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View Full Version : Realistically, when could Janish & Hanigan start?



fielder's choice
04-27-2010, 03:03 PM
If Ocab and Ramon keep playing poorly, and there's no reason to think they won't, when will the young guys get a shot? They have been more productive in far less PA's not to mention superior defense.

mattfeet
04-27-2010, 03:04 PM
Id give Hanigan the start over Hernandez before Id give Janish the start over oCab. Yea, his defense hasn't been stellar, but he HAS been productive offensively for us. I know Janish is hitting at this time, but I still trust oCab's bat a bit more. I am not opposed to spot-starting Janish every 3rd or 4th game though.

-Matt

GIDP
04-27-2010, 03:09 PM
Hernandez and Hanigans rolls would swap if I was managing. Cabrera is god awful at SS so I would use Janish quite a lot in late innings. Janish probably should be the starter.

Trace's Daddy
04-27-2010, 03:17 PM
I'd flip their roles and if the vet starts to perform better than the younger guy, then flip their roles back. There needs to be an incentive for them to play well. If they keep starting with crappy OBP or errors in the field, they aren't as motivated to improve.

sivman17
04-27-2010, 03:24 PM
I would let Janish and Hanigan play every day. But Dusty usually doesn't ask for my opinion.

Jack Burton
04-27-2010, 03:34 PM
Dickerson CF
Janish SS
Votto 1B
Rolen 3B
Bruce RF
Phillips 2B
Nix/Gomes LF
Hanigan C
P

Send down Stubbs and let him work some things out. LF defense will be brutal for time being, those guys are just keeping the spot warm until it can be upgraded.

Definitely interested in moving Phillips before deadline.

Griffey012
04-27-2010, 03:43 PM
Dickerson CF
Janish SS
Votto 1B
Rolen 3B
Bruce RF
Phillips 2B
Nix/Gomes LF
Hanigan C
P

Send down Stubbs and let him work some things out. LF defense will be brutal for time being, those guys are just keeping the spot warm until it can be upgraded.

Definitely interested in moving Phillips before deadline.

Nix is actually pretty good with the glove in LF he is definitely above average, and he has a good arm. Our LF defense would only be brutal when Gomes is playing against lefties.

Jack Burton
04-27-2010, 03:50 PM
Haven't seen much of Nix tbph, but from what I have seen he looked shaky.

Griffey012
04-27-2010, 03:54 PM
Id give Hanigan the start over Hernandez before Id give Janish the start over oCab. Yea, his defense hasn't been stellar, but he HAS been productive offensively for us. I know Janish is hitting at this time, but I still trust oCab's bat a bit more. I am not opposed to spot-starting Janish every 3rd or 4th game though.

-Matt

I agree with this. I would not be opposed to dropping OCab down to 6th or 7th in the order though. He has been getting the runs in but he has not been scoring any because he doesn't get on base. Over the course of the season I would prefer to see OCab get 400-450 or so AB's and Janish around 200-250 between SS and 3B/2B when needed.

I think the Hanigan/Hernandez platoon is playing as well as we can expect from it right now. It has been about 60/40 split right now. With a line of .333/.470/.455 1 hr, 11 rbi combined it is performing better than any of us could have expected. If you think back to last season when Ramon was hurt and Hanigan caught full time his numbers took a sharp hit. I think it is the best for us to have Hanigan get no more than 50% of the AB's or his production may drop considerably.

Kingspoint
04-27-2010, 05:43 PM
If Ocab and Ramon keep playing poorly, and there's no reason to think they won't, when will the young guys get a shot? They have been more productive in far less PA's not to mention superior defense.

They aren't "veterans", and Dusty likes veterans.

Krawhitham
04-27-2010, 09:32 PM
Realistically, when could Janish & Hanigan start?

Well maybe when the guy you are trying to replace is not leading the team in RBIs

Peach
04-27-2010, 11:40 PM
I keep hearing how Hanigan should stay the backup because his numbers slid after the all-star break, but what no one here knows is that he was playing all of August/September with a neck and upper back injury.

Up until August, he was putting up pretty damn good numbers for a rookie.

This offseason he worked on his swing and changed it up a bit and now you're seeing a fantastic defensive catcher (one of the best in the league) also becoming a huge asset offensively.

sabometrics
04-28-2010, 12:15 AM
Hanigan should be getting at least a slight majority of the starts, to me that is a no brainer. With the way he plays defense and his hot bat I cannot understand why he should sit in the backup role much longer. Let Ramon catch for Cueto and get the starts when you play a day game after a night game. Play Ryan in all other situations until he cools off.

Janish however I like in his current role. O-Cab hasn't been bad enough with the glove and the bat to warrant a switch. Unlike Hanigan, who has shown he can get on base as well as play the field over an extended period of time, Janish's recent success doesn't seem like anything other than a mirage right now. We've been lucky to get this sort of production out of him thus far, but it would be a rash move to start him regularly.

GIDP
04-28-2010, 12:21 AM
Well maybe when the guy you are trying to replace is not leading the team in RBIs

Old school thinking like this is a problem.

Griffey012
04-28-2010, 01:10 AM
Hanigan should be getting at least a slight majority of the starts, to me that is a no brainer. With the way he plays defense and his hot bat I cannot understand why he should sit in the backup role much longer. Let Ramon catch for Cueto and get the starts when you play a day game after a night game. Play Ryan in all other situations until he cools off.

Janish however I like in his current role. O-Cab hasn't been bad enough with the glove and the bat to warrant a switch. Unlike Hanigan, who has shown he can get on base as well as play the field over an extended period of time, Janish's recent success doesn't seem like anything other than a mirage right now. We've been lucky to get this sort of production out of him thus far, but it would be a rash move to start him regularly.

It looks like Hanigan is going to get more and more starts, I like the way Dusty is handling it though. He is gradually working Hanigan in more and more. With continued success at the plate, I think we will see Hanigan take over the main duties by the end of May, but until then its probably going to be about a 50/50 split, but Dusty did surprise me with the lineup change tonight, so who knows? He as least has to stay in night in and out to ride his ridiculous hot wave.

Kingspoint
04-28-2010, 01:13 AM
Hanigan has 6 more RBI's than Hernandez, and Hernandez always hits in a better RBI spot than Hanigan.

Griffey012
04-28-2010, 09:53 AM
Hanigan has 6 more RBI's than Hernandez, and Hernandez always hits in a better RBI spot than Hanigan.

I am not sure what you are basing this off of. So far this yer Hernandez has hit 6th one game, 7th one game, and 8th the rest. Hanigan has also hit 6th once, 7th once, and 8th the rest (also had 2 pinch hits).

However, you could say Hanigan has 6 more RBI than Hernandez in 15 less plate appearances. Or 6 more RBI in 2 less opportunities with RISP.

nemesis
04-28-2010, 12:53 PM
Hanigan isn't making $6 million over 2 years. Hernandez is. That does play into effect when Dusty makes out his lineup. But if Dusty is wanting to keep his job he needs to be more outside his box as far as lineups go. Moving Hanigan to the 2 hole could be a great start.

Moving Phillips to the 1 hole be even better. Hard to hit into a Phillips or hit a 5 run homer if your leading off the game and hitting after a pitcher who either sacrifised or got out. Move Stubbs to 8th and you have a tidy little lineup...

Phillips
Hanigan
Votto
Rolen
Bruce
Cabrera
Gomes/Nix
Stubbs/Dickerson

ian_madden
04-28-2010, 01:22 PM
I like the platoons. I don't think Hanigan will ever be a star catcher. I think he will be a platoon guy his entire career. But I think he can work into the majority role of that platoon, but not yet. He is off to a great start, I hope he keeps it going.

Janish is what he is, the best ss without a bat. He is seeing the ball well now, but as soon as he has that job, the bat will slip. I do want to see him in the lineup 1 or 2 times a week, as well as a defensive replacement in the 7th or 8th EVERY game. He should get a few more ab a week if we do that.

Griffey012
04-28-2010, 01:38 PM
Hanigan isn't making $6 million over 2 years. Hernandez is. That does play into effect when Dusty makes out his lineup. But if Dusty is wanting to keep his job he needs to be more outside his box as far as lineups go. Moving Hanigan to the 2 hole could be a great start.

Moving Phillips to the 1 hole be even better. Hard to hit into a Phillips or hit a 5 run homer if your leading off the game and hitting after a pitcher who either sacrifised or got out. Move Stubbs to 8th and you have a tidy little lineup...

Phillips
Hanigan
Votto
Rolen
Bruce
Cabrera
Gomes/Nix
Stubbs/Dickerson

Why do we want to move Hanigan out of the 8 hole into the 2 hole when he just had 3 rbi's there last night. He has been producing in the 8 hole all season so far, so why not just let him keep producing there.

1990REDS
04-28-2010, 04:39 PM
Why do we want to move Hanigan out of the 8 hole into the 2 hole when he just had 3 rbi's there last night. He has been producing in the 8 hole all season so far, so why not just let him keep producing there.

I agree, it goes to the old saying if it aint broke then dont fix it and right now hannigan is one of the few things thats not broke.

sivman17
04-28-2010, 04:45 PM
I agree, it goes to the old saying if it aint broke then dont fix it and right now hannigan is one of the few things thats not broke.

Yeah, so Dusty decides to bench him. Seemingly b/c Hanigan has played in 3 of the last 5 games and Hernandez makes 6 mil a year.

Dusty has to realize his time here is nearly up. Who cares who makes the money? Use the lineup that has the best shot of winning that game. You don't bench your hottest player simply because the alternative makes more money.