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icehole3
06-04-2010, 03:08 PM
I know there are no untouchables, but what if you were GM and another GM said you can have my stud (for example) player if I can pick any guy from your farm system except for 6 untouchables, who would they be as of 06-04-10.

mine are:

Wood
Alonso
Chapman
Klinker
Mesoraco
Y Rodriguez

Benihana
06-04-2010, 03:13 PM
I know there are no untouchables, but what if you were GM and another GM said you can have my stud (for example) player if I can pick any guy from your farm system except for 6 untouchables, who would they be as of 06-04-10.

mine are:

Wood
Alonso
Chapman
Klinker
Mesoraco
Y Rodriguez

I'd still let him have anyone ;)

Klinker? Seriously?

GIDP
06-04-2010, 03:20 PM
I'm not sure I have any untouchbales right now other than Chapman. Maybe Mesoraco and Soto, but other than that? Everyone is tradeable.

lollipopcurve
06-04-2010, 03:21 PM
Chapman's the only untouchable for me.

Eric in IL
06-04-2010, 03:29 PM
I agree with the others. I say Chapman, Y. Rodriguez and maybe Mesoraco.

OesterPoster
06-04-2010, 03:29 PM
Chapman. The end.

jmcclain19
06-04-2010, 03:31 PM
Yeah other than Chapman, pretty much anyone in the minors is a trading chip to make the major league team better right now.

bucksfan2
06-04-2010, 03:32 PM
As for untouchables my list is short
Chapman
Mesoraco
Rodriguez

There are several guys who I would be hesitant to trade due to either being young, playing a position of need, or a combination of young and very high ceiling (but also very low floor).
Cozart
Hamiton
Duran
Alonso (as a LF)

edabbs44
06-04-2010, 03:33 PM
Chapman. The end.

Yep, and I could let him go if the deal involved a proven stud on the major league level.

GIDP
06-04-2010, 03:37 PM
As for untouchables my list is short
Chapman
Mesoraco
Rodriguez

There are several guys who I would be hesitant to trade due to either being young, playing a position of need, or a combination of young and very high ceiling (but also very low floor).
Cozart
Hamiton
Duran
Alonso (as a LF)
Yea i feel the same way. I think markets for a few guys arent going to be very good so I dont even consider them. Hamilton, Duran, and Yorman, all probably have limited markets just because of how "new" they are. Not saying teams wouldnt want them but I doubt anyone really request them.

I only added Soto to my list because his value is kinda blurry because of the position swap.

nemesis
06-04-2010, 03:42 PM
Chapman
Cozart
Mesarasco
Soto
Yorman
H. Rodriguez
Joseph (can't be traded til Aug anyways)
Hamilton (ditto)

Each has a very important role over the next few years.

Chapman is a Legit #1 starter.
Cozart has a great glove, great base-running and a High OBP at SS.
Mez is turning into a legit top 5 catching prospect in all of baseball.
Soto has the potential to be even better at the plate.
Yorman could become the best prospect in all the minors in 2 or 3 years.
Joseph could be a future closer.
Hamilton is a human tool shed.

Will M
06-04-2010, 03:42 PM
I also believe the only 'untouchable' is Chapman. He projects as a TOR starter. No other pitching prospect does & no hitting prospect projects as an All Star (IMO).

jmcclain19
06-04-2010, 03:52 PM
The word untouchable to me implies five star major league talent.

Roster filler guys like Klinker, Wood & Cozart certainly don't fill that bill. I never get why folks chronically overrate their own team's prospects.

Joey Votto is an untouchable. Jay Bruce maybe. Chapman certainly. Everyone else - can certainly be had for the right price.

mac624
06-04-2010, 04:09 PM
Majors: Votto, Leake, and Rolen

Not that I'd trade a bunch of the Redlegs, but these would be the three guys every single major league team could use right now, so they are my 5 star premium guys with Bruce right behind them.

Minors: Chapman and Mesoraco

Based upon potential and early season production these are my top two here. The next two would be Boxberger and Joseph but it's awful early to project on those two since they aren't even a year into their professional careers.

GOYA
06-04-2010, 04:10 PM
Everything has its price. Including Chapman.

nate
06-04-2010, 04:31 PM
No one is untouchable.

kaldaniels
06-04-2010, 04:38 PM
Geez give icehole a break. The man asked a simple question but it seems there are too many "smartest guy in the rooms" to give an answer to the question asked.

He asked for 6 minor leaguers.

Here you go.

Wood, Chapman, Frazier, Mes, Y Rod, Alonso

bucksfan2
06-04-2010, 04:39 PM
The word untouchable to me implies five star major league talent.

Roster filler guys like Klinker, Wood & Cozart certainly don't fill that bill. I never get why folks chronically overrate their own team's prospects.

Joey Votto is an untouchable. Jay Bruce maybe. Chapman certainly. Everyone else - can certainly be had for the right price.

Not that I don't agree with you but you have to consider what you have in the system. A guy like Cozart has more value to the Reds because he is their only SS prospect in the high minors.

nate
06-04-2010, 04:54 PM
Geez give icehole a break. The man asked a simple question but it seems there are too many "smartest guy in the rooms" to give an answer to the question asked.

He asked for 6 minor leaguers.

Here you go.

Wood, Chapman, Frazier, Mes, Y Rod, Alonso

I don't see what's not "giving a break" about thinking there aren't any "untouchable" players.

thatcoolguy_22
06-04-2010, 04:55 PM
I would easily give away Alonso to separate Icehole from his avatar...

Joseph
06-04-2010, 05:02 PM
No such things as untouchable.

I'd trade anybody, I just have to get back something I deem more valuable than I deemed the 'untouchable.'

Obviously some players would require more than would others. Chapman as an easily cited example would take more to get than would say, Wood. I think Chapman has more long term worth than Wood.

kaldaniels
06-04-2010, 05:08 PM
I don't see what's not "giving a break" about thinking there aren't any "untouchable" players.

He presented a scenario. If the other GM presented that offer to you, you are telling me you would stick your nose in the air and state "there are no untouchables".

Cedric
06-04-2010, 05:15 PM
It would take an impossibly good offer for me to trade Chapman.

medford
06-04-2010, 05:23 PM
To satisfy the "there are no untouchables" crowd, which I agree with in principle, can we change the question to "as of 6-4-10, which 6 minor leaguers do you consider the most important to the future of the reds?" which I think was the intent of the question to begin with.

To that I'll answer: Chapman, Yorman, Des, Cozart, Wood, Alonso

nate
06-04-2010, 05:27 PM
He presented a scenario. If the other GM presented that offer to you, you are telling me you would stick your nose in the air and state "there are no untouchables".

If I'm getting back a great player, I need to give up someone pretty good. Besides, the Reds farm system is so good they have SIX untouchables that you wouldn't trade for anyone?

I think _THAT_ is the snooty bit.

kaldaniels
06-04-2010, 05:42 PM
If I'm getting back a great player, I need to give up someone pretty good. Besides, the Reds farm system is so good they have SIX untouchables that you wouldn't trade for anyone?

I think _THAT_ is the snooty bit.

many deals are made that way

kaldaniels
06-04-2010, 05:45 PM
So yes or no Nate, are you going to give us your top 6 keepers or not, pointless semantics aside.

nate
06-04-2010, 05:54 PM
many deals are made that way

Maybe on the professional baseball teams you've run, but not mine!

:cool:

I'm saying no one should untouchable. Let's not confuse that with "everyone is available at firesale prices." Chapman should bring back a hefty return but he's not untouchable.

nate
06-04-2010, 05:58 PM
So yes or no Nate, are you going to give us your top 6 keepers or not, pointless semantics aside.

I don't have any keepers.

Nor are the semantics pointless. The Reds are team that's been rebuilding. It's time to finish something. If that means trading someone who might be good for someone who is good at a position of need, you do it.

I will say that my highest priced chip is Chapman.

kaldaniels
06-04-2010, 06:10 PM
Nate,

In the big picture, of course there are no untouchables. That was the first sentence of this thread!

The thread however is about what you would do, if a GM from another team offered you a player (who you want), and that GM wanted his choice of farmhand, but allowed you 6 untouchables in the deal. (Arguing whether untouchable was the term to use is arguing sematics). In this scenario, yes, there are 6 untouchables. So, lets say this proposal was made. What list of 6 would you submit to the other GM?

krm1580
06-04-2010, 06:28 PM
First of all I would agree that nobody is untouchable, but in the spirit of the original question for me it boils down to a pretty simple question. Is there anybody in our farm system that you are confident will be a upgrade over what we currently have on the major league team right now or even in the next year or 2?

For me the only guy that fits that description is Chapman who has the chance to be an elite starter.

Cozart and Wood might be slight upgrades to what is currenly in the majors but not so much that I would hesitate to trade them.

GIDP
06-04-2010, 06:36 PM
I understand an untouchable as someone you dont see being traded and getting a good return.

Would I trade Chapman? Yes. Would any team in baseball trade something good enough that would make me pull a trigger on any trade? highly unlikely. Thus making him untouchable.

mace
06-04-2010, 07:13 PM
In the spirit of the OP, I think everybody is putting way too much emphasis on the concept of untouchables, which was probably an unfortunate word choice. The OP acknowledged that there really aren't any of those. I think the spirit of the question is: If a trade stipulated that the other team could have anyone in your farm system except for six guys, who are the six guys you would protect?

I'm thinking something on the order of Chapman, Mesoraco, Cozart, Yorman, Francisco, and one from among Wood, Joseph, Soto, Frazier, Hamilton, Valor, Klinker, maybe Cline or Jacob Johnson, and probably somebody I'm not thinking of at the moment. That assumes Heisey is a big-leaguer.

Edit: Sorry, I missed kaldaniels' earlier post that said essentially the same thing.

nate
06-04-2010, 07:31 PM
Here's what I can't get past. If you're offered a player that won't take one of your best six prospects to get, why does it matter which six you won't give up to get him? It's not likely to be a great player you're receiving so why worry about giving up one of the six you value highest?

Will M
06-04-2010, 07:57 PM
My list of prospects I would like to keep & why:

1. Chapman (untouchable)
2. Cozart. doing well in AAA. Cabrera is on a 1 year deal. possibly our SS in 2011
3. Mesoraco. catchers & shortstops are hard to come by. even with his past struggles & his just recent promotion to AA I would like to keep him. however he certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker if it meant getting Oswalt, Reyes or some other stud.
4. Wood. basically because he is close to the show. with possibly both Harang & Arroyo gone after this year i'd hesitate to deal him. while he may be 6th on the depth chart behind Cueto-Bailey-Leake-Volquez-Chapman depth is good & he could leapfrog a guy.

so one 'untouchable' & three more guys i'd like to keep.

mdccclxix
06-04-2010, 08:03 PM
Here's what I can't get past. If you're offered a player that won't take one of your best six prospects to get, why does it matter which six you won't give up to get him? It's not likely to be a great player you're receiving so why worry about giving up one of the six you value highest?

Our system is very, very deep, that's why! :beerme:

kaldaniels
06-04-2010, 09:21 PM
I can understand people not wanting to go on the record with their opinions lest the thread be bumped a la the Gomes thread in the ORG. :D

mth123
06-04-2010, 09:35 PM
I take it to mean the 6 I'd least like to give up or would want the most for whether or not they are really untouchable. At this point in time my list would be:

1. Chapman
2. Mesoraco
3. Cozart
4. Y-Rod
5. Wood
6. Frazier

kaldaniels
06-04-2010, 09:43 PM
Mes' stock is rising big-time it seems.

mth123
06-04-2010, 09:52 PM
Mes' stock is rising big-time it seems.

Position scarcity plus performance gets you there. Tweeners who can hit a little are easy to find

nate
06-04-2010, 11:08 PM
Our system is very, very deep, that's why! :beerme:

Heh, OK.

Mario-Rijo
06-05-2010, 01:27 PM
Hmm, I agree no on is completely untouchable in this organization. Though you'd have one heck of a time prying Joey Votto from me, I'm sure others would deal him for much less than I. To me he is a Jeter a Larkin type player who you build around. Though I know this is about prospects so I'll play along.

#1 - Chapman (though if it's KC calling and it's Greinke it's bye bye Aroldis).
#2 - Yorman
#3 - Billy Hamilton (this kid could be super special)
#4 - Cozart (I'm partial to SS's)
#5 - Mesoraco
#6 - Frazier

joshnky
06-06-2010, 01:49 PM
Our system is very, very deep, that's why! :beerme:

Really? The system has promoted most of the top prospects to the majors and the remaining ones are in AAA (and struggling). This isn't to bash the Reds as this is the cycle a good farm system will endure.

HokieRed
06-06-2010, 06:03 PM
Nate's earlier question was a good one, IMO. I'd put it like this: most anything I can imagine wanting from another team is going to require one of the 6 best prospects in our system.

mdccclxix
06-06-2010, 06:27 PM
Really? The system has promoted most of the top prospects to the majors and the remaining ones are in AAA (and struggling). This isn't to bash the Reds as this is the cycle a good farm system will endure.

Tongue firmly in cheek there.

Although, I do think if the question is guarding 6 players, that still leaves room to shop with 4-9 other players. I think it's been brought up, but look at what fetched Phillips (Jeff Stevens). Another low cost player was Balentein. Look who left to Baltimore for Hernandez. See how Taveras was off loaded with Rosales. In reverse, Volquez for Texas might have fallen out of their top 6 scenario when he fetched Hamilton. So, while getting Cliff Lee won't be possible without top 6 talent in almost any organization, you can still be shopping with other guys and get as much or more than we've gotten before.

Taking the RZ top 15, chopping off the top 6, there are some interesting possibilities, again, considering how much we've gotten in the past for far less:

Prospect #1 - Aroldis Chapman
Prospect #2 - Yonder Alonso
Prospect #3 - Mike Leake - N/A
Prospect #4 - Todd Frazier
Prospect #5 - Juan Francisco
Prospect #6 - Yorman Rodriguez
Prospect #7 - Travis Wood
Prospect #8 - Chris Heisey
Prospect #9 - Zack Cozart
Prospect #10 - Brad Boxberger
Prospect #11 - Neftali Soto
Prospect #12 - Matt Maloney
Prospect #13 - Billy Hamilton
Prospect #14 - Chris Valaika
Prospect #15 - Matt Klinker


vs. (edited)

Jeff Stevens ----Brandon Phillips
Robert Manuel ----Wladdy
Justin Turner ----
Brandon Waring (and freel's contract)---Hernandez
Adam Rosales-----no Willy and cash
etc.

Kingspoint
06-06-2010, 06:34 PM
Since the thread question said to pick six, the six I'd pick are:

(Heisey would have been one, but it looks like he's up in the Majors to stay.)

So....

#1 Chapman
#2 Klinker
#3 Joseph
#4 Mesoraco
#5 Alonso
#6 Hotchkiss

mdccclxix
06-06-2010, 06:40 PM
Kingspoint,

What's the story on Hotchkiss? He's having a pretty good year, but he's a 31st round reliever, why top 6?

dougdirt
06-06-2010, 06:41 PM
Kingspoint,

What's the story on Hotchkiss? He's having a pretty good year, but he's a 31st round reliever, why top 6?

Regardless of whether it was 31st or 3rd.... why is any reliever on an 'untouchables' list?

camisadelgolf
06-06-2010, 06:43 PM
Regardless of whether it was 31st or 3rd.... why is any reliever on an 'untouchables' list?
And why is it Jordan Hotchkiss? It's pretty easy to make a case for Donnie Joseph--but Hotchkiss?.

Kingspoint
06-06-2010, 08:35 PM
I'm looking for players whom I feel right now could have "elite" careers in "what they do".

He's not an "untouchable", but if asked to put 6 guys on a list that couldn't be traded in that scenario (the first post of the thread), I'd add Hotchkiss because I feel he could become an elite (one of the 5 best in the Majors) Reliever over a period of 2+ years. That's an extremely valuable piece to a Major League team (see Arthur Rhodes).

I like how he's controlling both batters and situations this year.

Kingspoint
06-06-2010, 08:38 PM
If I had to list just "untouchables".

The list would be:

#1 Chapman
#2 Klinker
#3 Joseph
#4 Mesoraco
#5 Valaika
#6 Alonso

camisadelgolf
06-06-2010, 09:06 PM
I'm looking for players whom I feel right now could have "elite" careers in "what they do".

He's not an "untouchable", but if asked to put 6 guys on a list that couldn't be traded in that scenario (the first post of the thread), I'd add Hotchkiss because I feel he could become an elite (one of the 5 best in the Majors) Reliever over a period of 2+ years. That's an extremely valuable piece to a Major League team (see Arthur Rhodes).

I like how he's controlling both batters and situations this year.
Does that mean you would be upset if he were left eligible for the rule five draft following the end of the season?

Kingspoint
06-06-2010, 09:21 PM
Does that mean you would be upset if he were left eligible for the rule five draft following the end of the season?

I think that would be a mistake.

camisadelgolf
06-06-2010, 09:43 PM
I think that would be a mistake.
Did you have any thoughts when Ramon Geronimo went unprotected? Carlos Guevara? What separates Hotchkiss from those two?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=geroni001ram
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=guevar001jos

dougdirt
06-06-2010, 10:45 PM
Did you have any thoughts when Ramon Geronimo went unprotected? Carlos Guevara? What separates Hotchkiss from those two?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=geroni001ram
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=guevar001jos
His ability to throw over 90 MPH would be a start.

Kingspoint
06-06-2010, 11:22 PM
Did you have any thoughts when Ramon Geronimo went unprotected? Carlos Guevara? What separates Hotchkiss from those two?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=geroni001ram
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=guevar001jos


I'm not familiar enough with those two to have an opinion worthy of anything. But, I do like Hotchkiss a lot. Do you like those two or one of them especially?

camisadelgolf
06-07-2010, 01:56 AM
I'm not familiar enough with those two to have an opinion worthy of anything. But, I do like Hotchkiss a lot. Do you like those two or one of them especially?
They're two guys that some of us on RedsZone were fairly high on due to their numbers. However, they were lacking in stuff, and it eventually caught up to both of them. Jordan Hotchkiss has had a great career so far, but I think there's a good reason he hasn't seen AA yet despite being 24 years old.

TheNext44
06-07-2010, 02:58 AM
Everything has its price. Including Chapman.

I'd trade him for Price for that matter... David, that is. ;)

TheNext44
06-07-2010, 03:11 AM
Here's what I can't get past. If you're offered a player that won't take one of your best six prospects to get, why does it matter which six you won't give up to get him? It's not likely to be a great player you're receiving so why worry about giving up one of the six you value highest?

It's a hypothetical. If I asked you, what in your life would you NOT give up in order to marry Megan Fox, you have to assume that Megan Fox would merry you if you just gave up one item in your life. There not a chance in hell that would ever happen, but if it did, what would be your answer? It's not meant to be realistic.

And anyway, just assume it's Drayton Moore of the Royals offering you Grenke, for anyone in farm system, but giving you the chance to hold six of them back. That might actually happen. ;)

Vottomatic
06-07-2010, 09:03 AM
I look at future needs of the major league team.

1. You always need pitching, so obviously I'm not willing to trade our best pitching prospects - Chapman, Wood, Klinker.

2. We will need a catcher in the future. Mesoraco.

3. Finally, we will need to replace SS in a few years. Right now Cozart is untouchable for me except for a good return in trade.

Other than that, our OF is logjammed for years. So is 1B. We probably need a 2Bman eventually.

Kc61
06-07-2010, 10:34 AM
Most of the guys being mentioned are not untouchables IMO. In fact, most of the guys in the Reds system are very tradeable. Good, but not the kind of player likely to be dominant.

Chapman is probably untouchable.

After that I don't call anyone untouchable.

If I had to make a list it would be:

Chapman
Yorman Rodriguez
Francisco
Juan Duran
Donnie Joseph -- not untouchable but possibly a Reds mainstay in the near future.
Maybe Mesoraco because of his position.

Even this group is a stretch for untouchable status.

There are other guys who I would hold onto because they haven't had time to show us their ceiling as yet. Like Boxberger, for example.

kaldaniels
06-07-2010, 10:49 AM
Most of the guys being mentioned are not untouchables IMO. In fact, most of the guys in the Reds system are very tradeable. Good, but not the kind of player likely to be dominant.

Chapman is probably untouchable.

After that I don't call anyone untouchable.

If I had to make a list it would be:

Chapman
Yorman Rodriguez
Francisco
Juan Duran
Donnie Joseph -- not untouchable but possibly a Reds mainstay in the near future.
Maybe Mesoraco because of his position.

Even this group is a stretch for untouchable status.

There are other guys who I would hold onto because they haven't had time to show us their ceiling as yet. Like Boxberger, for example.

I was debating taking Duran as one of my 6, but in the spirit of the question, I chose Frazier, as I didn't think Duran would be plucked by the opposing GM...but Frazier might.

Kc61
06-07-2010, 11:05 AM
I was debating taking Duran as one of my 6, but in the spirit of the question, I chose Frazier, as I didn't think Duran would be plucked by the opposing GM...but Frazier might.

I'm taking the question at face value. To me, Duran is not someone you would trade. He comes highly touted. He hasn't had a chance to show his ability as yet.

I'd want to hold onto Duran and Rodriguez, both, and see what they've got.

kaldaniels
06-07-2010, 11:25 AM
I'm taking the question at face value. To me, Duran is not someone you would trade. He comes highly touted. He hasn't had a chance to show his ability as yet.

I'd want to hold onto Duran and Rodriguez, both, and see what they've got.

What is your face value of the question?

Kc61
06-07-2010, 11:50 AM
What is your face value of the question?


The face value is that the question asks who is "untouchable."

I take that to mean, who shouldn't be traded.

I do not take it to mean, what is your current top prospects list. That could be a different question, depending on the individual prospect.

dougdirt
06-07-2010, 12:13 PM
I think the only true untouchable is Chapman, but I would be very hesitant to trade these guys as well: Devin Mesoraco, Yorman Rodriguez, Zack Cozart and Billy Hamilton. Not the 'best' prospects, but guys that aren't as easily replaced in the system. Mesoraco is showing some skills right now that no other catcher in the system can come close to matching. Yorman Rodriguez and Billy Hamilton are two super athletes and the system is bare of them beyond those two. Zack Cozart is a guy who I think could be every bit the player that Orlando Cabrera has been for the Reds so far, but with more upside moving forward and is the only real option for SS in the system for the next 2-3 years.

kaldaniels
06-07-2010, 12:45 PM
The face value is that the question asks who is "untouchable."

I take that to mean, who shouldn't be traded.

I do not take it to mean, what is your current top prospects list. That could be a different question, depending on the individual prospect.

The thing is that wasn't the question exactly. In the question given there is a major league gm waiting to pick his top guy that you don't protect.

Kc61
06-07-2010, 12:49 PM
The thing is that wasn't the question exactly. In the question given there is a major league gm waiting to pick his top guy that you don't protect.


Doesn't change my view. Those are the six I would protect.

I think Doug adds a good one in Hamilton. He'd be my seventh. I want to keep him as well, to see how he develops. Seems like he has a lot of talent.

TRF
06-07-2010, 01:21 PM
Chapman and Yorman...




then much lower I'd add:

Mesoraco IF his numbers hold up (.800+ OPS at AA, but he's going to have to pick it up a bit to reach .800)

Juan Duran. Youth, big time power potential. You don't Shell out 2M for guys you intend to trade. The Reds see him as the future in the OF, probably LF.

Donnie Joseph. Sick numbers. at Low A, continued into High A. K machine.

Then you have a group of 10-12 guys, all interchangeable. Maybe JF? Soto? one of the SS's? No one screams untouchable. Frazier and Alonso both are struggling. Valaika is solid, but not a sexy can't miss guy. Hamilton is raw, and lacks power potential. None of the pitchers, Wood, Maloney, LeCure, Klinker, Fairel, JCS etc. scream untouchable.

Vottomatic
06-07-2010, 01:36 PM
Chapman and Yorman...




then much lower I'd add:

Mesoraco IF his numbers hold up (.800+ OPS at AA, but he's going to have to pick it up a bit to reach .800)

Juan Duran. Youth, big time power potential. You don't Shell out 2M for guys you intend to trade. The Reds see him as the future in the OF, probably LF.

Donnie Joseph. Sick numbers. at Low A, continued into High A. K machine.

Then you have a group of 10-12 guys, all interchangeable. Maybe JF? Soto? one of the SS's? No one screams untouchable. Frazier and Alonso both are struggling. Valaika is solid, but not a sexy can't miss guy. Hamilton is raw, and lacks power potential. None of the pitchers, Wood, Maloney, LeCure, Klinker, Fairel, JCS etc. scream untouchable.

I agree with this. I named 6 because I thought we had to.

My list would be Chapman and Mesoraco.

HokieRed
06-07-2010, 03:06 PM
Still think that if you're writing off the top six in the organization, it's very likely the return's not going to be much more than something you already have or can acquire through some other means. That said, I'd be hard put to trade Chapman in any reasonably forseeable transaction. Upside and potential impact are just too great.

nemesis
06-07-2010, 03:33 PM
Hamilton reminds me of Andrus. I could see Hamilton swiping 50 - 60 bases over a full season. He could develop gap power and certainly has the speed to be a triples machine. His OBP is going to be his key. His toolset is that of a lead-off guy. He needs to develop his pitch selection for him to be successful Major Leaguer. Yorman and Duran fall into the same boat for me. Both are so young that even if it takes 5 more years to develop they'd only be 22 and 23 yrs old. This is why I like the Latin American signings. Gives the team a longer window of opportunity with each player.

In A ball or lower you have:

CF Yorman
LF Duran
SS/2B/CF Hamilton
RF Silva
SS Gregorious
2B H. Rodriguez
C/2B Bardhardt
2B Sierra
OF Bowe
OF Morrison
SS Arias
SS Valor
SP Guillon
SP Johnson
SP Sulbaran
SP Cline
SP Tuttle
RP Corcino
RP Adames
RP Driessen
RP Clarke
RP R. Rodriguez

All these kids have had success. Everyone of them is 20 or younger. Thats 23 of them. Granted they are a long way away from the majors. But add in a fresh draft class this week, International signings in a couple weeks and the DSL and VSL players and your talking 40 players with plus tools and pitches. The untouchable list could get very big very quickly...

JayBruce
06-07-2010, 08:57 PM
Untouchable?

AVG OBP SLG OPS
.243 .316 .412 .728

Born: 08/12/1985

JayBruce
06-07-2010, 09:06 PM
Career:

AVG OBP SLG OPS
.261 .333 .410 .743

How you even consider parting with this gentleman?

dougdirt
06-07-2010, 09:55 PM
Career:

AVG OBP SLG OPS
.261 .333 .410 .743

How you even consider parting with this gentleman?

Above average defensive shortstop with solid pop and solid plate discipline when your current SS is only signed through the end of the year makes him a tough move.

Kingspoint
06-07-2010, 10:11 PM
Above average defensive shortstop with solid pop and solid plate discipline when your current SS is only signed through the end of the year makes him a tough move.

I'm going the same way, but with Valaika at 2nd Base. Phillips costs $11M next year, and I think Valaika will give us what we want over the next 4-5-6 years at the Major League level similar to Cozart (who'll probably hit better).

flyer85
06-07-2010, 10:23 PM
I'd be more than willing to trade Alonso. unfortunately he doesn't have a very good track record as a hitter for a 1b.

Kingspoint
09-03-2010, 05:18 AM
Some people asked me what I liked about Hotchkiss, at least enough to place him 6th in an "untouchable" category.

He's continued to show this year why I'm high on him as a viable Major League contributor.

Let's see what he does next season. A full season at Carolina, with the goal of getting him to 150+ innings pitched and injury-free, will be another measurable to see if he can climb the next step. Whether or not he pitches well enough in the first half of the season to justify a jump to Louisville for the second half will remain to be seen. But, I'm certain that at some point next season he makes starts for Louisville. When that happens will be up to him, of course.

He's moved up in the organizational depth charts, for sure.

At 25 next year, while splitting time between Louisville and Carolina (mostly Carolina), he won't be too old. It's very possible that he makes his Major League debut at the age of 26 in 2012. That could be as a Starter or a Reliever (to be determined).

Congratulations on earning the Carolina League Pitcher-of-the-Year during a season where he started as a Reliever and ended up a Starter.

With only 17 starts in 4 Minor League seasons (15 since June of this year), next year will be his first season as a full-time Starter. We'll have a really good idea after 2011 whether or not he can be a Starter in the future.