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Seņor Rojo
05-20-2010, 06:28 PM
Managing aside, it is clear that this team will not get to the postseason unless the bullpen gets a shot in the arm. It's interesting because the pitching has seemed to have had a role reversal since last season, when starting pitching was shaky, but the bullpen was automatic. Now that we finally have a consistent rotation, the relief has blown its fair share of games. Rhodes is the only sure thing coming into the games late at this point and he's been used primarily for lefty-lefty match ups only.

What do you think about bringing up Chapman to get some energy in the bullpen? I believe he left last night's game with a blister, so we may not see him for awhile, but I would like to see him up here now. As a reliever, he wouldn't have to pitch for long stretches. Whatever happens, the bullpen needs something to boost its confidence.

SeeinRed
05-20-2010, 06:46 PM
I'd be willing to call up an arm if one was worthy and if it was to replace Fischer, but I don't see the point in having Chapman as a relief pitcher if they are looking at him starting long term. Its a popular thing to do amoung the message board and talk show crowd, but I'd rather see him extend his pitch counts in the minors and work on his breaking ball rather than put it on the shelf while he is in relief. Sure, he has two good enough pitches to throw relief innings, but I'd rather see him develop a good third pitch and work on command. Anything else seems rather short sighted to me.

The Reds aren't built to win it all this year and nothing should be traded away or given up with out prospects to change that. Playoffs are not out of the question, and I'm not agianst adding talent, but not at the cost of future developement.

Besides all that, I don't think a knee-jerk reaction is in order for the bullpen right now. Yesterday's game was not anything that won't happen from time to time in any bullpen and today's game was just as much about poor use and errors in the field as ineffective pitching. Two days ago, people were printing World Series tickets, now all of the sudden its the end of the world. There are still a boat load more games to play and the past two games will have little impact over the end result.

sabometrics
05-20-2010, 06:47 PM
Chapman is out of the question. Calling him up to relieve as a panic move is not going to do anyone any good. He needs to develop as a starter at AAA for a month or two more before we can even think about a call-up.

They also shouldn't be trading this early without trying out the other in-house options. Enerio Del Rosario is waiting in AAA to get his shot. Burton will be ready in a week or two and could contribute. Ondrusek could get another shot if he continues to pitch well after those options have been exhausted.

KySteveH
05-20-2010, 07:16 PM
Chapman is out of the question. Calling him up to relieve as a panic move is not going to do anyone any good. He needs to develop as a starter at AAA for a month or two more before we can even think about a call-up.

They also shouldn't be trading this early without trying out the other in-house options. Enerio Del Rosario is waiting in AAA to get his shot. Burton will be ready in a week or two and could contribute. Ondrusek could get another shot if he continues to pitch well after those options have been exhausted.

Agreed. Why would you rush a starting pitcher to the bigs because the bullpen blew a lead? The bullpen is fine, aside from the 7th slot, which I expect to be a revolving door with Fisher, Ondrusek, del Rosario, Burton, maybe others.

RedLakerFan24
05-20-2010, 07:24 PM
Release Linconln, Move Harang to the Bullpen, and bring up Moloney or Wood, guys relax, it's only 1 game, im sure Rolen and Cabrera will help the young players not let this loss affect them.

adampad
05-20-2010, 07:31 PM
I would love to see Volquez come back and become a dominant closer (in the same way Smoltz did). But of course any outside the box thinking is not something this organization does.

I just want to puke after the loss today. Sorry.

malcontent
05-20-2010, 08:06 PM
Release Linconln, Move Harang to the Bullpen, and bring up Moloney or Wood, guys relax, it's only 1 game, im sure Rolen and Cabrera will help the young players not let this loss affect them.
I like the Harang to bullpen move, with Maloney in the rotation.

Harang doesn't walk many, and can miss a bat or two (not sure how, though).

As a starter he's a liability. Limit his exposure, and he could be a serviceable reliever. And Maloney deserves an extended shot. He'd also give a different look being a LHP.

Of course, this all makes too much sense for the Reds to actually do.

Seņor Rojo
05-20-2010, 08:34 PM
I understand the reasoning for developing Chapman into a starter, but what happens if/when he is ready to be called up this season, assuming that the starting rotation performs as well as it has been lately? If this is the case, it would be time to send Harang packing in a trade of some sort. I think he could be broken in as a reliever like the Cardinals did with Adam Wainwright. I have flashbacks of Homer Bailey throwing ~30 pitches in the 1st inning of his major league debut. Chapman in the bullpen won't ruin his arm, but it might ruin his confidence if he gets touched up early.

Vottomatic
05-20-2010, 09:06 PM
I send someone down to send a message and bring up Rosario. I'd also research any possible reasonable trades that would bolster the bullpen.

I've lost faith in Masset, Herrera, and Cordero.

Lincoln is okay if you use him correctly. Never put him in to get out of a jam. He gets too rattled. Always take him out if and when he gives up 2 hits......because it's the beginning of him imploding.

Let Rhodes close a few games. You don't have to pamper Cordero. Let Cordero set up Rhodes. And bring him in with nobody on base.

brachial pleXUs
05-20-2010, 09:20 PM
Cordero is looking more and more like the guy who lost his job in Texas and less like the guy we've seen the last few years here and in Milwaukee.

winks
05-20-2010, 11:46 PM
I like the Harang to the pen idea but his psyche is bad already. I heard on the radio bdcst that burton is pitching again send Lincoln to lville and get burton up. It doesnt really matter though b/c Dusty wont use him right if at all.

nemesis
05-21-2010, 01:49 AM
Fisher down Del Rosario up...

Cairo DFA... Valakia up.

Heisey has provided a spark of the bench in the OF Valakia could do the same for the IF

Kingspoint
05-21-2010, 03:37 AM
Fisher down Del Rosario up...

Cairo DFA... Valakia up.

Heisey has provided a spark of the bench in the OF Valakia could do the same for the IF

Same, except I'd rather have Sutton moved up.

Vottomatic
05-21-2010, 09:30 AM
Same, except I'd rather have Sutton moved up.

I'd DFA Sutton at triple A. He sucks.

Bring up a young guy. They are always more than happy to be here and bring some enthusiasm. The only old guy we have with that kind of enthusiasm is Gomes.

mivers176
05-21-2010, 10:48 AM
My biggest issue with yesterday was not letting Rhodes pitch to more than Heyward - he struck out the Braves best hitter and the one that beat them the night before.

Cordero NEVER, well okay, very rarely, comes in and gets a 1-2-3 inning which is almost what was needed. He ALWAYS, well okay, almost always, gives up at least one hit and/or a walk or two. I dont have the stats to prove it but i bet thats the case on 99% of his saves.

Therefore, let Rhodes face the next hitter at least - just b/c it turned into a save situation doesnt mean we have to see Coco EVERY SINGLE TIME.

I think Dusty is all about the individual stats too much (like he always makes the comment 'we wanted to give the SP the chance to get the win, etc' - just win the freaking games Dusty

sivman17
05-21-2010, 11:08 AM
Therefore, let Rhodes face the next hitter at least - just b/c it turned into a save situation doesnt mean we have to see Coco EVERY SINGLE TIME.

I think Dusty is all about the individual stats too much (like he always makes the comment 'we wanted to give the SP the chance to get the win, etc' - just win the freaking games Dusty

Exactly. It's Dusty ball. He cares so much about being a "player's manager" that he makes decisions that benefit one player instead of the entire team.

There's no way he can justify putting Lincoln in for a third inning. I don't think he has ever gone three innings. And what's the point of keeping him in there? To get a save? Who cares if he gets a save? (Baker does, apparently)

The guys on Baseball Tonight even made a comment about how noticeably tired Lincoln was and he just started hanging breaking balls right over the plate.

The worst thing about is that Baker will never own up to it. He will never say "I should've done this, I should've done that." He's a punk. I hate him.

PlugALeake
05-22-2010, 05:04 PM
What about Jose Arredondo? Just a thought.....

sabometrics
05-22-2010, 06:09 PM
What about Jose Arredondo? Just a thought.....

Arredondo had Tommy John in January (?). His name isn't in the picture until next spring at the earliest.

PlugALeake
05-22-2010, 06:17 PM
Arredondo had Tommy John in January (?). His name isn't in the picture until next spring at the earliest.

Oh okay, I forgot all about that..