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View Full Version : Cordero's innings through April



lollipopcurve
05-01-2010, 09:44 AM
The last 3 years Cordero has thrown 63, 66 and 70 innings.

This year, having thrown 13 and a third through April, he's on pace for 94.

hebroncougar
05-01-2010, 10:02 AM
It stinks when you have a winning record, your closer throws more.

Roy Tucker
05-01-2010, 10:03 AM
Dusty has ridden him pretty hard this week out of necessity. Masset hasn't quite got his mojo going yet.

HokieRed
05-01-2010, 10:04 AM
If this team does get serious and Dusty's got to use multiple relievers night after night--as I hope--we're going to need a couple, maybe several, additional arms to get through. Do we know anything about Burton or even Bray's status?

mbgrayson
05-01-2010, 10:15 AM
Good observation. My math comes out a little different though. The Reds are 23 games into the season. If you divide 23 games by 162 game schedule, that is 14.1975% of the year. That leaves 85.80% of the games to play. That works out to about 1/6th of the schedule down, 5/6 yet to go. Multiply his 13 and a a third innings times six, and you get about 80 innings.

I agree that, as many have said on the game threads, Dusty needs to let someone else pitch those non-save sitautions, and even those games with a three run lead.

Of course a lot of this usage has come in the last week. Prior to the last week, Cordero's pace was fairly similiar to past years. SInce 4/25 (last Sunday), Cordero has thrown 4 and 2/3 innings in five appearances.

forfreelin04
05-01-2010, 10:27 AM
Be upset with Dusty about bringing Coco in in nonsave situations. I wouldn't worry about much else. I read an article yesterday that proposed Chapman be the next closer.

forfreelin04
05-01-2010, 10:28 AM
It stinks when you have a winning record, your closer throws more.

Stinks worse when he isn't needed

Sea Ray
05-01-2010, 10:45 AM
It's not anything to worry about yet but what does bother me is that Dusty won't consider using anyone else in a save situation. I think Dusty has to get past that mental block, possibly starting tonight.

traderumor
05-01-2010, 11:01 AM
It's not anything to worry about yet but what does bother me is that Dusty won't consider using anyone else in a save situation. I think Dusty has to get past that mental block, possibly starting tonight.Dusty, or any other modern manager.

hebroncougar
05-01-2010, 11:09 AM
Stinks worse when he isn't needed

11 of his 14 appearances have been in save situations. One of those was 4/7, the Wednesday after opening day, I'm sure that was just to keep him from going 4 days w/o an appearance. So 11 of 13 appearances have been in save situations.

VR
05-01-2010, 12:32 PM
I think we'd all agree the Reds aren't going to continue only getting wins in these tight, last at bat types of wins.

They need to start getting a few pounders, that will help ease the pressure on everyone.

mth123
05-01-2010, 12:43 PM
I think we'd all agree the Reds aren't going to continue only getting wins in these tight, last at bat types of wins.

They need to start getting a few pounders, that will help ease the pressure on everyone.

So would another arm.

VR
05-01-2010, 12:50 PM
So would another arm.

Perhaps....but a blowout every week does wonders to the overall health of the pen. The kind where it's 4-0 after an inning and they just keep adding on and not letting the other guys up.

Reds have yet to have one.

It is also good to get your bench some ab's to keep them fresh.

OnBaseMachine
05-01-2010, 01:01 PM
According to John Fay's twitter, Arthur Rhodes will close today if needed.

Captain Hook
05-01-2010, 01:24 PM
I understand the idea that a blowout helps the BP a bit but what the team really needs is for the starters to consistently pitch a solid number of innings.Short outings from the starter have hurt the BP much more then the close game have this year.

Tom Servo
05-01-2010, 01:28 PM
The Reds really need another good righthander in the pen. Masset has looked fairly awful to this point and Lincoln is amazingly inconsistent.

nate
05-01-2010, 01:32 PM
So far this year, an average NL starter goes 5.8 innings/start. Arroyo averages 5.9 and Leake, 6.9. Everyone else is at 5.4-5.5.

It would be cool to get those starters going a bit deeper in games.

TheNext44
05-01-2010, 02:04 PM
It's not anything to worry about yet but what does bother me is that Dusty won't consider using anyone else in a save situation. I think Dusty has to get past that mental block, possibly starting tonight.

I agree. The 1990 team had two players with 10 or more saves and five players with 2 or more saves. I seriously doubt that anyone other than Cordero will get 2 more more saves this season for the Reds, no matter the situations that arise.

But that has more to do with contracts than anything. Cordero's agent would throw a fit if Rhodes or Masset starting taking saves away from Cordero more than a few times.

_Sir_Charles_
05-01-2010, 02:04 PM
So far this year, an average NL starter goes 5.8 innings/start. Arroyo averages 5.9 and Leake, 6.9. Everyone else is at 5.4-5.5.

It would be cool to get those starters going a bit deeper in games.

Agreed. And since that Padres game when Dusty chewed everybody out...everything's improved. The hitting, the pitching (starting going deeper), the baserunning, etc. Things are moving in the right direction now. I'm not too worried.

Also, in regards to fresh arms in the pen...the Louisville arms will straighten out too. Of course Dusty actually USING Fisher might help. Did he pitch at all last night? I crashed after the game went into the rain delay. If he didn't...he hasn't been used ONCE since the callup.

REDblooded
05-01-2010, 02:44 PM
A friend of mine informed me last night that Matthew Leach had posted on his twitter account that according to Bill James's website right now Cordero has the highest fatigue factor of any closer in baseball...

fearofpopvol1
05-01-2010, 03:03 PM
As tough as I am on Dusty sometimes, I don't blame him much for this. As a manager, I don't think you plan on your team playing in all these close games each night.

However, since it has happened now, time to give CoCo a rest. I'd like to see him get 2 days off.

Captain Hook
05-01-2010, 03:17 PM
Agreed. And since that Padres game when Dusty chewed everybody out...everything's improved. The hitting, the pitching (starting going deeper), the baserunning, etc. Things are moving in the right direction now. I'm not too worried.

I think that's the true importance of a manager.When things aren't going well can the skipper motivate the team to pull their heads out of their butts and play some good baseball?I've never been a big fan of Dusty but I have to believe that something he said sparked the team.Credit is due.

mth123
05-01-2010, 03:31 PM
I'd say the poor start by the starters and Masset are the primary culprit. Some easy games would help, but if Masset doesn't return to 09 form, they need another arm. They may need one anyway.

RedsManRick
05-01-2010, 03:59 PM
It stinks when you have a winning record, your closer throws more.

Not true actually. There's very little correlation between wins and save opportunities. Good teams tend to win by more runs than bad ones.

It's just that most managers aren't 100% beholden to the save stat the way Dusty is. He'd rather risk injury and poor performance than risk making a player, especially a veteran, upset.

I wonder how many other closers have been asked to pitch 4 consecutive nights and 5 of 6 this year?

Maybe I'm crazy, but if I can't count on a guy to get 3 outs before giving up a 3 run lead, I wouldn't want him on my staff in any capacity. It's not like Dusty's entire pen is tired. Both Owings and Fisher haven't pitched since Apr 23rd. This is a problem of Dusty's creation.

HokieRed
05-01-2010, 04:14 PM
Agree with RMR that Owings and Fisher either have to be used or they need to be in L'ville. Keeping Owings, in particular, as a long man is a luxury I don't think we can afford; he needs to be able to do regular one inning stints and occasionally throw a couple of innings. Maybe there hasn't been an ideal place to spot Fisher in yet but Dusty's going to have to do so soon. I still think the answer to most of the thread is all of the above: we need starters to go longer, the team to pound out some good, relaxing wins, Dusty to use CoCo only in save situations, and we need at least one--and very likely more--additional arms.

RedsManRick
05-01-2010, 04:16 PM
And by not using a guy like Fisher or Owings to protect a 2 or 3 run lead at some point during the last week, now Dusty is very possibly going to have to use one of them late in a tie game instead.

HokieRed
05-01-2010, 04:24 PM
And by not using a guy like Fisher or Owings to protect a 2 or 3 run lead at some point during the last week, now Dusty is very possibly going to have to use one of them late in a tie game instead.

Absolutely. I still cannot understand why Dusty used Cordero the first night in Houston. WJ should be looking right now for two more guys Dusty has confidence in enough to use, and he should be doing it to protect his starters.

OnBaseMachine
05-01-2010, 05:02 PM
I'd love to see the Reds sign Juan Cruz.

lollipopcurve
05-01-2010, 09:44 PM
My math comes out a little different though. The Reds are 23 games into the season. If you divide 23 games by 162 game schedule, that is 14.1975% of the year. That leaves 85.80% of the games to play. That works out to about 1/6th of the schedule down, 5/6 yet to go. Multiply his 13 and a a third innings times six, and you get about 80 innings.

Nope. 23 games is 1/7th of a season, not 1/6th. My math is correct -- he's on pace for 94.

Under the current system, this bullpen cannot hold up, especially if the team is having a good season.