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NorrisHopper30
05-18-2010, 06:26 PM
Judging from some of the responses I got in the Markakis thread it seems like many people are content with riding the Gomes' wave. I love Gomes and I love his attitude and energy, but how long will he play like this? Are we content with Stubbs? Will Cabrera continue to be solid? How long can we win with Harang? Bullpen? Bench?

Here are my priorities:

1) Stubbs needs to stay hot to keep his job and continue to show improvement at the bottom of the lineup. His OBP is still below 300. If he starts slowing down again I give Heisey a little try and then if that doesn't work I try to make a trade for Andruw Jones who has a .353 OBP and is OPSing .931.
2) Miguel Cairo needs to go, build up the bench with anything I don't care who it is just not Cairo. This is a cheap, easy fix..probably fixable through a AAA promotion.
3) Add a reliever via trade. I don't feel like looking up targets, but I think one more solid bullpen arm could improve this team (unless of course we keep pitching CG shutouts).

Things that may need to happen? (no particular order here):
1) Upgrade to Gomes? I love Gomes attitude and energy, but even after this hotstreak his OBP is still just a tad below MLB average (.330 is ML avg, he's .328). He's very streaky and will be back to normal sometime unless something has really gotten into him. When I mean upgrade I don't mean just barely upgrade, I'm talking a fairly large trade here for a famous player that may involve Alonso/Francisco being traded.
2) Upgrade Orlando? I say only do this if we could somehow land Hanley. Cabrera is still solid on D and ok on offense (although his OBP is pretty crappy). Trade the farm for Hanley if he's available.
3) Harang. What can we do with him? If he doesn't improve consistently I think it wouldn't be crazy to trade him (if possible) or move him to long relief and bring up Chapman, Maloney, Wood or anyone else who could do the same thing, but actually has potential. Another option here would be picking up an ace (lee, greinke, etc) to replace him and keep Chapman for the bullpen or incase someone gets hurt.


Thoughts? Any targets for bullpen improvements?

NorrisHopper30
05-18-2010, 06:33 PM
I see Lowell is frustrated in Boston, that'd be a nice replacement for Cairo IMO if we could get him somewhat cheap.

Vottomatic
05-18-2010, 06:35 PM
Judging from some of the responses I got in the Markakis thread it seems like many people are content with riding the Gomes' wave. I love Gomes and I love his attitude and energy, but how long will he play like this? Are we content with Stubbs? Will Cabrera continue to be solid? How long can we win with Harang? Bullpen? Bench?

Here are my priorities:

1) Stubbs needs to stay hot to keep his job and continue to show improvement at the bottom of the lineup. His OBP is still below 300. If he starts slowing down again I give Heisey a little try and then if that doesn't work I try to make a trade for Andruw Jones who has a .353 OBP and is OPSing .931.
2) Miguel Cairo needs to go, build up the bench with anything I don't care who it is just not Cairo. This is a cheap, easy fix..probably fixable through a AAA promotion.
3) Add a reliever via trade. I don't feel like looking up targets, but I think one more solid bullpen arm could improve this team (unless of course we keep pitching CG shutouts).

Things that may need to happen? (no particular order here):
1) Upgrade to Gomes? I love Gomes attitude and energy, but even after this hotstreak his OBP is still just a tad below MLB average (.330 is ML avg, he's .328). He's very streaky and will be back to normal sometime unless something has really gotten into him. When I mean upgrade I don't mean just barely upgrade, I'm talking a fairly large trade here for a famous player that may involve Alonso/Francisco being traded.
2) Upgrade Orlando? I say only do this if we could somehow land Hanley. Cabrera is still solid on D and ok on offense (although his OBP is pretty crappy). Trade the farm for Hanley if he's available.
3) Harang. What can we do with him? If he doesn't improve consistently I think it wouldn't be crazy to trade him (if possible) or move him to long relief and bring up Chapman, Maloney, Wood or anyone else who could do the same thing, but actually has potential. Another option here would be picking up an ace (lee, greinke, etc) to replace him and keep Chapman for the bullpen or incase someone gets hurt.


Thoughts? Any targets for bullpen improvements?

None of this works.

On another thread you laugh at the thought of the Reds affording Greinke in a trade. He only makes $7.5M this season. Yet you want to get Hanley Ramirez whose making $7M this year, $11M next year and $15M each of '12 and '13??????? Wake up from your dream. Ain't gonna happen.

Harang cannot be traded because his option for '11 automatically kicks in if he is traded and no team is going to take on his $12.5M contract for next year. We're stuck with him. On the other hand, he hasn't pitched too badly in these last 20 games we've played. Maybe Bryan Price has him on the right track?

I agree about adding a quality experienced bullpen arm. If we're considering Greinke, why not go after the Royals best bullpen arm, Joakim Soria? He has a career e.r.a. of 2.19 in 3.5 seasons. Currently has 23 K's in 16 innings. You want to trade the farm for Hanley Ramirez? I'm willing to nearly trade it for Greinke and Soria. I think that gives us a leg up on the Cards right there.

Just my $.02 cents.

1990REDS
05-18-2010, 06:35 PM
I would rather have dusty baker himself see the field before ciaro.

1990REDS
05-18-2010, 06:37 PM
Hanley ramirez is not gonna happen. I repeat. Hanley ramirez is NOT gonna happen.

NorrisHopper30
05-18-2010, 06:37 PM
None of this works.

On another thread you laugh at the thought of the Reds affording Greinke in a trade. He only makes $7.5M this season. Yet you want to get Hanley Ramirez whose making $7M this year, $11M next year and $15M each of '12 and '13??????? Wake up from your dream. Ain't gonna happen.

Harang cannot be traded because his option for '11 automatically kicks in if he is traded and no team is going to take on his $12.5M contract for next year. We're stuck with him. On the other hand, he hasn't pitched too badly in these last 20 games we've played. Maybe Bryan Price has him on the right track?

I agree about adding a quality experienced bullpen arm. If we're considering Greinke, why not go after the Royals best bullpen arm, Joakim Soria? He has a career e.r.a. of 2.19 in 3.5 seasons. Currently has 23 K's in 16 innings. You want to trade the farm for Hanley Ramirez? I'm willing to nearly trade it for Greinke and Soria. I think that gives us a leg up on the Cards right there.

Just my $.02 cents.

Soria would be a good pick up, nice find.

I didn't post anything about Greinke being a good option or not by the way, must've been someone else. But that is a good idea if we could somehow pick up both of them.

It's just I wonder if we did pick up Greinke what would happen with our current rotation? Harang to the bullpen?

Vottomatic
05-18-2010, 06:39 PM
Soria would be a good pick up, nice find.

I didn't post anything about Greinke being a good option or not by the way, must've been someone else. But that is a good idea if we could somehow pick up both of them.

It's just I wonder if we did pick up Greinke what would happen with our current rotation? Harang to the bullpen?

My bad. You're right. That was Phillipshead who posted that about Greinke on the other thread.

My apologies. :thumbup:

As for Harang, I think IF we'd pick up Greinke, they'd rest Mike Leake eventually. There's already talk of resting his arm after so many outings or pitches. Greinke could take his place. A trade like that wouldn't happen until late June or sometime in July anyway. But it's nice to dream about.

I'd love to get Greinke and Soria, if not to give us a huge leg up, but to also see the rest of our division squirm.

Kingspoint
05-18-2010, 06:43 PM
How can we improve this team?

Sell out the home games.

texasdave
05-18-2010, 06:50 PM
Why would these teams trade any of these players now? If they do decide to move them it would be prudent to wait until nearer the trading deadline in hopes of getting contending teams into a bidding war of sorts. If I am the Royals or Orioles etc., I would have to be overwhelmed to make a deal at this time.

Vottomatic
05-18-2010, 06:55 PM
Why would these teams trade any of these players now? If they do decide to move them it would be prudent to wait until nearer the trading deadline in hopes of getting contending teams into a bidding war of sorts. If I am the Royals or Orioles etc., I would have to be overwhelmed to make a deal at this time.

Not alot of contending teams have as much to trade as we do.

Greinke is only signed for 2 more years. Will the Royals contend in 2 more years? No way. They need to rebuild. Will he re-sign in '13? Not if he continues to be as dominant as he has been. So it's doubtful. If they're going to rebuild, they're better off saving the money, trading him now for the prospects they will rebuild with.

Same with Seattle and Cliff Lee. He's a FA after the season. Might as well get something for him now.

And why wait 'til nearly August 1st to trade these guys if you have a good trading partner now? Why not start the rebuilding process now????

Makes more sense than people give it.

ILoveWilly
05-18-2010, 06:57 PM
How can we improve this team?

Sell out the home games.

Word. :beerme:

redsfan_12
05-18-2010, 07:02 PM
forget the team, the attendance needs to grow lol

Reds42MLB
05-18-2010, 07:12 PM
Why in the hell start a thread like this when we are currently one of the hottest teams in baseball? Haven't you ever heard that you don't mess with a good thing??? The results are there right now, no need to try and fix or add to what isn't broken. Now is the not the time to play armchair GM, sorry but OP you should be ashamed of yourself.

redsfan_12
05-18-2010, 07:57 PM
Why in the hell start a thread like this when we are currently one of the hottest teams in baseball? Haven't you ever heard that you don't mess with a good thing??? The results are there right now, no need to try and fix or add to what isn't broken. Now is the not the time to play armchair GM, sorry but OP you should be ashamed of yourself.

:rolleyes:

GIDP
05-18-2010, 08:02 PM
Right now we cant really do anything other than drop Cairo for Valaika, and then drop Nix for Dorn after Dorn gets off the DL. Only real 2 moves at the moment that we could probably pull off at the time im guessing.

redsfan_12
05-18-2010, 08:14 PM
Right now we cant really do anything other than drop Cairo for Valaika, and then drop Nix for Dorn after Dorn gets off the DL. Only real 2 moves at the moment that we could probably pull off at the time im guessing.

Send Fischer down perhaps...but your right, nothing needed than the 2 you mentioned

1990REDS
05-18-2010, 08:35 PM
Why in the hell start a thread like this when we are currently one of the hottest teams in baseball? Haven't you ever heard that you don't mess with a good thing??? The results are there right now, no need to try and fix or add to what isn't broken. Now is the not the time to play armchair GM, sorry but OP you should be ashamed of yourself.

its a message board

Kingspoint
05-18-2010, 09:31 PM
Right now we cant really do anything other than drop Cairo for Valaika, and then drop Nix for Dorn after Dorn gets off the DL. Only real 2 moves at the moment that we could probably pull off at the time im guessing.


This is new territory for us REDS' fans.

There just isn't a lot that can be suggest to improve the team. Most of the players are young and time will take care of most improvements. Harang has shown the improvement we're hoping for and it's not even June, yet. Harang may still show even much more improvement to come. Bailey is certainly going to improve and Cueto should, also.

We have Dickerson coming back at the end of June. Chapman will be something to consider, then, too. But where does he pitch unless there's an injury? Del Rosario is pitching lights out in AAA as a Reliever.

And, what's the debate on Del Rosario versus Fisher? There's always a transition to the Majors and Fisher has to be given the chance to go through ups and downs so that he can learn.

As you said, Nix and Cairo are about the only ones who could be replaced.

jhc2010
05-18-2010, 09:38 PM
No changes until we start losing some games.

9-1 in their last 10 games BEST IN BASEBALL
16-5 in their last 21 games BEST IN BASEBALL

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

NeilHamburger
05-19-2010, 12:44 AM
Realistic potential improvements:

Cairo's spot:

1. Russell Branyon--Cleveland is out of it, I don't think it would take much to get him, and he'd be a decent bat off the bench, and to spell Rolen

Center

1. David DeJesus--Could give the Reds a decent leadoff guy, with some solid OBP in front of Phillips, Votto, Rolen


High Risk/High Reward

1. Grady Sizemore--His slump continues, and his value has to go down by the day. It is worriesome at this point, even for a big fan like myself. However, I still believe he can be that 05-08 player again. His trade value has to be down, and Cleveland has previously said they wouldn't deal him, but maybe if you offer them a solid deal (Alonso, Stubbs, and another good prospect) they bite.

bounty37h
05-19-2010, 11:38 AM
Why in the hell start a thread like this when we are currently one of the hottest teams in baseball? Haven't you ever heard that you don't mess with a good thing??? The results are there right now, no need to try and fix or add to what isn't broken. Now is the not the time to play armchair GM, sorry but OP you should be ashamed of yourself.

Yeah, cause us talking about it on here will make it come true? You should be ashamed of jumping onthe OP like that. I actually kinda agree with your thought process overall, as I wouldnt trade OCab for H-Ram right now, simply cause its working with OCab and he seems to fit well with the team, I think Henley is a better player but can see him disrupting the chemistry we finally have going on.

NorrisHopper30
05-19-2010, 02:29 PM
The best teams are the ones who look to improve even when they are in first..

Caveman Techie
05-19-2010, 04:05 PM
While the Reds have certainly been playing very good baseball lately, that doesn't mean you stop looking to improve. Either you improve, or you stand pat while your competition improves. I'm not saying trade the whole farm away for a half year rental player, but if something comes along that fills one of the needs this team has then by all means you do it.

Right now the Reds still need that high OBP guy for leadoff, and they need some help in the bullpen. Those are the two biggest areas I think they need to improve. OCab has done an admirable job as the leadoff hitter so far, but he just doesn't get on base enough.

ian_madden
05-19-2010, 05:31 PM
How can we improve this team?

Sell out the home games.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I completely agree. The front office has put a good product on the field. It is our turn to put butts in the stands.

Every game I have had a chance to go to, I have been at the park.

Its not that expensive. You can take a small cooler. FILL THE STADIUM!!!!

ThatPitchIsDunn
05-19-2010, 06:31 PM
Rumblings out of Boston are not only that Lowell's not happy there; he's basically asking for his release. That means the Sox would have to pick up his tab. I'm not too upset with taking a flyer on Lowell if that's the case, although I'm not sure if he'd be willing to come on board since he'd basically be backing up Rolen and Votto.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 07:15 PM
Rumblings out of Boston are not only that Lowell's not happy there; he's basically asking for his release. That means the Sox would have to pick up his tab. I'm not too upset with taking a flyer on Lowell if that's the case, although I'm not sure if he'd be willing to come on board since he'd basically be backing up Rolen and Votto.

He'd certainly be a better replacement at 1st Base than Cairo, but the reason Lowell wants out is he wants playing time. He wouldn't get it here. FWIW, he's played 1 game at 1B in his career and that was this year (one of the 5 games he's played).

If he'd be willing to accept the same amount of playing time that Cairo and Janish get, then I'd love to have him instead of Cairo.

Mr Larkin
05-19-2010, 08:41 PM
Why in the hell start a thread like this when we are currently one of the hottest teams in baseball? Haven't you ever heard that you don't mess with a good thing??? The results are there right now, no need to try and fix or add to what isn't broken. Now is the not the time to play armchair GM, sorry but OP you should be ashamed of yourself.

I agree. This is silly.

Griffey012
05-19-2010, 10:20 PM
The best teams are the ones who look to improve even when they are in first..

:thumbup: I agree. Obviously we shouldn't be trying to find a replacement for Votto or Bruce or anything crazy like that. But if we can get a clear improvement, you always have to try and get better.

Vottomatic
05-19-2010, 11:22 PM
If we make the postseason, I'll say it again..........we need a #1 starter.

webbbj
05-23-2010, 12:15 AM
If we make the postseason, I'll say it again..........we need a #1 starter.

completely agree. we got a bunch of #2 and #3 starters. I think if this team is gonna make a big splash for say cliff lee it will probably have to give up a lot and the organization has to be convinced that this will be the difference from just a playoff team to a WS contender. Right now i dont think they want to take that risk b/c we should have a nasty rotation next year and a real legit chance at a WS.

the realistic options for improvement are an outfield bat possibly carlos lee and an extra reliever in the pen. those are moves that will make a difference in a team that misses the playoffs and make the playoffs. from there just hope were the Hot team in the playoffs like the rockies or rays and make it to the WS.

Kingspoint
05-23-2010, 12:21 AM
If we make the postseason, I'll say it again..........we need a #1 starter.


While I agree with that statement, it's not unlikely that Cueto or Arroyo doesn't turn out to be that guy by the end of the season.

GIDP
05-23-2010, 12:25 AM
Leake, and Cueto look to be a pretty good 1 2 punch.

webbbj
05-23-2010, 12:36 AM
true and the very well could be legit #1 guys. but the problem with these two along with arroyo, bailey, gomes, bruce, and hannigan is their over achieving right now when you consider their careers as a whole. with cueto, bailey and bruce they are all young and they maybe beginning to hit their peaks in their careers. but guys like arroyo and gomes who have established themselves who are overachieving will they come back down to where their past successes would indicate? maybe maybe not? possibly they learned something that has improved their approach to the game.

Kingspoint
05-23-2010, 12:44 AM
true and the very well could be legit #1 guys. but the problem with these two along with arroyo, bailey, gomes, bruce, and hannigan is their over achieving right now when you consider their careers as a whole. with cueto, bailey and bruce they are all young and they maybe beginning to hit their peaks in their careers. but guys like arroyo and gomes who have established themselves who are overachieving will they come back down to where their past successes would indicate? maybe maybe not? possibly they learned something that has improved their approach to the game.


But, that's how you win Championships. You get several guys that overachieve during one particular season. This is a good omen.

Griffey012
05-23-2010, 12:48 AM
true and the very well could be legit #1 guys. but the problem with these two along with arroyo, bailey, gomes, bruce, and hannigan is their over achieving right now when you consider their careers as a whole. with cueto, bailey and bruce they are all young and they maybe beginning to hit their peaks in their careers. but guys like arroyo and gomes who have established themselves who are overachieving will they come back down to where their past successes would indicate? maybe maybe not? possibly they learned something that has improved their approach to the game.

Leake has no career to be overachieving against. Cueto should have been an all-star last season and fell apart in the 2nd half in his 2nd major league season. Arroyo is pitching worse than his career numbers, and has been one of the most underrated starters in the MLB the past few seasons. Bailey is still up and down. Bruce was the former top prospect in all of baseball, he has had his ups and downs, but is an all-star talent...no reason he can't play like one.

For once our players are playing collectively at their talent levels for the most part. Gomes and Hanigan are playing above their talents, but both can be very solid contributors and maybe full time players.

webbbj
05-23-2010, 12:50 AM
But, that's how you win Championships. You get several guys that overachieve during one particular season. This is a good omen.

or ur the phillies, yanks, sox and you get a roster full of guys that are proven players over a long period of time. but yeah the reds, rockies, twins, rays, etc need some overachievers.

Kingspoint
05-23-2010, 01:10 AM
or ur the phillies, yanks, sox and you get a roster full of guys that are proven players over a long period of time. but yeah the reds, rockies, twins, rays, etc need some overachievers.

We are what we are.

Kingspoint
05-23-2010, 01:21 AM
Leake has no career to be overachieving against. Cueto should have been an all-star last season and fell apart in the 2nd half in his 2nd major league season. Arroyo is pitching worse than his career numbers, and has been one of the most underrated starters in the MLB the past few seasons. Bailey is still up and down. Bruce was the former top prospect in all of baseball, he has had his ups and downs, but is an all-star talent...no reason he can't play like one.

For once our players are playing collectively at their talent levels for the most part. Gomes and Hanigan are playing above their talents, but both can be very solid contributors and maybe full time players.

No one "should be an All-Star" in their 2nd season.

Arroyo has pitched great his last 5 starts and those are the only 5 starts I'm interested in right now.

Vottomatic
05-23-2010, 11:51 AM
completely agree. we got a bunch of #2 and #3 starters. I think if this team is gonna make a big splash for say cliff lee it will probably have to give up a lot and the organization has to be convinced that this will be the difference from just a playoff team to a WS contender. Right now i dont think they want to take that risk b/c we should have a nasty rotation next year and a real legit chance at a WS.

the realistic options for improvement are an outfield bat possibly carlos lee and an extra reliever in the pen. those are moves that will make a difference in a team that misses the playoffs and make the playoffs. from there just hope were the Hot team in the playoffs like the rockies or rays and make it to the WS.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

But I have to disagree about acquiring another outfielder. Nix and Gomes have combined to be the third most productive LF offensively in all of MLB. (see Fay's article today) And we're only paying them a combined $1.4M. If I'm concerned about any outfield spot, it's the lack of offensive production from CF. Kinda shocked Dusty is playing Stubbs so much and not giving Heisey more time in CF.

I would try and pry Soria away from the Royals. We really need bullpen help.

PlugALeake
05-23-2010, 12:23 PM
Soria would be great for our pen, but how much are we willing to give up for him? And could we get Sizemore for less?

Vottomatic
05-23-2010, 07:57 PM
With Rolen's aches and pains, I was hoping maybe we could trade for Mike Lowell, who is very unhappy with his lack of playing time in Boston. Then I looked at his ridiculous $12.5M contract for this year and realized it won't happen. They have 3 third basemen in Boston - Adrien Beltre, Lowell and Youkilis, although Youk plays 1B most of the time. And they're paying Beltre $10M this season. Unreal. Lowell is a FA after this season.

Just looking for someone to spell Rolen occasionally where maybe Scott only has to play 120 to 130 games and remains fresh.

webbbj
05-23-2010, 08:18 PM
Thanks for agreeing with me.

But I have to disagree about acquiring another outfielder. Nix and Gomes have combined to be the third most productive LF offensively in all of MLB. (see Fay's article today) And we're only paying them a combined $1.4M. If I'm concerned about any outfield spot, it's the lack of offensive production from CF. Kinda shocked Dusty is playing Stubbs so much and not giving Heisey more time in CF.

I would try and pry Soria away from the Royals. We really need bullpen help.

yeah idk why i said carlos lee he isnt a CF. i wasnt suggesting improving LF but rather an upgrade to CF. though a proven #1 starter would be great were better off with getting a late inning relief pitcher

Griffey012
05-23-2010, 09:18 PM
No one "should be an All-Star" in their 2nd season.

Arroyo has pitched great his last 5 starts and those are the only 5 starts I'm interested in right now.

Look at Cueto's numbers at the all-star break last season. It is quickly forgotten how good he was in the first half of last season. Official rosters were announced July 5th, right before Cueto got torched for 9 runs in 2/3rds of an inning. At the time he was 8-4, 2.69 E.R.A., 1.12 WHIP, 103.2 IP, 78k's. Those are all-star numbers. You gotta remember Jason Marquis made it and was 10-5 with a 3.87 ERA at July 5th. And Ted Lilly who was 8-6 with a 3.32 ERA. Yes, Cueto should have been and all-star in his 2nd season.

I am also interested in the fact that Arroyo has been a great pitcher for us the past few season's. Arroyo's overall line this season is below his career norm, meaning he should/will continue to pitch like he has in his last 5 starts. That's all I was saying.