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View Full Version : Please Keep DRH on the Pine in 1 run affairs.



bgwilly31
06-08-2010, 12:10 PM
Okay ive had about enough of dustys decisions on when to bring in DRH. It seems every time he sets the guy up for failure.

Situations dusty should bring in DRH.

1.)3-4+ run game let him eat an inning or two
2.) Tied or 1 run ball game vs 1 LEFT HANDED batter preferably nobody on.


Situations dusty should NOT bring in DRH.

1.) Tie ball games with RISP.
2.) Tie or 1 run ball games to try to eat an Inning or two.


DRH throws to slow and is Very hittable.

His position in this bullpen should be very rare occasions in close ball games. And an inning eater in games where we are winning or losing badly. Thats it. Dusty is setting DRH up for us to not like him anymore.

Fon Duc Tow
06-08-2010, 12:36 PM
but...but..but... his ERA!!! :rolleyes:

bgwilly31
06-08-2010, 12:44 PM
^^ i get your sarcasm.

His ERA is low because dusty uses him in relief in the middle of an inning. So he gives up Other pitchers runs left on base. Then gets taken out of the game.

I dont think DRH is completely useless. i just think he's being used in the completly wrong way.

nemesis
06-08-2010, 12:46 PM
It's not low anymore. It's over 4 now

webbbj
06-08-2010, 12:53 PM
i would look to use lecure or chapman in the bullpen at some point. i thought originally if ur grooming for starters it could inhibit their progress but TB used david price as a reliever for their WS run and now he may be the best pitcher in the AL so it may not be that big of a deal to use some of those guys in the pen.

roby
06-08-2010, 01:18 PM
i would look to use lecure or chapman in the bullpen at some point. i thought originally if ur grooming for starters it could inhibit their progress but TB used david price as a reliever for their WS run and now he may be the best pitcher in the AL so it may not be that big of a deal to use some of those guys in the pen.

The reds started Jose Rijo out in the bullpen and it worked well with him. I agree 100% about Herrera...it seems like everybody in the ballpark knows what is going to happen when he's brought into a close game. Except Dusty. It is painful to just give away close games. :(

Parliament
06-08-2010, 04:26 PM
Chris Welsh mentioned it one game but I've noticed it happen many times to DRH. When he falls behind in the count or when he tries to get too cute he'll throw his fastball hoping to catch the batter by surprise and that is when he is getting hit. On nights where his screwball is missing he is very likely to get hit and hit hard.

kfm
06-08-2010, 08:03 PM
Okay ive had about enough of dustys decisions on when to bring in DRH. It seems every time he sets the guy up for failure.

Situations dusty should bring in DRH.

1.)3-4+ run game let him eat an inning or two
2.) Tied or 1 run ball game vs 1 LEFT HANDED batter preferably nobody on.


Situations dusty should NOT bring in DRH.

1.) Tie ball games with RISP.
2.) Tie or 1 run ball games to try to eat an Inning or two.


DRH throws to slow and is Very hittable.

His position in this bullpen should be very rare occasions in close ball games. And an inning eater in games where we are winning or losing badly. Thats it. Dusty is setting DRH up for us to not like him anymore.

Doesn't your description of when DRH should be used apply to almost everyone in the bullpen?

Kingspoint
06-09-2010, 04:14 AM
It's so easy to rag on a guy when he's down.

DRH is a good pitcher.

He'll come around.

flash
06-09-2010, 09:21 AM
The simple fact is that batters are adjusting to him, and his slow stuff. They are sitting on his fast ball. Dusty said at the beginning of last year that batters would eventeually adjust to him. Well, they finally have.

bgwilly31
06-09-2010, 02:04 PM
Doesn't your description of when DRH should be used apply to almost everyone in the bullpen?

Hopefully your smarter than that.

kfm
06-09-2010, 10:54 PM
Hopefully your smarter than that.

Ok Genius, tell me the guys not name Arthur Rhodes you feel comformtable with pitching late in a close game. I love how when someone challenges what you say you come back with a personal attack instead of an actual fact based argument to support your typically weak point of view. Answer the question genius.

Kingspoint
06-09-2010, 11:05 PM
Dusty said at the beginning of last year that batters would eventeually adjust to him.


Nothing like throwing your player under the bus. I can't imagine he actually said anything resembling that. If you say he did, though.

Griffey012
06-09-2010, 11:16 PM
Nothing like throwing your player under the bus. I can't imagine he actually said anything resembling that. If you say he did, though.

Hitters adjust to any pitcher or hitter who gets to the bigs. It's just another quote by Dusty being taken out of it's context. Remember Bruce when he came up, he torched the ball until pitchers adjusted to him. I think Dusty simply meant DRH was going to have to do some adjusting himself once hitters saw him once or twice and got more game tape.

kfm
06-09-2010, 11:40 PM
Nothing like throwing your player under the bus. I can't imagine he actually said anything resembling that. If you say he did, though.

I don't understand how this is throwing a player under the bus. Every hitter and pitcher who is successful are going to have to adjust to the adjustments players make to them. That is precisely why you see players who are good for a short period of time because they don't adjust to the adjustments people make against them.

arkimadee
06-09-2010, 11:48 PM
I saw in his eyes tonight that he is done with DRH.. he just looked fed up and maybe this will be the last time he gives this kind of trust in him

Griffey012
06-09-2010, 11:55 PM
I saw in his eyes tonight that he is done with DRH.. he just looked fed up and maybe this will be the last time he gives this kind of trust in him

It's a fair assumption. At some point you gotta get hitters out. However, DRH is simply not a guy you start innings with. I am not really a big DRH fan, but I definitely think he has been misused, simply as a direct result of the poor performance of the rest of the pen.

kfm
06-10-2010, 12:12 AM
It's a fair assumption. At some point you gotta get hitters out. However, DRH is simply not a guy you start innings with. I am not really a big DRH fan, but I definitely think he has been misused, simply as a direct result of the poor performance of the rest of the pen.

I agree with your sentiment. If Masset were pitching well, DRH would not see the situations he has been put into. The problem with him this year is that he is bad against batters period, he is worse against lefties than righties. Lefties are hitting .346 against him and righties are hitting .341. So it is not like you can use him as a specialist. Right now he is just bad, but that pretty much describes the bullpen.

bgwilly31
06-10-2010, 12:40 AM
Ok Genius, tell me the guys not name Arthur Rhodes you feel comformtable with pitching late in a close game. I love how when someone challenges what you say you come back with a personal attack instead of an actual fact based argument to support your typically weak point of view. Answer the question genius.

a personal attack.

You get a little heated there buddy. lol

Umm well ok heres a list of pitchers that would be better then DRH in 1 run or tie game situations:

1.) arthur rhodes
2.) M. owings
3.) N. Masset
4.) C. Fisher
5.) Ondrususk
6.) DRH

Pretty much in order of should appear in close ball games.

so yeah im not really sure how you could argue that but you go ahead and try.

kfm
06-10-2010, 12:56 AM
a personal attack.

You get a little heated there buddy. lol

Umm well ok heres a list of pitchers that would be better then DRH in 1 run or tie game situations:

1.) arthur rhodes
2.) M. owings
3.) N. Masset
4.) C. Fisher
5.) Ondrususk
6.) DRH

Pretty much in order of should appear in close ball games.

so yeah im not really sure how you could argue that but you go ahead and try.

The question was name the guys not named Rhodes who you feel comfortable pitching late in close games. ALthough I do appreciate your effort to change the question to a more manageable one that you could answer. That is a nice tactic to employ. So if you want to answer the actual question that would be great. If not I understand, because if there are pitchers, other than Rhodes who you feel comfortable pitching late in close games I have some swamp land I would like to sell you.

Kingspoint
06-10-2010, 04:18 AM
Forgive me if I throw some facts into the equation. Hope it doesn't muddle things up a bit. Not giving an argument for or against. Just putting some facts out there to better understand how the Relievers are doing in two situations....allowing inherited runners to score and their OPS-Against in 1-run or tie games.

Here are the percentages of inherited runners that each pitcher allows to score in a game. I'll list them from first to worst.

Rhodes.......11%
Herrera.......27%
Ondrusek.....29%
Masset........38%
Lincoln........44%
Fisher.........50%
Owings........73%
Cordero.......75%
Del Rosario...80%


Their OPS-Against in (1-Run Games) and (Tie Games) (keep in mind that some of these situations are less than 6 Plate Appearances):

Rhodes.......(.400), (.778)
Lincoln........(.538), (.000)
Owings........(.591), (.557)
Cordero.......(.722), (.650)
Fisher.........(.733), (1.000)
Ondrusek.....(.770), (.929)
Masset........(.812), (.851)
Del Rosario...(.962), (1.333)
Herrera.......(1.038), (1.336)

Also, their BABip in (1-Run Games) and (Tie Games) (keep in mind that some of these situations are less than 6 Plate Appearances):

Rhodes.......(.129), (.143)
Owings........(.182), (.200)
Lincoln........(.231), (.000)
Cordero.......(.263), (.222)
Ondrusek.....(.294), (.429)
Fisher.........(.300), (.250)
Del Rosario...(.445), (.667)
Masset........(.452), (.500)
Herrera.......(.565), (.857)

Kingspoint
06-10-2010, 04:59 AM
Also, Save Opportunities:

Herrera.........0 for 1
Ondrusek......0 for 1
Del Rosario....0 for 2
Masset.........1 for 1
Cordero......16 for 20

No one else has blown a save or saved a game.

So, other than Cordero, the rest of the Relievers are 1 for 5, so I guess it's kind of hard to blame Dusty for bringing in Cordero with a 4-Run lead.

bgwilly31
06-10-2010, 12:27 PM
The question was name the guys not named Rhodes who you feel comfortable pitching late in close games. ALthough I do appreciate your effort to change the question to a more manageable one that you could answer. That is a nice tactic to employ. So if you want to answer the actual question that would be great. If not I understand, because if there are pitchers, other than Rhodes who you feel comfortable pitching late in close games I have some swamp land I would like to sell you.

lol what are you talking about.

Did you not read my post.

I gave you a whole list of pitchers not just rhodes.. . . . . . . . :rolleyes:

bgwilly31
06-10-2010, 03:24 PM
I guess dusty hasnt read this thread. DRH in the bullpen getting ready in a tie ball game with men on and no outs.

:help:

kfm
06-10-2010, 11:35 PM
lol what are you talking about.

Did you not read my post.

I gave you a whole list of pitchers not just rhodes.. . . . . . . . :rolleyes:

You are amazing that you can post this response. You have not come anywhere close to actually answering the question that was posed to you. I think you are plenty smart enough and you know you did not. BGWilly, you need to get to the United States Senate asap because you are the master of the fillibuster. You know you have not actually responded to my question, but you are undaunted by that and the more you don't answer my actual question, while I have to admit I admire your attempts to pretend like you did, the more it proves how much you do not support your position. So I will ask you one more time fella and you may want to read this part very slowly. "who on this team, other than Rhodes, do you feel comfortable with late in a close game." The question was not who do you feel more comfortable with in close game late than you do with DRH. THat is the question you are attempting to answer, and I can understand why you are attempting to answer that question. But that was not actually the questioned that was asked. I don't expect you to answer the actual question because you know that you do not feel comfortable late in a close game with just about anyone in the bullpen, but hey man stick to your pride and keep pretending like that is not what I asked you.

DirtyBaker
06-10-2010, 11:53 PM
There's plenty of adjustment, Dusty's just stating facts. Bruce and Cueto each had huge numbers their first time through the league and a big drop off after.

flash
06-11-2010, 09:00 AM
Bray struck out the side in his inning of work last night. He now has 8 K's in 4 innings.

bleedsred
06-11-2010, 11:37 AM
Bray needs to be in Cincy yesterday.....I also wonder what would happen if Massett and Owings switched roles in the pen?

bgwilly31
06-11-2010, 12:18 PM
You are amazing that you can post this response. You have not come anywhere close to actually answering the question that was posed to you. I think you are plenty smart enough and you know you did not. BGWilly, you need to get to the United States Senate asap because you are the master of the fillibuster. You know you have not actually responded to my question, but you are undaunted by that and the more you don't answer my actual question, while I have to admit I admire your attempts to pretend like you did, the more it proves how much you do not support your position. So I will ask you one more time fella and you may want to read this part very slowly. "who on this team, other than Rhodes, do you feel comfortable with late in a close game." The question was not who do you feel more comfortable with in close game late than you do with DRH. THat is the question you are attempting to answer, and I can understand why you are attempting to answer that question. But that was not actually the questioned that was asked. I don't expect you to answer the actual question because you know that you do not feel comfortable late in a close game with just about anyone in the bullpen, but hey man stick to your pride and keep pretending like that is not what I asked you.

Why are you harping on this so much. Each time writing a book of redundant jibberish.

Once again i will say. The first time you asked i gave a list of the pitchers. From most comfortable to least comfortable.

kfm
06-11-2010, 06:35 PM
Why are you harping on this so much. Each time writing a book of redundant jibberish.

Once again i will say. The first time you asked i gave a list of the pitchers. From most comfortable to least comfortable.

Let's just move on, it is clear you have no intention of answering my actual question and no shame in pretending like you are.

powersackers
06-11-2010, 06:55 PM
Forgive me if I throw some facts into the equation. Hope it doesn't muddle things up a bit. Not giving an argument for or against. Just putting some facts out there to better understand how the Relievers are doing in two situations....allowing inherited runners to score and their OPS-Against in 1-run or tie games.

Here are the percentages of inherited runners that each pitcher allows to score in a game. I'll list them from first to worst.

Rhodes.......11%
Herrera.......27%
Ondrusek.....29%
Masset........38%
Lincoln........44%
Fisher.........50%
Owings........73%
Cordero.......75%
Del Rosario...80%


Their OPS-Against in (1-Run Games) and (Tie Games) (keep in mind that some of these situations are less than 6 Plate Appearances):

Rhodes.......(.400), (.778)
Lincoln........(.538), (.000)
Owings........(.591), (.557)
Cordero.......(.722), (.650)
Fisher.........(.733), (1.000)
Ondrusek.....(.770), (.929)
Masset........(.812), (.851)
Del Rosario...(.962), (1.333)
Herrera.......(1.038), (1.336)

Also, their BABip in (1-Run Games) and (Tie Games) (keep in mind that some of these situations are less than 6 Plate Appearances):

Rhodes.......(.129), (.143)
Owings........(.182), (.200)
Lincoln........(.231), (.000)
Cordero.......(.263), (.222)
Ondrusek.....(.294), (.429)
Fisher.........(.300), (.250)
Del Rosario...(.445), (.667)
Masset........(.452), (.500)
Herrera.......(.565), (.857)

Thanks for scouting out this valuable data. In my perfect world the bullpen would look like this:

CL Cordero
Setup RHP LeCure
Setup LHP Rhodes
Lefty Specialist Bray
Longman Owings
Middle Del Rosario
Middle Ondrusek

Masset and DRH can be farmed, released, DL'd until the can figure it out and possibly come back and replace LeCure and a Middle guy

Kingspoint
06-12-2010, 04:34 AM
Thanks for scouting out this valuable data. In my perfect world the bullpen would look like this:

CL Cordero
Setup RHP LeCure
Setup LHP Rhodes
Lefty Specialist Bray
Longman Owings
Middle Del Rosario
Middle Ondrusek

Masset and DRH can be farmed, released, DL'd until the can figure it out and possibly come back and replace LeCure and a Middle guy

That may be Walt's plans, too. Bray just had another good outing.

Kingspoint
06-12-2010, 04:35 AM
There's plenty of adjustment, Dusty's just stating facts. Bruce and Cueto each had huge numbers their first time through the league and a big drop off after.

Yes. The "sophomore slump". Not everyone goes through it, but most do.

bgwilly31
06-13-2010, 04:12 PM
I feel sorry for the kid seriously.

You should have given DRH a chance to get a bit of his swagger back last night with a 6 run lead.

instead you work the hell out of our MAIN guy Sir arthur. and save DRh for another TIGHT high pressure situation.

Quite possibly the dumbest Bullpen manager ever.

ILoveWilly
06-13-2010, 04:16 PM
He's horrible, release this tool. I rather have Weathers.

EDIT: Oh wait, this is about Herrera and not Del Rosario. They both suck, I can't tell one from another, different hispanic name, same crappy results.

Vottomatic
06-13-2010, 04:25 PM
I feel sorry for the kid seriously.

You should have given DRH a chance to get a bit of his swagger back last night with a 6 run lead.

instead you work the hell out of our MAIN guy Sir arthur. and save DRh for another TIGHT high pressure situation.

Quite possibly the dumbest Bullpen manager ever.

Agreed. Never have understood Dusty's use of the bullpen.

ILoveWilly
06-13-2010, 04:30 PM
And Massett sucks too. It's like the pen is having a contest to see who the first to be designated for assignment can be.

morgantown
06-13-2010, 04:51 PM
My biggest problem with DRH is his inability to get lh out...they are hitting .400 or better against him and dusty keeps bringing him in to face them.

TheBigLebowski
06-13-2010, 04:52 PM
Damaging Rey Hererra needs to jump on the first bus to Louisville when this game is over. Then, once he gets there, for fun, he can send the bus driver out to the back of the parking lot and, once it's picked up 75 MPH speed, send Damaging to the back of the bus, have him cork off a heater, and see if the bus runs out of gas before the ball hits the driver.

Folks, I hate to say I told you so.....wait, I actually love it. Anyways, I was saying all last season that Damaging was a mirage and would not sustain long-term success on the ML level.

kfm
06-13-2010, 05:25 PM
This bullpen is terrible. I will agree I have no idea why Rhodes was used last night instead of today, it just does not make any sense to me. The reality is we are constantly talking about when one guy is going to pitch. There are too many guys in this bullpen who are just not any good.

DRH= can't get lefties or righties out, has the most deceiving ERA since Greg Caderet
Lincoln= DL only thing saving him from DFA'd, and the fact that the rest of the bullpen stinks era over 7
Masset= shell of the pitcher he was last year era over 7
Del Rosario= who knows, nice era, but seems like inherited runners are pretty much going to score against
Ondrusek= shows some potential, but his era is still closer to 8 than 7
Fisher= I can't believe this guy used to be a starter, his era is almost 10
Owings=hits better than he pitches. Nice era but 19BB in 26ip.
All of these guys have something else in common, the league is hitting over .300 against them. This is the bullpen minus Rhodes and Cordero. While some people are comfortable with these guys late in close games, I am not. Instead of trashing Dusty as a bad bullpen manager, he was fine last year, we should be asking ourselves how can a team be in first place with bullpen numbers this bad. More importantly, is it possible for a team to stay in first place with a bullpen this bad?

ILoveWilly
06-13-2010, 06:06 PM
I would love to find another Weather or Mercker type out there in the trade land. Heck, I don't see why Weathers can't come back period. What is the bias against 40 something middle relief? Look what Rhodes has done. Apparently it isn't worth all that much to people. They rather bring up weak minor league players.

kfm
06-13-2010, 06:22 PM
I would love to find another Weather or Mercker type out there in the trade land. Heck, I don't see why Weathers can't come back period. What is the bias against 40 something middle relief? Look what Rhodes has done. Apparently it isn't worth all that much to people. They rather bring up weak minor league players.

I am with you, I never quite understood the weathers anger. We really only get the value of guys once they are gone. Just imagine if Coco ended up on the DL for any period of time, man would some people suddenly understand his value.

texasdave
06-13-2010, 06:33 PM
In the end it isn't going to matter, because if the best relievers on this team have to be continually brought in to hold 6-run leads this team is going to sink eventually. That is unsustainable.

kfm
06-13-2010, 06:40 PM
In the end it isn't going to matter, because if the best relievers on this team have to be continually brought in to hold 6-run leads this team is going to sink eventually. That is unsustainable.

Can you explain your use of the word continually, how many times has the best guy been brought in to protect a six run lead. I am sure you must have some basis to use the word continually, so how many times has it happened this year 10, 15, 20? For you to use the word continually I am guessing it has happened a lot because no reasonable person one would say continually if it had happened once or twice.

Vottomatic
06-13-2010, 10:15 PM
I would love to find another Weather or Mercker type out there in the trade land. Heck, I don't see why Weathers can't come back period. What is the bias against 40 something middle relief? Look what Rhodes has done. Apparently it isn't worth all that much to people. They rather bring up weak minor league players.

Our bullpen was good the last few years, and obviously Weathers was a part of the reason why.

I guess I underappreciated the guy because all he did was continually post an ERA below 4.00 each season, something that Fisher (9.82), Ondrusek (7.82), Lincoln (7.32), and Masset (7.00) have failed to do. Herrera's ERA is deceiving because his BAA is .329. Hitters are drilling Del Rosario at a .357 clip. In fact, only Owings (.213), Rhodes (.135), and Cordero (.267) are getting hit at a clip less than .300. Del Rosario has allowed 7 of 9 inherited baserunners to score. Owings biggest problem has been walks, but you have to wonder if that's a control problem due to long periods of inactivity?

Our bullpen is pathetic and a mess. This organization's slow reaction to fixing it is going to wear out the patience of the fans and the Reds' hitters.

For all the good that is happening with this team, this particular area is a complete embarrassment.

We have 3 relievers who aren't batting tees. Seriously. And even Cordero and Owings make me nervous at times.

bgwilly31
06-13-2010, 11:15 PM
Can you explain your use of the word continually, how many times has the best guy been brought in to protect a six run lead. I am sure you must have some basis to use the word continually, so how many times has it happened this year 10, 15, 20? For you to use the word continually I am guessing it has happened a lot because no reasonable person one would say continually if it had happened once or twice.

He's talking about future presence kfm. No surprise once agin you have trouble grasping the point of peoples posts.

Kingspoint
06-14-2010, 05:06 PM
Bray pitched well again yesterday after his callup to a stronger league.

The Voice of IH
06-19-2010, 12:50 AM
Baker Completely disregarding this thread tonight.

Luckily, DRH was able to get the confusing strike out :thumbup:

Kingspoint
06-19-2010, 12:57 AM
Nice job tonight, DRH!

1990REDS
06-19-2010, 10:42 AM
Hopefully its the start of somthing good for him.

bgwilly31
06-19-2010, 10:59 AM
Baker Completely disregarding this thread tonight.

Luckily, DRH was able to get the confusing strike out :thumbup:

I had to listen to this game so i didnt get to see. But I was sweating it.

kfm
06-19-2010, 12:23 PM
He's talking about future presence kfm. No surprise once agin you have trouble grasping the point of peoples posts.

So he is claiming that we should not sign David Weathers because it will be useless because since something had happened once it was bound to happen over and over again and therefore he move would be useless. Yes, that makes a lot more sense, I am glad you are always around to clear things up. God knows how we could make it without your brilliance. As far as understanding post, perhaps there would be less confusion if you would stop backpeddaling from your post when you know you've made a ridiculous comment.

Kiss the Baby00
06-19-2010, 03:13 PM
So he is claiming that we should not sign David Weathers because it will be useless because since something had happened once it was bound to happen over and over again and therefore he move would be useless. Yes, that makes a lot more sense, I am glad you are always around to clear things up. God knows how we could make it without your brilliance. As far as understanding post, perhaps there would be less confusion if you would stop backpeddaling from your post when you know you've made a ridiculous comment.

we shouldnt sign david weathers bc he is old, hasnt pitched since last year for MIL and he was horrible for Milwaukee. 4.88 ERA 1.5 WHIP LOL. and you guys hate DRH?