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RedsManRick
05-26-2010, 03:58 PM
Reds
Cabrera SS
Cairo 1B
Phillips 2B
Rolen 3B
Bruce RF
Nix LF
Stubbs CF
Hanigan C
Arroyo P

membengal
05-26-2010, 03:59 PM
Um. Hmmm.

Guess Joey needs a night off.

But it pains me in deep places in my soul that when he does get a night off, it's Cairo at 1b in his place.

That's like going from Scarlett Johannsen to Kathy Bates.

RedsManRick
05-26-2010, 03:59 PM
I don't know what to say about Cairo batting 2nd and Hanigan batting 8th. Dusty just loves him some fixed roles and catchers bat 8th. Can't Gomes play 1st?

RedsManRick
05-26-2010, 04:05 PM
Um. Hmmm.

Guess Joey needs a night off.

But it pains me in deep places in my soul that when he does get a night off, it's Cairo at 1b in his place.

That's like going from Scarlett Johannsen to Kathy Bates.

And batting him 2nd is like taking Kathy Bates to company's holiday party to show her off...

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 04:12 PM
I'm not a huge Ramon fan, but why not play him at first instead of Cairo? I mean seriously?

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 04:14 PM
Alright now I'm furious. Votto OWNS Ohlendorf. What are the chances that Dusty even looks at this stuff before filling out a card?



OPPOSING HITTER AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
Brandon Phil 9 1 0 0 0 2 0 2 0.111 0.111 0.111 0.222
Jay Bruce 8 2 1 0 0 0 0 1 0.25 0.25 0.375 0.625
Ramon Hern 7 1 0 0 0 0 1 2 0.143 0.25 0.143 0.393
Joey Votto 7 4 1 1 1 1 2 0 0.571 0.667 1.429 2.095
Orlando Cab 3 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 0.333 0.5 0.333 0.833
Scott Rolen 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0.5 0.5 1 1.5
Laynce Nix 2 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 0.5 0.5 1 1.5
Wladimir Bale 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
Drew Stubbs 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0.5 0 0.5
Ryan Hanigan 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 1 0 1
Paul Janish 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Totals 40 11 4 1 1 4 7 7 0.275 0.383 0.5 0.883

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 04:17 PM
Votto is 1 for 8 off of Morton (Thursday's probable starter). Why not wait until tomorrow to give him a day off?

Please use your brain Dusty.

bucksfan2
05-26-2010, 04:21 PM
Alright now I'm furious. Votto OWNS Ohlendorf. What are the chances that Dusty even looks at this stuff before filling out a card?

Can you "own" someone when you only have 7 at bats against a particular pitcher?

nate
05-26-2010, 04:21 PM
I'm not sure ownership is determined after 7 ABs.

RichRed
05-26-2010, 04:22 PM
Cairo went 2 for 4 with a walk in his last start in the 2-spot. Dustification.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 04:23 PM
Can you "own" someone when you only have 7 at bats against a particular pitcher?


I'm not sure ownership is determined after 7 ABs.

Would it make more sense to start him against a guy he is 4 for 7 off of or 1 for 8? (Morton, tomorrow's probably starter).

BRM
05-26-2010, 04:23 PM
Cairo went 2 for 4 with a walk in his last start in the 2-spot. Dustification.

There you go. Gotta stick with what worked.

bucksfan2
05-26-2010, 04:26 PM
Would it make more sense to start him against a guy he is 4 for 7 off of or 1 for 8? (Morton, tomorrow's probably starter).

Do those 7 AB's against one particular pitcher represent an overall hot streak or just a hot streak against a particular pitcher?

Do those poor 8 AB's against Morton represent Morton owning Votto? Or Morton facing Votto when he wasn't hitting well?

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 04:31 PM
Do those 7 AB's against one particular pitcher represent an overall hot streak or just a hot streak against a particular pitcher?

Do those poor 8 AB's against Morton represent Morton owning Votto? Or Morton facing Votto when he wasn't hitting well?

Is there any justification for sitting Votto today vs. tomorrow?

REDblooded
05-26-2010, 04:35 PM
Reds
Cabrera SS
0/4 2 k's, 1 gidp, 2 errors.
Phillips 2B
Rolen 3B
Bruce RF
Nix LF
Stubbs CF
Hanigan C
Arroyo P

Fixed that line-up card...

redsmetz
05-26-2010, 04:40 PM
Fixed that line-up card...

The last game he started, also with folks getting their shorts in a bunch, had Cairo going 2 for 4 plus a walk and an RBI. Better than his average would suggest, but he's not a sure out as you imply. Dusty told us guys were gong to get day's off.

nate
05-26-2010, 04:45 PM
Would it make more sense to start him against a guy he is 4 for 7 off of or 1 for 8? (Morton, tomorrow's probably starter).

It would make more sense to not decide based on tiny sample sizes.

I mean, which wins?

Votto is 3 for his last 7 - so he should start
Votto is 4 for 9 in the 9th inning - so he should be saved as a pinch hitter

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 04:50 PM
It would make more sense to not decide based on tiny sample sizes.

I mean, which wins?

Votto is 3 for his last 7 - so he should start
Votto is 4 for 9 in the 9th inning - so he should be saved as a pinch hitter

I'm not arguing that the sample size is sufficient. All I've said was, would it make more sense to start a guy against a guy he has had success against, or against a guy he hasn't? Aren't all hitter/pitcher matchups pretty much small sample size? Yet they are applied countless times over the year. I'm still yet to see a single reason why giving Votto today off instead of tomorrow is a good reason. And I've shown why I think you give Votto the day off tomorrow instead of today.

joshnky
05-26-2010, 04:53 PM
I'm still yet to see a single reason why giving Votto today off instead of tomorrow is a good reason. And I've shown why I think you give Votto the day off tomorrow instead of today.

Perhaps he is worn out and needs a day off today. He may have even asked to have today off.

HeatherC1212
05-26-2010, 04:54 PM
If Joey is going to get a day off, I'm kind of glad it falls on the one night during the week that I don't get to watch the games until the later innings. You can blame this one on me. I don't mind. :p:

nate
05-26-2010, 05:03 PM
I'm not arguing that the sample size is sufficient. All I've said was, would it make more sense to start a guy against a guy he has had success against, or against a guy he hasn't?

The number don't indicate anything other than "that happened." They don't say that Votto hits either of them better.

If Votto played today and tomorrow, he could end up 4-12 vs. the first guy and 5-13 versus the other guy. The numbers will have told us nothing about his ability to hit either one.


Aren't all hitter/pitcher matchups pretty much small sample size?


For young players especially.


Yet they are applied countless times over the year.


By sportscasters who have to drone on about them and other pointless stats.


I'm still yet to see a single reason why giving Votto today off instead of tomorrow is a good reason. And I've shown why I think you give Votto the day off tomorrow instead of today.

It's not a good reason because it doesn't indicate any sort of advantage. It simply tells us what happened, not a special hitting ability above and beyond what he normally has. One could say (I would never say such a thing but) "he's due" vs. the guy he's not had success about.

nate
05-26-2010, 05:03 PM
The last game he started, also with folks getting their shorts in a bunch, had Cairo going 2 for 4 plus a walk and an RBI. Better than his average would suggest, but he's not a sure out as you imply. Dusty told us guys were gong to get day's off.

No one's a sure out but because Cairo (or Dusty, or Walt) rolled "snake eyes" twice in one day doesn't mean it wasn't a bad decision. He's bad to have on the roster, in the lineup AND batting 2nd. He could go 4-5 tonight and turn an unassisted triple play and that would still be the case.

It's not about fortunate results, it's about who's most likely to help you win.

bucksfan2
05-26-2010, 05:21 PM
No one's a sure out but because Cairo (or Dusty, or Walt) rolled "snake eyes" twice in one day doesn't mean it wasn't a bad decision. He's bad to have on the roster, in the lineup AND batting 2nd. He could go 4-5 tonight and turn an unassisted triple play and that would still be the case.

It's not about fortunate results, it's about who's most likely to help you win.

The game is all about fortunate or unfortunate results depending on which side you are rooting for.

Lets say Cairo goes 1-3 with a BB today. Is that good fortune? Or does that show that Cairo possess the skill to play every 7-10 days without picking up the normal rust that another player would?

RedsManRick
05-26-2010, 05:23 PM
Would it make more sense to start him against a guy he is 4 for 7 off of or 1 for 8? (Morton, tomorrow's probably starter).

Neither means anything. Other factors matter more. That doesn't mean today was the right day, but 2 games worth of data tells us literally nothing.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 05:26 PM
Votto out with a stiff neck. I will stop banging my head against a wall.

kbrake
05-26-2010, 05:30 PM
Miguel Cairo going 2 for 4 last Thursday has had a worse lingering effect on this team than blowing a 6 run lead in the 9th.

nate
05-26-2010, 05:32 PM
The game is all about fortunate or unfortunate results depending on which side you are rooting for.

Lets say Cairo goes 1-3 with a BB today. Is that good fortune? Or does that show that Cairo possess the skill to play every 7-10 days without picking up the normal rust that another player would?

The former.

Tom Servo
05-26-2010, 05:33 PM
I would love for the Reds to get a legit utility guy, preferibly a righty, who can play 1st. I know Votto's our superstar but you need to have a backup plan and guys like Cairo and Hernandez (who I do like, but not as a 1B) don't cut it.

SMcGavin
05-26-2010, 05:35 PM
If Votto needs a day off then so be it, but batting Cairo 2nd is insanity.

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 06:01 PM
Is there any justification for sitting Votto today vs. tomorrow?

Actually, yes. Votto has a stiff neck and needed a day off.

Per Fay

Joey Votto is out the lineup with a stiff neck, and Arthur Rhodes is unavailable with a sore foot.
Dusty Baker hopes to have both available tomorrow.
You know Joey Votto wants to play, Baker said. But if you cant go, you cant go.
Baker says theyre still undecided on Fridays starter.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 06:03 PM
Actually, yes. Votto has a stiff neck and needed a day off.

Per Fay


Votto out with a stiff neck. I will stop banging my head against a wall.

Gotcha bro :cool:

Cedric
05-26-2010, 07:57 PM
I would rather have Leake playing and batting 2nd than Cairo.

Degenerate39
05-26-2010, 08:12 PM
Chat is open!

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:13 PM
Arroyo walks Iwamura.

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 08:14 PM
Bronson is having trouble locating in the first. Walks the first batter. Behind the second

RedsMan3203
05-26-2010, 08:15 PM
Arroyo not looking sharp tonight

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:17 PM
1-6-3 DP on a nice play by BA.

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 08:18 PM
Ball hit hard. But nice play by Bronson

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:18 PM
6-3 ends the inning.

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 08:18 PM
The looked like a Reds offensive inning from the last few years.

Degenerate39
05-26-2010, 08:22 PM
Bunt here with Cairo

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:22 PM
Walk to Cabrera.

Cairo DP here? RZ crash?

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 08:23 PM
OC draws then leadoff walk

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:23 PM
K's on 3 pitches. What an asset.

Hoosier Red
05-26-2010, 08:24 PM
K's on 3 pitches. What an asset.

better than a double play:)

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 08:25 PM
Ollendorf has thrown only one strike so far.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:26 PM
If he throws BP inside here it will be a DP.

Ball 4.

WVRedsFan
05-26-2010, 08:26 PM
Does Cairo have pictures of Walt? Dusty? Marty? I don't get it.

Degenerate39
05-26-2010, 08:27 PM
Does Cairo have pictures of Walt? Dusty? Marty? I don't get it.

Dating Dusty's daughter

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:28 PM
Double steal with no throw. Ohlendorf can't throw strikes.

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 08:28 PM
Gotta capitalize on this wildness

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:30 PM
Rolen pops out. That's a bad at bat right there. Expected better from Rolen.

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 08:30 PM
That sucked.

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 08:31 PM
If the Reds don't score here, it's going to be a long night.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:31 PM
I swear every ump calls that pitch thats 6 inches outside a strike on Bruce.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:32 PM
Bruce K's on a pitch in the dirt. This may be a long night. That was awful hitting.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:32 PM
Anyone following on gameday? Honestly, how many pitches were in the zone that inning? 4?

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:35 PM
Jones grounds out. 1 down.

MississippiRed
05-26-2010, 08:36 PM
Anyone following on gameday? Honestly, how many pitches were in the zone that inning? 4?

Stuck here in the Omaha airport, I can't get Gameday. Is it working?

Reds/Flyers Fan
05-26-2010, 08:37 PM
Bruce has got to produce in those situations. Getting nothing out of second and third with 1 out is a great way to lose another 1-run game.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:38 PM
Bruce has got to produce in those situations. Getting nothing out of second and third with 1 out is a great way to lose another 1-run game.

It was Rolen that failed to produce there.

VR
05-26-2010, 08:39 PM
Stuck here in the Omaha airport, I can't get Gameday. Is it working?

stop by the kiosk to get some Omaha Steaks. Expensive, but you won't regret it.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:40 PM
Stuck here in the Omaha airport, I can't get Gameday. Is it working?

I'm watching live, but can't see the actual pitch tracker.

MississippiRed
05-26-2010, 08:40 PM
stop by the kiosk to get some Omaha Steaks. Expensive, but you won't regret it.

Had the OS hamburger at the Omaha Royals game last night. Very good. Maybe I'm about to board the plane, finally.

VR
05-26-2010, 08:41 PM
quick 2nd...how many pitches was that?

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:41 PM
PLEASE TAKE

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:43 PM
Stubbs singles to left on an inside fastball. Nice to see him turn on that pitch. He's struggled with it.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:46 PM
Wild throw on a pick and Stubbs goes to 2nd.

*Stubbs effect*

VR
05-26-2010, 08:46 PM
Wild throw on a pick and Stubbs goes to 2nd.

*Stubbs effect*

Now steal 3rd

kaldaniels
05-26-2010, 08:47 PM
I think Arroyo has the highest pitching IQ of any Reds pitcher over the past 20 years.

VR
05-26-2010, 08:48 PM
I think Arroyo has the highest pitching IQ of any Reds pitcher over the past 20 years.

until Mike Leake

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:48 PM
Ohlendorf is terrible.

Ball 4 to Hanigan.

kaldaniels
05-26-2010, 08:49 PM
until Mike Leake

You got a point...time will tell.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:49 PM
Arroyo bunt single! Bases loaded for OC!

TheBurn
05-26-2010, 08:49 PM
That was a great bunt by BA

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:50 PM
Just take til you get a strike OC.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:50 PM
What do I know? Sac fly by the professional OC.

TheBurn
05-26-2010, 08:51 PM
OC gets the job done...

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:51 PM
Cairo singles but Hanigan gunned down at the plate.

Yes I blame Cairo for hitting it too hard.

nate
05-26-2010, 08:53 PM
Thom said, "with two outs, why not."

I can think of a reason "why not."

Anyone else?

:cool:

Screwball
05-26-2010, 08:55 PM
Awful decision by Berry to send him there. Ball was smoked, fielder playing in, Hanigan running, Ohlendorf sruggling mightily, and the heart of the order was coming up.

Twice now they've let Ohlendorf off the hook.

guttle11
05-26-2010, 08:55 PM
Thom said, "with two outs, why not."

I can think of a reason "why not."

Anyone else?

:cool:

Phillips, a fastball murderer, on deck in a pure fastball spot?

Hanigan is really slow?

Berry just doesn't have a good sense of when to push the issue and when to hold. It's amazing to me that he's still with the Reds.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:57 PM
Eh.... Let's see here. BP avoids outs at a career .304 rate against RHP. Would you say that Hanigan had a greater than 30.4% chance of scoring there? I would say yes. Some may disagree.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 08:58 PM
Cedeno made an out! 2 down...

kaldaniels
05-26-2010, 08:59 PM
0 over the minimum for BA

VR
05-26-2010, 09:01 PM
striking out the side = cool

nate
05-26-2010, 09:02 PM
Eh.... Let's see here. BP avoids outs at a career .304 rate against RHP. Would you say that Hanigan had a greater than 30.4% chance of scoring there? I would say yes. Some may disagree.

I dunno, he was out by ten feet.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:05 PM
BP grounds out deep in the hole to 3rd.

His lack of speed continues to leave me scratching my head.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:05 PM
Rolen with 2 bad AB's tonight. 2 down.

VR
05-26-2010, 09:06 PM
Rolen with 2 bad AB's tonight. 2 down.

He's had a few of those lately. As a guy with a bad back...he looks like a guy with a bad back swinging up there lately.

guttle11
05-26-2010, 09:07 PM
I dunno, he was out by ten feet.

Exactly. And no, I don't think Hanigan had a 30% chance of scoring. Jones would have had to throw a noodle or missed the plate by 10 feet to his left. For a big league OFer, that was as easy as it gets throwing to home.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:07 PM
I dunno, he was out by ten feet.

Eh. If that throw is up the line about 2 feet further, I think he's safe.

Personally, I'd take the chance on Garret Jones gunning him down.

kaldaniels
05-26-2010, 09:07 PM
He's had a few of those lately. As a guy with a bad back...he looks like a guy with a bad back swinging up there lately.

Wait a tick...have you seen has stats over the past 10 games...very impressive.

kaldaniels
05-26-2010, 09:08 PM
Eh. If that throw is up the line about 2 feet further, I think he's safe.

Personally, I'd take the chance on Garret Jones gunning him down.

Exactly...it was a nice tag by Doumit. Put me in the "why not" camp.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:08 PM
Reds look terrible at the plate today. Ohlendorf is awful yet the Reds are getting themselves out.

WVRedsFan
05-26-2010, 09:08 PM
Bruce simply looks clueless at the place 80% of the time. Wow...

Screwball
05-26-2010, 09:10 PM
Reds look terrible at the plate today. Ohlendorf is awful yet the Reds are getting themselves out.

Yep. Very frustrating.

Jay Bruce has no business looking that bad against Ross freakin' Ohlendorf.

VR
05-26-2010, 09:11 PM
Wait a tick...have you seen has stats over the past 10 games...very impressive.


He's 0 for his last 10...and all ten of them looked like the last at bat.


No complaints here.....just remarking that he's looking 'tight' up there.

kaldaniels
05-26-2010, 09:13 PM
He's 0 for his last 10...and all ten of them looked like the last at bat.


No complaints here.....just remarking that he's looking 'tight' up there.

Fair enough.

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 09:13 PM
Arroyo not looking sharp tonight

Still feel that way?

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:13 PM
Bruce simply looks clueless at the place 80% of the time. Wow...

Yet he somehow reaches base almost 40% of the time. Amazing how that math works.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:15 PM
First pitch fly out for Nix. This is honestly amazing.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:17 PM
Stubbs infield single, thrown away, he gets to second.

*Stubbs effect*

oneupper
05-26-2010, 09:18 PM
Walker had to eat that. Silly.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:18 PM
I'd swipe 3rd here.

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 09:18 PM
Stubbs has got SOME KIND of wheels!

Up to .224 now.

oneupper
05-26-2010, 09:19 PM
I'd swipe 3rd here.

Yep. Would have done it in the second, too.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:19 PM
I would have waited until he threw the pitch though.

Stubbs picked.

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 09:19 PM
I'd swipe 3rd here.

You're fired! :p:

oneupper
05-26-2010, 09:19 PM
Looked balk-ish from here.

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 09:20 PM
Crud. Would've plated Stubbs easily.

Kc61
05-26-2010, 09:21 PM
Reds should have about five already this game. Frustrating.

oneupper
05-26-2010, 09:21 PM
Crud. Would've plated Stubbs easily.

He doesn't get that pitch with a man on second. They'd pitch around with Arroyo coming up.

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 09:22 PM
He doesn't get that pitch with a man on second. They'd pitch around with Arroyo coming up.

Fair point. But we were looking at things in hindsight...didn't you know you can arrange things however you want to make your point in hindsight? :p: The magical land of "Hindsight"...where unicorns roam free and Junior Griffey never ages or gets injured.

Screwball
05-26-2010, 09:26 PM
Reds should have about five already this game. Frustrating.

Yeah, I can stomach a tough lefty out there on top of his game and shutting things down like Maholm did, but only scoring 1 through 4 against a miserable Ross Ohlendorf due to bonehead approaches and decisions makes me wanna :bang: until the cows come home.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:27 PM
Jones singles in front of Bruce on a pitch in the dirt. Bruce was playing deep.

pedro
05-26-2010, 09:27 PM
Looked balk-ish from here.

I don't understand how that wasn't a balk. He turned around with his left foot in the air. How exactly did he step off the rubber?

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 09:27 PM
Bronson's no-no is gone.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:27 PM
Wow where did that first pitch to Doumit miss?

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 09:29 PM
Jones called out for running out of the baseline. Doumit out at first.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:29 PM
FC to Cabrera. Jones called out for leaving the basepath. Nice play by OC.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:35 PM
Double for Clement. 2nd and 3rd with 2 down.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:35 PM
IBB to Cedeno to get to Ohlendorf.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:36 PM
F-1. 1-0 reds after 4.5.

reds44
05-26-2010, 09:37 PM
I don't understand how that wasn't a balk. He turned around with his left foot in the air. How exactly did he step off the rubber?
He never went towards the plate. All he did was lift his leg and turn.

Degenerate39
05-26-2010, 09:37 PM
What's the pitch counts?

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:37 PM
He never went towards the plate. All he did was lift his leg and turn.

Was wondering where you were :beerme:

Recovering from last night?

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 09:38 PM
77 for Arroyo
64 for Ohlendorf

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:38 PM
What's the pitch counts?

BA-77
Ohlendorf-64 (just 36 strikes)

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:39 PM
FIRST PITCH fly out to right.

This is 2009 Reds.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:40 PM
Cairo HR.

I give up on baseball. I just don't understand it :)

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 09:40 PM
LOL! :jump: Cairo!?! hehe.

What a shot. Right to the deepest part of the shallowest part of the ballpark. *grin*

reds44
05-26-2010, 09:40 PM
Was wondering where you were :beerme:

Recovering from last night?
Needed food. Chipotle took care of that.

Cairo, that bum.

mbgrayson
05-26-2010, 09:41 PM
Cairo is SO inferior to Joey. His HR barely cleared the wall...

Matt700wlw
05-26-2010, 09:41 PM
That didn't just happen

:jump:

edabbs44
05-26-2010, 09:41 PM
Miguel...well done.

RedsManRick
05-26-2010, 09:41 PM
Go figure. Cairo just Castro'd us. Poor decision; good outcome.

mbgrayson
05-26-2010, 09:42 PM
That will likely keep Cairo with us an extra month or two...

alloverjr
05-26-2010, 09:42 PM
I smell a 1st base platoon

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:42 PM
Phillips walks. THANK YOU.

reds44
05-26-2010, 09:42 PM
I smell a 1st base platoon
Bring back Young Body.

mth123
05-26-2010, 09:43 PM
I smell a 1st base platoon

Votto getting Wally Pipped;)

reds44
05-26-2010, 09:43 PM
God this lineup just looks so much different without Votto in it.

Tommyjohn25
05-26-2010, 09:44 PM
I just wanted to pop in and say I just voted Miguel Cairo 25 times on the all-star ballot.

reds44
05-26-2010, 09:44 PM
87 pitches for Bronson means you are, at most, getting 7 out of him.
No Rhodes available.

Do you run Masset out there, or give Henry a chance?

Degenerate39
05-26-2010, 09:45 PM
I just wanted to pop in and say I just voted Miguel Cairo 25 times on the all-star ballot.

That would explain 25 out of his 26 votes

pedro
05-26-2010, 09:45 PM
Chalk that up to "if Miguel Cairo was your buddy he'd probably be the best baseball player you ever knew personally"

He's just not all that great compared to the other 500 or so position players drawing pay checks at any given time.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:45 PM
Rolen flies out to the wall in left. Drats.

WebScorpion
05-26-2010, 09:46 PM
Cairo HR.

I give up on baseball. I just don't understand it :)

Dusty is a rare baseball genius!! :D

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:46 PM
87 pitches for Bronson means you are, at most, getting 7 out of him.
No Rhodes available.

Do you run Masset out there, or give Henry a chance?

77 for BA.

reds44
05-26-2010, 09:46 PM
Will Bruce:
A. strikeout
B. ground out
C. fly out
D. reach base

reds44
05-26-2010, 09:47 PM
77 for BA.
Oh, nice. Probably still only getting 7 from him though.

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 09:47 PM
87 pitches for Bronson means you are, at most, getting 7 out of him.
No Rhodes available.

Do you run Masset out there, or give Henry a chance?

Who's Henry?

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:47 PM
Phillips steal and takes 3rd on the wild throw. If the Pirates shift I'd squeeze him in here.

Kc61
05-26-2010, 09:47 PM
Will Bruce:
A. strikeout
B. ground out
C. fly out
D. reach base

Usually it's C. let's hope for D.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:47 PM
Will Bruce:
A. strikeout
B. ground out
C. fly out
D. reach base

I'll say round the bases.

reds44
05-26-2010, 09:48 PM
Who's Henry?

Del Rosario

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:48 PM
BB to Bruce.

mbgrayson
05-26-2010, 09:48 PM
Jay Bruce:

E. BB

mth123
05-26-2010, 09:48 PM
Who's Henry?

Henry of the Rosary - Enerio Del Rosario

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 09:49 PM
Del Rosario

Ummm...okay. Why "henry"?

reds44
05-26-2010, 09:49 PM
Ummm...okay. Why "henry"?
His first name in English is Henry lol

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:49 PM
Patience here Laynce.

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 09:50 PM
Henry of the Rosary - Enerio Del Rosario

That's what his name means in english? Gotcha.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 09:50 PM
Unfreakin real. FIRST PITCH FLY OUT.

reds44
05-26-2010, 09:50 PM
Patience here Laynce.
Whoops.

WVRedsFan
05-26-2010, 09:50 PM
Patience here Laynce.No chance. Ever. Just stupid.

mbgrayson
05-26-2010, 09:50 PM
Patience here Laynce.

Well, he did wait till the first pitch got to the plate.....

WVRedsFan
05-26-2010, 09:51 PM
Is it just me or does Nix go for a HR on every pitch? Sure looks that way.

reds44
05-26-2010, 09:52 PM
Is it just me or does Nix go for a HR on every pitch? Sure looks that way.
Both of our LFers are that way.

reds44
05-26-2010, 09:53 PM
It took OC four days to get to that ball.

guttle11
05-26-2010, 09:54 PM
Is it just me or does Nix go for a HR on every pitch? Sure looks that way.

It's really all he's got. He's not that good of a hitter. He just swings hard and hopes.

Kc61
05-26-2010, 09:58 PM
DP.

Arroyo's best talent is his ability to work out of trouble. He's very adept at pitching with men on base in tough spots.

Now maybe the Reds can get a couple more runs and open this one up.

kaldaniels
05-26-2010, 09:59 PM
Don't get me wrong...but sometimes BP just looks so cool out there.

edabbs44
05-26-2010, 10:03 PM
OC..good ballplayer. 3-0 Reds.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 10:03 PM
Does anyone still really want Janish as the shortstop?

Kc61
05-26-2010, 10:04 PM
OCab knocks in Hanigan. Three zip.

edabbs44
05-26-2010, 10:04 PM
Does anyone still really want Janish as the shortstop?

He would have hit that ball, made the play in CF, pegged Hanigan out at home and potentially thrown himself out at 2nd.

Matt700wlw
05-26-2010, 10:06 PM
He would have hit that ball, made the play in CF, pegged Hanigan out at home and potentially thrown himself out at 2nd.

He's ot Chris Denorfia

CTA513
05-26-2010, 10:08 PM
Does anyone still really want Janish as the shortstop?

I'm sure Janish does.

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 10:11 PM
Brandon is not too shabby defensively. :O)

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 10:12 PM
I'm sure Janish does.

LOL

mbgrayson
05-26-2010, 10:13 PM
Phillips times his jump on that liner perfectly, and he got it in the tip of his glove.

7 pitch inning for Arroyo. Nice.

Reds up 3-0 midway through the 7th.

Brutus
05-26-2010, 10:13 PM
To be perfectly honest, yes, actually.

Cabrera has a .700 OPS with a .321 OBP and well below average range.

While I'm not convinced Janish would have a 700 OPS, I still fully believe he would more than make up for it with the glove.

Puffy
05-26-2010, 10:15 PM
To be perfectly honest, yes, actually.

Cabrera has a .700 OPS with a .321 OBP and well below average range.

While I'm not convinced Janish would have a 700 OPS, I still fully believe he would more than make up for it with the glove.

Really? Do you watch the games? Do you see the baserunning - the always taking extra base, the 7 for 7 steals because he knows when to go even with average speed, the times he has almost walked to third because pitcher doesn't pay attention (which would be 2 extra times just that I've see if batter hadn't fouled pitch off), the conscientious effort to hit fly balls with runners on third and less than two outs.

There is a reason wherever he goes the team wins.

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 10:17 PM
Thom said, "with two outs, why not."

I can think of a reason "why not."

Anyone else?

:cool:

general rule is send him with two out, almost no matter what. Stats show he scores far more often then waiting for someone to drive him in.

Throwing a guy out at the plate is a really tough play to execute. Everything has to go right, good throw, catcher catching the ball, making a good tag. Things go wrong more often than you think. Just think of how many times it's not even close, with the throw way high or up the line, or the catcher dropping the ball, or missing tag...

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 10:21 PM
Central Updates:

Houston up 4-0 on the Brewers in the 4th
Cubs down 5-2 to the Dodgers in the 3rd
Cards & Pads just getting underway

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 10:21 PM
To be perfectly honest, yes, actually.

Cabrera has a .700 OPS with a .321 OBP and well below average range.

While I'm not convinced Janish would have a 700 OPS, I still fully believe he would more than make up for it with the glove.

I agree. It's not like Janish is having a terrible season at the plate. .276 .382 .483 .865

He's not going to keep that up, obviously, but I think he has shown that he can hit close to .279 .317 .378 .695, which is Cabrera's line going into tonight.

And his defense is miles better.

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 10:22 PM
Really? Do you watch the games? Do you see the baserunning - the always taking extra base, the 7 for 7 steals because he knows when to go even with average speed, the times he has almost walked to third because pitcher doesn't pay attention (which would be 2 extra times just that I've see if batter hadn't fouled pitch off), the conscientious effort to hit fly balls with runners on third and less than two outs.

There is a reason wherever he goes the team wins.

There's nothing on that list that Janish doesn't do just as well. Janish is a very smart ballplayer too. It's not like he's Ryan Freel.

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 10:22 PM
Stubbs having a really nice night at the dish. 2 for 3 with a walk now. Hanigan up...he's got on every time.

redsmetz
05-26-2010, 10:23 PM
Stubbs having a really nice night at the dish. 2 for 3 with a walk now. Hanigan up...he's got on every time.

With the sacks jammed, lets do it again - alas, not to be, he grounds out leaving them full.

Degenerate39
05-26-2010, 10:23 PM
Stubbs having a really nice night at the dish. 2 for 3 with a walk now. Hanigan up...he's got on every time.

Not this time

reds44
05-26-2010, 10:23 PM
I'm sure Janish does.
Post of the thread right here lol

Degenerate39
05-26-2010, 10:23 PM
With the sacks jammed, lets do it again

That just sounds painful.

reds44
05-26-2010, 10:25 PM
That just sounds painful.

YouTube - History Will Be Made - Sami Salo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pZoYw3kcKo)

WVRedsFan
05-26-2010, 10:25 PM
These lost opportunities may haunt the next two innings. I hope not, but our, eh, bullpen has not been what you call "lights out."

Sea Ray
05-26-2010, 10:25 PM
What's up with all these first pitch swings with runners on?

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 10:26 PM
I agree. It's not like Janish is having a terrible season at the plate. .276 .382 .483 .865

He's not going to keep that up, obviously, but I think he has shown that he can hit close to .279 .317 .378 .695, which is Cabrera's line going into tonight.

And his defense is miles better.

The way I look at it, Cabrera's play has improved considerably since the first month or so. But he's NOT an above average SS. At the plate or with the leather. But, that being said, he's not been horrible by any stretch of the imagination. I'd just like to see it handled in a similar way that the catching situation is being handled. Janish can be Leake's primary shortstop and can work another game a week at either short or third or second. AND he should be added as a defensive replacement in QUITE a few games. Right now, he's being put to sleep.

Degenerate39
05-26-2010, 10:26 PM
YouTube - History Will Be Made - Sami Salo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pZoYw3kcKo)

Let's not do that again then

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 10:27 PM
I'm honestly amazed that anyone who watches the games would still argue for Cabrera. His D is not nearly as bad as this board makes it out to be, and he has been very good for this offense. OPS is not the only important stat on offense. The guy drives in runs, hits for average (especially since moving to leadoff). Add in the leadership and clubhouse presence he brings.

reds44
05-26-2010, 10:28 PM
I'm honestly amazed that anyone who watches the games would still argue for Cabrera. His D is not nearly as bad as this board makes it out to be, and he has been very good for this offense. OPS is not the only important stat on offense. The guy drives in runs, hits for average (especially since moving to leadoff). Add in the leadership and clubhouse presence he brings.
Espeically with things like range, I think people had a preconcieved though on Cabrera and it's just carried through.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 10:28 PM
Cedeno again. I don't believe it. I just don't.

mbgrayson
05-26-2010, 10:29 PM
Cedeno......[as in Seinfeld: "Newman!']

RedsMan3203
05-26-2010, 10:29 PM
Masset and DRH up in the pen....... ;)

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 10:29 PM
I'm honestly amazed that anyone who watches the games would still argue for Cabrera. His D is not nearly as bad as this board makes it out to be, and he has been very good for this offense. OPS is not the only important stat on offense. The guy drives in runs, hits for average (especially since moving to leadoff). Add in the leadership and clubhouse presence he brings.

Just to be clear, I'm not arguing FOR Janish. I'm arguing for some time off for Cabrera, a 35 year old shortstop with very limited lateral movement. And I'm arguing for Janish to be used as he's meant to be used on this roster. As a defensive replacement regularly.

pedro
05-26-2010, 10:30 PM
There's nothing on that list that Janish doesn't do just as well. Janish is a very smart ballplayer too. It's not like he's Ryan Freel.

Janiah has a lifetime .605 ops and no minor league track record to prove he can do better. As for the other stuff, maybe Janish does do that stuff too but I sure never saw it during his extended tryout last year.

Dude can pick it though. I'll give you that.

reds44
05-26-2010, 10:32 PM
Not Masset. Please no.

Kc61
05-26-2010, 10:33 PM
My take is that until they acquire that big hitter to go with Votto, the Reds can't afford a .600 OPS in the lineup. Pitcher excluded obviously.

Janish is a good backup but the team needs a .700 OPS shortstop, at least. Cabrera basically fits the bill and brings intangibles as well.

kaldaniels
05-26-2010, 10:34 PM
Let Arroyo (go for the shutout) finish. He can handle it.

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 10:36 PM
Let Arroyo (go for the shutout) finish. He can handle it.

115 pitches? No, I think you pull him pretty soon. You might let him finish THIS inning, but not next.

Kc61
05-26-2010, 10:36 PM
Arroyo out. Wonderful outing tonight.

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 10:36 PM
Dusty took the decision out of our hands. :O)

Great outing by Bronson. :clap:

Herrera in.

RedsMan3203
05-26-2010, 10:37 PM
Yet another beautiful outing for Arroyo.... Willy WHO?

Its gonna be a tough bill to swallow knowing he probably will NOT be here next year

reds44
05-26-2010, 10:37 PM
Sheldon tweeted that Masset came in and was booed lol.

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 10:37 PM
Janiah has a lifetime .605 ops and no minor league track record to prove he can do better. As for the other stuff, maybe Janish does do that stuff too but I sure never saw it during his extended tryout last year.

Dude can pick it though. I'll give you that.

Janish's career minor league numbers. These do not translate into a .605 OPS in the majors:

.261 .351 .382 .733

They don't translate into .800 OPS in the majors, but they certainly say that he can come very close to .700 OPS, which is what Cabrera gives you, when he is on a hot streak.

And the reason why he made it to the majors was because he was doing all those little things right in the minors. The Reds loved his baseball IQ.

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 10:38 PM
Yet another beautiful outing for Arroyo.... Willy WHO?

Its gonna be a tough bill to swallow knowing he probably will NOT be here next year

I wouldn't be on that. They won't pick up his option, but I don't think they will just say good bye either.

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 10:38 PM
Oh, they said Herrera on WLW at first. Masset apparently.

reds44
05-26-2010, 10:38 PM
You have to get one out, Nick.

Just one.

Kc61
05-26-2010, 10:38 PM
Sheldon tweeted that Masset came in and was booed lol.

Nick will get the out here. I think.

mbgrayson
05-26-2010, 10:38 PM
Arroyo done at 113 pitches after a 9 pitch AB to Iwamura.

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 10:39 PM
Let's hope Masset isn't "unlucky". ;)

kaldaniels
05-26-2010, 10:39 PM
Yet another beautiful outing for Arroyo.... Willy WHO?

Its gonna be a tough bill to swallow knowing he probably will NOT be here next year

Being an innings eater is vastly underrated.

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 10:39 PM
Okay, Herrera DID jog out at first, but Dusty signaled NO, and then Masset came out.

reds44
05-26-2010, 10:39 PM
BOOOOOOO

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 10:40 PM
Single to center.

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 10:40 PM
Masset is so unlucky. He only pitches in the innings that the other team scores lots of runs.

reds44
05-26-2010, 10:40 PM
Here come a homer.

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 10:40 PM
Jesus Nick. C'mon.

alloverjr
05-26-2010, 10:41 PM
funny :laugh:

pedro
05-26-2010, 10:41 PM
Janish's career minor league numbers. These do not translate into a .605 OPS in the majors:

.261 .351 .382 .733

They don't translate into .800 OPS in the majors, but they certainly say that he can come very close to .700 OPS, which is what Cabrera gives you, when he is on a hot streak.

And the reason why he made it to the majors was because he was doing all those little things right in the minors. The Reds loved his baseball IQ.

Those numbers are skewed by success in the lower minors. His combined OPS in AA and AAA was below .700.

He's also almost 28. He is what he is, a good back up SS.

Cabrera's lifetime OPS is .719

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 10:41 PM
I hate hearing home fans boo their own players. Nick's struggled some this year, but he does NOT deserved to be booed.

reds44
05-26-2010, 10:42 PM
I hate hearing home fans boo their own players. Nick's struggled some this year, but he does NOT deserved to be booed.
BOOOOOOOOOO

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 10:42 PM
I guess Dusty is a fan of Sabermetrics afterall. I guess he keeps using Masset because his xFIP is so good.

kaldaniels
05-26-2010, 10:42 PM
I understand pulling BA...but putting Massett in was a poor choice.

RedsMan3203
05-26-2010, 10:43 PM
BOOOOOOOOOOOOO the ump....

reds44
05-26-2010, 10:43 PM
BOOOOOOOOOO

Homer Bailey
05-26-2010, 10:43 PM
UN REAL MASSET.

Honestly Dusty, why? Why not Coco? Masset is terrible.

TheNext44
05-26-2010, 10:43 PM
"I could have done that!" Arroyo thinks to himself in the dugout.

RedsMan3203
05-26-2010, 10:44 PM
How would you all fix Masset?

reds44
05-26-2010, 10:44 PM
How would you all fix Masset?
He wasn't any good with the White Sox. I'm not sure what there is to fix.

HokieRed
05-26-2010, 10:44 PM
Masset gives up a slam here he'd never have to worry about his major league xFIP again.

alloverjr
05-26-2010, 10:45 PM
Why not Del Rosario? Mix things up. The Masset/Herrera train's sputtering right now. They only needed 1 flippin' out.

kaldaniels
05-26-2010, 10:45 PM
"I could have done that!" Arroyo thinks to himself in the dugout.

Sorry apparently he maxed out on the ulmighty pitch count. :rolleyes:

reds44
05-26-2010, 10:45 PM
Why not Del Rosario? Mix things up. The Masset/Herrera train's sputtering right now. They only needed 1 flippin' out.
I definatley would have went with Henry.

RedsMan3203
05-26-2010, 10:45 PM
He wasn't any good with the White Sox. I'm not sure what there is to fix.

And last year was.............?

_Sir_Charles_
05-26-2010, 10:45 PM
Yeah Reds fans....that's how you help Nick rebuild his confidence...boo him off the field. Just sad.

Was he any good last year? Was he any good the first half of this month? He's got excellent stuff, but he's struggling. The only way to get him back on track is to let him pitch.

reds44
05-26-2010, 10:46 PM
Sorry apparently he maxed out on the ulmighty pitch count. :rolleyes:
Dusty came out and talked to Bronson, if BA wanted to stay in, he would have been in.

Kc61
05-26-2010, 10:46 PM
Some on Redszone don't like to spend money or trade players to add relievers. This is why you cannot succeed with a thin bullpen. When a guy like Masset struggles you need additional setup men to take over.

Nothing more demoralizing than losing in the late innings. Hope Reds hold on tonight.

alloverjr
05-26-2010, 10:46 PM
Yeah Reds fans....that's how you help Nick rebuild his confidence...boo him off the field. Just sad.



Those were howls from the dogs in the park you were hearing.

reds44
05-26-2010, 10:46 PM
And last year was.............?
He's a reliever. This is what they do.

That ball was killed.