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Redeye fly
05-20-2010, 05:20 PM
You do not have to bring in a guy with control problems and the most hittable mid 90s fastball this side of Todd Coffey into the game with the bases loaded and the tying run at the plate just because he's your "closer".

Arthur Rhodes is the best pitcher in your bullpen. In the future, should such a situation again arise, you might want to leave him in for more than one batter.

Thank you for your contributions to a devastating loss,

The Cincinnati Reds fans

Mr Larkin
05-20-2010, 05:23 PM
We are paying Corderro to be our closer. Dusty brought him in to close and a guy off the bench hits a game winning homer. This is not all on Dusty.

sivman17
05-20-2010, 05:24 PM
He brings in Owings to PH only cause he's from Atlanta. He had Rolen, Janish, and Heisey on the bench who have all been hitting great.

He leaves Lincoln in wayyy too long. Presumably so he could pick up a 3-inning save.

He brings in Masset who has to face the same guy that got a base hit off him last night and who eventually scored on Heyward's hit.

He brings in Rhodes, which was smart, but then takes him out after he threw a great 3-2 pitch to Heyward.

He leaves Rolen and Janish on the bench instead of putting them in to play defense.

DUSTY. I HATE YOU. I HATE YOU SO MUCH.

muddie
05-20-2010, 05:25 PM
We are paying Corderro to be our closer. Dusty brought him in to close and a guy off the bench hits a game winning homer. This is not all on Dusty.

The ball should have been caught. This is the major leagues.

winks
05-20-2010, 05:33 PM
the ball was at the top of the wall. Yeah it should have been caught by Heisey (a much more athletic player than nix with a bad back) but Heisey was on the pine.

Redeye fly
05-20-2010, 05:34 PM
We are paying Corderro to be our closer. Dusty brought him in to close and a guy off the bench hits a game winning homer. This is not all on Dusty.

We are indeed paying Cordero to close games.

We are also paying Dusty to realize who's going well and who's going poorly, and make decisions accordingly.

Rhodes has been lights out, and Cordero has been very poor of late, and he brought him into the worst possible situation. A manager has to realize that and do what's best for the team, no matter who's paid to do what or who he wants to give a little confidence boost.

sivman17
05-20-2010, 05:36 PM
I don't care how much money we are paying Cordero. Rhodes just struck out the best hitter on the team and the guy that won the game last night. Why take him out? He has been the best reliever on the team by a long shot. Let him finish the game.

Redeye fly
05-20-2010, 05:37 PM
By the way, if Dusty wanted to go lefty/lefty with Rhodes and Heyward, wasn't that left handed pinch hitter in the on deck circle before Cordero came in? I could be wrong on that, but I think he was.

Vottomatic
05-20-2010, 05:39 PM
the ball was at the top of the wall. Yeah it should have been caught by Heisey (a much more athletic player than nix with a bad back) but Heisey was on the pine.

Absolutely. When the game is slipping away, what does Dusty do? Nothing.

Moves that needed to be made:

1. Janish or Rolen to 3B.
2. If Rolen to 3B, then Janish to SS.
3. Heisey replace Nix for defense.
4. Lincoln should have been removed after he gave up 2 hits. Everyone knows that. When guy implodes.......he implodes. Why doesn't Dusty know this?
5. Should never have brought in Nick Masset and his near 7.00 e.r.a. to relieve Lincoln. Terrible.
6. Rhodes obviously had it and Cordero has been struggling big time lately. So Dusty lets Rhodes pitch to one batter then brings in the struggling guy. Stupid.

I was on the verge of buying some tickets and going down to see this team, but I just lost all confidence in Dusty........and in Mr. Castellini and Jocketty for putting up with this crap. Just plain sick of it.

I can watch stupidity from my couch instead of wasting my money.

texasdave
05-20-2010, 05:39 PM
We are indeed paying Cordero to close games.

We are also paying Dusty to realize who's going well and who's going poorly, and make decisions accordingly.

Rhodes has been lights out, and Cordero has been very poor of late, and he brought him into the worst possible situation. A manager has to realize that and do what's best for the team, no matter who's paid to do what or who he wants to give a little confidence boost.

We are also paying Paul Janish to be a late-inning defensive replacement, but Dusty seemed to ignore that. This is all on one Dusty Baker.

Redeye fly
05-20-2010, 05:43 PM
I don't care how much money we are paying Cordero. Rhodes just struck out the best hitter on the team and the guy that won the game last night. Why take him out? He has been the best reliever on the team by a long shot. Let him finish the game.

Rhodes should have at least had the opportunity to fail. Which I personally think Rhodes would have shut it down with us winning by one run anyway. Maybe not, but you at least give him a chance to sink or swim. The decision to remove your hottest pitcher and your only bullpen pitcher who's done the job all year, aside from one game that I can recall, to bring in one who's been extremely shaky, "closer" or not, just makes me sick.

Redeye fly
05-20-2010, 05:48 PM
We are also paying Paul Janish to be a late-inning defensive replacement, but Dusty seemed to ignore that. This is all on one Dusty Baker.

Agreed... and I actually have had little to no complaints or gripes with Dusty lately, even with today's funky lineup.

Today was just disgusting though.

Bobby Cox takes out Chipper Jones and Brian McCann? The Braves were conceding defeat, and someone forgot to tell Dusty, or wake him up from his nap.

Jack Burton
05-20-2010, 05:48 PM
Dear Dusty,

Go play in traffic.

Ænima
05-20-2010, 05:49 PM
It isn't all Dusty's fault but a large helping of the blame falls on him. The entire team, management included, got lazy after the eight run inning. How else do you explain/justify the errors in play and managerial judgment?

Terrible loss, but we can live with it - provided the team rallies and stomps Cleveland starting tomorrow. As long as it doesn't have a lasting negative impact on the roster, it isn't that traumatic.

mivers176
05-20-2010, 05:50 PM
I don't care how much money we are paying Cordero. Rhodes just struck out the best hitter on the team and the guy that won the game last night. Why take him out? He has been the best reliever on the team by a long shot. Let him finish the game.

A M E N

brachial pleXUs
05-20-2010, 05:50 PM
Terrible loss, but we can live with it - provided the team rallies and stomps Cleveland starting tomorrow. As long as it doesn't have a lasting negative impact on the roster, it isn't that traumatic.

That's what scares me. It always seems to be one big loss that shouldn't have happened that sends this team on a dramatic downward spiral.

FlyerFanatic
05-20-2010, 05:51 PM
That's what scares me. It always seems to be one big loss that shouldn't have happened that sends this team on a dramatic downward spiral.

i fully expect a sweep by the indians this weekend

1990REDS
05-20-2010, 05:54 PM
That's what scares me. It always seems to be one big loss that shouldn't have happened that sends this team on a dramatic downward spiral.

ya we have all seen this show before.

Ænima
05-20-2010, 05:55 PM
Man, people panic in a big hurry on this forum.

It's one game. Relax and see what happens.

Redeye fly
05-20-2010, 05:55 PM
It isn't all Dusty's fault but a large helping of the blame falls on him. The entire team, management included, got lazy after the eight run inning. How else do you explain/justify the errors in play and managerial judgment?

Terrible loss, but we can live with it - provided the team rallies and stomps Cleveland starting tomorrow. As long as it doesn't have a lasting negative impact on the roster, it isn't that traumatic.

Yeah, that's the key. Where does the team go from here? Do they lose all confidence and go to Cleveland with their tails between their legs? Or do they recover and play well?

If I'm Dusty Baker, I'm holding a closed door meeting, and I'm pointing the finger at myself as much as I am the players on the team, and I'm making sure we're in as good of a mindset as we can possibly be in going to Cleveland. There is no post game press conference or interview, just like after the San Diego game. It's a closed door talk with the team and an emphasis on what we do to make sure something like that never happens again.

RedLakerFan24
05-20-2010, 05:55 PM
I was really happy Leake was going to go 5-0 on the season, but not anymore, but whatever. Im not going to be happy until they get Cairo out of this team

Natty Redlocks
05-20-2010, 06:03 PM
Wow. I'm far from a Dusty fan, but wow. Games like these happen. The thing to do after a game like this is think of all those Braves fans who sat through that torturous second inning, stayed the whole game, and were rewarded with an amazing comeback by their team. God, I love baseball.

Go get 'em tomorrow.

Jack Burton
05-20-2010, 06:04 PM
If this was a different country, and the Reds played soccer...

1990REDS
05-20-2010, 06:05 PM
Man, people panic in a big hurry on this forum.

It's one game. Relax and see what happens.

I get what your sayin, but a decade of losing baseball gives reds fans a reason to panic after a 7 run bottom of the ninth. fool me once shame on you. fool me twice shame on me. fool me like 9 times in a row..............

Ænima
05-20-2010, 06:13 PM
I get what your sayin, but a decade of losing baseball gives reds fans a reason to panic after a 7 run bottom of the ninth. fool me once shame on you. fool me twice shame on me. fool me like 9 times in a row..............

True, but I've been watching the Reds my entire life... hell, I'm only 24. I didn't get to enjoy the 90 Championship. The entirety of my baseball life has been lockouts, failure and Danny Graves.

At the same time, I haven't seen a team like this in Cincinnati before. For all their faults they play with a lot of passion and fight. I believe in them, just as I hope they believe in themselves and one-another.

It is a long season. I hope I'm getting upset long into September... otherwise it means we're out of the running before we even get that far.

BurgervilleBuck
05-20-2010, 06:25 PM
5. Should never have brought in Nick Masset and his near 7.00 e.r.a. to relieve Lincoln. Terrible.
It was risky but the best way to solve it is to get him back out there. Unfortunately, he was the victim of Miguel Cairo's fielding.

Baker should've done a double switch when he brought Rhodes in, putting Rolen at third or Heisey in left. Then again, Baker should have left Rhodes in. The guy had just gotten out one of the hotter players in the Braves lineup. But Baker gambled and lost on that one. If Cordero was able to save the game, we'd be singing a slightly different tune.

What's really, really got me angry are the four errors on the day. Inexcusable. You wanna know why the Reds lost? It was because of those.

Redeye fly
05-20-2010, 06:26 PM
Wow. I'm far from a Dusty fan, but wow. Games like these happen. The thing to do after a game like this is think of all those Braves fans who sat through that torturous second inning, stayed the whole game, and were rewarded with an amazing comeback by their team. God, I love baseball.

Go get 'em tomorrow.


A reasonable response, but some different decisions by our skipper with the toothpick, and chances are we're going to Cleveland with a split and at least a half game lead over the Cardinals.

I still like the team provided they don't let this loss linger in their heads. But again, you've got to know how to use your players each and every game out there. You're not going to win every game, and you'll have some bad losses.

But this... I mean there's no excuse for this. This is one of your worst Dusty Baker nightmares come to life. I mean, I know that sounds like an exaggeration, and I know hindsight is always 20/20. But I don't know how else to say it. I think we've covered almost every possible "what should have happened".

Janish at 3B or SS
If Rolen is good to play defense, Rolen at 3B, with again Janish at SS

Heisey in LF

Lincoln in the dugout with a firm pat on the back for 2 good innings. If you want to give anyone a confidence boost, give Masset a chance to mow them down in the 9th with a 6 run lead. But Dusty wanted a "feel good" moment for Lincoln. But as I said, Lincoln to start the 9th wasn't even the worst thing, IMO.

You leave Rhodes in that ball game. You leave Rhodes in, and you've got your best defense on the field. If you're not going to score any more runs, than you play "prevent defense".

If I'm the Reds, I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed if I'm the players, I'm embarrassed if I'm Dusty Baker and the coaches. That was pitiful. You can't lose games like that as a first place team. Yeah, we may not be a first place team in the long run, but you can't do that. Games like that only happen if you allow them to happen. You've got to be better than that, from the manager on down. I know it's one game, but you have 9 straight losing seasons, and these are the type of games that possibly cause you to wonder if it's about to unravel again.

1990REDS
05-20-2010, 06:31 PM
this game was every bad thing ive ever seen written about dusty on this board all wrapped up into one afternoon.

Jack Burton
05-20-2010, 06:48 PM
this game was every bad thing ive ever seen written about dusty on this board all wrapped up into one afternoon.

Lol. Sad but true.

Redeye fly
05-20-2010, 06:50 PM
Not everything

Mike Leake didn't leave the game with his arm limply dangling at his side, ready to be taken directly for Tommy John surgery.

So there is that.:p:

malcontent
05-20-2010, 08:36 PM
Games like these happen.
To teams with managers asleep at the wheel.

5TimeWSChamps
05-20-2010, 09:15 PM
Let's not forget with 2 on in the 7th he pinch hits a PITCHER (I don't care what Owings numbers are when you have Rolen, Heisey, Hanigan all crushing the ball) just because he's from the area. What a joke.

Griffey012
05-21-2010, 12:30 AM
Absolutely. When the game is slipping away, what does Dusty do? Nothing.

Moves that needed to be made:

1. Janish or Rolen to 3B.
2. If Rolen to 3B, then Janish to SS.
3. Heisey replace Nix for defense.
4. Lincoln should have been removed after he gave up 2 hits. Everyone knows that. When guy implodes.......he implodes. Why doesn't Dusty know this?
5. Should never have brought in Nick Masset and his near 7.00 e.r.a. to relieve Lincoln. Terrible.
6. Rhodes obviously had it and Cordero has been struggling big time lately. So Dusty lets Rhodes pitch to one batter then brings in the struggling guy. Stupid.

I was on the verge of buying some tickets and going down to see this team, but I just lost all confidence in Dusty........and in Mr. Castellini and Jocketty for putting up with this crap. Just plain sick of it.

I can watch stupidity from my couch instead of wasting my money.

Suit yourself, I just saw 3 great games last weekend against STL, saw great baseball played all around, and the Reds take over first place. Best Reds games I have been to in my life.