11 PM
I'd let him keep playing every day at Louisville. Goal has got to be to see if he's the regular 2b after Phillips is gone.


This July? I can only hope. I hope he gets hot and Walt is smart enough to unload him for a good young bat for left field or another catcher. Brandon is about to get really expensive and I really have a tough saying that he is indispensable to this team. I don't want to just dump Brandon (ala Junior even though Masset has been a lot better than we expected), but a little something is enough for me.

I really think Valaika or Frazier could step in tomorrow and we would not be that disadvantaged. Plus, it takes a non-cleanup bat out of the cleanup spot.

Scrap Irony
04-27-2010, 03:31 PM
Between Frazier, Cozart, Janish, and the SS quartet in the lower levels, I'm hoping to see Phillips dealt either this year or this offseason. Understand, though, Valaika's modus operandi is to struggle at the beginning of each level, then rake afterward.

He'll likely to that in the majors as well. And it may take a couple years to get over that particular hump. I'd love to see him at 2B as early as June (full time), deal with the inevitable struggles this season, then perhaps a blossoming next.

Too, I'm hoping Frazier does the same thing, though I'd start him as a utility guy. Between SS, 2B, 3B, LF, and 1B, I think he'd be able to garner 250 PAs the last half of the season.

Then, next season, you pick the best one to start the majority of the games at second, with either Cozart or a FA pick-up at shortstop.

(Or, the Reds could deal Phillips, Alonso, and Harang to the Mets for Reyes right now, with the idea of moving Reyes to 2B for 2011. ;))

HokieRed
04-27-2010, 03:47 PM
I was thinking Phillips would be gone after the 2011 season. I see no possibility that any team would take enough of his contract before that to make it worthwhile to trade him.

Scrap Irony
04-27-2010, 04:04 PM
I don't know-- he has a great glove and the reputation that he has a great glove, which is also important, especially in baseball's old boy GM circles. He also has power that some teams may need.

If you find a big pocket owner with an old school GM, he makes a lot of sense, assuming the Reds take back someone with a salary close to the same.

For example, the Mets make a lot of sense, as both Castillo and Reyes are struggling and neither has impressed Met fans over the past couple years. A Cabrera/Phillips/Harang/ prospect swap for Castillo/Reyes gets New York a veteran innings eater starter, a veteran 2B, and a veteran SS for a team that is ready right now without losing much of anything from their team.

TRF
04-27-2010, 05:07 PM
Ahem,

I believe i mentioned Valaika as the reds minor league comeback player of the year.

*TRF pats himself on the back...*

GOYA
04-27-2010, 06:04 PM
Valaika can be a solid, unspectacular 2B, but should never be considered again for SS. Any move to Cincy should not be before August unless injuries demand it.

RedsManRick
04-27-2010, 06:08 PM
I doubt the Reds call him up to be a utility guy. Defensively he can get you by at SS, but not someone you want there every day. At 2B he is fine. Has the arm to get you by at 3B as well.

Doug, that sounds an awful lot like Rosales. Is that a fair comp?

Will M
04-27-2010, 06:19 PM
I 100% agree that Phillips is expendable. I thought he would be gone after 2008 (!) & yet he is still here. Don't get me wrong. He is an above average player because of his average bat yet strong defense at 2B. However, the team cannot pay big bucks to complimentary players. I think we may eventually see Valaika or Frazier at 2B.

Since Vlaika struggled mightily last year I would be in no rush to call him to Cincinnati just to take Cairo's place. Let him get at least a 1/2 season of strong perfromance at AAA before a callup.

dougdirt
04-27-2010, 06:23 PM
Doug, that sounds an awful lot like Rosales. Is that a fair comp?

Valaika has always been thought of as a MLB hitter, just not sure where his glove would play as the Reds always said he was ok for SS but nearly everyone else disagreed. Valaika certainly has more pop in his bat than Rosales, but I think of Valaika as a very Brandon Phillips (sans the 30 HR season) type of ceiling in terms of offense. Good but not great pop. Probably a 2.5-3/1 K/BB who relies on his .280 average to make up a .330 OBP.

GOYA
04-27-2010, 06:40 PM
Strictly talking about his glove, Valaika could play at SS. It's his throws that are the problem there. It seemed to get worse later in the 2009 season.

mdccclxix
04-28-2010, 06:19 PM
You've got to bring these types of guys up when they're ready to hit near their ceilings, IMO. Sure, they're cheap whenever you bring them up, but if they don't hit they aren't worth it.

Personally, I'll wait all of next year as well to decide if anyone in AAA is ready to help permanently in Cincinnati.

Sure, we'll have some September call ups, some competition in ST next year, etc. But, there are no hall of famers in AAA right now, that's pretty safe to say.

In the meantime, I'm in favor of restructuring Phillips deal through 2013, similar to Rolen, so we have more to spend next year - and he's easier to trade. But, really, I'd like him around for 3-4 more years.

fearofpopvol1
04-28-2010, 06:56 PM
You've got to bring these types of guys up when they're ready to hit near their ceilings, IMO. Sure, they're cheap whenever you bring them up, but if they don't hit they aren't worth it.

OR...you trade them when their value is at an all time high, especially when you have Phillips locked up. It's up to the scouts and such to figure that out, but you may be able to get great value in a trade and address another area.

Roush's socks
04-28-2010, 11:49 PM
If Valaika projects as utility type player at best, why not just bring him up to replace Cairo and see how he does? Or, while his stock is high, they could trade him for a younger project with a higher ceiling. Sometimes you have to trade down and replenish the A and AA prospects.

mdccclxix
04-29-2010, 01:40 AM
I'm in favor of moving any of the prospects in AAA other than Chapman, if the deal is good for the team.

I'd like to see one or two of Cozart, Valaika and Frazier make strides in this, their 24th year. Whoever doesn't step up this year, by September, may not be worth worrying about much longer.

Kc61
04-29-2010, 09:40 AM
I'm in favor of moving any of the prospects in AAA other than Chapman, if the deal is good for the team.

I'd like to see one or two of Cozart, Valaika and Frazier make strides in this, their 24th year. Whoever doesn't step up this year, by September, may not be worth worrying about much longer.

Patience. These are young players. They aren't immune to slumps. They may be working on things which will improve them over the long haul.

Forget the won-lost records, let's evaluate each player over time.

The Reds major league team has a number of home grown guys right now, this will continue over time. Have to be patient as they develop.

mdccclxix
04-29-2010, 02:03 PM
Patience. These are young players. They aren't immune to slumps. They may be working on things which will improve them over the long haul.

Forget the won-lost records, let's evaluate each player over time.

The Reds major league team has a number of home grown guys right now, this will continue over time. Have to be patient as they develop.

Right, I agree, patience. I'm not worried about the records of the affiliates, either. Like I said, I'll wait all next year if need be.

In general, it will likely be my preference to temper my expectations for Valaika, Frazier, and Cozart if they don't at least make a September call up, and perform well enough to expect a great shot at the team next year.

To me, they will start to look more like role players if they don't put up strong this year. Again, I'm not at all concerned about the present streak or slump they happen to be in. I look forward to the rest of the season.

Overall, I'd like our 1st and 2nd round picks to make it up for good by 25 y/o so they get their kinks out by 26, 27, 28 and have great years. If they can't make it by then I start to get less optimistic about them being great difference makers that the Reds need.

Mario-Rijo
04-30-2010, 01:48 PM
You've got to bring these types of guys up when they're ready to hit near their ceilings, IMO. Sure, they're cheap whenever you bring them up, but if they don't hit they aren't worth it.

Personally, I'll wait all of next year as well to decide if anyone in AAA is ready to help permanently in Cincinnati.

Sure, we'll have some September call ups, some competition in ST next year, etc. But, there are no hall of famers in AAA right now, that's pretty safe to say.

In the meantime, I'm in favor of restructuring Phillips deal through 2013, similar to Rolen, so we have more to spend next year - and he's easier to trade. But, really, I'd like him around for 3-4 more years.

I don't know Jeff Kent comes to mid as someone who I bet no one thought had a shot at the HOF, now he has a reasonable shot. Frazier could be that type of player. Some guys are late bloomers.

GIDP
04-30-2010, 01:53 PM
Hall of Fame players dont happen often. Reds havent had one get put in the hall since Perez in 2000 and he quit playing in 86. It takes a long time for Hall of Famers to even be considered hall of famers.

mdccclxix
04-30-2010, 03:33 PM
Somewhat of a figure of speech, when I said hall of famers, but I'll go with "perennial all stars" for the same effect and it's more what I mean anyway - sort of a Scott Rolen type career.

I'm not disagreeing with anyone about the chances of great success, I don't think. Of course, you'll agree with me that for every Jeff Kent, there are 75 Todd Fraziers. And Kent is a good example of a late bloomer, yet he still played 100 games at 24 years old.

Let's hope one more out of this mature crop of nice prospects can make a big, big step forward.

pahster
05-01-2010, 11:28 AM
Somewhat of a figure of speech, when I said hall of famers, but I'll go with "perennial all stars" for the same effect and it's more what I mean anyway - sort of a Scott Rolen type career.

I'm not disagreeing with anyone about the chances of great success, I don't think. Of course, you'll agree with me that for every Jeff Kent, there are 75 Todd Fraziers. And Kent is a good example of a late bloomer, yet he still played 100 games at 24 years old.

Let's hope one more out of this mature crop of nice prospects can make a big, big step forward.

Scott Rolen is going to be in the Hall of Fame; he's one of the best 3B of all time.

mdccclxix
05-01-2010, 12:12 PM
Scott Rolen is going to be in the Hall of Fame; he's one of the best 3B of all time.

He's got a decent case, for sure, but you're the first one I've heard sound so sure.

pahster
05-01-2010, 12:21 PM
He's got a decent case, for sure, but you're the first one I've heard sound so sure.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rolensc01.shtml

Take a look at what he's accomplished over the course of his career and then consider that he's been one of, if not the, best defenders at his position for essentially his entire career.

fearofpopvol1
05-01-2010, 01:50 PM
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rolensc01.shtml

Take a look at what he's accomplished over the course of his career and then consider that he's been one of, if not the, best defenders at his position for essentially his entire career.

Not to get too far off topic, but Rolen is not a lock. His stats are excellent, but Barry Larkin's were too (some say top 10-15 all time at SS) and he is not a lock either. Unfortunately, you've got a lot of sports writers who vote based on baselines for why guys should get in the HOF.