6-8-10 Giants at Reds

[FlyerFanatic]

can i have weathers back? first pitch swinging again...patience is gone at the plate

[Kingspoint]

Burton gave up a Walk followed by a Homerun in his inning of work tonight....all after striking out the first 2 batters.

He's not ready yet.

[FlyerFanatic]

june swoon coming up right on cue.

[texasdave]

with the bullpen problems being a constant, the change (for the worse) lately has been the offense. it really doesn't matter what hte bullpen gives up, because at last glance this lineup wasn't 'stacked' by any means.

stubbs was safe on that one. dusty SHOULD have gotten himself thrown out there, becuase this team lacks a pulse otherwise.

Reds should have one run back right now.

[captainmorgan07]

Jocketty claims they haven't even considered Weathers. After tonights performance he might need to get out his cellular telephone and ring the weathers residence.

[Kingspoint]

...

[George Foster]

can i have weathers back? first pitch swinging again...patience is gone at the plate

I think he was released by the Brewers...why would we want him? Why not bring back Danny Graves?? It's the same thing. They are both DONE.

[FlyerFanatic]

I think he was released by the Brewers...why would we want him? Why not bring back Danny Graves?? It's the same thing. They are both DONE.

being sarcastic. our bullpen sucks, at this point get anyone, i mean someone who can throw strikes. do we always have to walk people on?

[COM2010]

a song comes to mind, with the words "slip slid'n away" ...

[redsfan_12]

great inning!!

[COM2010]

great inning!!

traitor. :D

[arkimadee]

what did Votto do? i missed it

[texasdave]

Flied to center.

[Reds]

fly out to left field.

the center fielder gets every pop up in the outfield. i swear.

[COM2010]

Votto's average down to .308

[texasdave]

Dusty got his five pitchers in, so it was a good day for the Reds' manager.

[arkimadee]

You know honestly the only gripe I have about the day is the offense.. 3 runs in an 8 inning span is not bad..

[captainmorgan07]

Del Rosario has the making of being a good reliever, much rather see him than masset quite frankly.

[COM2010]

they may just send Masset down anyway after tonight's debacle. maybe they should just go for some extra pop off the bench. Shorten the bullpen. Eliminate the pitcher slot in the lineup. :D

[COM2010]

how does that fat guy seem to get all those hits?

[Griffey012]

dusty conceded the game when he took rhodes out and put massett in. ridiculous. this bullpen is terrible

Well he gets blasted for over using Rhodes, blasted for bringing him into a 1 run games, blasted for taking him out after 2 hitter.

Dusty is playing poker and the other players know exactly what he has in his hand. He cannot win right now, no matter the combination.

[George Foster]

being sarcastic. our bullpen sucks, at this point get anyone, i mean someone who can throw strikes. do we always have to walk people on?

If the front office is serious about this season, they will bring up Maloney, Wood, Chapman, etc. and put THEM in the bull pen. The FUTURE IS NOW. They have the rest of their careers to be converted back to starters.

[TC81190]

I don't know that Masset can be sent down.

[captainmorgan07]

Nibble Nibble Nibble is the theme of this bullpen except for arthur rhodes.

[COM2010]

I don't know that Masset can be sent down.

If he can't, release him. Do whatever is needed to not bring that guy in unless there is a 5-run lead. He's not contending team material.

[FlyerFanatic]

masset cant be sent down hes out of options according to sheldon

[Mutaman]

Is this pitching staff better than when Dick Pole was running things? Is it even as good?

[Kingspoint]

Is this pitching staff better than when Dick Pole was running things? Is it even as good?

It's better.

[George Foster]

masset cant be sent down hes out of options according to sheldon

put him on the 15 day DL....try and trade him.

[COM2010]

The rotation is better, but not the bullpen.

[Kingspoint]

For the record, the Giants have the #1 Starting staff in the NL, and the #2 Relief Staff in the NL (#1 in Save Percentage).

[captainmorgan07]

Would be a tough luck loss for second time out for sam lecure. He may have gave up rockets all over the place but he held them to one run. Three very good starts from Sam.

[COM2010]

put him on the 15 day DL....try and trade him.

somebody would take him, if for no other reason than he can bring it to the plate.

[Mutaman]

Is there one pitcher on this team who is pitching better than he was last year? Leake doesn't count.

[Griffey012]

If he can't, release him. Do whatever is needed to not bring that guy in unless there is a 5-run lead. He's not contending team material.

Masset is not the kinda arm you release. He was just dominant last season, you have to hope he gets it figured out. If anyone else would step up, Herrera, Lincoln, Ondrusek, Del Rosario, or Fisher to this point, Masset would be down near the bottom of the totem pole.

Maybe Bailey would succeed in a Joba type role for the time being.

[COM2010]

For the record, the Giants have the #1 Starting staff in the NL, and the #2 Relief Staff in the NL.

They're that good? Well, that does make me feel better. Still.....contenders find a way around this sort of thing, they do don't they?

[texasdave]

Is there one pitcher on this team who is pitching better than he was last year? Leake doesn't count.

Rhodes.

[Kingspoint]

The rotation is better, but not the bullpen.

Agree.

[Reds]

For the record, the Giants have the #1 Starting staff in the NL, and the #2 Relief Staff in the NL.

yeah, it really puts the pressure on our staff. Sam had no problem. Rhodes was solid. The rest is a roll of the die, we are going to have to find another reliable arm if we're going to contend, looking at the big picture.

[captainmorgan07]

Is there one pitcher on this team who is pitching better than he was last year? Leake doesn't count.

I would make a case that Cueto is pitching better than he did last year. He has been much more consistent this year. Pitching more innings and becoming more pitch efficent. Numbers wise he may not be better.

[Kingspoint]

They're that good? Well, that does make me feel better. Still.....contenders find a way around this sort of thing, they do don't they?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2010-reliever-pitching.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2010-starter-pitching.shtml

[Mutaman]

Rhodes.

He was great last year and he's great again. At his age I doubt Price has taught him anything different.

[George Foster]

Is there one pitcher on this team who is pitching better than he was last year? Leake doesn't count.

What does last year have to do with anything? He was pitching games when the reds were 20 games out of 1st place. Some guys can't pitch under pressure. He is like throwing gas on a fire. Walk, Walk....BOOM!!

[redsfan_12]

Rally!!!

[Mutaman]

I would make a case that Cueto is pitching better than he did last year. He has been much more consistent this year. Pitching more innings and becoming more pitch efficent. Numbers wise he may not be better.

Did you watch last nights game? He hasn't learned a thing.

[Kingspoint]

Masset is not the kinda arm you release. He was just dominant last season, you have to hope he gets it figured out. If anyone else would step up, Herrera, Lincoln, Ondrusek, Del Rosario, or Fisher to this point, Masset would be down near the bottom of the totem pole.

Maybe Bailey would succeed in a Joba type role for the time being.

And, because the others weren't very good, Baker overused Masset (at Mid-May, both Masset and Cordero were tied at 4th in the NL in appearances). Don't know what it is now.

[texasdave]

He was great last year and he's great again. At his age I doubt Price has taught him anything different.

Are you saying he isn't pitching any better than he did last year?

[Reds]

1 out
RHP Brian Wilson would come on if anyone else reaches, likely.

[Kingspoint]

And, because the others weren't very good, Baker overused Masset (at Mid-May, both Masset and Cordero were tied at 4th in the NL in appearances). Don't know what it is now.

Masset and Cordero are currently tied for 2nd in the National League in Appearances.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2010-standard-pitching.shtml

Can you say overuse?

[COM2010]

Lance looks like he should'a been in the Gladiator movie.

[George Foster]

Did you watch last nights game? He hasn't learned a thing.

amen.....Cueto is a head case...like Masset. Major League Baseball separates the guys with talent and no brains from the guys with talent and brains.

[redsfan_12]

Del Rosario is our 3rd best out of the bullpen!! Use him instead of Mass-it

[Mutaman]

Are you saying he isn't pitching any better than he did last year?


I'm saying the pitching coach hasn't had anything to do with Rhodes being better, that nobody else has improved, and that guys like Masset and Bailey have really regressed. For all the grief Pole got around here I'm not seeing any improvement.

[TC81190]

If he can't, release him. Do whatever is needed to not bring that guy in unless there is a 5-run lead. He's not contending team material.
That would be nothing but a mistake. Yes, he has been awful this year. But he was incredible last year and a true shutdown pitcher in the late innings. You give him plenty of time to get things back on track.

But that doesn't include continuing to bring him in for close games. At this point he becomes the 11th/12th guy on the staff. If you can work out a phantom DL trip and a month long rehab assignment in the minors, fantastic. But you don't release him.

[Griffey012]

I would make a case that Cueto is pitching better than he did last year. He has been much more consistent this year. Pitching more innings and becoming more pitch efficent. Numbers wise he may not be better.

Look at Cueto's numbers at this point last season...he was in All-Star form.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/8172/gamelog;_ylt=AgAJqCWoXtxp1U4HllsKsEKFCLcF?year=200 9

74IP 2.43 ERA

[Reds]

Gomes PH numbers are good. time to send 'em higher.

[Griffey012]

That would be nothing but a mistake. Yes, he has been awful this year. But he was incredible last year and a true shutdown pitcher in the late innings. You give him plenty of time to get things back on track.

But that doesn't include continuing to bring him in for close games. At this point he becomes the 11th/12th guy on the staff. If you can work out a phantom DL trip and a month long rehab assignment in the minors, fantastic. But you don't release him.

Who do you pitch instead of him?

[captainmorgan07]

This should rightfully still be 1-0 game Gomes should be up with a chance to win the game. I refuse to blame dusty it's like russian roulette with that bullpen with anyone not named arthur rhodes.

[Griffey012]

Tomorrow when its time to go to the bullpen, they should let the players answer the phone, whoever is the first to answer gets to pitch. I bet Owings would toss some people to get to that phone.

[redsfan_12]

nice game guys

[captainmorgan07]

Note to dusty baker start using micah owings more in 7th and 8th innings.

[Reds]

Tomorrow when its time to go to the bullpen, they should let the players answer the phone, whoever is the first to answer gets to pitch. I bet Owings would toss some people to get to that phone.

Harang is pitching tomorrow. that's why we saved owings. :bang:

drop the first two of the longest homestand of the year.

[Griffey012]

Harang is pitching tomorrow. that's why we saved owings. :bang:

drop the first two of the longest homestand of the year.

Thanks for reminding me and making this loss worse.

[BUTLER REDSFAN]

The June swoon is well under way.

[Reds]

Thanks for reminding me and making this loss worse.

We have our "ace" on the hill tomorrow. no worries. :rolleyes:

But still, 7 games over .500

[FlyerFanatic]

The June swoon is well under way.

yep. might get some wins this weekend, but we go out west which is never good for us.

[COM2010]

That would be nothing but a mistake. Yes, he has been awful this year. But he was incredible last year and a true shutdown pitcher in the late innings. You give him plenty of time to get things back on track.

But that doesn't include continuing to bring him in for close games. At this point he becomes the 11th/12th guy on the staff. If you can work out a phantom DL trip and a month long rehab assignment in the minors, fantastic. But you don't release him.

It just seems like the entire dang bulllpen is the 11th/12th guy on the staff. I don't know that the line could go any further back, they're already standing against the wall. Why isn't he already on the DL with a phantom injury? I do agree with you that they should not release him.

[NeilHamburger]

These games against St. Louis and the Giants should be very eye opening for the Reds. As much as some people want this to be a 90 win team they simply aren't good enough, and simply don't have good enough players to be that.

Earlier this year most people thought this was a 75-85 win team depending on how things broke.

I still they they split in the middle of those predictions and win 80. They simply don't have the talent to be better.

[TC81190]

It just seems like the entire dang bulllpen is the 11th/12th guy on the staff. I don't know that the line could go any further back, they're already standing against the wall. Why isn't he already on the DL with a phantom injury? I do agree with you that they should not release him.
That is a problem. They are all pitching like 12th men, but I think Masset is the highest profile blow up of all of them. He's clearly got talent in the arm, but is all kinds of broken in the head right now.

I would say pitch Del Rosario a little more, he's looked good. Perhaps Micah Owings. But a move to add an arm clearly needs to be made and soon.

[COM2010]

Note to dusty baker start using micah owings more in 7th and 8th innings.

I was sitting there thinking that if Gomes and Hernandez were able to get on, that the ONLY person walking to the plate should be Micah. This offense needs a jumpstart. He could do that while mopping up innings.

[TC81190]

I also think it was a huge mistake not retaining Jeremy Affeldt a couple years ago. I would feel pretty good with him at the end of the pen right now.

[COM2010]

That is a problem. They are all pitching like 12th men, but I think Masset is the highest profile blow up of all of them. He's clearly got talent in the arm, but is all kinds of broken in the head right now.

I would say pitch Del Rosario a little more, he's looked good. Perhaps Micah Owings. But a move to add an arm clearly needs to be made and soon.

And that won't happen because of the whole "do we spend more money" versus "which of the guys coming off the DL can we stick in the pen?" thing. Mark my words, NONE of those pitchers coming off the DL (or rehabbing) will jump back into the rotation. I'll eat crow if they do. The rotation is FAR from being the problem of this team, and I never though I'd see the day when I'd think that (after the last decade). :D

[NeilHamburger]

yep. might get some wins this weekend, but we go out west which is never good for us.

Yep. 3-6 in their last 9. I predict they're under .500 after the Rockies series after the all star break.

[TC81190]

And that won't happen because of the whole "do we spend more money" versus "which of the guys coming off the DL can we stick in the pen?" thing. Mark my words, NONE of those pitchers coming off the DL (or rehabbing) will jump back into the rotation. I'll eat crow if they do. The rotation is FAR from being the problem of this team, and I never though I'd see the day when I'd think that (after the last decade). :D
I think it would be a bit early to send Bailey to the pen, but yeah, Volquez will likely spend any part of 2010 that he spends pitching in the bullpen. He could be a shot in the arm, but I don't think it would be quite enough. I think at least one arm if not two needs to be added, to push some of the lesser arms off the roster (Looking at Ondrusek and Herrera.) Not to mention a turnaround from Cordero and Masset.