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View Full Version : Jeff Passan's list of starting pitchers who could be available



Vottomatic
06-14-2010, 03:11 PM
Off of ORG:

1. Cliff Lee
2. Ben Sheets
3. Dan Haren
4. Roy Oswalt
5. Jeremy Guthrie
6. Ted Lilly
7. Jake Westbrook
8. Fausto Carmona

Read the article here:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...ndegrees061310

Carmona is a guy who turns 27 in December. Seems like he's finally come into his own this year considering he's pitching for a lousy team. Still 5-5 with a 3.23 ERA and .237 BAA after having a horrible year last year. Like I said, it's his 5th season in the Bigs and it's probably starting to click. He makes $5M ('10), $6.3M ('11) with club options for an undisclosed amount '12 thru '14. Catching him at the right time? With Harang and Arroyo gone, could be a good replacement. In 13 starts this year he's averaging 6 2/3 innings per start and has given up 11 less hits per total innings pitched, with 2 complete games.

Dan Haren had a rough start to the season, finishing May with a 5.35 ERA. But he is an innings eater, averaging nearly 7 innings per start. He seems to have righted the ship in 3 starts in June against 3 good hitting teams - Dodgers, Atlanta, and St. Louis, going 21 2/3 innings, while allowing 22 hits, 5 earned runs, 2 walks, and striking out 21. He's now 7-4 and has lowered his ERA to 4.61. He comes with a hefty price tag similar to Harang's and Arroyo's at $8.25M this season, $12.75M in '11 & '12, with a club option for '13. He doesn't turn 30 until September, has a career WHIP of 1.19, ERA of 3.68. and BAA of .252. He's a bulldog who will eat up innings, and put up better numbers than either Harang or Arroyo about nearly the same price. He's signed through his prime age of 33.

Westbrook turns 33 in September and is a FA at the end of the season, while currently making $11M. Has a career .278 BAA, and 4.33 ERA. Not really interested in him.

Cliff Lee walks as a FA after the season, while making $9M this season. Yankees are pursuing him heavily. Doubt the Reds could afford to sign him long term, or that he'd want to pitch in GABP. He's a lefty with awesome numbers......no need to post them.

Not really interested in Sheets $10M this year and FA next. Oakland will want too much and he's really not the same pitcher as in the past with his nearly 5.00 ERA.

Jeremy Guthrie is someone I never really considered. He's a 31 year old righthander, making $3M in an arbitration year this offseason. In his 4th year starting for Baltimore, has given up less hits than innings pitched 3 of his 4 seasons (including this one so far). Had one bad season (last one - 5.04 ERA, .281 BAA, 1.42 WHIP). Has been consistent in the other three posting ERA's under 4.00 and BAA in the .240-.250 range. Has had 10 quality starts in 13 outings, but gave up 4 runs in 2 of those other outings, and 6 in the other. Averaging 6 1/3 inning per start this season.

Ted Lilly is making $13M this season and becomes a FA next year. He will be 35 in January. Although he's only 2-5, statistically otherwise he is having one of his best seasons ever with a 2.90 ERA, .204 BAA, 1.00 WHIP, and averaging nearly 7 innings per start. Definitely would be a rent-a player. Look for the big money clubs to go after him if the Cubs are out of it at the trade deadline. They'll want to get something for him since he'll be a FA. Plus, he's a lefthander.

1990REDS
06-14-2010, 05:32 PM
Westbrook makes 11M? How did his agent pull that off:)

lidspinner
06-14-2010, 07:07 PM
give me Dan Haren, send Edinson to the Pen along with Sam L and lets go get us a playoff birth. Might have to add 1 more guy in the pen....but Haren upgrades Harang's spot from day 1 and adds to our pen.

GIDP
06-14-2010, 07:09 PM
Haren please.

DirtyBaker
06-14-2010, 09:46 PM
Lilly, Westbrook, and Sheets seem like bad contracts to take. Haren, Carmona and Guthrie could be guys that can contribute without eating up a lot of salary. I can't see Lee pitching in Cincy, but I'd love it. I assume these are for next year?

I expect Votto to sign a big deal sometime this year, and I don't know who else will be getting a large pay increase, but losing Harang and Arroyo will open up a lot of cash. More than $20M I believe.

bshall2105
06-14-2010, 09:50 PM
Does anybody know what kind of money Votto will be getting?

BLEEDS
06-14-2010, 11:54 PM
I couldn't give up enough for Haren.

However, I don't know that Walt would.

Even IF both Harang and Arroyo leave - which I don't see a high percentage (I'd keep Arroyo for next year vs. giving up his option bonus) - here are the SP candidates for 2011:

Cueto
Leake
Volquez
Bailey
Chapman
Maloney
Wood
Lecure

The top 4 are shoo-ins IMO. Not sure they want to spend the money/commitment on a $10M+ pitcher - MAYBE a one-year deal (like picking up Arroyo's option).

PEACE

-BLEEDS

BLEEDS
06-15-2010, 12:03 AM
Does anybody know what kind of money Votto will be getting?

I don't know, but they'd be smart to lock him up before Pujols signs his. IMO that is his ceiling, and Pujols already looks to be on the downslide, even if just a tad. You don't want his agent going to Arbitration over the next couple years with Pujols contract and possibly declining stats...

I'd think somewhere between Evan Longoria and Ryan Howard is in order...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

GIDP
06-15-2010, 12:49 AM
Ryan Howard got a ton because he won a MVP and rookie of the year.

Luckily for us no Red will likely ever win either of those awards ever again thanks to ESPN.

bshall2105
06-15-2010, 01:04 AM
I don't know, but they'd be smart to lock him up before Pujols signs his. IMO that is his ceiling, and Pujols already looks to be on the downslide, even if just a tad. You don't want his agent going to Arbitration over the next couple years with Pujols contract and possibly declining stats...

I'd think somewhere between Evan Longoria and Ryan Howard is in order...

PEACE

-BLEEDS

Are the Reds going to be able to afford that though? I realize we will be clearing Arroyo and Harang's contracts soon, but we still have Chapman's massive contract that is very bottom heavy. If we pay Votto than would we be able to keep the Jay Bruce and Mike Leakes of the world?

Vottomatic
06-15-2010, 09:43 AM
Votto could simply go to arbitration. They're not going to award him $15M, $20M, or $30M in arbitration. He's only in his third year.

He'd be smart to sign a 3 year deal for like $10 or $12M each year. Otherwise they will let him go to arbitration.

bounty37h
06-15-2010, 11:29 AM
Ryan Howard got a ton because he won a MVP and rookie of the year.

Luckily for us no Red will likely ever win either of those awards ever again thanks to ESPN.

Reaching a lil there? I guess FL and Oakland had ESPN in their backpockets last year to garner ROY awards for their players? Not sure what to say about the MVP awards, I certainly cant imagine you are saying anyone on the Reds deserved a shot the last several years and was snubbed?

GIDP
06-15-2010, 11:41 AM
Reaching a lil there? I guess FL and Oakland had ESPN in their backpockets last year to garner ROY awards for their players? Not sure what to say about the MVP awards, I certainly cant imagine you are saying anyone on the Reds deserved a shot the last several years and was snubbed?

If it comes to a close race the Reds will never win any of those awards again. Last years ROY races were just plain bad.

Harang in 06 was the only pitcher in baseball history to lead the league in wins and strike outs and not win the Cy Young. I dont even think he got a single vote.

Votto his rookie year came in 2nd. He got 1 first place vote.

Johnny Cueto in 2009 was one of the pitchers in baseball the first half of the year and didnt get an all star nod.

DirtyBaker
06-16-2010, 01:50 PM
No Reds will be voted into this year's All-Star game either, despite being currently tied for 1st in the NL central, and my 35 votes.

Reds don't get much love by the national media or fans.

bounty37h
06-16-2010, 02:04 PM
No Reds will be voted into this year's All-Star game either, despite being currently tied for 1st in the NL central, and my 35 votes.

Reds don't get much love by the national media or fans.

I agree the all star voting is as big a joke as it comes-the fact you have voted 35 times is an example, anyone can vote that many times (not a slam against you, but shows how FUBAR the process is). The fact Chipper is ahead of Gomes says enough there. But, you cant blame ESPN for that, they show what fans want to see, heck, we cant even get our own fans to come watch us in our own park...

redhat
06-16-2010, 06:29 PM
I don't know, but they'd be smart to lock him up before Pujols signs his. IMO that is his ceiling...
While you're entitled to your opinion, there's no way that Votto should get a contract anywhere near Pujols money.

He's a great young player with a bright future, but let's be realistic. He's in his third full season. Hasn't yet hit 30 HR in a season. Hasn't driven in 100 runs. Hasn't scored 100 runs.

If he stays healthy, it looks like he may do all three this season. Attaboy, kid. Now do that again each year for the next nine seasons. That's when you can start comparing him to Pujols.

GIDP
06-16-2010, 06:37 PM
He certainly hasn't had as many cry baby moments either.

DirtyBaker
06-16-2010, 11:05 PM
While you're entitled to your opinion, there's no way that Votto should get a contract anywhere near Pujols money.

He's a great young player with a bright future, but let's be realistic. He's in his third full season. Hasn't yet hit 30 HR in a season. Hasn't driven in 100 runs. Hasn't scored 100 runs.

If he stays healthy, it looks like he may do all three this season. Attaboy, kid. Now do that again each year for the next nine seasons. That's when you can start comparing him to Pujols.

It's this reason why he ought to be signed this year. I think he's going to put up his best numbers this year and could ask for a heck of a lot more the longer the Reds wait.