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View Full Version : WHAT....A....GAME! Go REDLEGS!!!



bgwilly31
06-10-2010, 04:06 PM
Okay that has to be the best reds game ive watched all season.

The giants were hitting the cover off the ball and we kept on fighting.

Just an absolute incredible win. :phillips:

Vottomatic
06-10-2010, 04:07 PM
Yeah, BP was da man today.

1990REDS
06-10-2010, 04:08 PM
Brandon Phillips was absoulutely phenominal today!!! great win, really showed a lot of heart.

bgwilly31
06-10-2010, 04:08 PM
And just to add a little sweetness to the victory. Anybody watching the game on MLB network can agree the Giants announcers were just terrible.

heres copy and pasted of what i explained in the game thread.


To explain more about the giant announcers.

They are true homers. Could be the worst ive heard ever.

They spent the first two innings argueing balls and strikes against the giants.

Literally two innings of chit chat about balls and strikes and the strike zone of this umpire and how this umpire is known to favor home teams. And so on and so on.

They didnt express how unbelievably GREAT the two double plays were. Instead they just acted pissed off about them and acted somewhat as if we were lucky to get them.

Theres been countless things. BP Was up and this game should be tied becuase of this. The 100mph pitcher Balked like no other. He didnt come to a pause at all. It was obvious as can be. On phillips first strike with heisy on first. BP turned to the umpire and was complaining about it. because heisy should have been on 2nd and scored when BP got his hit the next pitch. The announcers were wondering what BP was complaining about. And then made fun of him for complaining about the called strike.

Theres more but thats all i can think of for now.


I loved winning that one. And we really needed that coming into this series against KC. We need to make some ground with the Dodgers coming up next week.

davereds24
06-10-2010, 04:09 PM
:beerme:

Griffey012
06-10-2010, 04:12 PM
Wow, just wow. I was listening to MLB AT-Bat while at work, but had to leave in the middle of the top of the 8th. And I come home to this pleasant surprise. Can't wait to read the game thread and what not for the last few innings.

Absolutely great victory! Roll with the momentum, I'd rather take the last 2 than the first 2.

bgwilly31
06-10-2010, 04:13 PM
Man that was a good one. I cant get over how sweet that game was.

Incredible defense. (Janish and Phillips should make every top ten list with todays double play balls) I would argue Janish's DP should make the top ten plays of the year list. It was that good.

Great come back and heart.

Pitching struggled, Sir arthur Rhodes and MR. Co Co come in and shut them down.

That game had everything. Except for a homerun.

Maker_84
06-10-2010, 04:15 PM
this team may actually not fall off in June!!

OesterPoster
06-10-2010, 04:16 PM
Awesome win...plus the Cards signed Suppan for their rotation today. The majority of their fans are up in arms over that one. I don't think Duncan can even save Suppan this year.

texasdave
06-10-2010, 04:17 PM
Enerio Del Rosario pitched well. He got the initial double play that went through the legs of Rolen and then came back and got another one.

texasdave
06-10-2010, 04:20 PM
Janish has problems with the stick, but there is no way he shouldn't be used as a defensive replacement a lot more often than he is. He made some sick plays in the field to keep the game winnable.

nemesis
06-10-2010, 04:26 PM
Let's be honest, had Janish not started today, they would have lost. Even if him and Cabrera had been a wash at the plate Phillips would have been batting second and it could have adjusted his at bats. Also he made 3 plays that Cabrera wouldn't have. Janish is the best defender at SS in the NL. Easily.

Redlegs_87
06-10-2010, 04:30 PM
What was the pitcher and jawing at Votto for?

bgwilly31
06-10-2010, 04:36 PM
We couldnt ever figure that out.

Im thinking Votto may have said something to him. But Votto kind of mis uinderstood the situation because later in the debacle they showed votto saying My bad.

The dumb as can be Giant announcers sure didnt catch on. And there was nothing about the play that made you think that would start a fight.

It was pretty weird.

bgwilly31
06-10-2010, 04:37 PM
Let's be honest, had Janish not started today, they would have lost. Even if him and Cabrera had been a wash at the plate Phillips would have been batting second and it could have adjusted his at bats. Also he made 3 plays that Cabrera wouldn't have. Janish is the best defender at SS in the NL. Easily.

If janish isnt playing you could easily say the giants have 8 runs instead of 6. Without that DP the gaints score at least two more runs there.

However Janish looked Absolutely terrible at the plate.

Late in the game defensive situations maybe.

13 in hall
06-10-2010, 04:42 PM
This game should show everyone that this team is not 2006!! In the past this is exactly the type of game the Reds would loose yet this year they keep finding ways to win them. Now lets take care of the Royals.

Redeye fly
06-10-2010, 04:49 PM
If janish isnt playing you could easily say the giants have 8 runs instead of 6. Without that DP the gaints score at least two more runs there.

However Janish looked Absolutely terrible at the plate.

Late in the game defensive situations maybe.

The one thing I will agree with, or can agree with if someone wants to bring up the point though is a lack of playing time can make someone look absolutely terrible at the plate.

Exhibit A this year would be Miguel Cairo. He went from "get him off the team he's terrible" to "he did a good job filling in for Joey Votto" once he saw some regular AB's. Granted, all of us knew it wasn't sustainable. But it still happened for that stretch.

I'm not advocating Janish being the every day SS, as I do like Cabrera's bat. I'm not in love with Cabrera's bat, but obviously he's better than what we've had for the past few years from that standpoint. I just don't know that Janish looking absolutely terrible at the plate today is indicative of anything. Because after all, if a player past his prime who was never a good hitter can have a nice little run, there's no reason a player who also may never be a good hitter but who has some upside still can not do the same.

1990REDS
06-10-2010, 04:55 PM
man, how good would janish be if he was just an OK hitter.

Kingspoint
06-10-2010, 04:58 PM
Brandon Phillips was absoulutely phenominal today!!! great win, really showed a lot of heart.

He made me think that $12M is chump change when it comes to picking up his option next season and having Valaika wait one more year. To have Phillips for one more run in 2011 seems like a good idea.

One way to get Management to consider picking up that option is to put 90,000 fans in the seats this weekend against the Royals. Now that school is out and the REDS are in first, there's no reason for that not to happen. 100,000 would be better. Let's hope for good weather.

Kingspoint
06-10-2010, 04:59 PM
The one thing I will agree with, or can agree with if someone wants to bring up the point though is a lack of playing time can make someone look absolutely terrible at the plate.

Exhibit A this year would be Miguel Cairo. He went from "get him off the team he's terrible" to "he did a good job filling in for Joey Votto" once he saw some regular AB's. Granted, all of us knew it wasn't sustainable. But it still happened for that stretch.

I'm not advocating Janish being the every day SS, as I do like Cabrera's bat. I'm not in love with Cabrera's bat, but obviously he's better than what we've had for the past few years from that standpoint. I just don't know that Janish looking absolutely terrible at the plate today is indicative of anything. Because after all, if a player past his prime who was never a good hitter can have a nice little run, there's no reason a player who also may never be a good hitter but who has some upside still can not do the same.

:thumbup:

Mr Larkin
06-10-2010, 05:02 PM
The one thing I will agree with, or can agree with if someone wants to bring up the point though is a lack of playing time can make someone look absolutely terrible at the plate.

Exhibit A this year would be Miguel Cairo. He went from "get him off the team he's terrible" to "he did a good job filling in for Joey Votto" once he saw some regular AB's. Granted, all of us knew it wasn't sustainable. But it still happened for that stretch.

I'm not advocating Janish being the every day SS, as I do like Cabrera's bat. I'm not in love with Cabrera's bat, but obviously he's better than what we've had for the past few years from that standpoint. I just don't know that Janish looking absolutely terrible at the plate today is indicative of anything. Because after all, if a player past his prime who was never a good hitter can have a nice little run, there's no reason a player who also may never be a good hitter but who has some upside still can not do the same.

If I was the manager of a major league team I would want a player who has shown through his career that he can handle the bat. OCab has done that. He is dependable with the bat.

I like having great glove guys, but they are not going to be the everyday players if they are glove only. MLB history is full of guys who spent their careers as great defensive bench players, but rarely do you have a great glove/no bat player play every day.

Ozzie Smith, for example, was a great defensive player but he would not have had the same career if he could not swing the bat at a decent clip. Until PJ can show that he can swing at least an average bat he will ride the pine. Period.

xavr1
06-10-2010, 05:03 PM
I was at the game today and, in the seventh inning, I almost subconsciously leaned over and told my buddy "For some reason, I am confident we are gonna win this game." I honestly cant think of another year where I actually thought we were gonna win when we were down late in a game. Last couple years, I expected to lose even when we had a small lead.

AccordinglyReds
06-10-2010, 05:03 PM
Went to the game today with a friend. Great game! :) Attendance was just over 19k...much more than I expected!

texasdave
06-10-2010, 05:08 PM
If I was the manager of a major league team I would want a player who has shown through his career that he can handle the bat. OCab has done that. He is dependable with the bat.

I like having great glove guys, but they are not going to be the everyday players if they are glove only. MLB history is full of guys who spent their careers as great defensive bench players, but rarely do you have a great glove/no bat player play every day.

Ozzie Smith, for example, was a great defensive player but he would not have had the same career if he could not swing the bat at a decent clip. Until PJ can show that he can swing at least an average bat he will ride the pine. Period.

And that would be a mistake. Period. A run saved is just as important as a run knocked in. Besides, it is not like OCab is tearing the cover off of the ball. His OPS is .679. That is what we call below average.

bgwilly31
06-10-2010, 05:08 PM
The one thing I will agree with, or can agree with if someone wants to bring up the point though is a lack of playing time can make someone look absolutely terrible at the plate.

Exhibit A this year would be Miguel Cairo. He went from "get him off the team he's terrible" to "he did a good job filling in for Joey Votto" once he saw some regular AB's. Granted, all of us knew it wasn't sustainable. But it still happened for that stretch.

I'm not advocating Janish being the every day SS, as I do like Cabrera's bat. I'm not in love with Cabrera's bat, but obviously he's better than what we've had for the past few years from that standpoint. I just don't know that Janish looking absolutely terrible at the plate today is indicative of anything. Because after all, if a player past his prime who was never a good hitter can have a nice little run, there's no reason a player who also may never be a good hitter but who has some upside still can not do the same.

Well given that was the first time we saw cairo with regular AB's as a red.

We've seen janish get regular AB's as a red and nothing changes. He has stayed consistent with being pretty bad at the plate.

FlyerFanatic
06-10-2010, 05:09 PM
should be a ton there on saturday, bobblehead night.

Redeye fly
06-10-2010, 05:20 PM
Well given that was the first time we saw cairo with regular AB's as a red.

We've seen janish get regular AB's as a red and nothing changes. He has stayed consistent with being pretty bad at the plate.

Well from most reports he looked great at the plate this spring. I know that was against guys who weren't in top form yet or weren't ready for the majors.

But my point was Janish is at the age where he can still get better. Cairo is not.

I know there's been points during John McDonald's career, he of the .595 lifetime OPS, where both scouts and stat heads have believed his defense was so superior at a position as important as SS that a team could live with his weak bat in the lineup. I believe there was a guy at Baseball Prospectus saying that in 2008 when McDonald hit .210-.255-.269

nemesis
06-10-2010, 08:05 PM
Janish has short comings at the plate without a doubt. Letting him sit for almost 2 weeks without an AB does nothing to help a players timing. Unless your an elite player you need repetition to improve. Even with his "weak" showing today which involved a nice 10 pitch AB that got the relievers pitch count up, a walk and a all out hustle on a bad bunt. Not counting the 3 DP's and that wicked stab behind third base and missed the out by a step... He had an ok game for someone who had heard nothing but rumors of the field lately.

He has 7 BB's in 35 AB's vs 3 K's ... 4 XBH out of 10 in just 35 AB's and a small sample size .862 OPS.

If Cabrera's defense is acceptable with a .650 OPS why is it that Janish, who is second to none as a SS defensively isn't acceptable with a .600? His OBP last year was .301. Cabrera's is .305. I would bet my house given an everyday job Janish could OBP .325 and OPS .650... With plus plus defense that would make him worth more than Cabrera.

bgwilly31
06-10-2010, 08:31 PM
should be a ton there on saturday, bobblehead night.

Im getting my bobblehead.


Diamond seats for me baby!

Redeye fly
06-10-2010, 10:28 PM
Janish has short comings at the plate without a doubt. Letting him sit for almost 2 weeks without an AB does nothing to help a players timing. Unless your an elite player you need repetition to improve. Even with his "weak" showing today which involved a nice 10 pitch AB that got the relievers pitch count up, a walk and a all out hustle on a bad bunt. Not counting the 3 DP's and that wicked stab behind third base and missed the out by a step... He had an ok game for someone who had heard nothing but rumors of the field lately.

He has 7 BB's in 35 AB's vs 3 K's ... 4 XBH out of 10 in just 35 AB's and a small sample size .862 OPS.

If Cabrera's defense is acceptable with a .650 OPS why is it that Janish, who is second to none as a SS defensively isn't acceptable with a .600? His OBP last year was .301. Cabrera's is .305. I would bet my house given an everyday job Janish could OBP .325 and OPS .650... With plus plus defense that would make him worth more than Cabrera.

Janish might indeed be a player who would just need a few more singles to find holes to have very good value. He does generally do a better job of working the count, seeing pitches, and drawing walks than Cabrera, so I wouldn't say you're incorrect on that... at least in theory.

lidspinner
06-10-2010, 11:24 PM
I see no reason that PaulJ is not the SS of this team next year.....if he is not then something is not right...again, as stated above, he is going to OPS what OC does....so if they are one in the same then why not take the guy who is a GG? Janish does need some seasoning, he is not a full time guy just yet but he is getting there....

Remember, going into this year, he thought he was going to be the SS and then the Reds go and get OC....and Paul has been nothing but respectful going about his business. He has taken it very well and is sitting there waiting his turn and i truly hope the Reds give it to him next year.

bgwilly31
06-11-2010, 11:07 AM
I see no reason that PaulJ is not the SS of this team next year.....if he is not then something is not right...again, as stated above, he is going to OPS what OC does....so if they are one in the same then why not take the guy who is a GG? Janish does need some seasoning, he is not a full time guy just yet but he is getting there....

Remember, going into this year, he thought he was going to be the SS and then the Reds go and get OC....and Paul has been nothing but respectful going about his business. He has taken it very well and is sitting there waiting his turn and i truly hope the Reds give it to him next year.


You act as if he got no chance to prove himself.

He started for a good 15games+ Straight last year. Im not sure of the exact stat. But i know it was plenty of time to prove yourself you can play.

Why do you think the reds deemed it neccesary to go out in FA and find a legit SS?

Caveman Techie
06-11-2010, 11:20 AM
I see no reason that PaulJ is not the SS of this team next year.....if he is not then something is not right...again, as stated above, he is going to OPS what OC does....so if they are one in the same then why not take the guy who is a GG? Janish does need some seasoning, he is not a full time guy just yet but he is getting there....

Remember, going into this year, he thought he was going to be the SS and then the Reds go and get OC....and Paul has been nothing but respectful going about his business. He has taken it very well and is sitting there waiting his turn and i truly hope the Reds give it to him next year.

Janish certainly has had a couple of good games this year. And I think those should lead to some more playing time, however I don't think he is ready to be an everyday shortstop at the MLB level. His career OPS is only .609 and that is after he put up an ops of .666 in two seasons at AAA.

lidspinner
06-11-2010, 12:06 PM
You act as if he got no chance to prove himself.

He started for a good 15games+ Straight last year. Im not sure of the exact stat. But i know it was plenty of time to prove yourself you can play.

Why do you think the reds deemed it neccesary to go out in FA and find a legit SS?


your saying 15 games straight is enough of a chance to prove himself? Yes he did prove he is not going to hit .300 but he also proved he is better than anything we have had with the glove these last 10 years. All I am saying is with Ocab not playing defense the way he should, why is Janish not being groomed to at least TRY and take over next year. I have bit my tongue so many times this year watching OCab let balls go by his glove side with no attempt at a dive or try to stop the ball....the guy is getting long in the tooth for a SS.....So lets at least get Paul some late inning defensive innings and maybe an AB or 2.


Its not an argument or a debate...all I am getting at is let Paul get some reps in to see what we have in him. If we are not going to use him then let him to get to the minors and play everyday to be bait. He is doing nothing for us at this point, iff this is how Dusty is going to use him. we shall see, time will tell.

bgwilly31
06-11-2010, 02:52 PM
your saying 15 games straight is enough of a chance to prove himself? Yes he did prove he is not going to hit .300 but he also proved he is better than anything we have had with the glove these last 10 years. All I am saying is with Ocab not playing defense the way he should, why is Janish not being groomed to at least TRY and take over next year. I have bit my tongue so many times this year watching OCab let balls go by his glove side with no attempt at a dive or try to stop the ball....the guy is getting long in the tooth for a SS.....So lets at least get Paul some late inning defensive innings and maybe an AB or 2.


Its not an argument or a debate...all I am getting at is let Paul get some reps in to see what we have in him. If we are not going to use him then let him to get to the minors and play everyday to be bait. He is doing nothing for us at this point, iff this is how Dusty is going to use him. we shall see, time will tell.

Well you changed your opinion completely. You went from he should be a starter to just get him some reps.

Yes dusty should probably bring him in late inning defensive strategies.

However i dont share your centiment that OCab is not playing shortstop well for us. I think he does just fine. And his 4 for 5 with 2 doubles and 3 Reebies puts him well above PJ.

1990REDS
06-11-2010, 05:04 PM
Well you changed your opinion completely. You went from he should be a starter to just get him some reps.

Yes dusty should probably bring him in late inning defensive strategies.

However i dont share your centiment that OCab is not playing shortstop well for us. I think he does just fine. And his 4 for 5 with 2 doubles and 3 Reebies puts him well above PJ.

Completely agree:thumbup: Sometimes i read this board and you would think Ocab has no business on the field the way some people talk about him. IMO hes one of the reasons were having the type of year we are. Hes been big in big spots all year.

nemesis
06-11-2010, 06:20 PM
You act as if he got no chance to prove himself.

He started for a good 15games+ Straight last year. Im not sure of the exact stat. But i know it was plenty of time to prove yourself you can play.

Why do you think the reds deemed it neccesary to go out in FA and find a legit SS?

Yeah but last year was technically Janish's rookie year. His first taste of real ML action. He OPSed around .640 as a starter last year. Most in part to his 23 BB's in 230 AB's. Keep in mind Mariano Duncan was a guy who couldn't hit a lick then one day just got it. I am not saying Janish is that guy, but I think a .650 to .700 OPS isn't outta expectations for him year in and out. Has anyone noticed he looked beefed up a touch this year? Guy worked hard in the offseason to become the teams everyday shortstop and got a bit of a raw deal. Had a great spring at the plate too. Maybe he is the guy next year, but he needs to get more playing time this year.

Cabrera should be the everyday shortstop. But He is 35 and already a step slow. Dusty keeps playing him like this, he will wear down and be two steps slow by August. Just play Janish every fifth day and let him have the late innings of close games in which they lead. His defense couldn't hurt.