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GOYA
05-09-2010, 02:27 PM
Rochester @ Louisville - 2:05

Burke CF .200
Cozart SS .259
Dorn 1B .316
Balentien RF .193
Francisco 3B .256
Valaika DH .354
Frazier LF .205
Castillo C .234
Sutton 2B .200

Chapman P 3.12

Superdude
05-09-2010, 03:08 PM
is anyone getting the Bats games on MiLB.TV lately? My computer freezes up for a few seconds and then I just get a screen thats half white half black.

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 03:12 PM
Chapman has retired the first two hitters, one via a strikeout.

Superdude
05-09-2010, 03:23 PM
2K's one hit and seventeen pitches for Chapman in the first

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 03:29 PM
Chapman has retired the first two batters in the 2nd inning.

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 03:31 PM
Chapman: 2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 K

GOYA
05-09-2010, 03:38 PM
Frazier HR

Bats up 1-0 in the 2nd

GOYA
05-09-2010, 03:39 PM
MiLB.tv is working now

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 03:46 PM
Strikeout #3 for Chapman to begin the 3rd inning.

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 03:49 PM
Strikeout #4.

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 03:51 PM
Chapman: 3 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 4 K

GOYA
05-09-2010, 03:59 PM
Cozart scored on a WP

2-0 Bats

GOYA
05-09-2010, 04:06 PM
Chapman took a hard hit ball off his driving leg. He's limping a little but he seems alright.

GOYA
05-09-2010, 04:08 PM
Solo HR for the RedWings

2-1 Bats

GOYA
05-09-2010, 04:15 PM
Chapman has lost it a little since being hit.

HR
single
E1 on a bad pickoff throw
walk
single

bases loaded with 1 out

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 04:15 PM
Chapman has yet to get a batter out since getting hit on the leg.

GIDP
05-09-2010, 04:17 PM
Probably broken leg, but chapman isnt used to being allowed to admit it.

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 04:19 PM
Chapman escapes the jam.

4 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 2 BB, 5 K

GOYA
05-09-2010, 04:19 PM
AC pulls it together and leaves them loaded.

broken bat shallow fly to LF
K

Still 2-1 Bats

GOYA
05-09-2010, 04:21 PM
Cisco single to open the Bats' 4th

GOYA
05-09-2010, 04:33 PM
Word from the Bats' trainer is that the ball that hit Chapman got him on the left butt cheek.

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 04:40 PM
Chapman: 5 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 3 BB, 5 K

GOYA
05-09-2010, 04:41 PM
Chapman is likely finished for the day


Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Chapman 5.0 4 1 1 3 5 1 2.90


Pitches-strikes: Chapman 95-57.
Groundouts-flyouts: Chapman 3-7.

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 04:52 PM
Chapman retired the first two batters in the 6th inning before issuing his 4th walk of the day.

GOYA
05-09-2010, 04:54 PM
Chapman came back for the 6th

1 K and 2 BB


Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Chapman 5.2 4 1 1 5 6 1 2.84

Pitches-strikes: Chapman 111-65.

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 04:54 PM
Two outs and nobody on base and Chapman walks the #7 and #8 hitters. He still has to work on that control. I'm fine with leaving him in Louisville for at least a few more months.

GIDP
05-09-2010, 04:57 PM
Two outs and nobody on base and Chapman walks the #7 and #8 hitters. He still has to work on that control. I'm fine with leaving him in Louisville for at least a few more months.

Exactly.

mth123
05-09-2010, 05:02 PM
Two outs and nobody on base and Chapman walks the #7 and #8 hitters. He still has to work on that control. I'm fine with leaving him in Louisville for at least a few more months.

I've been saying all along, 125 IP in the AAA rotation and then a call-up to the Reds pen at the deadline to get his last 20 to 25 innings in. He might be a replacement for Rhodes for the rest of the year if Rhodes is dealt. I think it would be the perfect way to manage and build his innings w/o risking his arm and to introduce him to big league life. Major league rotation (unless he busts in a big way) next year.

GOYA
05-09-2010, 05:03 PM
Cisco gets a walk again

GOYA
05-09-2010, 05:05 PM
Valaika double

2nd and 3rd with 1 out for Frazier

IBB coming

Castillo will have the bases loaded

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 05:05 PM
Chapman's final line: 5.2 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 5 BB, 6 K

GOYA
05-09-2010, 05:08 PM
Castillo hits it hard but it's a FC and RBI. Score Cisco

3-1 Bats

GOYA
05-09-2010, 05:11 PM
Bats tried the squeeze. It didn't work, but it was close

GOYA
05-09-2010, 05:26 PM
Balentien 2-RBI single

5-1 Bats

GOYA
05-09-2010, 05:30 PM
Cisco Ks for the first time in a while

GOYA
05-09-2010, 06:01 PM
Bats win 5-2 - 3 wins in a row


Player AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG
Burke CF 5 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 2 .211
Cozart SS 2 2 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 .263
Dorn 1B 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 .304
Balentien RF 4 0 1 0 0 0 2 0 2 .197
Francisco 3B 3 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 .258
Valaika DH 4 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 .350
Frazier LF 2 1 1 0 0 1 1 2 0 .212
Castillo C 4 0 2 0 0 0 1 0 0 .247
Sutton 2B 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 .193

Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Chapman (W, 3-1) 5.2 4 1 1 5 6 1 2.84
Ondrusek (H, 1) 2.1 0 0 0 0 2 0 0.87
Delgado, J 1.0 1 1 1 0 2 0 3.55

GOYA
05-09-2010, 06:16 PM
Carolina wins 7-2


Player AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG
Danielson LF 4 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 .208
Kahaulelio 2B 3 1 3 0 0 1 1 1 0 .274
Alonso 1B 4 1 2 0 0 0 0 1 1 .269
Phipps RF 5 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 .271
Eymann 3B 5 2 4 1 0 0 4 0 0 .295
Sappelt CF 5 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 .345
Castro, Jo SS 4 0 3 1 0 0 1 1 0 .188
Denove C 3 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 .333
Webb P 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 .000
Gil P 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000

Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Webb 6.1 3 2 2 3 8 1 4.63
Gil 1.2 1 0 0 1 2 0 3.86
Valiquette 1.0 2 0 0 2 0 0 3.86

GOYA
05-09-2010, 06:18 PM
Lynchburg lost 2-1 but only gave up 3 hits


Player AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG
Fellhauer CF 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 .265
Puckett 2B 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 .291
Soto 3B 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 .278
Mendez, C 1B 3 0 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 .317
Rojas PR 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .207
Mesoraco DH 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 2 .307
Buchholz SS 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 .257
Day RF 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 .253
McMurray C 3 1 1 1 0 0 0 1 1 .250
Wiley LF 4 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 .192

Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Serrano 7.0 2 1 1 1 9 0 3.58
Freeman, J (L, 0-1) 2.0 1 1 1 2 1 0 7.11

GOYA
05-09-2010, 06:21 PM
Dayton lost 5-3


Player AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO AVG
Rodriguez 2B 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 .263
Gregorius SS 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 .261
Coddington DH 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .274
Richburg 1B 3 2 1 1 0 0 0 1 0 .269
Garton RF 4 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 3 .280
Contreras, E CF 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 .190
Carlson, S 3B 4 0 3 2 0 0 2 0 1 .306
Wideman C 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 .194
Fleury, M PH 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .197
Feiner LF 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .159

Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Walker (L, 1-3) 6.0 8 5 5 2 6 1 6.39
Infante, E 2.0 3 0 0 1 0 0 3.31

Benihana
05-09-2010, 06:41 PM
Is the Alonso to LF experiment over?

muddie
05-09-2010, 08:52 PM
Is the Alonso to LF experiment over?

It appears that way.

dougdirt
05-09-2010, 09:11 PM
Is the Alonso to LF experiment over?

I wonder if the wall encounter put an end to it all. Too much concern for an injury.

mth123
05-09-2010, 09:13 PM
If ALonso to LF is dead, then its time to start lining up offers

GIDP
05-09-2010, 09:18 PM
If ALonso to LF is dead, then its time to start lining up offers

Too bad the targets I would want to go after already have younger guys there.

HokieRed
05-09-2010, 09:39 PM
If ALonso to LF is dead, then its time to start lining up offers


The experiment will be revived, I predict, when Alonso starts to get his OPS up around .900. I'm still 100% convinced that Alonso will make it clear that having him, Joey Votto, and Jay Bruce in the lineup together is the key to winning the division, perhaps even this year. In any case, and I hate to say it, Votto is pressing his case to be put in that elite group of first basemen whose contract demands will be, I'm afraid, beyond what the Reds can pay.

OnBaseMachine
05-09-2010, 09:40 PM
Great start by Mark Serrano.

GIDP
05-09-2010, 10:33 PM
The experiment will be revived, I predict, when Alonso starts to get his OPS up around .900. I'm still 100% convinced that Alonso will make it clear that having him, Joey Votto, and Jay Bruce in the lineup together is the key to winning the division, perhaps even this year. In any case, and I hate to say it, Votto is pressing his case to be put in that elite group of first basemen whose contract demands will be, I'm afraid, beyond what the Reds can pay.

Reds will probably have to pick if Bruce or Votto is the guy they keep. Which is kinda bad but at least we have a few years before thats a real topic.

Kingspoint
05-09-2010, 10:39 PM
111 pitches by Chapman.

Didn't think I'd see that by May 9th.

Don't know if that's a good sign or a bad sign.

Really don't know what to read into that....unless they know that he's got 6 days coming up instead of 5.

reds44
05-09-2010, 10:54 PM
Alonso will be the Reds major bargining chip at the deadline.

GIDP
05-09-2010, 11:06 PM
Only if they find some extra cash. Unless they sell another prospect like they did with Stewart.

Captain Hook
05-10-2010, 12:08 AM
Reds will probably have to pick if Bruce or Votto is the guy they keep. Which is kinda bad but at least we have a few years before thats a real topic.

This will be the case only if the Reds continue to fail year after year.If they can string together a few good seasons and start putting butts in the seats then anything is possible.

HokieRed
05-10-2010, 12:17 AM
Reds will probably have to pick if Bruce or Votto is the guy they keep. Which is kinda bad but at least we have a few years before thats a real topic.


I think it's a real topic now because it affects the decision you make about Alonso.

HokieRed
05-10-2010, 12:18 AM
Alonso will be the Reds major bargining chip at the deadline.


Doubt this. I don't think Jocketty will trade a potential franchise player.

GIDP
05-10-2010, 12:45 AM
I think it's a real topic now because it affects the decision you make about Alonso.

I think Bruce is the obvious one if he continues to hit at a .900+ OPS level like he has since the 7th game of the year. I think there is still a strong chance that with a few winning seasons they keep both guys for at least the next 6 or 7 seasons.

GIDP
05-10-2010, 12:48 AM
Doubt this. I don't think Jocketty will trade a potential franchise player.

Getting someone like a Sizemore (im dreaming even if people say he sucks now but I like him so back off) would change my mind instantly.

nemesis
05-10-2010, 01:03 AM
Doubt this. I don't think Jocketty will trade a potential franchise player.

Exactly what has Alonso done on the field to convince you that he is a franchise player? He didn't hit all that great in the Hawaii League. He had moderate success in High A last year. Had similar ok results in AA but never hit LH's in either league. Didn't put up any franchise looking numbers at all in the AZFL. Currently is being outhit by Eric Eymann in AA and still not quite hitting LHP with a .681 OPS. Right now to me he is nothing more than Brandon Larson 2.0. All of Alonso's laurels are base on what he did at Miami with an aluminum bat. Sure the guy hits RHP. Almost all LH's do. He takes a walk? Great so did Dunn and we all know where that got him.

In some other thread a poster commented that even Average First Basemen rake better than most other position players in baseball. What has Alonso done as a PRO to show that? I say move Alonso at the deadline. He has 1 option year left then he HAS to stick with the team. Move him now while you still have the chance to get value for him.

Yes he might explode and tear the league up. Great. But if the deal is done properly he could be the piece that helps bring back the "pieces" this team needs to be one step closer to contending. It also ends any question in Votto's mind that he is and will be this Franchise's face and future at First Base for the next decade. I'd take that.

reds44
05-10-2010, 01:25 AM
Exactly what has Alonso done on the field to convince you that he is a franchise player? He didn't hit all that great in the Hawaii League. He had moderate success in High A last year. Had similar ok results in AA but never hit LH's in either league. Didn't put up any franchise looking numbers at all in the AZFL. Currently is being outhit by Eric Eymann in AA and still not quite hitting LHP with a .681 OPS. Right now to me he is nothing more than Brandon Larson 2.0. All of Alonso's laurels are base on what he did at Miami with an aluminum bat. Sure the guy hits RHP. Almost all LH's do. He takes a walk? Great so did Dunn and we all know where that got him.

In some other thread a poster commented that even Average First Basemen rake better than most other position players in baseball. What has Alonso done as a PRO to show that? I say move Alonso at the deadline. He has 1 option year left then he HAS to stick with the team. Move him now while you still have the chance to get value for him.

Yes he might explode and tear the league up. Great. But if the deal is done properly he could be the piece that helps bring back the "pieces" this team needs to be one step closer to contending. It also ends any question in Votto's mind that he is and will be this Franchise's face and future at First Base for the next decade. I'd take that.
If Yonder ends up being Adam Dunn 2.0 I'd be thrilled.

lidspinner
05-10-2010, 02:23 AM
hate to jump all over a guy so early in his career but count me as another who has seen him multiple times now and I dont see anything that warrants me thinking he is better than Nix......that was sort of a joke. The guy just does not impress me at the plate and he still has not figure out the wooden bat yet.....laugh all you want but some players bats just make that sound and you know they hit it well....even if its an out....RARELY do you hear that from Alonso....at least from what I have seen...and i have also talked to a scout that said the same thing..he actually turned me onto to listening for it. Alonso's ceiling is very high....but right now, he is at least another year from breaking this lineup, if not 2. And the only people that will admit that are scouts and people who are not Reds fans....for some reason most Reds fans think this guy is putting up big numbers and impressing people every night....in fact its the exact opposite right now...

with that said, he did come here with such high expectations, so I am in no way saying he is not ever gonna make it here. I am just saying if his name was anything other than a 1st round selections name, we would not even mention his name.

nemesis
05-10-2010, 02:28 AM
If Yonder ends up being Adam Dunn 2.0 I'd be thrilled.

So would I. But he will probably be closer to Casey than Dunn based on early returns.

nemesis
05-10-2010, 02:30 AM
hate to jump all over a guy so early in his career but count me as another who has seen him multiple times now and I dont see anything that warrants me thinking he is better than Nix......that was sort of a joke. The guy just does not impress me at the plate and he still has not figure out the wooden bat yet.....laugh all you want but some players bats just make that sound and you know they hit it well....even if its an out....RARELY do you hear that from Alonso....at least from what I have seen...and i have also talked to a scout that said the same thing..he actually turned me onto to listening for it. Alonso's ceiling is very high....but right now, he is at least another year from breaking this lineup, if not 2. And the only people that will admit that are scouts and people who are not Reds fans....for some reason most Reds fans think this guy is putting up big numbers and impressing people every night....in fact its the exact opposite right now...

with that said, he did come here with such high expectations, so I am in no way saying he is not ever gonna make it here. I am just saying if his name was anything other than a 1st round selections name, we would not even mention his name.

Spoken for truth. If he put up the numbers Dorn did in AA he'd be the second coming of Gary Redus. ;)

Mario-Rijo
05-10-2010, 07:43 AM
As always fans jumping off the bandwagon too early. Look he wasn't my 1st selection at that point I liked both Beckham and Smoak better and I am not saying that in hindsight, I just did. That said when dealing with prospects you really have to take everything into consideration. Did I think he'd be struggling like he is in AA at this point, no not all. But I also didn't know he'd break his hamate bone when he did either. I suppose you might "hear" that special sound if he was still regaining his strength. And as Doug has often pointed out despite his lack of success hitting LHP he is still getting on base at a near 33% clip which is pretty solid considering. So let's not write it in stone that he never will hit them, as a matter of fact I think he will. I really see no need to write him off just yet, though I still believe there were better selections to be made as always where the Reds are concerned. When thinking of Alonso just be wary of the tale of Devin Mesoraco, guys don't move forward at a speed that we deem reasonable they are on their own schedule.

If Alonso doesn't start to show some signs of a resurgence in pop later in the season I might begin to be concerned but even then I won't write him off. If he is still having major problems at this point next year then the flags start popping up for me but until then it's meaningless chatter in my mind.

nemesis
05-10-2010, 12:37 PM
See there in lies the problem. Alonso and his Agent insisted on the Major League Contract. That put Alonso on a definitive time table. Unlike Mez who had 5 years in the minors and gets 3 more on the roster. He has 8 years to get it right. Alonso needs to be in the Majors by June or July next year. He has to progress in some way and some fashion this year. Yes I know he broke his Hamate bone and that saps power yada yada... It doesn't change the fact that he has to stick on this roster Opening Day 2012. He gets on base at a 33% clip vs LH's? Great. Franchise players destroy pitching not just get by at a marginal rate. I bet I could find 100 other prospects who get on at a 33% rate who aren't 1st round picks who are on ML contracts. He needs to hit for Average and at least high end doubles power between now and July or you have to move him. Maybe Toronto would be interested in moving Wells eatting half his contract and Snider for Alonso, Stubbs, Valiquette and Bailey?

HokieRed
05-10-2010, 01:21 PM
Just a few interesting numbers. Alonso's OBP vs. LH now .348. vs. RH=.398; .387 overall despite struggling, learning a new position, injury this year, recovery from hamate injury last year. OBP .423 so far in May, OPS over .900. Last year, Alonso put up .880 in the FSL (where Votto, a year younger, put up .754 for the year).
Gordon Beckham update: .193/.305/.257/.562.

camisadelgolf
05-10-2010, 02:12 PM
See there in lies the problem. Alonso and his Agent insisted on the Major League Contract. That put Alonso on a definitive time table. Unlike Mez who had 5 years in the minors and gets 3 more on the roster. He has 8 years to get it right. Alonso needs to be in the Majors by June or July next year. He has to progress in some way and some fashion this year. Yes I know he broke his Hamate bone and that saps power yada yada... It doesn't change the fact that he has to stick on this roster Opening Day 2012. He gets on base at a 33% clip vs LH's? Great. Franchise players destroy pitching not just get by at a marginal rate. I bet I could find 100 other prospects who get on at a 33% rate who aren't 1st round picks who are on ML contracts. He needs to hit for Average and at least high end doubles power between now and July or you have to move him. Maybe Toronto would be interested in moving Wells eatting half his contract and Snider for Alonso, Stubbs, Valiquette and Bailey?
Your post is pretty far off imo. The fact that Alonso signed a major league contract means that he needs to be ready to stay on the Reds' 25-man roster by 2013 since he's eligible for four options and didn't use his first one until last year. In other words, he has until the age of 26 to get it right.

On the other hand, Devin Mesoraco has until about the same age to get it right. By 2014, he will have run out of options and spent a total of seven years in the system. I'm not really sure what your point is. If your point is that Mesoraco needs less time to develop than Alonso, I think this entire forum will laugh at you.

HokieRed
05-10-2010, 02:37 PM
Hard to believe Yonder Alonso couldn't be on the roster right now if that were necessary. Our 23, 24, 25 th. men are probably Janish, Cairo, and Fisher. Is there really one of those we'd keep before Alonso if we needed to in order not to lose Alonso?

nemesis
05-10-2010, 02:59 PM
Your post is pretty far off imo. The fact that Alonso signed a major league contract means that he needs to be ready to stay on the Reds' 25-man roster by 2013 since he's eligible for four options and didn't use his first one until last year. In other words, he has until the age of 26 to get it right.

On the other hand, Devin Mesoraco has until about the same age to get it right. By 2014, he will have run out of options and spent a total of seven years in the system. I'm not really sure what your point is. If your point is that Mesoraco needs less time to develop than Alonso, I think this entire forum will laugh at you.

How did you get that from my post? Far from what I was saying. I thought he had used his third option this year. I guess that short stint in High A after he signed in 2008 didn't count as an option?

What I am saying is people keep calling him a franchise player and he has yet to do anything offensively to prove that.

The ML Contract forces the clubs hand at a quicker rate than if he hadn't demanded one. Like Mez who gets 8 years to try and get it right vs 4 for Alonso. Most players don't get put on the 40 Man until they are at AA or even AAA. Starting the have to clock then. Alonso doesn't have that luxury. Contracts like his handicaps a player if something happens to stunt his development say like a hamate injury. What happens if he doesn't develop into a stud prospect? He is untradible. A light hitting First Basemen with an average glove isn't a hot commodity in MLB.

Any team he is dealt to is working on the same timetable the Reds are. If the deal is right, I'd move him without hesitation. His numbers (BA, HR's, R's) so far don't scream franchise.

If he was on a minor league contract it wouldn't be such an issue he isn't hitting. He'd have until 2015 to sort out issues. What if he gets hurt again? I'd love to be wrong but unless he gets his OPS to a .950ish range and playing a decent LF in AA I don't see him sticking with this club.

GOYA
05-10-2010, 02:59 PM
Alonso on the roster right now would be a detriment. At least Janish and Cairo can play SS and 3B respectively. The one thing the Reds don't need now is another 1B.

camisadelgolf
05-10-2010, 03:20 PM
How did you get that from my post? Far from what I was saying. I thought he had used his third option this year. I guess that short stint in High A after he signed in 2008 didn't count as an option?

What I am saying is people keep calling him a franchise player and he has yet to do anything offensively to prove that.

The ML Contract forces the clubs hand at a quicker rate than if he hadn't demanded one. Like Mez who gets 8 years to try and get it right vs 4 for Alonso. Most players don't get put on the 40 Man until they are at AA or even AAA. Starting the have to clock then. Alonso doesn't have that luxury. Contracts like his handicaps a player if something happens to stunt his development say like a hamate injury. What happens if he doesn't develop into a stud prospect? He is untradible. A light hitting First Basemen with an average glove isn't a hot commodity in MLB.

Any team he is dealt to is working on the same timetable the Reds are. If the deal is right, I'd move him without hesitation. His numbers (BA, HR's, R's) so far don't scream franchise.

If he was on a minor league contract it wouldn't be such an issue he isn't hitting. He'd have until 2015 to sort out issues. What if he gets hurt again? I'd love to be wrong but unless he gets his OPS to a .950ish range and playing a decent LF in AA I don't see him sticking with this club.
To answer your question, he didn't use an option in 2008 because his optional assignment didn't last long enough (his season was nearly over by the time he signed). In total, the major league contract cost Alonso one year of development time, and it's highly doubtful that year will be needed anyway. He has 4+ years in the minors to figure things out, and he's already got an .807 OPS in AA. I think he'll be fine.

Devin Mesoraco doesn't get eight years in the minors--he gets 6+ years. Had he signed a few days earlier than he did, he would be eligible for one more year, but unfortunately, the waiting results in needing protection from the rule five draft one year earlier.

Regardless, Mesoraco was 19 when he signed, and Alonso was 21 when he signed. Overall, it balances out the same in that they have to be ready to stay with the Reds' 25-man roster at the same age. The big differences are that, when drafted, Mesoraco was more raw and fresh out of high school while Alonso was more polished and coming out of a major university.

HokieRed
05-10-2010, 04:12 PM
Alonso on the roster right now would be a detriment. At least Janish and Cairo can play SS and 3B respectively. The one thing the Reds don't need now is another 1B.

So if you knew you were going to lose Alonso, you'd keep Miguel Cairo rather than put him [Alonso] on the roster?

GOYA
05-10-2010, 04:30 PM
So if you knew you were going to lose Alonso, you'd keep Miguel Cairo rather than put him [Alonso] on the roster?

No, I wouldn't be so foolish as to be in the position of losing Alonso. But more importantly, it isn't necessary to have him on the roster now. It's a moot point.

HokieRed
05-10-2010, 04:31 PM
No, I wouldn't be so foolish as to be in the position of losing Alonso. But more importantly, it isn't necessary to have him on the roster now. It's a moot point.

Well it was only my point in the original post that to start worrying about whether Alonso can make the roster in 2012 doesn't make a lot of sense.

Mario-Rijo
05-10-2010, 04:59 PM
How did you get that from my post? Far from what I was saying. I thought he had used his third option this year. I guess that short stint in High A after he signed in 2008 didn't count as an option?

What I am saying is people keep calling him a franchise player and he has yet to do anything offensively to prove that.

The ML Contract forces the clubs hand at a quicker rate than if he hadn't demanded one. Like Mez who gets 8 years to try and get it right vs 4 for Alonso. Most players don't get put on the 40 Man until they are at AA or even AAA. Starting the have to clock then. Alonso doesn't have that luxury. Contracts like his handicaps a player if something happens to stunt his development say like a hamate injury. What happens if he doesn't develop into a stud prospect? He is untradible. A light hitting First Basemen with an average glove isn't a hot commodity in MLB.

Any team he is dealt to is working on the same timetable the Reds are. If the deal is right, I'd move him without hesitation. His numbers (BA, HR's, R's) so far don't scream franchise.

If he was on a minor league contract it wouldn't be such an issue he isn't hitting. He'd have until 2015 to sort out issues. What if he gets hurt again? I'd love to be wrong but unless he gets his OPS to a .950ish range and playing a decent LF in AA I don't see him sticking with this club.

Lots of ifs, yets & so fars. Which is my point, now is not the time to make the determination. Just follow his timeline and give him a break as we should any of them when it calls for it. Lots of times we are just too rigid when it comes to production, I think we'd give Superman a hard time for not playing up to his potential in the Kryptonite League. If there is rational for allowing a lack of supreme production give them the benefit of the doubt. He has time no reason to rush it.