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13 in hall
04-27-2010, 04:20 PM
8. Stubbs
4. Phillips
3. Votto
5. Rolen
9. Bruce
6. Cabrera
7. Gomes
2. Hanagan
1. Harang

Per John Fey blog. I have no idea how to link so I just copied it. You think this came from up top or Dusty is now thinking to try to save his job?

FlyerFanatic
04-27-2010, 04:25 PM
i think dusty realizes he's in trouble. hes trying to salvage his job at this point

GIDP
04-27-2010, 04:26 PM
Holy wow I cant believe hes moving phillips to a spot more suited for him. Maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks.

SullyGator
04-27-2010, 04:31 PM
No matter who it came from, I really like it.

FlyerFanatic
04-27-2010, 04:42 PM
No matter who it came from, I really like it.

yep. hell we might even lose tonight, but you know what, i dont care. i'm just glad dusty is trying something new

Griffey012
04-27-2010, 04:42 PM
Who is not gonna be surprised if Phillips goes 2-4 and OCab has a couple RBI's? This guy. It's funny I made reference in another thread about moving OCab down, well done Dusty....but why the **** is Gomes in the lineup against a righty do you think he is all the sudden going to hit lefties like righties? 2 steps forward and 1 step back instead of 3 steps forward.

We are scoring 7+ tonight anyway.

bgwilly31
04-27-2010, 04:45 PM
Yeah i agree with this lineup.

The only downfall here is stubbs bat is in the toilet right now.

Kingspoint
04-27-2010, 04:45 PM
Daugherty's written the REDS off already while giving Dusty a "free pass" for the season. Hey, Paul. He even tries to say Dusty did a good job with the Cubs, in a back-handed way.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/daugherty/2010/04/27/the-morning-line-427/

2. Lineups and in-game moves mean little when you don’t have the players to execute the moves. So D. Baker gets a pass there.

What a tool, Daugherty! Why don't you just tell all the fans to give away any tickets they've already purchased and find something better to do with their lives than pay attention to REDS' games. Master of the Obvious, he points out that no one can win with Arroyo and Harang pitching the way they are, and that the players' "dumb play" is a direct reflection of Baker's managerial "style". How about the fact that Dusty is just a bad Manager, and always has been? The only reason he won in San Fran was because he had loads of talent, and the greatest steroid freak in the history of sports.


As far as this lineup, everyone in REDSZONE knew that Cabrera's OBP was nothing but Taveras and Patterson, Part Trois, and also, that Stubbs should be starting along with Dickerson, but Stubbs bats 7th or 8th and Dickerson should lead off every day for several months; a player who's proven throughout his short career that he can get on base (and who happens to be in his "prime years"). God forbid common sense would ever reign with a Baker lineup.

Kingspoint
04-27-2010, 04:46 PM
Who is not gonna be surprised if Phillips goes 2-4 and OCab has a couple RBI's? This guy. It's funny I made reference in another thread about moving OCab down, well done Dusty.

We are scoring 7+ tonight.

......while Harang gives up 9+.

Seriously, I hope Harang's on notice that he's only got a handful of starts to put it together......OR ELSE!

GIDP
04-27-2010, 04:46 PM
Phillips in front of Votto is nothing but good for Phillips and Votto. Rolen behind Votto is great because its protection and it will give Rolen and Bruce plenty of RBI chances. I hope it stays.

RedLakerFan24
04-27-2010, 04:51 PM
Yess, But i was hoping something like

Cabrera
Phillips
Votto
Rolen
Bruce
Stubbs
Gomez
Hanigan

Kingspoint
04-27-2010, 04:58 PM
Yess, But i was hoping something like

Cabrera
Phillips
Votto
Rolen
Bruce
Stubbs
Gomez
Hanigan

Are Pugsly and Wednesday are our "bat"-boy and "bat"-girl?

Jack Burton
04-27-2010, 05:00 PM
This one is definitely better, I'll give it that.

Vottomatic
04-27-2010, 05:07 PM
I'm glad Dusty took my advice. It's obvious he reads Redszone and focuses on my comments. ;)

muddie
04-27-2010, 05:08 PM
......while Harang gives up 9+.

Seriously, I hope Harang's on notice that he's only got a handful of starts to put it together......OR ELSE!

Bingo! Murderer's Row couldn't keep this guy out of the ditch right now.

sivman17
04-27-2010, 05:25 PM
I like that B Phil is 2nd, but I don't like Stubbs leading off and I don't like OC batting behind Bruce. I would put Hanigan behind Bruce with the way Hanigan has been hitting. Why have a guy that's batting .462 in the 8 spot, just because he's a catcher?

MBZags
04-27-2010, 05:27 PM
Yess, But i was hoping something like

Cabrera
Phillips
Votto
Rolen
Bruce
Stubbs
Gomez
Hanigan

If Cabrera were to bat leadoff, he'd definitely have to change his free-swinging tendencies, which I don't see happening. His OBP is a pretty miserable .267, though Stubbs isn't much better at .273. To his credit, however, Stubbs has been much more patient at the plate this year; he's seen the second most pitches per AB in the NL, I think.

Regardless, I really like the lineup and am glad Dusty finally made a change. It certainly took him long enough.

sivman17
04-27-2010, 05:31 PM
To his credit, however, Stubbs has been much more patient at the plate this year; he's seen the second most pitches per AB in the NL, I think.

To be honest, I am kind of tired of hearing this stat about Stubbs. I'd rather see him up the hacking and try to use his speed to get on base. For as patient as he is, he hasn't drawn that many walks.

He is patient, but he also strikes out very frequently. Like Dusty said, put the ball in play and see what happens.

GIDP
04-27-2010, 05:39 PM
To be honest, I am kind of tired of hearing this stat about Stubbs. I'd rather see him up the hacking and try to use his speed to get on base. For as patient as he is, he hasn't drawn that many walks.

He is patient, but he also strikes out very frequently. Like Dusty said, put the ball in play and see what happens.

Hes drawn a walk in 12.1% of his PA this year. 3rd on the team. 75th highest in the majors amongst player with more than 40 PA.

Kingspoint
04-27-2010, 05:41 PM
I like that B Phil is 2nd, but I don't like Stubbs leading off and I don't like OC batting behind Bruce. I would put Hanigan behind Bruce with the way Hanigan has been hitting. Why have a guy that's batting .462 in the 8 spot, just because he's a catcher?

And who, by his career numbers, has a better OBP than anyone on the team?

sivman17
04-27-2010, 05:52 PM
Hes drawn a walk in 12.1% of his PA this year. 3rd on the team. 75th highest in the majors amongst player with more than 40 PA.

He's struck out in 36.8% of his at bats. Just for reference, Adam Dunn has struck out in 32.4% of his at bats for his career.

sivman17
04-27-2010, 05:53 PM
And who, by his career numbers, has a better OBP than anyone on the team?

Jo Vo.. but I'm not talking about him. Hanigan has the next best I do believe. And he's batting 8th. Genius, Dusty.

ILoveWilly
04-27-2010, 06:08 PM
It's better, but it doesn't really matter much if we can't get a hit by anyone. Lineup squabbling is for the fans of teams who actually have some players or a manager that gives a damn.

GIDP
04-27-2010, 06:09 PM
He's struck out in 36.8% of his at bats. Just for reference, Adam Dunn has struck out in 32.4% of his at bats for his career.

Doesnt change the fact that you were wrong about his walks.

Griffey012
04-27-2010, 06:12 PM
To be honest, I am kind of tired of hearing this stat about Stubbs. I'd rather see him up the hacking and try to use his speed to get on base. For as patient as he is, he hasn't drawn that many walks.

He is patient, but he also strikes out very frequently. Like Dusty said, put the ball in play and see what happens.

Are you Dusty himself?


I like that B Phil is 2nd, but I don't like Stubbs leading off and I don't like OC batting behind Bruce. I would put Hanigan behind Bruce with the way Hanigan has been hitting. Why have a guy that's batting .462 in the 8 spot, just because he's a catcher?

The thing is Hanigan thrives in an under the radar role. I would rather have him continue his tear in the 8 hole then potentially stop it by moving him up. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. On a side note, I caught a few innings of Sunday Night Baseball this past week before the rain came, and Joe Morgan had an interesting point that in the NL you want your worst position hitter batting 7th and not 8th, because you want the guy in front of the pitcher to get on more often to get the pitcher up with a runner on so he can bunt. Using this logic it makes sense as to why Hanigan is staying in the 8 spot.

mattfeet
04-27-2010, 06:32 PM
Phillips in front of Votto is nothing but good for Phillips and Votto. Rolen behind Votto is great because its protection and it will give Rolen and Bruce plenty of RBI chances. I hope it stays.

Couldn't agree more. This is soooo exciting!

-Matt

sivman17
04-27-2010, 06:39 PM
Doesnt change the fact that you were wrong about his walks.

I wouldn't say I was wrong about his walks. I actually looked up his walks before I posted that and did not think that 8 walks was that many for a leadoff man who is supposedly very "patient." I guess it's subjective whether you think he walks a lot or not. I guess 8 walks sounds like a lot when the guy only has 9 hits.

And my point was that who cares if a guy is "patient" if he can't hit, strikes out a lot, and doesn't have a bunch of walks.

sivman17
04-27-2010, 06:45 PM
The thing is Hanigan thrives in an under the radar role. I would rather have him continue his tear in the 8 hole then potentially stop it by moving him up. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. On a side note, I caught a few innings of Sunday Night Baseball this past week before the rain came, and Joe Morgan had an interesting point that in the NL you want your worst position hitter batting 7th and not 8th, because you want the guy in front of the pitcher to get on more often to get the pitcher up with a runner on so he can bunt. Using this logic it makes sense as to why Hanigan is staying in the 8 spot.

I agree with that somewhat... but what if Hanigan gets up with 2 outs? Chances are he will since Cabrera and Gomes are in front of him. Then Hanigan won't hit anybody in, and Harang can't bunt him over.

If he gets up with 1 out and nobody on, Hanigan can't hit anybody in. Harang bunts him over, then Stubbs leads him stranded.

I would have Bruce, Hanigan, Cabrera, Gomes, Harang at the bottom of the lineup. But, that's just me.

kfm
04-27-2010, 06:57 PM
I am trying to understand something about the excitement over tonights lineup. Brandon Phillips has a career obp of .312. Orlando Cabrerra has a career obp of .321. Is it that we think Brandon will hit better in the 2 spot because Votto is in front of him, or is because he will better be able to use his speed in the two hole or is it because it gets him out of the four hole. I am just trying to understand what the perspective is on this.

FlyerFanatic
04-27-2010, 06:59 PM
I am trying to understand something about the excitement over tonights lineup. Brandon Phillips has a career obp of .312. Orlando Cabrerra has a career obp of .321. Is it that we think Brandon will hit better in the 2 spot because Votto is in front of him, or is because he will better be able to use his speed in the two hole or is it because it gets him out of the four hole. I am just trying to understand what the perspective is on this.

GIDP summed it up pretty nicely. that and its something different.

GIDP
04-27-2010, 07:04 PM
I wouldn't say I was wrong about his walks. I actually looked up his walks before I posted that and did not think that 8 walks was that many for a leadoff man who is supposedly very "patient." I guess it's subjective whether you think he walks a lot or not. I guess 8 walks sounds like a lot when the guy only has 9 hits.

And my point was that who cares if a guy is "patient" if he can't hit, strikes out a lot, and doesn't have a bunch of walks.

Dont let the numbers get in the way of what you said.

sivman17
04-27-2010, 07:17 PM
Dont let the numbers get in the way of what you said.

Riiight.. and don't let Stubbs's lousy numbers lead you to think that he is worthy of leading off on an MLB team.

GIDP
04-27-2010, 07:19 PM
Riiight.. and don't let Stubbs's lousy numbers lead you to think that he is worthy of leading off on an MLB team.

The correct response would be "Oh I guess im wrong about him taking walks"

kfm
04-27-2010, 07:25 PM
I hope this works out better but what I see are two guys at the top of the order who still don't get on base very much. I see a fourth place hitter who is not a fourth place hitter. I am glad to see something different, but it looks like this lineup with different names in different spots still has the same issue that the other lineups had.

winks
04-27-2010, 07:34 PM
I love it. I play Mlb 10 the show and this is the lineup I use except Dickerson plays Lf. I also liked redsfanlaker24's lineup

PhillipsHead
04-27-2010, 07:34 PM
Phillips at 2!!!!! Finally!!!!

sivman17
04-27-2010, 07:36 PM
The correct response would be "Oh I guess im wrong about him taking walks"

Haha ok, buddy. You're right. Eight walks is a lot for the 2nd most patient batter in the ML. :rolleyes:

Kingspoint
04-27-2010, 07:45 PM
On a side note, I caught a few innings of Sunday Night Baseball this past week before the rain came, and Joe Morgan had an interesting point that in the NL you want your worst position hitter batting 7th and not 8th, because you want the guy in front of the pitcher to get on more often to get the pitcher up with a runner on so he can bunt. Using this logic it makes sense as to why Hanigan is staying in the 8 spot.

That's one philosophy.

I personally like the lineup of the 1976 Cincinnati Reds and strive for every lineup to look like that.

1. Switch-hitter, high-average, high-double guy, don't care about speed, but smart-base runner so that he takes advantage of every extra base that's available. Think Pete Rose.

2. LH or RH, doesn't matter, as long as it's the opposite of the next guy up to bat. High-average, high-OBP, guy with speed. The average is necessary to move the runner over (can't have strikeouts here). The speed is to prevent double-plays and to be able to steal 2nd base in case the batter in front of him doesn't get on base. Power isn't necessary here (Morgan's was a bonus). Think Chone Figgins.

3. Opposite LH/RH of #2 hitter. High Average hitter w/ power. Your highest OPS player on the team,... usually,... unless it's warped like Adam Dunn's and his low average. If 1st or 2nd player doesn't get on base, but the other does, this guy either becomes the 2nd player to reach base in the inning or drives one in and takes his place. Think Joey Votto.

4. Uber-clutch hitter w/ power. Doesn't have to have high-average, but can't have low-to-medium average (.260 or less). Adam Dunn is not a #3 or #4 hitter, as his average is way too low. Walks aren't important for this player. This guy's not supposed to be walking and/or taking any good pitches. That's the opposite of this guy's responsibilities. His job is to drive in runs. He's an RBI-machine. He makes contact. He puts the ball in play. He drives the ball to the outfield. He gets singles, doubles, and homeruns....no walks. Doesn't matter if he's LH or RH. Think Yonder Alonso.

5. The same power, but with less average than the #4 hitter. Opposite hitter as far as LH/RH goes from #4. He's often up with 2 outs and a runner or two on base. Another clutch hitter (think Jay Buhner). He'll get as many RBI's as he gets hits. He won't get very many singles, but he'll knock out 30 homeruns, and most will be with runners on base. He'll either knock in a run or make the last out of the inning.

6. This guy will lead off a lot of innings in this lineup. But, because the pitcher's spot will bat fourth, it's imperative that he be able to get himself to 2nd base as quickly as possible and give the #7 and #8 hitters a chance to knock him in with a single. This guy then, must have speed and a good OBP. If he had speed and a great OBP, he'd be batting 2nd. But, a .280/.340 guy who cant steal 30 bases while being caught only 10 times would be ideal here. He can get 30-35 doubles with his speed, and get to 2nd base with his stolen base and singles and walks. He can score from 1st base on a single by the #7 or #8 hitters. Think Drew Stubbs.

7. This guy needs to be a singles hitter. High-average, not-so-high OBP. Doesn't need power or speed, but to be able to drive in the #6 hitter from 1st or 2nd with a hard single. This guy should hit .290+. Think Orlando Cabrera.

8. This guy needs to be able to get a double out of bad pitches. He's never going to be able to see a good pitch with the pitcher hitting behind him. He's the last guy who can get a run for the team before the pitcher ends the inning. In case the #7 guy is on 1st base, he needs to drive him in with a drive to the wall. Hopefully, the guy can also get on base at a .320 clip so the pitcher doesn't lead off an inning. Think Terry Steinbach.

Kingspoint
04-27-2010, 07:47 PM
I love it. I play Mlb 10 the show and this is the lineup I use except Dickerson plays Lf. I also liked redsfanlaker24's lineup

With Dickerson in LF is the lineup that should be used, where Dickerson leads off, and Stubbs is in the bottom half of the lineup (I'd bat him 6th and Cabrera 7th). We're not winning in 2010, so why start Gomes? Let's give Dickerson lot's of playing time and see if he continue to do what he's done so far in his career.....get on base a lot.

GIDP
04-27-2010, 07:47 PM
Haha ok, buddy. You're right. Eight walks is a lot for the 2nd most patient batter in the ML. :rolleyes:

?

Kingspoint
04-27-2010, 07:48 PM
I hope this works out better but what I see are two guys at the top of the order who still don't get on base very much. I see a fourth place hitter who is not a fourth place hitter. I am glad to see something different, but it looks like this lineup with different names in different spots still has the same issue that the other lineups had.

I agree. Not much gets solved if you're not putting players in the 1-2 hole for Votto to hit in.

Griffey012
04-27-2010, 08:10 PM
I hope this works out better but what I see are two guys at the top of the order who still don't get on base very much. I see a fourth place hitter who is not a fourth place hitter. I am glad to see something different, but it looks like this lineup with different names in different spots still has the same issue that the other lineups had.

Problem is we don't have anyone to put on the 1 and 2 spots with high OBP's. You can argue Dickerson but he has looked pretty lost at the plate thus far like Stubbs. We can put Hanigan at one when he is catching, but otherwise we just don't have it.

I think Phillips gets on at a much higher clip with a change in mental mentality going from #4 to #2. Instead of "I need to mash and drive in runs" its "I need to drive the ball and get on." He can be a .290 hitter with that mentality. He has increased his walks and cut down on k's the past 3 seasons. He should be able to put up a .340-.350 OBP in this spot with that mentality. Let's hope he adopts it back.

Kingspoint
04-27-2010, 08:13 PM
Problem is we don't have anyone to put on the 1 and 2 spots with high OBP's. You can argue Dickerson but he has looked pretty lost at the plate thus far like Stubbs. We can put Hanigan at one when he is catching, but otherwise we just don't have it.

I think Phillips gets on at a much higher clip with a change in mental mentality going from #4 to #2. Instead of "I need to mash and drive in runs" its "I need to drive the ball and get on." He can be a .290 hitter with that mentality. He has increased his walks and cut down on k's the past 3 seasons. He should be able to put up a .340-.350 OBP in this spot with that mentality. Let's hope he adopts it back.

We have it. We've had it for the past 1.9 years.

Dickerson has proved he can get on base. He has 500 PA's to show for it that he can. He needs to be put in there every day without worry of whether or not he does well, and let it go. Let him have 300 AB's on the season before deciding whether he "doesn't have it".

Phillips at #2 is perfect with Dickerson at #1.

Would it be such a bad thing to put a Catcher in the #2 hole? Many a team have put their Catchers in the 1-2-3 holes with success. So, he doesn't steal bases. He gets on base, and that's more important when you have Votto coming up to bat next.

sivman17
04-27-2010, 08:35 PM
I hate Stubbs. I hate Harang. These two should never start again. They are so bad.

BigPoppa
04-27-2010, 08:57 PM
I like BP somewhere else other than cleanup, especially with how Rolen is doing so far.

I've been an advocate for hitting Hanigan in the 2 hole....but with BPhil there now, what about the Pitcher hitting 8th and Hanigan 9th ?

He tends to draw walks and would be sort of a pre-leadoff man leadoff man.

Redlegs_87
04-28-2010, 11:21 AM
Even though we won tonight our 1-4 hitters were atrocious going 1-16.

GIDP
04-28-2010, 11:24 AM
I hope he does it again tonight.

FlyerFanatic
04-28-2010, 12:26 PM
I hope he does it again tonight.

agreed. give this lineup some more time, see how it goes

ian_madden
04-28-2010, 02:38 PM
my favorite lineup would be:

C Dick/Stubbs LF/CF
Votto 1b
BP 2nd
Rolen 3rd
Bruce RF
Ocab SS
Stubbs/C Dick/Gomes Cf/LF
Hanagan Hernandez C

I would also pinch hit Janish in the 6th or 7th depending on the starting pitcher's performance. He would stay in to relieve Ocab. This will give Ocab rest every game, he's getting older, and Janish gets valuable ab's.

Rolen wouldn't play more than 5 games a week, or 1 full weekend off a month to keep him healthy.

Redlegs_87
04-28-2010, 02:46 PM
Tonights Lineup:
Stubbs
Phillips
Votto
Rolen
Bruce
Cabrera
Nix
Hernandez
Leake

EDIT: I am so off today my bad.

1990REDS
04-28-2010, 04:19 PM
Tonights Lineup:
Stubbs
Phillips
Votto
Rolen
Bruce
Cabrera
Hernandez

Is thier a reason that hannigan is not playing tonight (not being sarcastic, but wondering if thier is a actual reason. pitcher, injury etc.) Just as someone who has watched baseball all his life and has a decent grasp of the game, i would think that when someone is hot like hannigan is you would want to play him. It cant be because of his offence and he has also been playing well defensively (threw 2 guys out last night).

sivman17
04-28-2010, 04:28 PM
Tonights Lineup:
Stubbs
Phillips
Votto
Rolen
Bruce
Cabrera
Hernandez

Wow, that's great, Dusty. Stubbs goes 0-3 last night with 2 Ks and looked terrible at the plate and he leads off again. Not to mention that Dickerson bats .278 against righties while Stubbs bats .195, but no Dicky in the lineup.

Ahhh I just don't understand why Stubbs continues to start!! :bang:

Oh, and Hanigan is 8 for his last 11 with 5 RBI and he sits. Great.

1990REDS
04-28-2010, 04:35 PM
Wow, that's great, Dusty. Stubbs goes 0-3 last night with 2 Ks and looked terrible at the plate and he leads off again. Not to mention that Dickerson bats .278 against righties while Stubbs bats .195, but no Dicky in the lineup.

Ahhh I just don't understand why Stubbs continues to start!! :bang:

Oh, and Hanigan is 8 for his last 11 with 5 RBI and he sits. Great.

you would think that they would have learned last year with tavares that speed only helps when you actually get on base.

FlyerFanatic
04-28-2010, 05:25 PM
Wow, that's great, Dusty. Stubbs goes 0-3 last night with 2 Ks and looked terrible at the plate and he leads off again. Not to mention that Dickerson bats .278 against righties while Stubbs bats .195, but no Dicky in the lineup.

Ahhh I just don't understand why Stubbs continues to start!! :bang:

Oh, and Hanigan is 8 for his last 11 with 5 RBI and he sits. Great.

baby steps...i'm just glad dusty changed the lineup up a bit. still, simply amazing dusty doesnt start hanigan.

sivman17
04-28-2010, 05:32 PM
baby steps...i'm just glad dusty changed the lineup up a bit. still, simply amazing dusty doesnt start hanigan.

True dat.

Another point about Hanigan and Hernandez: Hernandez was O for 5 against Paulino last year while Hanigan was 1 for 2. Not that that's a big deal, but usually Dusty loves batter-pitcher stats like that.

Griffey012
04-28-2010, 07:08 PM
I originally assumed Hernandez must be Leake's personal catcher. Than I looked and Hernandez hasn't caught Leake since his first start. Well done Dusty, worse offense and defense in the lineup....makes zero sense.

And Hanigan isn't in need of a day off either.

For all of you clamoring for Dickerson in the leadoff spot, they have both been putrid thus far in the lead-off spot and getting on base at an equal Taveras like clip of .230...its half a dozen of one, six of the other.

Kingspoint
04-28-2010, 08:02 PM
Even though we won tonight our 1-4 hitters were atrocious going 1-16.

Tonight, they'll go 7-16.

Kingspoint
04-28-2010, 10:23 PM
Tonight, they'll go 7-16.

Not quite 7-16.

But, 5-17 w/ 3 BB's, 2-2B's, 1-3B, 3-BB's, 4-R, & 3-RBI is very good.

BLEEDS
04-29-2010, 11:34 AM
I don't care what else goes on this year, if BP can STAY in the 2 hole - or basically anywhere other than the 4 hole - I'll be one happy camper.

I think cleanup is too much pressure for him. He's better if he's patient, tries to go the other way, etc... If he can try to go to the other way to move the runner, I think he might find his groove back.
We can only hope.



PEACE

-BLEEDS

Griffey012
04-29-2010, 01:10 PM
Maybe Dusty encouraging Stubbs to swing at fastballs down the middle early in the count has helped. I know everyone ripped on Dusty for it but he has now been on base 4 of his last 9 ab's, with 2 BB. Still walking a few times, but there is no reason to ever take a fastball down the dick unless if the pitchers is not throwing many pitches to anyone. And Dusty doesn't mean a pitcher's pitch on the black, he is talking about taking an easy get ahead fastball that is comparable to a 3-0 fastball.

sivman17
04-29-2010, 02:48 PM
Per Mark Sheldon.. Lineup for Tonight (4/29)

Dickerson 8
Phillips 4
Votto 3
Rolen 5
Bruce 9
Cabrera 6
Nix 7
Hanigan 2
Arroyo 1

This is the lineup I would love to see everyday. Very good, Dusty.

BLEEDS
04-29-2010, 03:44 PM
Per Mark Sheldon.. Lineup for Tonight (4/29)

Dickerson 8
Phillips 4
Votto 3
Rolen 5
Bruce 9
Cabrera 6
Nix 7
Hanigan 2
Arroyo 1

This is the lineup I would love to see everyday. Very good, Dusty.

You want to see Nix play every day?!?! UGH!

I do like the first 5 better than any other though. Bruce in the 6 hole was about the biggest waste I've ever seen.

If we go:
CF Stubbs/Dickerson
BP
Votto
Rolen
Bruce
LF
SS
C
P

then I agree with you...
IFF we had a SS that could actually get on base, then I swap BP with him, and THAT is your ideal lineup.
BP is realistically a #6 hole guy, mis-cast just about everywhere else in the lineup.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

sivman17
04-29-2010, 04:34 PM
You want to see Nix play every day?!?! UGH!

I do like the first 5 better than any other though. Bruce in the 6 hole was about the biggest waste I've ever seen.

If we go:
CF Stubbs/Dickerson
BP
Votto
Rolen
Bruce
LF
SS
C
P

then I agree with you...
IFF we had a SS that could actually get on base, then I swap BP with him, and THAT is your ideal lineup.
BP is realistically a #6 hole guy, mis-cast just about everywhere else in the lineup.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Well I didn't necessarily mean I want Nix playing everyday. I guess I should have specified that. But, I am glad Stubbs isn't playing and leading off, I'm glad OC isn't batting in the 2 hole. I'm glad Hanigan is playing, too. I would actually have Hanigan batting in the 6 or 7 hole, but I guess since he's doing so well in the 8 hole you keep him there.

If Stubbs can ever figure out his game then I would rather have an OF of Dickerson, Stubbs, Bruce, rather than Gomes/Nix, Stubbs/Dickerson, Bruce. But, Stubbs isn't hitting, Dicky isn't hitting, Nix and Gomes never hit. At the current time with the way guys are hitting, I do like this lineup for today.

I would like to see Janish play a little more though.

Griffey012
04-29-2010, 04:34 PM
Per Mark Sheldon.. Lineup for Tonight (4/29)

Dickerson 8
Phillips 4
Votto 3
Rolen 5
Bruce 9
Cabrera 6
Nix 7
Hanigan 2
Arroyo 1

This is the lineup I would love to see everyday. Very good, Dusty.

Dude's on a roll. How about a lead of bunt from CD? Oswalt will probably tweak his groin making the play.

sivman17
04-29-2010, 05:13 PM
And just because I like looking at stats.. here is how the players fared against Oswalt last year:

Dickerson: 3-9, K
Phillips: 2-7, 2B, K
Votto: 4-12, 2 2B, 2 Ks
Rolen: 0-1
Bruce: 2-10
Cabrera: No AB
Nix: 3-6, 2B, HR (which would explain why he is playing tonight)
Hanigan: No AB
Arroyo

Bench
Hernandez: 1-6
Janish: 2-3
Gomes: 0-0, BB
Stubbs: 1-3, HR

Kingspoint
04-29-2010, 05:15 PM
I don't care what else goes on this year, if BP can STAY in the 2 hole - or basically anywhere other than the 4 hole - I'll be one happy camper.

I think cleanup is too much pressure for him. He's better if he's patient, tries to go the other way, etc... If he can try to go to the other way to move the runner, I think he might find his groove back.
We can only hope.



PEACE

-BLEEDS

It's really been unfair to him. He's not that kind of player. While he came through with a stellar BA w/ RISP while in the #4 hole, it's just not his style of Offense. It's asking him to be something he's not.

Kingspoint
04-29-2010, 05:20 PM
Per Mark Sheldon.. Lineup for Tonight (4/29)

Dickerson 8
Phillips 4
Votto 3
Rolen 5
Bruce 9
Cabrera 6
Nix 7
Hanigan 2
Arroyo 1

This is the lineup I would love to see everyday. Very good, Dusty.

Maybe this can be the 2nd lineup in the history of the REDS (the 31st start) to beat Roy Oswalt, and join that stellar company of Brandon Claussen. Brandon Phillips is the only RED in this lineup to have been a RED in the original lineup that won that game (per Doc).