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Screwball
06-12-2010, 09:58 PM
Bruce rips a single into left off a LHP.

Runners on 1st and 2nd for Stubbs with 1 out.

VR
06-12-2010, 09:59 PM
Not sure I follow you here...

"Fixing that flat tire made the car run well. Therefore we should fix all the tires, with different sizes, whether they need it or not."

I think it's more akin to "we've got one tire running low, but we're in 1st, let's keep driving"


Change the tire while the goings good. Replacing a .650 opser at the top of the lineup with an 840 opser would only make this lineup more dangerous.

bucksfan2
06-12-2010, 09:59 PM
Stubbs legs out a double play ball.

I don't know if he will ever be doubled up.

RedsMan3203
06-12-2010, 09:59 PM
You can't double up Stubbs...

VR
06-12-2010, 10:00 PM
Stubbs legs out a double play ball.

I don't know if he will ever be doubled up.

The Royals infielders thought they had an easy dp. Stubbs is ridiculous.

Screwball
06-12-2010, 10:00 PM
I think it's more akin to "we've got one tire running low, but we're in 1st, let's keep driving"


Change the tire while the goings good. Replacing a .650 opser at the top of the lineup with an 840 opser would only make this lineup more dangerous.

Makes sense. But clearly, with Dusty, that'll never happen. And, as I pointed out, the Reds scoring runs is incredibly low on the priority list.

Spring~Fields
06-12-2010, 10:01 PM
I think it's more akin to "we've got one tire running low, but we're in 1st, let's keep driving"


Change the tire while the goings good. Replacing a .650 opser at the top of the lineup with an 840 opser would only make this lineup more dangerous.

:thumbup:

VR
06-12-2010, 10:01 PM
Makes sense. But clearly, with Dusty, that'll never happen. And, as I pointed out, the Reds scoring runs is incredibly low on the priority list.

No rush to do it now....but I'd like to see them set up the stretch run with it.

bucksfan2
06-12-2010, 10:01 PM
The Royals infielders thought they had an easy dp. Stubbs is ridiculous.

Should give him the Willy Mays Hays treatment. If he pops one up he has to do pushups.

Guys hits a ground ball and has a good chance of beating it out.

Screwball
06-12-2010, 10:02 PM
Reds up 11-5 after 8 full.

RedsMan3203
06-12-2010, 10:02 PM
Cards now down 7-2 in the 7th.

edabbs44
06-12-2010, 10:03 PM
I think it's more akin to "we've got one tire running low, but we're in 1st, let's keep driving"


Change the tire while the goings good. Replacing a .650 opser at the top of the lineup with an 840 opser would only make this lineup more dangerous.

Bordering on "the team is playing pretty well and we have to invent things to complain about".

Raisor
06-12-2010, 10:03 PM
Not sure I follow you here...

"Fixing that flat tire made the car run well. Therefore we should fix all the tires, with different sizes, whether they need it or not."

except I'm arguing they do need to fix it. Bruce needs more PA's, OCab needs to not get so many.

Just because they're good doesn't mean they can't be gooder. (That's right, I said gooder)

edabbs44
06-12-2010, 10:03 PM
Cards now down 7-2 in the 7th.

Yeah boy.

WVRedsFan
06-12-2010, 10:04 PM
Heavy rain again. TV gone. Who's pitching the 9th?

RedsMan3203
06-12-2010, 10:04 PM
Heavy rain again. TV gone. Who's pitching the 9th?

Masst...

1st pitch, ground out to 2nd.

Spring~Fields
06-12-2010, 10:05 PM
Heavy rain again. TV gone. Who's pitching the 9th?

I think that Masset is in the game.

edabbs44
06-12-2010, 10:05 PM
except I'm arguing they do need to fix it. Bruce needs more PA's, OCab needs to not get so many.

Just because they're good doesn't mean they can't be gooder. (That's right, I said gooder)

Bruce has 4 .300 hitters batting in front of him. I'd rather have him there to knock them in than Cabrera, Hernandez or Stubbs.

Raisor
06-12-2010, 10:06 PM
Makes sense. But clearly, with Dusty, that'll never happen. And, as I pointed out, the Reds scoring runs is incredibly low on the priority list.

scoring more runs is the easiest way that this team has to improve at this point, barring a trade.

Screwball
06-12-2010, 10:06 PM
except I'm arguing they do need to fix it. Bruce needs more PA's, OCab needs to not get so many.

Just because they're good doesn't mean they can't be gooder. (That's right, I said gooder)

I mean, I understand what you're saying, but this team is near the top in just about every imporatant offensive category. Arguing they "need to fix it" just doesn't carry much water because you think they could be slightly gooder.

However, I am taken aback by gooder. I haven't thrown that down since my days in Jersey...

RedsMan3203
06-12-2010, 10:07 PM
Fly out to left.

VR
06-12-2010, 10:07 PM
Bruce has 4 .300 hitters batting in front of him. I'd rather have him there to knock them in than Cabrera, Hernandez or Stubbs.

I'd rather have .300 hitters hitting behind Jay...as he's on base 20% more than OCab.

RedsMan3203
06-12-2010, 10:07 PM
Line drive single to center....

Screwball
06-12-2010, 10:08 PM
Billy the Butler singles to center.

Screwball
06-12-2010, 10:08 PM
Masset to face Getz. Talk about an overmatch...

edabbs44
06-12-2010, 10:08 PM
I'd rather have .300 hitters hitting behind Jay...as he's on base 20% more than OCab.

.200 points higher?

RedsMan3203
06-12-2010, 10:09 PM
Fly out to left.

Reds win 11-5 :jump:

Lets get them tomorrow

VR
06-12-2010, 10:09 PM
.200 points higher?

OCab's OBP is 300, Jay's is 360. That's 20%.

bucksfan2
06-12-2010, 10:09 PM
Good win for the Redlegs.

Now got get Grenkie

Screwball
06-12-2010, 10:09 PM
Reds win this in emphatic fashion.

11-5 Good Guys.

WVRedsFan
06-12-2010, 10:09 PM
Finally, Nick looks like Nick. Good win and hopefully we regain that game in the standings we lost last night!

VR
06-12-2010, 10:10 PM
Reds looking to pick up a game on the division. Cards losing big, Cubs lost, Brew Crew about to lose.

Spring~Fields
06-12-2010, 10:10 PM
Reds win this in emphatic fashion.

11-5 Good Guys.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Gallen5862
06-12-2010, 10:10 PM
"And This One Belongs To The First Place Reds."

Spring~Fields
06-12-2010, 10:11 PM
Reds looking to pick up a game on the division. Cards losing big, Cubs lost, Brew Crew about to lose.

Has the making of a beautiful evening. :)

Screwball
06-12-2010, 10:12 PM
OCab's OBP is 300, Jay's is 360. That's 20%.

Again, I get tired of you bringing facts to the argument. ;)

However, if I'm the manager and I'm looking to improve the team, I look at the rotation first, bullpen a close second, and who's leading off a distant third.

The batting lineup just isn't an impact issue concerning whether this team contends or does not contend.

VR
06-12-2010, 10:14 PM
Again, I get tired of you bringing facts to the argument. ;)

However, if I'm the manager and I'm looking to improve the team, I look at the rotation first, bullpen a close second, and who's leading off a distant third.

The batting lineup just isn't an impact issue concerning whether this team contends or does not contend.

Reality is, there just aren't too many huge holes in the 2010 Reds. This, is a good thing. :beerme:

edabbs44
06-12-2010, 10:15 PM
OCab's OBP is 300, Jay's is 360. That's 20%.

The team is playing well, there is no need to change anything. The team is averaging over 5.5 runs per game over the last 5 weeks or so. Leave the lineup be.

Screwball
06-12-2010, 10:18 PM
Reality is, there just aren't too many huge holes in the 2010 Reds. This, is a good thing. :beerme:

Ain't that the truth. And while we complain daily about our holes (which are glaring), our strengths are equally as glaring, if not more so. This team is tough to beat, no matter what some posters say after losses.

They'll be in it 'til the end, IMO.

VR
06-12-2010, 10:21 PM
The team is playing well, there is no need to change anything. The team is averaging over 5.5 runs per game over the last 5 weeks or so. Leave the lineup be.

And they could be averaging 6.5? At what point do you change out Ocab? He's 16-70, w/ 2 walks over the last 17 games.

I don't believe in good luck charms.

CrackerJack
06-12-2010, 10:21 PM
Im loving listening to Cowboy do TV. He is great doing to color on TV.

I bet he was hungry and talked about Italian Fest at some point....

kaldaniels
06-12-2010, 10:22 PM
Cueto is 6-1. Interesting.

VR
06-12-2010, 10:22 PM
They'll be in it 'til the end, IMO.

Very prophetic....I'm w/ you.

kaldaniels
06-12-2010, 10:26 PM
And they could be averaging 6.5? At what point do you change out Ocab? He's 16-70, w/ 2 walks over the last 17 games.

I don't believe in good luck charms.

I believe in players being affected good or bad by a lineup change. See Stubbs. Don't mess with success.

edabbs44
06-12-2010, 10:33 PM
And they could be averaging 6.5? At what point do you change out Ocab? He's 16-70, w/ 2 walks over the last 17 games.

I don't believe in good luck charms.

Bruce's OBP after the first 17 games was .273. If he has another stretch like that after you move him up, what do you do?

The point to make changes is if the offense starts to struggle. Making changes right now makes zero sense.

VR
06-12-2010, 10:40 PM
Bruce's OBP after the first 17 games was .273. If he has another stretch like that after you move him up, what do you do?

The point to make changes is if the offense starts to struggle. Making changes right now makes zero sense.

Unless you are trying to get the full potential out of the offense....not just contentment compared to past years. Players go through spurts...but over the long haul Bruce will put up far superior #'s to OCab.

Good teams get better by being proactive, not reactive.

edabbs44
06-12-2010, 10:49 PM
Unless you are trying to get the full potential out of the offense....not just contentment compared to past years. Players go through spurts...but over the long haul Bruce will put up far superior #'s to OCab.

Good teams get better by being proactive, not reactive.

I'm not content because Cabrera is better than the past, I'm content because the offense is doing just fine right now.

Cincy has been scoring at a 900 run per season clip over the last 5 weeks or so. I'm down with that.

VR
06-12-2010, 10:52 PM
I'm not content because Cabrera is better than the past, I'm content because the offense is doing just fine right now.

Cincy has been scoring at a 900 run per season clip over the last 5 weeks or so. I'm down with that.

Super. And they are scoring more runs than they are giving up, are we leaving the pitching the same as well? They are in 1st after all as well.

Redsfan320
06-12-2010, 10:52 PM
What dooo you know... Reds win!

320

edabbs44
06-12-2010, 10:59 PM
Super. And they are scoring more runs than they are giving up, are we leaving the pitching the same as well? They are in 1st after all as well.

Your suggestion would also result in Bruce being removed from a spot in the order where he is doing just fine. Cutting Masset, for example, doesn't affect the pitching staff except for adding whoever replaces him. 2 different situations.

These guys aren't members of a fantasy team. You can't just expect to shuffle them around and get that same performance no matter where they are in the lineup.

VR
06-12-2010, 11:10 PM
Your suggestion would also result in Bruce being removed from a spot in the order where he is doing just fine. Cutting Masset, for example, doesn't affect the pitching staff except for adding whoever replaces him. 2 different situations.

These guys aren't members of a fantasy team. You can't just expect to shuffle them around and get that same performance no matter where they are in the lineup.

The question is simple. Who would you rather have at the top of the lineup...Bruce or Cabrera.

Moving Cabrera to the top of the lineup was the 5th most important variable in the lineup shift. Moving Phillips to #2, Rolen to #4, Cabrera OUT of #2, and Stubbs OUT of leadoff were what has impacted the shift in offensive production. Cabrera can't be statistically linked to that in ANY way, accept as a 4 leaf clover.

edabbs44
06-12-2010, 11:11 PM
The question is simple. Who would you rather have at the top of the lineup...Bruce or Cabrera.

Moving Cabrera to the top of the lineup was the 5th most important variable in the lineup shift. Moving Phillips to #2, Rolen to #4, Cabrera OUT of #2, and Stubbs OUT of leadoff were what has impacted the shift in offensive production. Cabrera can't be statistically linked to that in ANY way, accept as a 4 leaf clover.

Cabrera, I'd rather have Bruce hitting 5/6.

VR
06-12-2010, 11:14 PM
Cabrera, I'd rather have Bruce hitting 5/6.

And that's ok. :thumbup:

RedsMan3203
06-12-2010, 11:14 PM
Cards Lost.... Reds back up 1.5 games.

WebScorpion
06-12-2010, 11:33 PM
And they could be averaging 6.5? At what point do you change out Ocab? He's 16-70, w/ 2 walks over the last 17 games.

I don't believe in good luck charms.
At some point I'd redo the 'speedy Stubbs leads off' experiment. He currently is OPSing .319 to OCab's .297, but I think he'll get better as he learns the pitchers...when the improvement is a little more obvious I'd give him another shot. I'd tell the kid 'Relax, you know you can hit, just do your thing like you've been doing in the #7 hole." If he learns to settle down, we've got a great leadoff hitter and OCab will be fine in the #7 spot. Hopefully, Bruce will hit in one of the 3,4, or 5 slots someday, but right now Votto, Rolen, and Gomes are the better hitters.

VR
06-12-2010, 11:36 PM
At some point I'd redo the 'speedy Stubbs leads off' experiment. He currently is OPSing .319 to OCab's .297, but I think he'll get better as he learns the pitchers...when the improvement is a little more obvious I'd give him another shot. I'd tell the kid 'Relax, you know you can hit, just do your thing like you've been doing in the #7 hole." If he learns to settle down, we've got a great leadoff hitter and OCab will be fine in the #7 spot. Hopefully, Bruce will hit in one of the 3,4, or 5 slots someday, but right now Votto, Rolen, and Gomes are the better hitters.

Big picture/ longer term...you are spot on. Well done.

Big Klu
06-13-2010, 12:21 AM
Congratulations to Brandon Phillips, who ties Paul O'Neill for 25th place on the Reds' all-time home run list!


Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Adam Dunn - 270
5. Ted Kluszewski - 251
6. George Foster - 244
7. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 210
8. Eric Davis - 203
9. Barry Larkin - 198
10. Vada Pinson - 186
11. Wally Post - 172
12. Gus Bell - 160
13. Joe Morgan - 152
13. Pete Rose - 152
15. Lee May - 147
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96
25. Brandon Phillips - 96

Razor Shines
06-13-2010, 03:43 AM
Why has Votto become so impatient at the plate? Just a total turnaround for him.

:confused: He walked in his first two PAs and he's walked 7 times in the last 5 games. He's in a bit of a slump right now (maybe), but he's pretty much slump proof because he still gets on base without hits.

GAC
06-13-2010, 07:10 AM
Cueto is 6-1. Interesting.

He got a gift tonight, because he sure didn't pitch worth a darn, and hasn't as of late. He should take Gomes out for a steak dinner with all the trimmings. ;)

GAC
06-13-2010, 07:11 AM
Congratulations to Brandon Phillips, who ties Paul O'Neill for 25th place on the Reds' all-time home run list!


Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Adam Dunn - 270
5. Ted Kluszewski - 251
6. George Foster - 244
7. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 210
8. Eric Davis - 203
9. Barry Larkin - 198
10. Vada Pinson - 186
11. Wally Post - 172
12. Gus Bell - 160
13. Joe Morgan - 152
13. Pete Rose - 152
15. Lee May - 147
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96
25. Brandon Phillips - 96

They traded Dunn so he wouldn't pass Bench. :D

redsmetz
06-13-2010, 08:36 AM
He got a gift tonight, because he sure didn't pitch worth a darn, and hasn't as of late. He should take Gomes out for a steak dinner with all the trimmings. ;)

He may only owe him for chopped sirloin. After all, it was Gomes' misplay that cost him two runs. Gomes owed him the second home run to out do that. [caveat - no knock on either, but while Gomes was great at the plate, he did have this miscue to allowed those runs].

toledodan
06-13-2010, 11:07 AM
Cabrera, I'd rather have Bruce hitting 5/6.

not to mention the team took off when the move was made.:thumbup: