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redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 06:42 PM
Back to the normal lineup..lets keep it going

Orlando Cabrera 6

Brandon Phillips 4

Joey Votto 3

Scott Rolen 5

Jay Bruce 9

Jonny Gomes 7

Drew Stubbs 8

Ramon Hernandez 2

Aaron Harang 1

Reds
05-19-2010, 06:48 PM
It would be a big positive for this club if Harang can match what the other starters have been doing.

Kawakami is 0-6 hope we keep him down.

Gunner44
05-19-2010, 08:06 PM
Just listened to some of the pregame call in show for the first time in forever. I rememebered why i stopped listening lol. The calls were just dreadful, had no clue what they were talking about. Ok rant over. Go Reds!

stevekun
05-19-2010, 08:09 PM
Lets keep the winning going boys!!!! GO Reds

stevekun
05-19-2010, 08:11 PM
Has Brandon Phillips had a day off this year?

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:14 PM
Has Brandon Phillips had a day off this year?

No

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:15 PM
Votto 2 out single

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:18 PM
Rolen singles

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 08:18 PM
A little 2-out rally anyone?

Knightro28
05-19-2010, 08:19 PM
I don't think I am the only one expecting a bomb from Bruce every time he hits lately. He has been hot, just lacking those power numbers.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:19 PM
Cabrera (before that at-bat) is batting .317 when he bats 1st in the order, plus a .333 OBP.

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 08:22 PM
Kawakami just stepped up and challenged Bruce with two fastballs, and Jay just whiffed on both of them.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:22 PM
When Cabrera bats 2nd, he only has an OBP of .288, but he's got a little more power.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:24 PM
Cmon Jay..2 straight fastballs down the pike..you gotta connect.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:25 PM
wow..what a catch by phillips!!

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 08:25 PM
Oh no ... Brandon ...

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:25 PM
For you guys watching this game, I was wondering if you would comment on how often Harang shakes off Hernandez.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:26 PM
Guess I'll see it on mlb-network in a moment.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:26 PM
hes smiling..seems to be hes okay..whew..

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 08:27 PM
I thought he may have hurt his elbow the way he grabbed it after landing awkwardly. Looks fine now anyways.

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 08:27 PM
For you guys watching this game, I was wondering if you would comment on how often Harang shakes off Hernandez.

Right now they're cruising. Literally no disagreement between the two.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:27 PM
Just saw the replay. Looks like he threw up on the field. Perhaps his own elbow caught him in the stomach.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:28 PM
double for Heyward..

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 08:28 PM
What a piece of hitting that was. Great job of inside-outing that ball into left by Heyward.

mattfeet
05-19-2010, 08:29 PM
What a piece of hitting that was. Great job of inside-outing that ball into left by Heyward.

Yea, nice pitch by Harang, better hit by Heyward...

-Matt

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:29 PM
REDS/Braves on mlb network tomorrow afternoon.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:30 PM
throwing BP arentya harang?

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 08:30 PM
Aaron really got that ball up.

mattfeet
05-19-2010, 08:30 PM
He's STILL good.

-Matt

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:31 PM
So, what was this "Aaron's not using two pitches he has" quote from Bryan Price all about?

Knightro28
05-19-2010, 08:31 PM
Aaron really got that ball up.

Yeah he missed high a couple times against Heyward too...

TheOnlyRedsFan
05-19-2010, 08:31 PM
Heyward is a beast

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:31 PM
He threw 4 straight fastballs to Chipper Jones. You don't think Chipper's going to time them?

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:32 PM
my god.

mattfeet
05-19-2010, 08:32 PM
Aaron being Aaron.......Wow.

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 08:32 PM
Fasten your seatbelts Reds fans ...

FlyerFanatic
05-19-2010, 08:32 PM
welcome back harang

mattfeet
05-19-2010, 08:32 PM
welcome back harang

We missed his true self.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 08:32 PM
Can we trade this loser Aaron Harang now? The guy is a loser. I don't wanna hear about Fip or xFip or Babip or any other -ip. Aaron Harang is a loser. Deal him please.

TheOnlyRedsFan
05-19-2010, 08:32 PM
oh gosh damn it Harang

TheOnlyRedsFan
05-19-2010, 08:33 PM
Can we trade this loser Aaron Harang now? The guy is a loser. I don't wanna hear about Fip or xFip or Babip or any other -ip. Aaron Harang is a loser. Deal him please.

cant get anything out of nothing

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:33 PM
Can we trade this loser Aaron Harang now? The guy is a loser. I don't wanna hear about Fip or xFip or Babip or any other -ip. Aaron Harang is a loser. Deal him please.

:thumbup:

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:33 PM
He' the most stubborn pitcher I've ever seen. He just needs to get out of himself and listen to his pitching coach.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:33 PM
I hate this "auto-refresh" now. I wish there was a way to turn it off.

ILoveWilly
05-19-2010, 08:33 PM
There's the useless Harang we're all used to. Hope you enjoy your $12 million check for hurting our team guy. What a waste.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 08:34 PM
Now he will settle down and we will hear all the Harang supporters say, "well if it wasn't for one or two pitches". Blah, blah blah. It is always the same with this loser. One or two pitches.

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 08:35 PM
Maybe Aaron will pull a Homer Bailey from yesterday. Probably not, but hey, we can hope.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 08:35 PM
If it wasn't for a great play by Phillips it would be 4 zip.

ILoveWilly
05-19-2010, 08:35 PM
Another question: are we still up high in the league in 1st inning runs? We may have a ton of last AB wins, but we suck just as much in the first inning, just like last year. I wish this problem would go away. And the inning is over, 3 given up, great job Harang.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 08:36 PM
It has come to the point where I EXPECT the Reds to lose when Harang takes the mound.

sivman17
05-19-2010, 08:36 PM
He's STILL good.

-Matt

no

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 08:36 PM
3 runs and this board brings out the torches and pitchforks ... calm down guys there's a lot of baseball left to be played tonight.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:36 PM
Harang had 3 decent starts, then went backwards against the Cards...now he's going further backwards. He could still turn it around over his next two starts.

mattfeet
05-19-2010, 08:36 PM
Ya know what bothers me the most about Harang? It's not the runs he gives up, the poor pitches, the stubbornness, anything. It's the complete lack of passion he shows for the game. He needs to have a sit down chat with Johnny Gomes to try to get some of his passion for the game. It just seems that after he got shelled for 3 runs in the 1st inning tonight, walking off the mound he was completely indifferent about everything.

-Matt

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 08:36 PM
no

May have been talking about Chipper.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:37 PM
I hate this auto refresh thing. I wish there was a way to turn it off.

mattfeet
05-19-2010, 08:37 PM
no

That was in regards to Chipper Jones, not Harang.

-Matt

sivman17
05-19-2010, 08:37 PM
That was in regards to Chipper Jones, not Harang.

-Matt

oh, my b.

yeah, chipper is still good, i agree. now harang is a different story

texasdave
05-19-2010, 08:38 PM
The Reds are gonna have to put up at least half a dozen against Kawasaki or whatever this guy's name is.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 08:38 PM
Rally cap time.

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 08:39 PM
That was one low strike right there. Looked like it was at the ankles.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:40 PM
why not bunt stubbs there? I know hes been hot, but we need 3, not 1

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:41 PM
nevermind..i thought Gomes was on 2nd

texasdave
05-19-2010, 08:42 PM
This pitcher is gonna get hammered. Slugfest tonight. That batting practice fastball was room service and Razor missed it.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:42 PM
Chapman can't come up to the Majors (or Lehr or Maloney or anyone else for that matter) until one of these pitchers proves that he's not worthy of being a part of the staff.

These things have a tendency to take care of themselves. If Harang doesn't improve over his next 3 starts like he did he 3 starts before his St. Louis Cards effort on Friday, then he's going to be the odd-man out.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:43 PM
RH rung up..right down the shoot

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:44 PM
Harang had a 1.333 SLG and 1.833 OPS in that first inning.

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 08:44 PM
RH rung up..right down the shoot

More like just barely catching the corner, but yeah, it was a strike all the way. Good pitch.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 08:44 PM
More like just barely catching the corner, but yeah, it was a strike all the way. Good pitch.

Too good to look at with two strikes.

sivman17
05-19-2010, 08:44 PM
Harang had a 1.333 SLG and 1.833 OPS in that first inning.

and a 27 ERA

texasdave
05-19-2010, 08:45 PM
and a 27 ERA

And he almost brought his season ERA down. =)

texasdave
05-19-2010, 08:45 PM
That might the first time all year Kawakami has been two consecutive scoreless innings.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:46 PM
Kearns just got hit in the head, but he's OK.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:46 PM
That might the first time all year Kawakami has been two consecutive scoreless innings.

I'd trade him for Harang and pay half of Harang's salary in a heartbeat.

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 08:47 PM
This pitcher is gonna get hammered. Slugfest tonight. That batting practice fastball was room service and Razor missed it.

Maybe

For some reason, at times, this offense likes to sleep walk until they can rally late.

We let Parra off the hook multiple times early yesterday, and let an 0-6, 6+
ERA pitcher off the hook in the first.

I like the way we've been swinging the bats lately, and really like the way most of our guys have been working the count instead of just swinging at everything. But we do sleepwalk at times.

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 08:47 PM
Kearns just got hit in the head, but he's OK.

Austin has quite the predisposition to getting beaned in the head ... I seem to recall him getting hit like that a few times in the past.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:47 PM
theres a single

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 08:48 PM
Another ball up in the zone.

edit: he's lucky that was only a single.

sivman17
05-19-2010, 08:48 PM
honestly i see no reason to have harang pitch any more... i would much rather have an unpolished chapman pitch every 5 days than this loser... before this game, he's already responsible for 5 of our 16 losses

just bring up chapman.. i don't care what they do with harang. just do not start him

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 08:50 PM
Chapman would be much worse than this. At least Harang doesn't walk 5 per 9 IP. There is nothing more frustrating than watching a guy who can't throw strikes.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:50 PM
wow. the freaking pitcher hit a smash off of him

mattfeet
05-19-2010, 08:50 PM
honestly i see no reason to have harang pitch any more... i would much rather have an unpolished chapman pitch every 5 days than this loser... before this game, he's already responsible for 5 of our 16 losses

just bring up chapman.. i don't care what they do with harang. just do not start him

Id bring up Wood before Chapman. I think he's more MLB ready at this point.

-Matt

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:51 PM
LOL..Marty giving Harang hell on the radio

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 08:52 PM
wow. the freaking pitcher hit a smash off of him
The freaking pitcher with one hit this year.

sivman17
05-19-2010, 08:52 PM
LOL..Marty giving Harang hell on the radio

what's he saying?

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:52 PM
I was surprised Harang actually had 3 good outings in a row before going back to his old self. It's hard to undo "stubborn" tendencies. There's a cockiness that can only be undone with humility. When you get paid as much jack as he does, it's hard to be humble. Maybe if Dusty didn't coddle him so much and treat him like the second coming of Don Drysdale, Harang could learn some humility and start doing the things his pitching coach tells him to do (like using his other two pitches). I can't imagine as fat as he was for those years that he has much of a work ethic.

Harang's running out of time to prove himself. He'll have two more starts in May after this and then it gets serious. The REDS will have to try to get rid of him so Wood, Chapman, Lehr or Maloney can get a shot.

Knightro28
05-19-2010, 08:52 PM
LOL..Marty giving Harang hell on the radio

As is Thom on television (Harang continues to fall behind batter after batter)

texasdave
05-19-2010, 08:52 PM
Nibble, nibble. Has to come in. Gets hammered. Rinse, repeat.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:53 PM
LOL..Marty giving Harang hell on the radio


Good. Harang needs to be humbled.

It's the only way he's going to change.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 08:54 PM
I just caught the end of what Thom said, I heard Marty on the computer, so I turned him up..basically just saying hes not fooling anyone, and is by far the weakest link in the rotation. It went on about 5 minutes

texasdave
05-19-2010, 08:54 PM
Harang doesn't care. Has he ever shown the slightest inclination of caring?

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:54 PM
As is Thom on television (Harang continues to fall behind batter after batter)

Also good.

I hope Harang hears it from someone.

FlyerFanatic
05-19-2010, 08:55 PM
Harang doesn't care. Has he ever shown the slightest inclination of caring?

i'm wondering if harang thought he would have been out of cincy by now and at this point cant wait to leave. some guys just dont show emotion, but man, isnt he upset with himself just a little bit?

sivman17
05-19-2010, 08:56 PM
Also good.

I hope Harang hears it from someone.

Well it's not going to be Dusty.. the one person that he needs to be hearing it from.

sivman17
05-19-2010, 08:57 PM
i'm wondering if harang thought he would have been out of cincy by now and at this point cant wait to leave. some guys just dont show emotion, but man, isnt he upset with himself just a little bit?

The only time I've ever everrrrr seen him show any emotion is when he pitched a good game and he didn't get any run support.

He doesn't get upset when he pitches poorly. I guess when you do it so often you're kind of accustomed to it and you expect it.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 08:57 PM
The only time I've ever everrrrr seen him show any emotion is when he pitched a good game and he didn't get any run support.

He doesn't get upset when he pitches poorly. I guess when you do it so often you're kind of accustomed to it and you expect it.

Yes, when he pitches well but doesn't get any run support he whines pretty consistently.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 08:58 PM
Harang doesn't care. Has he ever shown the slightest inclination of caring?


That really has a lot to do with it.

It's like those Restaurant owners from Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmare's shows, where they "think they care", but their egos are so damn huge that they care more about their ego than they actually care about the "results", and they're a sinking ship with no hope until they humble themselves.

Unfortunately, Dusty Baker is the opposite of Gordon Ramsey. Instead of berating them and showing them (Harang) for what he is, Baker coddles him and treats him like a Superstar...a Superstar that he just isn't.

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 08:58 PM
I was surprised Harang actually had 3 good outings in a row before going back to his old self. It's hard to undo "stubborn" tendencies. There's a cockiness that can only be undone with humility. When you get paid as much jack as he does, it's hard to be humble. Maybe if Dusty didn't coddle him so much and treat him like the second coming of Don Drysdale, Harang could learn some humility and start doing the things his pitching coach tells him to do (like using his other two pitches). I can't imagine as fat as he was for those years that he has much of a work ethic.

Harang's running out of time to prove himself. He'll have two more starts in May after this and then it gets serious. The REDS will have to try to get rid of him so Wood, Chapman, Lehr or Maloney can get a shot.

I don't know. We've done the Lehr thing.... and the Maloney thing. Not saying either are worse than Harang. Maloney has the same homer tendencies, though I don't know offhand how the stats come out. Lehr was a nice story who pitched decently last year, but would have trouble sustaining it. Personally I'm a little tired of the Lehr's and to a lesser extent the Maloney's, but especially the Lehr's. Guys who have little in the way of stuff and are always at a risk to give up 6 or 7 runs, whether they do or not. We've seen plenty of those guys take their turn in the rotation over the years.

Of course, Harang isn't too far away from that... they may be low 90's, sometimes 93, but a straight 93 mph fastball in the middle of the plate gets hammered.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 08:59 PM
Kawakami is going to be 35 next month. :eek:

Knightro28
05-19-2010, 08:59 PM
Lol Phillips has fouled off like 3 balls in which he just poses and makes a face like "Oh snap I should have had that one"

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:00 PM
It is just a matter of time against Kawakami.

sivman17
05-19-2010, 09:00 PM
HR right here by Jo Vo

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:01 PM
I don't know. We've done the Lehr thing.... and the Maloney thing. Not saying either are worse than Harang. Maloney has the same homer tendencies, though I don't know offhand how the stats come out. Lehr was a nice story who pitched decently last year, but would have trouble sustaining it. Personally I'm a little tired of the Lehr's and to a lesser extent the Maloney's, but especially the Lehr's. Guys who have little in the way of stuff and are always at a risk to give up 6 or 7 runs, whether they do or not. We've seen plenty of those guys take their turn in the rotation over the years.

Of course, Harang isn't too far away from that... they may be low 90's, sometimes 93, but a straight 93 mph fastball in the middle of the plate gets hammered.

Don't expect a Rookie pitcher to ever have an ERA under 5.00, and it will usually be above 6.00. It's better to make a Lehr or Maloney or Wood and their high ERA be our 5th starter, and get their first experiences over with than to keep throwing Harang out there like he's our ACE of the staff.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:01 PM
Ok how about an HR right here by Sco Ro. LOL

Knightro28
05-19-2010, 09:01 PM
UNLUCKY

sivman17
05-19-2010, 09:02 PM
ohhhh mann that sucks

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 09:02 PM
bad break there. Phillips was going home

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:02 PM
Oh geez. The Reds get unlucky on that one.

mattfeet
05-19-2010, 09:02 PM
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuu tough break....

Knightro28
05-19-2010, 09:02 PM
Dang

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 09:03 PM
dammit Jay

sivman17
05-19-2010, 09:03 PM
that sucks soo much... AHHHHH

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:03 PM
I think Harang still has the talent. It's what's between his ears that's the problem.

As bad as it looks right now, there's still some time for Bryan Price to get through to him. Wait 3 more starts and then see. If Harang doesn't start putting up Game Scores of over 50 on a consistent basis when June gets here, then I'll finally admit that he's done and he's beyond help.

FlyerFanatic
05-19-2010, 09:03 PM
we arent in cincy anymore boys. gotta put more on it than normal

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:03 PM
Kawakami can't believe it. Three innings, no runs.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 09:04 PM
Kawakami can't believe it. Three innings, no runs.

I figured he'd be out of the game by now

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:04 PM
I think the Reds would like more than just an average game score for 12 million.

sivman17
05-19-2010, 09:05 PM
I figured he'd be out of the game by now

braves fans are saying the same thing about harang

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:06 PM
I think the Reds would like more than just an average game score for 12 million.

They should be getting an average game score of above 60 for that money. But, I'd take an average of 56 from June 1st on. That's probably better than any rookie could give us. Most rookies won't average 50. (Leake is a once in a lifetime prospect).

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:07 PM
Chipper grabs some bench.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 09:07 PM
braves fans are saying the same thing about harang

yeah, but this guy is 0-6..atleast Harang has a win lol

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 09:08 PM
Don't expect a Rookie pitcher to ever have an ERA under 5.00, and it will usually be above 6.00. It's better to make a Lehr or Maloney or Wood and their high ERA be our 5th starter, and get their first experiences over with than to keep throwing Harang out there like he's our ACE of the staff.

Lehr's not an ordinary "young rookie (which was he even a rookie last year?), as he'll be 33 this year.

That said... as a fifth starter, sure he might be ok. I would hope he would be a bit better than Owings in that role last year. But Lehr's probably the last guy I'd pick of those you mentioned, unless Chapman was in that list, or unless you're just looking for experience.

I don't know... best is Harang getting his act together, but it doesn't seem like that's happening anytime soon.

Hey, he just struck out Chipper!:beerme:

Knightro28
05-19-2010, 09:10 PM
Soo... Maybe we should move BP to SS

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:11 PM
Did you guys see the chin-shot the REDS fan got off of Chipper Jones' foul ball?

Man, that's going to leave a welt. I doubt if he can feel his tongue right now.

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 09:11 PM
I think Harang still has the talent. It's what's between his ears that's the problem.

As bad as it looks right now, there's still some time for Bryan Price to get through to him. Wait 3 more starts and then see. If Harang doesn't start putting up Game Scores of over 50 on a consistent basis when June gets here, then I'll finally admit that he's done and he's beyond help.

He loses himself and loses location at the most inopportune times. I think Thom brought up the point earlier... falling behind in the count. Aaron in 06 and 07 was almost always strike 1. Now he's ball one, sometimes ball 2, and throws that middling fastball down the middle of the plate and gets hammered.

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 09:13 PM
Cya later Hinske. Dirty offering there on a swinging strike three.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:13 PM
Harang with a 1-2-3 third.

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 09:13 PM
Harang with a 1-2-3 third.

He gave up a single to Glaus.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:14 PM
He gave up a single to Glaus.

Not in Houston he didn't. LOL. Ok. The ball Phillips fielded but couldn't make a play. I stand corrected.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:14 PM
Lehr's not an ordinary "young rookie (which was he even a rookie last year?), as he'll be 33 this year.



Any of our AAA pitchers that force their way up the ladder. Then you let them take their lumps at the big league level (different situation for each pitcher, of course).

Taking our lumps with Harang come July, August and September if hasn't completely turned it arounnd in June, is just tossing the season away.

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 09:15 PM
Now that was a nice pitch to Hinske, even though Hinske isn't all that good, it was still a nice pitch.

It would be funny with all the complaining, by me included, if Harang goes 6 or 7 innings and gives up those 3 runs. That's not a "bad" start, and we're talking about dumping him. Of course, I agree on the seeming lack of emotion. I also think it would obviously be less funny if we lose 3-0,3-1, 3-2, or just lose no matter the score.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:16 PM
Why do some pitchers consistently get run support and others don't? I can't believe that is just a random occurrence.

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 09:17 PM
Any of our AAA pitchers that force their way up the ladder. Then you let them take their lumps at the big league level (different situation for each pitcher, of course).

Taking our lumps with Harang come July, August and September if hasn't completely turned it arounnd in June, is just tossing the season away.

Just depends. If we're still hanging around and competing at the point, I'd rather not see any pitchers "take their lumps"... especially a young one.

RedsFanInBama
05-19-2010, 09:17 PM
We're hitting the ball hard.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:18 PM
We're hitting the ball hard.

That ball by Stubbs sounded like it was hit hard on the radio.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 09:18 PM
That was quick

sivman17
05-19-2010, 09:18 PM
Why do some pitchers consistently get run support and others don't. I can't believe that is just a random occurrence.

What are you trying to imply? That the players don't rally around Harang when he pitches because they don't like him?

Cause I buy that. And if you weren't implying that, I am.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:19 PM
Why do some pitchers consistently get run support and others don't. I can't believe that is just a random occurrence.

It's not.

As Rolen and Larkin have said the last few days (when talking about Leake), he keeps them on their toes and in the game. While that's a defensive thing, it still goes into the mind of the player and keeps them fresh and thinking about the game.

There's a lot of things Harang does wrong, and he should get credit for that, too. You don't hear defenders saying about him, "I love how he pitches because he keeps us on our toes and in the game."

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 09:20 PM
Why do some pitchers consistently get run support and others don't. I can't believe that is just a random occurrence.

Harang has often faced other team's aces. Kawakami though is obviously not one of them, though the Reds are trying to get him his first win of the year.

Don't know how they feel about playing behind Aaron in the field and at the plate. I know Rolen commented how he loved playing behind Leake because he worked so quickly and came after the hitters. I don't know, maybe the team takes on Aaron's seeming lack of fire when he's out there. Hard to say.

RedsFanInBama
05-19-2010, 09:20 PM
You telling me Harang doesn't inspire his teammates? That's hard to believe.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:22 PM
I hear that a lot about Harang facing the other team's ACE's, but I doubt if he does any more than Arroyo. Other than the 1st start of the season, a pitching staff gets upturned and days off are different for every club after that. I'm sure if it was looked up, Harang wouldn't face any more ACES than Cueto or Arroyo.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 09:22 PM
You telling me Harang doesn't inspire his teammates? That's hard to believe.

I can somewhat believe that..it seems like he is monotone out there.

sivman17
05-19-2010, 09:23 PM
I can somewhat believe that..it seems like he is monotone out there.

i think he was being sarcastic

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 09:25 PM
inning over. Maybe we can get a PH for Harang ;)

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 09:25 PM
i think he was being sarcastic

as was I lol

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:27 PM
I just looked it up on www.baseball-reference.com, and if I am reading those charts correctly the Reds have scored 18 first-inning runs and given up 18 first-inning runs coming into tonight's game. I would have never guessed that.

sivman17
05-19-2010, 09:27 PM
slowest double ever hahaha

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 09:27 PM
HArang doubles :eek:

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:28 PM
Marty is the best play-by-play man I have ever heard when he is properly motivated. (Or maybe he just sounds so good after listening to Brantley fly solo for a couple of innings.)

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 09:28 PM
Harang with a double! Btw that first pitch was an incredibly low strike considering who was at the plate.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:28 PM
I just looked it up on www.baseball-reference.com, and if I am reading those charts correctly the Reds have scored 18 first-inning runs and given up 18 first-inning runs coming into tonight's game. I would have never guessed that.

On that note, the REDS have failed to score at least 3 runs only 5 times this season, so odds are they will score at least 3 runs today.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 09:29 PM
Marty is the best play-by-play man I have ever heard when he is properly motivated.

ditto. I feel like he and Thom are the best. I may be biased, but..

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:30 PM
We're 16-3 when we've scored at least 5 runs this season.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 09:30 PM
cmon Phillips

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:31 PM
We're 14-0 when we've given up 3 runs or less this season.

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 09:31 PM
I hear that a lot about Harang facing the other team's ACE's, but I doubt if he does any more than Arroyo. Other than the 1st start of the season, a pitching staff gets upturned and days off are different for every club after that. I'm sure if it was looked up, Harang wouldn't face any more ACES than Cueto or Arroyo.

I think he's faced Carpenter both times we've faced Carpenter. I know he's faced Josh Johnson. But other than that, yeah, I'm not sure.

rolenmvp
05-19-2010, 09:31 PM
the bats have been stagnent tonight.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 09:32 PM
We're 14-0 when we've given up 3 runs or less this season.

I still think we'll win this game if we dont give up another run..but I doubt that will happen

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 09:32 PM
Phillips not hitting at all right now.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:32 PM
We need back-to-back from JoVo and ScoRo. :thumbup:

sivman17
05-19-2010, 09:33 PM
I think he's faced Carpenter both times we've faced Carpenter. I know he's faced Josh Johnson. But other than that, yeah, I'm not sure.

Harang facing the other team's aces may or may not be true, I really don't know. But when you have a 6+ ERA no matter who you are facing you aren't going to win many games.

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 09:33 PM
Joeyyyyyyyyy.

RedsFanInBama
05-19-2010, 09:33 PM
Great execution at the plate. :(

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:33 PM
Harang facing the other team's aces may or may not be true, I really don't know. But when you have a 6+ ERA no matter who you are facing you aren't going to win many games.

That is so true.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:33 PM
Reds should have two runs right now.

rolenmvp
05-19-2010, 09:33 PM
inning over. not looking good for a win tonight.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:34 PM
Hey. We're facing their ACE.

At least, by the score it looks like it.

Let's go!!!

There's lot's of game to be played.

RedsFanInBama
05-19-2010, 09:34 PM
inning over. not looking good for a win tonight.
Too early for that. The Braves are a terrible team. A lot could still happen.

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 09:34 PM
inning over. not looking good for a win tonight.

Wasn't everyone thinking this yesterday? Stick around, this guy can't shut us out forever.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:34 PM
Maybe the Braves can trade for Trevor Hoffman real quick.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 09:36 PM
please get him out of there

RedsFanInBama
05-19-2010, 09:36 PM
Where the hell was Bruce playing that it took him so long to get to that ball?

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 09:37 PM
Too early for that. The Braves are a terrible team. A lot could still happen.

Yep. But it's extremely frustrating to see us get our lunch handed to us by a struggling pitcher and let him off the hook 3 times tonight.

Meanwhile, Heyward triples. Wanna bet the Braves get him in off Harang?

rolenmvp
05-19-2010, 09:37 PM
I am in agreement for a harang trade. the guy has not got it done the last 2 years. something is not right.

RedsFanInBama
05-19-2010, 09:38 PM
Harang sucks.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:38 PM
At least we'll stay 14-0 when holding teams to 3 runs or less.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:38 PM
More BP served up by Aaron.

rolenmvp
05-19-2010, 09:38 PM
get him out of there baker. enough is enough.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 09:38 PM
Ive said it since Sunday. I just have a feeling that we will lose/ STL will win before we win/ STL loses

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 09:39 PM
More BP served up by Aaron.

Wake up that was hardly BP. Pitch was low and right on the corner. Just a great piece of hitting by Chipper.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:39 PM
We've got a great bullpen, very capable of holding the Braves scoreless. If Harang can hold them to 4 runs, then we can still come back and send this to extra innings.

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 09:40 PM
More BP served up by Aaron.

Fell behind 2-0 in the count. How was that going to go well?:thumbdown

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:40 PM
Harang's ERA his last two starts is above 7.00.

But, we can still win this game.

Seriously. That's why all of you are still here.

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 09:41 PM
That one was a laser. Lucky for us it was hit right at Rolen.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:42 PM
Wake up that was hardly BP. Pitch was low and right on the corner. Just a great piece of hitting by Chipper.

It's kinda hard to see on radio. I have to go by what the announcers call.

George Foster
05-19-2010, 09:42 PM
How long do the reds keep running Harang out there?

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:42 PM
.750 SLG and 1.179 OPS so far tonight through the McCann at-bat.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:42 PM
Rally time!!!

rolenmvp
05-19-2010, 09:42 PM
How long do the reds keep running Harang out there?

until the GM decides where to trade him to.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:44 PM
until the GM decides where to trade him to.

He's always been the #1 candidate to be replaced by Chapman. It's been up to him to keep Chapman down in AAA.

RedsFanInBama
05-19-2010, 09:44 PM
Wake up that was hardly BP. Pitch was low and right on the corner. Just a great piece of hitting by Chipper.
Funny how Chipper, who was batting .223 entering the game, figures things out against Harang. Not a coincidence, by the way.

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 09:44 PM
It's kinda hard to see on radio. I have to go by what the announcers call.

Then maybe you should hold your tongue. Or at least check out gameday or something. Honestly the hating on Harang is understandable but it gets old when he's making good pitches and people say stuff like that.

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 09:44 PM
It's kinda hard to see on radio. I have to go by what the announcers call.

I honestly wasn't watching that close to see if it was on the corner. I would hardly call it great pitching or even a "good pitch" by Harang, because falling behind in the count 2-0 to a hitter like Chipper Jones, even at this stage of his career, generally doesn't lead to a good pitch.

George Foster
05-19-2010, 09:45 PM
until the GM decides where to trade him to.

You can't trade him, I thing he's making like 10 million this year. Bring up Chapman and send Harang to the pen. The Cubs were not afraid to pull the trigger on Zambrano.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:45 PM
Then maybe you should hold your tongue. Or at least check out gameday or something. Honestly the hating on Harang is understandable but it gets old when he's making good pitches and people say stuff like that.

Whatever, jerk.

goreds2
05-19-2010, 09:45 PM
Rally time!!!

Agreed, Aaron H. has pretty much kept the Braves in check since the 1st inning. We still gotta shot at winning this game. Nice to see a positive reply.

RedsFanInBama
05-19-2010, 09:46 PM
Has Harang ever recovered from that outing against San Diego a couple years ago? You know, the 18-inning (something like that) game?

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 09:48 PM
All the old Harang talking points coming out again, I see. This start hasn't even been that much of a disaster. The real story of this game is the offense sucking horribly, not Harang.

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 09:49 PM
Harang's ERA his last two starts is above 7.00.

But, we can still win this game.

Seriously. That's why all of you are still here.


Eh, I'm actually leaving, though I'll probably come back. Bats need to come alive. Wonder if there's a letdown going on the road. I would hope not with some of the guys we have who hopefully keep things in check in that area like Rolen and Cabrera.

There will be lulls at points. Hopefully they turn it around tonight, and if not, hopefully tomorrow. Hanson is a good bit better than Kawakami. Fortunately Leake has been a good bit better than Harang.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:49 PM
Darn. I went and put my REDS' hat on and it didn't work.

I'm leaving it on. I hadn't worn it all year until just this second. I didn't get it on, though until Gomes was already up.

Knightro28
05-19-2010, 09:50 PM
This start hasn't even been that much of a disaster.

Oh ok that makes it better.

RedsFanInBama
05-19-2010, 09:50 PM
Call it whatever you want, but the guy has given up 8 hits and 4 runs in 5 innings. That's garbage.

Yes, the offense has done a poor job of capitalizing on its opportunities.

George Foster
05-19-2010, 09:50 PM
Has Harang ever recovered from that outing against San Diego a couple years ago? You know, the 18-inning (something like that) game?

I don't think his straight as an arrow fastball and falling behind on batters has anything to do with what happened in San Diego 2 years ago. I just think he's past his prime. He just can't locate his pitches, and can't throw a dominating fastball anymore. Glavine and Maddox did not have a 96mph fastball, but they could hit the corners.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:50 PM
Eh, I'm actually leaving, though I'll probably come back. Bats need to come alive. Wonder if there's a letdown going on the road. I would hope not with some of the guys we have who hopefully keep things in check in that area like Rolen and Cabrera.

There will be lulls at points. Hopefully they turn it around tonight, and if not, hopefully tomorrow. Hanson is a good bit better than Kawakami. Fortunately Leake has been a good bit better than Harang.

Our five toughest games for the rest of May were those 5 home games we just had. It's supposed to be easy street the rest of the month.

texasdave
05-19-2010, 09:50 PM
All the old Harang talking points coming out again, I see. This start hasn't even been that much of a disaster. The real story of this game is the offense sucking horribly, not Harang.

Yes four runs in five inning is great. LOL. What is that. a 1.80 WHIP. Sweet. A 7.20 ERA. All-star material. An 3.60 K/9. That is something to write home about. But you are right, for Aaron Harang that isn't much of a disaster.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:52 PM
Chapman's pitching tonight...by the way.

RedsFanInBama
05-19-2010, 09:52 PM
I don't think his straight as an arrow fastball and falling behind on batters has anything to do with what happened in San Diego 2 years ago. I just think he's past his prime. He just can't locate his pitches, and can't throw a dominating fastball anymore. Glavine and Maddox did not have a 96mph fastball, but they could hit the corners.

Maybe I should rephrase. Has Harang been worth a damn since that game in San Diego two years ago?

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:53 PM
Chapman's pitching tonight...by the way.

Got the shutout going...


http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2010_05_19_louaaa_lhvaaa_1&t=g_box&did=milb

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 09:54 PM
All the old Harang talking points coming out again, I see. This start hasn't even been that much of a disaster. The real story of this game is the offense sucking horribly, not Harang.

Yeah, but you really do wonder why they tend to go hand in hand, more often than not. Some of it is facing really good pitchers when Harang is out there. The rest of it is up for debate and the imagination.

Harang really doesn't seem to have plus stuff tonight, that's for sure, as he still came in averaging 8 K's per 9 IP and isn't collecting strikeouts or missing too many bats tonight.

Although he does get one of McLouth. But right now he's looking at maybe 3 K's in 6 innings.

Kawakami out of the game. Maybe the offense will come to life. He's thrown 79 pitches and they're taking him out????

RedsFanInBama
05-19-2010, 09:55 PM
Yeah, but you really do wonder why they tend to go hand in hand, more often than not. Some of it is facing really good pitchers when Harang is out there. The rest of it is up for debate and the imagination.

Harang really doesn't seem to have plus stuff tonight, that's for sure, as he still came in averaging 8 K's per 9 IP and isn't collecting strikeouts or missing too many bats tonight.

Although he does get one of McLouth. But right now he's looking at maybe 3 K's in 6 innings.

Kawakami out of the game. Maybe the offense will come to life. He's thrown 79 pitches and they're taking him out????

Bizarre, but maybe Cox is playing the odds of him sucking soon.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:55 PM
Got the shutout going...


http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?gid=2010_05_19_louaaa_lhvaaa_1&t=g_box&did=milb

Sorry...posted the wrong website....fixed it.

Redeye fly
05-19-2010, 09:55 PM
Ok, 4 K's in 6 innings for Harang. A bit better in that department. He finished well. Too bad he started horribly.

Need to do some work against the Braves pen.

George Foster
05-19-2010, 09:56 PM
Maybe I should rephrase. Has Harang been worth a damn since that game in San Diego two years ago?

To be quite honest....no. He went on the DL later that summer and finished horrible. He was horrible last year and went on the DL with his apendicitis (sp?)

I don't think him coming in after 2 days rest, and pitching 2 innings 2 years ago has anything to do with his "stuff" now.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:56 PM
This is the inning we score "some" runs.

Got the Hat on and I'm flipping it around.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:57 PM
Ok, 4 K's in 6 innings for Harang. A bit better in that department. He finished well. Too bad he started horribly.

Need to do some work against the Braves pen.

A Game Score of 43 is bad.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 09:58 PM
Let's Go REDS!!!

RedsFanInBama
05-19-2010, 09:58 PM
Stubbs has to know to take that 2-0 pitch. Down 4 in the 7th, take a strike. Went from a 3-0 count to a strikeout.

goreds2
05-19-2010, 09:59 PM
This is the inning we score "some" runs.

Got the Hat on and I'm flipping it around.

Yep, thank goodness the Braves starter is outta there and we are in the middle relief.

George Foster
05-19-2010, 09:59 PM
I'm I wrong or Does Stubbs strike out about 45% of the time?

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 10:01 PM
I'm I wrong or Does Stubbs strike out about 45% of the time?

28.7% going into tonight for 2010.

26.5% going into tonight for his career.

That's an awful lot.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 10:02 PM
good inning!!

Reds
05-19-2010, 10:02 PM
Chapman has gone 5 now, k'ing 3 while only walking 1.

George Foster
05-19-2010, 10:02 PM
28.7% going into tonight.

thanks...it just seems like half the time. 30% +- is still WAY to high for a major league hitter.

RedsFanInBama
05-19-2010, 10:03 PM
Harang set the tone for this one and then we blew our chances to score early.

George Foster
05-19-2010, 10:03 PM
Chapman has gone 5 now, k'ing 3 while only walking 1.

BRING
HIM
UP!

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 10:03 PM
I'm turning my hat around. I hate the "wannabe" look.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 10:04 PM
Chapman has gone 5 now, k'ing 3 while only walking 1.

Just walked the first batter of the 6th.

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 10:06 PM
Lighting-fast bottom of the 7th.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 10:07 PM
lets wake up!!

George Foster
05-19-2010, 10:07 PM
Time for a hit and a digger!

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 10:08 PM
Just walked the first batter of the 6th.

Has walked two in the 6th while only getting one out so far. Looks like he's about done here.

Reds
05-19-2010, 10:09 PM
at roughly 100 pitches i'd have to imagine

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 10:09 PM
at roughly 100 pitches i'd have to imagine

92


just got another strikout and now is at 96 pitches....trying to finish the 6th.

RedsFanInBama
05-19-2010, 10:10 PM
Cabrera - slowest leadoff in the Majors? And yes, I know Russell Martin leads off for LA.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 10:10 PM
Just not the REDS' day Offensively.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 10:11 PM
theres a double..here we go!

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 10:11 PM
Chapman's also picked two people off of 1st Base tonight.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 10:12 PM
Brandon Phillips!! Nice shot.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 10:12 PM
(Don't really want to say BP these days with the Gulf oil spill.)

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 10:13 PM
They took Chapman out after the strikeout, and 96 pitches.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 10:13 PM
looking for our 3 time being shutout this year

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 10:13 PM
mlb network just went live to the REDS' game.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 10:13 PM
(Don't really want to say BP these days with the Gulf oil spill.)

LMAO

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 10:14 PM
Too shallow of a hit for Brandon to go down by 4 runs.

redsfan_12
05-19-2010, 10:14 PM
Votto singles..lets go Scotty!!!

sabometrics
05-19-2010, 10:14 PM
Good call to hold Phillips there. Here's that man again ...

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 10:15 PM
Here's "Mr. Leader" up at the plate.

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 10:15 PM
Let's go Rolen!

Kingspoint
05-19-2010, 10:15 PM
I'll take a Wild Pitch here.

Reds
05-19-2010, 10:15 PM
corners 1 gone time for rolen to get clutch