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View Full Version : Hanigan breaks thumb



NorrisHopper30
05-29-2010, 05:09 PM
Corky Miller recalled. I think it's good that Ramon hasn't been playing every day and now he can be well rested for an increased workload while Hanigan recovers.

Vottomatic
05-29-2010, 05:15 PM
Huge loss in my opinion. Although Corky was hitting pretty well in triple A for once in his career.

FlightRick
05-29-2010, 05:20 PM
In a vacuum, I'd say this isn't that big a deal... Hernandez has got the bona fides to play 4 out of every 5 days, and it'd be tough to count on Hanigan to keep on producing offensively like he has so far this year.

But this isn't a vacuum, and I have to wonder: what does Hanigan's absence do to our pitching? Most specifically: is Arroyo gonna be the same without his Personal Catcher? Let's hope so: I'm in no mood for what should be a minor magnitude-2.1 injury having severe magnitude-6.8 aftershocks...


Rick

GIDP
05-29-2010, 05:45 PM
I hope Hernandez finds a power swing again because if he doesnt we are pretty weak at catcher until Ryan gets back.

HalMorrisRules
05-29-2010, 06:13 PM
Does anyone have any idea what play did it or what he was doing?

sabometrics
05-29-2010, 06:15 PM
Catcher Ryan Hanigan fractured his left thumb sliding into second base in the fourth inning Friday night.

HalMorrisRules
05-29-2010, 06:16 PM
Just found my own answer. Per Hal McCoy (http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2010/05/29/hanigan_breaks_thumb_miller_re.html)


Catcher Ryan Hanigan fractured his left thumb sliding into second base in the fourth inning Friday night.

Redeye fly
05-29-2010, 06:19 PM
I wouldn't necessarily say that GIDP, because neither one of our catchers really has a "power swing", although Hernandez did earlier in his career.

Even with that, the offense is generally more than fine with both of them doing what they do.

My concern would be more along the lines of the even worse than Paul Bako hole in the lineup when Corky gets the occasional start. I think Bronson Arroyo made a great point when he said basically for the first time since he's been here there are no major holes in the lineup. Yes, Stubbs has struggled but you still have to respect his power potential, and a struggling Stubbs is still better than some of the dreck we've run out there.

I mean I imagine it would only be a start a week, maybe 2 if Ramon needs it or Dusty wants to protect him. But Corky definitely shouldn't be starting against the Cris Carpenter's and Roy Halladay's of the world. If and when he starts, if Dusty is smart and if he's able to, start Corky against the lesser pitchers we face.

Vottomatic
05-29-2010, 06:19 PM
Team e.r.a. when Hanigan catches: 3.67
Team e.r.a. when Hernandez catches: 5.12

Redeye fly
05-29-2010, 06:27 PM
Team e.r.a. when Hanigan catches: 3.67
Team e.r.a. when Hernandez catches: 5.12

I don't know what that really says though. I would imagine Hernandez has caught Aaron Harang every start, so that is going to run "his ERA" up right there. I don't remember who's caught Bailey most of the time, but you've got to consider that too.

But Hernandez has also been catching Cueto, I believe, who's been on fire. And one of the reasons that have been mentioned for that is he's not shaking off Ramon, he's letting him call the game.

Who's caught Homer Bailey? That factors in too.

I'd have to go back and look, but at first guess I'd say Ramon just happens to be catching the lesser pitchers on our staff, and it has more to do with them than it does Ramon or Hanigan.

I do think Hanigan has some advantages over Ramon defensively. But I don't think the higher ERA necessarily reflects poorly on Ramon.

Maker_84
05-29-2010, 07:06 PM
This really sucks, Votto being hurt only makes it worse

GIDP
05-29-2010, 07:52 PM
I wouldn't necessarily say that GIDP, because neither one of our catchers really has a "power swing", although Hernandez did earlier in his career.

Even with that, the offense is generally more than fine with both of them doing what they do.

My concern would be more along the lines of the even worse than Paul Bako hole in the lineup when Corky gets the occasional start. I think Bronson Arroyo made a great point when he said basically for the first time since he's been here there are no major holes in the lineup. Yes, Stubbs has struggled but you still have to respect his power potential, and a struggling Stubbs is still better than some of the dreck we've run out there.

I mean I imagine it would only be a start a week, maybe 2 if Ramon needs it or Dusty wants to protect him. But Corky definitely shouldn't be starting against the Cris Carpenter's and Roy Halladay's of the world. If and when he starts, if Dusty is smart and if he's able to, start Corky against the lesser pitchers we face.

Hanigan has a far superior eye and bat skills though. Hanigan can get away with out having the power because he basically never swings and misses or he never swings at balls. Hes like the catching version of Luis Castillo of the Mets. Ramon has to have some power to produce because he will strike out, and he will chace balls out of the zone. With out the power hes going to not be nearly as productive as Hanigan.

GIDP
05-29-2010, 07:55 PM
I don't know what that really says though. I would imagine Hernandez has caught Aaron Harang every start, so that is going to run "his ERA" up right there. I don't remember who's caught Bailey most of the time, but you've got to consider that too.

But Hernandez has also been catching Cueto, I believe, who's been on fire. And one of the reasons that have been mentioned for that is he's not shaking off Ramon, he's letting him call the game.

Who's caught Homer Bailey? That factors in too.

I'd have to go back and look, but at first guess I'd say Ramon just happens to be catching the lesser pitchers on our staff, and it has more to do with them than it does Ramon or Hanigan.

I do think Hanigan has some advantages over Ramon defensively. But I don't think the higher ERA necessarily reflects poorly on Ramon.

Hanigan has caught Harang I think all but once this year. Basically Hanigan has caught Arroyo, and Harang a lot. Ramon has caught Leake and Cueto a lot. Split with Homer.

If I felt like it I would go count them up but I'm too lazy to do more than quick eye looks.

Reds
05-29-2010, 08:05 PM
Saw the replay on tv, it was jammed into the bag, nasty.

Vottomatic
05-29-2010, 08:28 PM
Hanigan has thrown out 38% of base stealers. Hernandez has thrown out 32%.

Griffey012
05-29-2010, 09:18 PM
Hanigan has a far superior eye and bat skills though. Hanigan can get away with out having the power because he basically never swings and misses or he never swings at balls. Hes like the catching version of Luis Castillo of the Mets. Ramon has to have some power to produce because he will strike out, and he will chace balls out of the zone. With out the power hes going to not be nearly as productive as Hanigan.

Ramon has a .391 OBP this season and a .750 ops. If he can hang onto close to those kind of numbers while Hanigan is out I will be plenty happy. Ramon doesn't strike out much either close 1 out of every 8 PA's for his career, and closer to around 1 out of 10 in recent years. Hanigan is better at a little better than 1 k out of 10 PA's for his career.

Hopefully this doesn't ruin Hanigan's hot streak.

Vottomatic
05-29-2010, 09:21 PM
Dickerson was just in the TV booth giving lots of insight into the clubhouse. He said his new nickname for Hanigan is Ryan Utley. Said Hanigan changed his batting stance to be like Utley's and that it has really paid off for him. He said Ryan told him after spring training he was going to "rake" this year, and so far he has.

Redeye fly
05-29-2010, 09:34 PM
Hanigan has caught Harang I think all but once this year. Basically Hanigan has caught Arroyo, and Harang a lot. Ramon has caught Leake and Cueto a lot. Split with Homer.

If I felt like it I would go count them up but I'm too lazy to do more than quick eye looks.

You might be right as I'm too lazy to look them up as well... but then if so those numbers don't make sense.

If Hanigan has caught Harang most of the time then he's caught the starter with the highest ERA on the staff most of the time. Ramon would be catching the lower ERA guys on the staff in Leake and Cueto.

Obviously we haven't talked about or factored in the bullpen in this, but then again that's the way it should be as far as this is concerned.

GIDP
05-29-2010, 09:37 PM
You might be right as I'm too lazy to look them up as well... but then if so those numbers don't make sense.

If Hanigan has caught Harang most of the time then he's caught the starter with the highest ERA on the staff most of the time. Ramon would be catching the lower ERA guys on the staff in Leake and Cueto.

Obviously we haven't talked about or factored in the bullpen in this, but then again that's the way it should be as far as this is concerned.

I think the stat is stupid also but he Hanigan has caught Harang and Arroyo a lot I checked it.

GIDP
05-29-2010, 09:39 PM
Ramon has a .391 OBP this season and a .750 ops. If he can hang onto close to those kind of numbers while Hanigan is out I will be plenty happy. Ramon doesn't strike out much either close 1 out of every 8 PA's for his career, and closer to around 1 out of 10 in recent years. Hanigan is better at a little better than 1 k out of 10 PA's for his career.

Hopefully this doesn't ruin Hanigan's hot streak.

No doubt Ramon is still a productive hitter but he requires more power to produce where Hanigan can get away with having basically none.

Vottomatic
05-29-2010, 09:51 PM
No doubt Ramon is still a productive hitter but he requires more power to produce where Hanigan can get away with having basically none.

......as Ramon hits 2 HR's tonight. LOL.

scott91575
05-29-2010, 10:02 PM
If anything it gives Hernandez a shot at the All Star team. With a 50/50 split it wasn't going to happen even though the Reds might be the most productive NL team behind the plate.

GIDP
05-29-2010, 10:38 PM
......as Ramon hits 2 HR's tonight. LOL.

I dont know if you are rubbing this in my face as if I was wrong or something.

Vottomatic
05-29-2010, 10:44 PM
I dont know if you are rubbing this in my face as if I was wrong or something.

No. Just found it funny. Not laughing at you. Just laughing at how the Reds are getting production from everywhere. And how just when you think you've got them figured out, they go and prove you and me wrong.

GIDP
05-29-2010, 10:46 PM
No. Just found it funny. Not laughing at you. Just laughing at how the Reds are getting production from everywhere. And how just when you think you've got them figured out, they go and prove you and me wrong.

Yea no doubt. I was actually worried that Ramon didnt have much power any more. He even with out the power could produce decently but its good to see him show its still present even if its just 1 game.

BigPoppa
05-30-2010, 01:18 AM
Hanigan has thrown out 38% of base stealers. Hernandez has thrown out 32%.

I did not realize their numbers were so close........I would have pegged Ramon as around a 25% man.

Kingspoint
05-30-2010, 02:49 AM
From C. Trent's twitter:

#Reds Hanigan said as far as fractures go, it's as good as you can hope for -- end of his left thumb. Hopes to be back in 3-4 weeks.

http://twitter.com/ctrent