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_Sir_Charles_
05-03-2010, 06:14 PM
2011 Contract Issues: Cincinnati Reds (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/05/2011-contract-issues-cincinnati-reds.html)

By Tim Dierkes [May 3 at 4:38pm CST]
The Reds face a slew of contractual options after the season:


Aaron Harang (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/haranaa01.shtml) has a $12.75MM club option with a $2MM buyout. The option price increases by $250K if Harang reaches 210 innings. Plus, both the option price and buyout increase if he's traded. If Harang stays with the Reds through the season, they'll decline.
Bronson Arroyo (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/arroybr01.shtml) has an $11MM club option with a $2MM buyout. The option can increase to $13MM based on innings pitched. I envision the Reds declining this as well, giving them flexibility to sign a veteran replacement.


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/05/2011-contract-issues-cincinnati-reds.html <--- (Click here for the rest)

Thought some might find this interesting.

nate
05-03-2010, 06:21 PM
At this point, I'd guess they wave take all the buyouts/let 'em walk. There will be raises and arbitration a-comin' and some of the more glaring holes could be plugged with the remaining dosh.

Joseph
05-03-2010, 06:23 PM
I think we need at least one veteran on the staff that can be a 'leader'. Coco fills the role at worst.

I do not think its a stretch to say both these gents are gone next season. If either/both begin to produce but we are out of contention I think both are dealt at the deadline. Both will clear waivers so it might not be til the August deadline.

HokieRed
05-03-2010, 06:30 PM
2 million to each of Harang and Arroyo plus a 5 million raise owed to BP. 9 million gone without improving the team a whit.

TheNext44
05-03-2010, 06:52 PM
I think the only two big holes for next season, barring injuries/trades are LF and the 5th starter.

Here the team next season as I see it:

Hanigan
Votto
Phillips
Rolen
Cozart/Janish
??????
Stubbs
Bruce

Leake
Bailey
Cueto
Chapman
??????

Cordero


the rest should be filled in with minor leaguers or cheap vets.

That $10M figure looks about right. I think it's very doable, but it really depends on whose available.

TheNext44
05-03-2010, 06:53 PM
2 million to each of Harang and Arroyo plus a 5 million raise owed to BP. 9 million gone without improving the team a whit.

Unless you count the additional $20M the Reds will get in payflex from losing Harang and Arroyo.

nate
05-03-2010, 07:03 PM
FA for the 2011 season can be found here (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/09/2011-mlb-free-agents.html).

Anyone there that might be worth pursuing?

I see both Corey Patterson and Willy Taveras are available.

:cool:

edabbs44
05-03-2010, 07:55 PM
2 million to each of Harang and Arroyo plus a 5 million raise owed to BP. 9 million gone without improving the team a whit.

Can't wait for these contract gaffes to be gone.

HokieRed
05-03-2010, 08:10 PM
Unless you count the additional $20M the Reds will get in payflex from losing Harang and Arroyo.


By the time you give out the raises, that payflex is going to look a lot smaller than it does at first.

Falls City Beer
05-03-2010, 08:13 PM
By the time you give out the raises, that payflex is going to look a lot smaller than it does at first.

To say the least. Payroll ain't going up anytime soon.

HokieRed
05-03-2010, 08:16 PM
To say the least. Payroll ain't going up anytime soon.

No real payroll sanity until the next year when BP and CoCo come off.

TheNext44
05-03-2010, 08:52 PM
To say the least. Payroll ain't going up anytime soon.

But even with the raises, the Reds should have at least $10M to spend if the payroll stays the same. That's a lot in this market.

fearofpopvol1
05-03-2010, 09:48 PM
Leake
Bailey
Cueto
Chapman
??????


Volquez? I still think the Reds need to have a veteran pitcher in the staff. This projection looks optimistic and accounts for everything going right.

Homer Bailey
05-03-2010, 11:13 PM
I think the only two big holes for next season, barring injuries/trades are LF and the 5th starter.

Here the team next season as I see it:

Hanigan
Votto
Phillips
Rolen
Cozart/Janish
??????
Stubbs
Bruce

Leake
Bailey
Cueto
Chapman
??????

Cordero


the rest should be filled in with minor leaguers or cheap vets.

That $10M figure looks about right. I think it's very doable, but it really depends on whose available.

Vasquez.

Benihana
05-04-2010, 12:11 AM
Vasquez.

Interesting.

While he is getting pulverized in the AL East this year, he may be a great candidate to buy low on this offseason with a short-term, incentive-laden deal.

Worst case scenario, he doesn't get much better than he is now, but still is good enough to hold down the #4 starter role while tutoring all of the young pitchers (especially Cueto, Volquez, and Chapman.)

Best case scenario, he returns to last season's form and is the Ace of the staff, with Leake, Chapman, Bailey/Cueto, and Volquez/Wood filling out the staff.

If Vasquez regains his 2009 form before this season ends and will therefore be too expensive in the offseason, pick up Arroyo's option and give him one more year on the staff to be the stabilizing veteran.

REDblooded
05-04-2010, 12:28 AM
From what's available... Gimme Carl Crawford starting in LF and leading off every night... From there, I'd take Pedro Feliciano as a LH reliever, and Jorge De La Rosa as a SP... That's about all...

Benihana
05-04-2010, 12:33 AM
From what's available... Gimme Carl Crawford starting in LF and leading off every night... From there, I'd take Pedro Feliciano as a LH reliever, and Jorge De La Rosa as a SP... That's about all...

Good luck outbidding the Yankees (and just about everyone else) on that one.

I'd rather do something more clever like give Andruw Jones a 1 or 2 year deal, especially if they don't believe Frazier, Francisco, or Alonso can hack it in LF.

REDblooded
05-04-2010, 12:38 AM
Good luck outbidding the Yankees (and just about everyone else) on that one.

I'd rather do something more clever like give Andruw Jones a 1 or 2 year deal, especially if they don't believe Frazier, Francisco, or Alonso can hack it in LF.

Signing Jones after this season would be like rewashing a ...

pedro
05-04-2010, 01:19 AM
From what's available... Gimme Carl Crawford starting in LF and leading off every night... From there, I'd take Pedro Feliciano as a LH reliever, and Jorge De La Rosa as a SP... That's about all...

Why would you want to pay 10 million a year for a lead off hitter with a .336 career OPB?

hebroncougar
05-04-2010, 09:01 AM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'd offer Arroyo a 3 year deal at around $20 million. His innings and around league average production would be pretty valuable the next 3 years while your young pitchers are breaking in. I'd let Harang walk.

HokieRed
05-04-2010, 09:03 AM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'd offer Arroyo a 3 year deal at around $20 million. His innings and around league average production would be pretty valuable the next 3 years while your young pitchers are breaking in. I'd let Harang walk.

I predict this will be the dilemma: whether to keep Arroyo or try to go one echelon up for a better starter at a higher figure. I hope they do the latter.

edabbs44
05-04-2010, 09:07 AM
Vasquez.

Not a bad idea if available to them. Then spin off one of the younger pitchers for some offense.

Benihana
05-04-2010, 09:15 AM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'd offer Arroyo a 3 year deal at around $20 million. His innings and around league average production would be pretty valuable the next 3 years while your young pitchers are breaking in. I'd let Harang walk.

Why would you give him the extra years when you can just pick up his option for next year? Agree on letting Harang walk, but assuming Webb and/or Vasquez are too expensive, I'd just pick up Arroyo's option for next year and reevaluate for 2012. By that time, Volquez and Bailey will be veterans with 5 years of service time. Do NOT commit anything more to Arroyo than that.

Like I said, Webb or Vasquez would be Plan A. Picking up Arroyo's option for next year is Plan B (they'll know whether Webb/Vasquez will be too expensive by their performance the rest of this season.) Extending Arroyo for 3 years should NOT be a Plan C.

Benihana
05-04-2010, 09:16 AM
Not a bad idea if available to them. Then spin off one of the younger pitchers for some offense.

I'm guessing that would be Bailey or Wood (it would be nice to have the Latinos mentored by Vasquez.) But you could only afford to spin off one of the younger pitchers if Vasquez pitched like 2009, not 2010.

hebroncougar
05-04-2010, 09:27 AM
Why would you give him the extra years when you can just pick up his option for next year? Agree on letting Harang walk, but assuming Webb and/or Vasquez are too expensive, I'd just pick up Arroyo's option for next year and reevaluate for 2012. By that time, Volquez and Bailey will be veterans with 5 years of service time. Do NOT commit anything more to Arroyo than that.

Like I said, Webb or Vasquez would be Plan A. Picking up Arroyo's option for next year is Plan B (they'll know whether Webb/Vasquez will be too expensive by their performance the rest of this season.) Extending Arroyo for 3 years should NOT be a Plan C.

Because you can get Arroyo for 3 years for 20, instead of 1 year at 12. His 210+ innings would be invaluable to the staff the next 3 years as Bailey, Leake, Chapman, Wood, etc. learn how to pitch while throwing 160-180 innings (hopefully). Arroyo gets more than his 12 million option, and for him, in this market, it probably would be a deal he'd seriously think about. If there is on thing we've learned about Arroyo, it's he's going to give you 210+ innnings every year, and an era around 4.10-4.30. I'd pay $6.5 million a season for that for the next three years

dunner13
05-04-2010, 09:58 AM
I think there is a very realilistic chance that the Dbacks are completely out of contention by July, Webb will just be coming back from injury and unsigned for next year. I think they will hope he can make a few good starts before the deadline and look to deal him. To bring a veteran pitcher back to his hometown area sounds just like the kind of move Jocketty would make. And a dominating groundball pitcher in GABP would be a very good thing.

Chip R
05-04-2010, 10:15 AM
Because you can get Arroyo for 3 years for 20, instead of 1 year at 12. His 210+ innings would be invaluable to the staff the next 3 years as Bailey, Leake, Chapman, Wood, etc. learn how to pitch while throwing 160-180 innings (hopefully). Arroyo gets more than his 12 million option, and for him, in this market, it probably would be a deal he'd seriously think about. If there is on thing we've learned about Arroyo, it's he's going to give you 210+ innnings every year, and an era around 4.10-4.30. I'd pay $6.5 million a season for that for the next three years


I think that's a very good point. The stars are always going to get paid but guys like Arroyo may find it difficult to get more than a 1 year deal some other place. He has said he likes it here and wants to stay here. 3/$20M may be a bit steep though. Maybe 3/$15M and some clauses like $1M if he makes the ASG, $1M if the Reds make the playoffs and another $1M if they make the World Series. Perhaps $500K if he finishes in the top 10 in the Cy Young voting.

membengal
05-04-2010, 10:18 AM
I think there is a very realilistic chance that the Dbacks are completely out of contention by July, Webb will just be coming back from injury and unsigned for next year. I think they will hope he can make a few good starts before the deadline and look to deal him. To bring a veteran pitcher back to his hometown area sounds just like the kind of move Jocketty would make. And a dominating groundball pitcher in GABP would be a very good thing.

Dunner, given Webb's shoulder issues and the problems he is having coming back, I think it would hard to pencil him into the rotation for 2011 and be certain he is an upgrade. I don't know that anyone knows what Webb will be like if/when he finally comes back. Shoulder injuries are cruel to pitchers.

bucksfan2
05-04-2010, 10:24 AM
If I am the Reds I am bringing Arroyo back for at least next season. I would try and do a Rolen type deal and extend him out over the next 3 years or so but if I can't get anything done I pick up that option.

Arroyo is what he is, but on a team that is going to count on young pitching getting an innings eater who can post a slightly better than average ERA is a valuable commodity. The key issue that Jocketty will be deciding upon is whether or not he can replace Arroyo's value for $9M.

HokieRed
05-04-2010, 10:36 AM
Arroyo may make sense for next season--personally I wouldn't extend him at all--but don't we want to be better than Arroyo all the way through the rotation by 2012. Who in the following list has less upside than Arroyo: Chapman, Leake, Bailey, Cueto, Volquez, possibly Wood? In other words, by 2012, why pay the difference between Arroyo and one of those guys for whatever marginal difference there would be?

GADawg
05-04-2010, 10:38 AM
Interesting.

While he is getting pulverized in the AL East this year, he may be a great candidate to buy low on this offseason with a short-term, incentive-laden deal.

Worst case scenario, he doesn't get much better than he is now, but still is good enough to hold down the #4 starter role while tutoring all of the young pitchers (especially Cueto, Volquez, and Chapman.)

Best case scenario, he returns to last season's form and is the Ace of the staff, with Leake, Chapman, Bailey/Cueto, and Volquez/Wood filling out the staff.

If Vasquez regains his 2009 form before this season ends and will therefore be too expensive in the offseason, pick up Arroyo's option and give him one more year on the staff to be the stabilizing veteran.


i heard a yankee fan on xm yesterday lobbying for a swap of Arroyo and Vasquez....I'd be on board for that. Vasquez seems to be at home in the NL for whatever reason

Chip R
05-04-2010, 10:38 AM
Arroyo may make sense for next season--personally I wouldn't extend him at all--but don't we want to be better than Arroyo all the way through the rotation by 2012. Who in the following list has less upside than Arroyo: Chapman, Leake, Bailey, Cueto, Volquez, possibly Wood? In other words, by 2012, why pay the difference between Arroyo and one of those guys for whatever marginal difference there would be?


Of course we want to do better but will we? You can never have enough pitching.

Benihana
05-04-2010, 10:40 AM
Arroyo may make sense for next season--personally I wouldn't extend him at all--but don't we want to be better than Arroyo all the way through the rotation by 2012. Who in the following list has less upside than Arroyo: Chapman, Leake, Bailey, Cueto, Volquez, possibly Wood? In other words, by 2012, why pay the difference between Arroyo and one of those guys for whatever marginal difference there would be?

Exactly. I would hope that the least effective guy out of that mix is a league average starter by 2012. Otherwise, failing to trade them now is an organizational failure.

Johnny Cueto especially strikes me as someone who should be able to match Arroyo's production by 2012, if not much sooner. Leake and Chapman should be significantly better. Bailey and Volquez are wild cards.

Benihana
05-04-2010, 10:43 AM
Of course we want to do better but will we? You can never have enough pitching.

You can if you have to start overpaying for it. Imagine how much we'll be bemoaning Arroyo's $6MM+ price tag in 2013 when we can't afford to re-sign (fill in the blank- Votto/Bruce/Cueto/Bailey/Volquez)

Scrap Irony
05-04-2010, 10:47 AM
I'd go after a leadoff hitter that plays either LF or SS. Preferrably SS. Jose Reyes would look mighty fine at shortstop for the next three years or so. That's where you'd get the most bang for your buck, IMO. Put Reyes at leadoff and either bring up a minor league LF (would Alonso be ready by then? Francisco? Frazier? Heisey?) or sign a cheap LF alternative like Hinske or Nady to pair with a young'un. (I'd lean toward Nady and Alonso as the LF duo, with Dickerson and Stubbs in CF and Bruce in RF.)

That lineup:
Reyes SS
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Rolen 3B
Bruce RF
Nady/ Alonso/ Francisco/ Frazier/ Heisey LF
Stubbs/ Dickerson CF
Hanigan/ Castillo/Miller/Denove C

That's a solid lineup, with better OBP and D than the current team.

The rotation would be questionable, as I'd go all youth:
Volquez
Bailey
Cueto
Chapman
Leake

It's talented and you'd have Wood and Maloney in AAA to provide depth. There's not a bone fide ace in the bunch, though all five have the chance to blossom into one.

The bench would be solid, assuming Valaika comes up and Frazier begins to hit. Jocketty wouldn't have to spend that extra half a million or so he always does, anyway:
Frazier/ Francisco CIF/OF/PH
Valaika MI
Janish MI
Nady COF
Dickerson CF
Denove/Castillo/Miller C

I'd also give up Rhodes for the draft pick (though he's been outstanding this season) and Lincoln for the cash, hoping my prospects could provide league average help. This would be the weak spot of the team:
Cordero Closer
Massett Set-up
Owings Long reliever
Herrera LOOGY
Ondrusek/ Del Rosario Middle relief
Fisher/ Bray Middle relief

Chip R
05-04-2010, 10:49 AM
You can if you have to start overpaying for it. Imagine how much we'll be bemoaning Arroyo's $6MM+ price tag in 2013 when we can't afford to re-sign (fill in the blank- Votto/Bruce/Cueto/Bailey/Volquez)


If $6M paid to a starting pitcher who performs like Arroyo is going to keep the Reds from re-signing any or all of the above then they should just go out of business altogether. And if any of those guys are going to be paid big money they have to start showing that they deserve it. Right now, I'm not going to break the bank to keep any of those guys.

Benihana
05-04-2010, 10:49 AM
i heard a yankee fan on xm yesterday lobbying for a swap of Arroyo and Vasquez....I'd be on board for that. Vasquez seems to be at home in the NL for whatever reason

I wouldn't mind it if the Yanks would pick up a hefty chunk of Vasquez's salary on the way out. Then use that money to sign (or trade for) a real LF.

Arroyo in a Yankees uniform would make a lot of people's heads explode. Vasquez is a stud in the National League, and would be a great mentor to the young Latinos.

Better yet- how about Arroyo and Harang for Vasquez and a prospect? Use it as an opportunity to clear a lot of money off of the books. Bring up Maloney as soon as he is back from the DL:

Vasquez
Leake
Cueto
Bailey
Maloney

until Volquez comes back and Wood/Chapman are ready.

Take the savings and sign Jermaine Dye or (get really crazy) and trade for Carlos Lee. Drew Stubbs, welcome home!

Benihana
05-04-2010, 10:51 AM
And if any of those guys are going to be paid big money they have to start showing that they deserve it. Right now, I'm not going to break the bank to keep any of those guys.

Joey Votto? Really?

Benihana
05-04-2010, 10:52 AM
I'd go after a leadoff hitter that plays either LF or SS. Preferrably SS. Jose Reyes would look mighty fine at shortstop for the next three years or so. That's where you'd get the most bang for your buck, IMO. Put Reyes at leadoff and either bring up a minor league LF (would Alonso be ready by then? Francisco? Frazier? Heisey?) or sign a cheap LF alternative like Hinske or Nady to pair with a young'un. (I'd lean toward Nady and Alonso as the LF duo, with Dickerson and Stubbs in CF and Bruce in RF.)

That lineup:
Reyes SS
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Rolen 3B
Bruce RF
Nady/ Alonso/ Francisco/ Frazier/ Heisey LF
Stubbs/ Dickerson CF
Hanigan/ Castillo/Miller/Denove C

That's a solid lineup, with better OBP and D than the current team.

The rotation would be questionable, as I'd go all youth:
Volquez
Bailey
Cueto
Chapman
Leake

It's talented and you'd have Wood and Maloney in AAA to provide depth. There's not a bone fide ace in the bunch, though all five have the chance to blossom into one.

The bench would be solid, assuming Valaika comes up and Frazier begins to hit. Jocketty wouldn't have to spend that extra half a million or so he always does, anyway:
Frazier/ Francisco CIF/OF/PH
Valaika MI
Janish MI
Nady COF
Dickerson CF
Denove/Castillo/Miller C

I'd also give up Rhodes for the draft pick (though he's been outstanding this season) and Lincoln for the cash, hoping my prospects could provide league average help. This would be the weak spot of the team:
Cordero Closer
Massett Set-up
Owings Long reliever
Herrera LOOGY
Ondrusek/ Del Rosario Middle relief
Fisher/ Bray Middle relief

I offered Arroyo, Cabrera, and Alonso to Omar for Reyes. He said no thanks. ;)

Chip R
05-04-2010, 10:56 AM
Joey Votto? Really?


Really.

Benihana
05-04-2010, 10:59 AM
Really.

Guess I don't have much to say in response to that. Usually when you get a 26 year old 1B with great character, good defense, and a career .925 OPS, you want to hang on tight. At least I do anyway.

nate
05-04-2010, 11:04 AM
Guess I don't have much to say in response to that. Usually when you get a 26 year old 1B with great character, good defense, and a career .925 OPS, you want to hang on tight. At least I do anyway.

I agree with Chip. I'm not going to break the bank, even for Votto and I say this as a fan of his Facebook page. :cool:

Now, replace 1B with C, SS, CF or add .100 to that OPS and I might have to crack the bank open.

Chip R
05-04-2010, 11:07 AM
Guess I don't have much to say in response to that. Usually when you get a 26 year old 1B with great character, good defense, and a career .925 OPS, you want to hang on tight. At least I do anyway.

So you're comfortable giving him close to a Ryan Howard deal right now? Because that's going to be the going rate for superstar 1st basemen. Think fast because Pujols, Gonzalez and Fielder are all going to have their contracts up in the next year and they may make Howard's deal look like chump change.

If I'm going to give Votto that kind of money with the revenues (or lack thereof) the Reds bring in, I want to be extremely sure he's going to play like those guys. I also want to be extremely sure he's not going to miss any more time because of his depression issues.

Benihana
05-04-2010, 11:11 AM
So you're comfortable giving him close to a Ryan Howard deal right now? Because that's going to be the going rate for superstar 1st basemen. Think fast because Pujols, Gonzalez and Fielder are all going to have their contracts up in the next year and they may make Howard's deal look like chump change.

If I'm going to give Votto that kind of money with the revenues (or lack thereof) the Reds bring in, I want to be extremely sure he's going to play like those guys. I also want to be extremely sure he's not going to miss any more time because of his depression issues.

That's one of the reasons why I'd prefer to lock him up to a Longoria-type deal now and not wait until he's on the verge of Free Agency like Howard, Fielder or Pujols.

If I could lock Votto up for a Longoria-type deal, I'd pull the trigger right now. And I'd be sure to include clauses/insurance in case the depression issue re-emerges. What are you waiting for? To see if Yonder Alonso and his .761 OPS in AA (.823 career) is somehow better?

And I don't buy the revenue argument- if the Rays and Marlins can do it with Longoria and HanRam respectively, so can the Reds. Otherwise, like you said, they should fold up shop now.

HokieRed
05-04-2010, 11:25 AM
If we're going to spend that kind of dough, can we just go ahead and sign Gonzalez?

hebroncougar
05-04-2010, 11:26 AM
If $6M paid to a starting pitcher who performs like Arroyo is going to keep the Reds from re-signing any or all of the above then they should just go out of business altogether. And if any of those guys are going to be paid big money they have to start showing that they deserve it. Right now, I'm not going to break the bank to keep any of those guys.


Exactly. That $6 Million isn't going to keep them from resigning anyone. In 2013, $6 million for a league average pitcher that throws 210+ innings will be a bargain.

hebroncougar
05-04-2010, 11:31 AM
Exactly. I would hope that the least effective guy out of that mix is a league average starter by 2012. Otherwise, failing to trade them now is an organizational failure.

Johnny Cueto especially strikes me as someone who should be able to match Arroyo's production by 2012, if not much sooner. Leake and Chapman should be significantly better. Bailey and Volquez are wild cards.


Johnny Cueto strikes me who would be better suited as a RHP setup pitcher. IMO he's never going to even approach 210+ innings on a consistent basis. I'd be shocked if the Reds has 5 above average starters in any year.

edabbs44
05-04-2010, 11:31 AM
Because you can get Arroyo for 3 years for 20, instead of 1 year at 12.

Do you think he'd sign for that?

hebroncougar
05-04-2010, 11:34 AM
Do you think he'd sign for that?

I would think he'd consider it seriously. Look at the market. He's gotta be thinking about Jarrod Washburn.

Chip R
05-04-2010, 11:38 AM
That's one of the reasons why I'd prefer to lock him up to a Longoria-type deal now and not wait until he's on the verge of Free Agency like Howard, Fielder or Pujols.

If I could lock Votto up for a Longoria-type deal, I'd pull the trigger right now. And I'd be sure to include clauses/insurance in case the depression issue re-emerges. What are you waiting for? To see if Yonder Alonso and his .761 OPS in AA (.823 career) is somehow better?

And I don't buy the revenue argument- if the Rays and Marlins can do it with Longoria and HanRam respectively, so can the Reds. Otherwise, like you said, they should fold up shop now.


A Longoria deal isn't going to break the bank. And it sure isn't going to keep you from re-signing Arroyo for 3 years and anywhere from $12M-$20M. But I would wait until after the season to see if Votto can put in a full season and put up numbers like he did last season. But if he starts to put up elite numbers, he's going to want to be paid like an elite player. Now there's good news and bad news attached to that. The bad news is that once Pujols, Fielder and Gonzalez get their new deals, Votto's price is going to skyrocket. The good news is that not very many teams are going to spend that kind of money on a player after those guys have signed. So the market for Votto's services is going to be limited.

buckeyenut
05-04-2010, 12:47 PM
i heard a yankee fan on xm yesterday lobbying for a swap of Arroyo and Vasquez....I'd be on board for that. Vasquez seems to be at home in the NL for whatever reason
Given Vasquez's performance, I'd be asking for a bunch more from the Yankees (either $$ or players or both) in that deal, but would be more than willing to do that.

buckeyenut
05-04-2010, 12:51 PM
I'd go after a leadoff hitter that plays either LF or SS. Preferrably SS. Jose Reyes would look mighty fine at shortstop for the next three years or so. That's where you'd get the most bang for your buck, IMO. Put Reyes at leadoff and either bring up a minor league LF (would Alonso be ready by then? Francisco? Frazier? Heisey?) or sign a cheap LF alternative like Hinske or Nady to pair with a young'un. (I'd lean toward Nady and Alonso as the LF duo, with Dickerson and Stubbs in CF and Bruce in RF.)

That lineup:
Reyes SS
Phillips 2B
Votto 1B
Rolen 3B
Bruce RF
Nady/ Alonso/ Francisco/ Frazier/ Heisey LF
Stubbs/ Dickerson CF
Hanigan/ Castillo/Miller/Denove C

That's a solid lineup, with better OBP and D than the current team.

The rotation would be questionable, as I'd go all youth:
Volquez
Bailey
Cueto
Chapman
Leake

It's talented and you'd have Wood and Maloney in AAA to provide depth. There's not a bone fide ace in the bunch, though all five have the chance to blossom into one.

The bench would be solid, assuming Valaika comes up and Frazier begins to hit. Jocketty wouldn't have to spend that extra half a million or so he always does, anyway:
Frazier/ Francisco CIF/OF/PH
Valaika MI
Janish MI
Nady COF
Dickerson CF
Denove/Castillo/Miller C

I'd also give up Rhodes for the draft pick (though he's been outstanding this season) and Lincoln for the cash, hoping my prospects could provide league average help. This would be the weak spot of the team:
Cordero Closer
Massett Set-up
Owings Long reliever
Herrera LOOGY
Ondrusek/ Del Rosario Middle relief
Fisher/ Bray Middle relief

I would LOVE to bring Reyes in. He is a PERFECT fit for this team. I probably would bat the Stubbs/Dickerson platoon 2nd (assuming Stubbs rebounds to be about a .350 OBP) and Phillips 6, which is I think the perfect spot for him. I also would have no problem dealing Phillips, batting Frazier 6th and bringing in a bigger bat for LF. I think we need a bellcow bat to run cleanup to really make this lineup hum.

Benihana
05-04-2010, 02:02 PM
I would LOVE to bring Reyes in. He is a PERFECT fit for this team. I probably would bat the Stubbs/Dickerson platoon 2nd (assuming Stubbs rebounds to be about a .350 OBP) and Phillips 6, which is I think the perfect spot for him. I also would have no problem dealing Phillips, batting Frazier 6th and bringing in a bigger bat for LF. I think we need a bellcow bat to run cleanup to really make this lineup hum.

Definitely agree, but I'm not sure how we could pry him away from the Mets- and convince him to stay here after the season.

The main problem is that they would have no need for Alonso because of Ike Davis, and they are in win-now mode. While I am sure they would be interested in Arroyo, I think it would take a lot more to pry away their catalyst, and I'm not sure if the Reds are in a position to pay that price- to say nothing of the price it would cost to sign him long-term after the season.

Maybe a package like Arroyo and Phillips for Reyes and a prospect would work but I am not sure that makes the Reds better. And I'm also not sure if the Mets have any prospects left that would make that proposal interesting to us.

Benihana
05-12-2010, 01:24 PM
Again, I'd be looking into giving that Longoria/HanRam deal to Votto right about now.