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View Full Version : Two/Three Trades Out There



travisgrimes13
06-14-2010, 03:32 PM
If I'm the Reds I am looking to add another arm in the bullpen, upgrade over Harang in the rotation and get a stable CFer. I like Drew Stubbs as much as anyone on the ballclub but the constant strikeouts are getting old and can't have that if we want to win the division. Now not saying these will all happen but just pointing out a few options.

Cincinnati Reds Trade OF Chris Heisey, IF Juan Francisco and LHP Matt Maloney to the Los Angeles Dodgers for CF Matt Kemp.

Matt Kemp is in a slump and is also very unhappy with his contract situation and how the Dodgers FO has handled it. Dodgers get 3B/LF of the future in Francisco, a guy in Heisey who has ALOT of potential and a potential solid back end of the rotation guy in Maloney.

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Cincinnati Reds Trade IF Todd Frazier, C Devin Mesoraco, OF Drew Stubbs and a PTBNL to the Seattle Mariners for LHP Cliff Lee.

Mariners aren't going anywhere this season and to hold onto Lee would be stupid. They get 2 GREAT prospects, an OF who has had some success in the majors and a PTBNL.

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Cincinnati Reds Trade RHP Aaron Harang (plus cash to pay his salary for rest of season and $2M to help buy him out), SS Zack Cozart, and a PTBNL to the Chicago White Sox for RHP J.J. Putz

Reds get a very good arm in the bullpen and the Sox get Harang for a half a year for free, a nice SS prospect and their pick from a list of a guy in the Reds organization.

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So? Are these trades possible? Would the other teams accept those trades?

aubashbrother
06-14-2010, 03:37 PM
I see no way the Dodgers trade Kemp. Im not giving up Meso , Frazier and Stubbs for a few months of Lee who will walk after the season . and I dont think it would cost that much for Putz and not sure they would want Harang

Vottomatic
06-14-2010, 03:46 PM
I see no way the Dodgers trade Kemp. Im not giving up Meso , Frazier and Stubbs for a few months of Lee who will walk after the season . and I dont think it would cost that much for Putz and not sure they would want Harang

Ditto.

Dodgers are in the thick of it with a good team. They have no need to trade.

Not going to give up that much for a rental of Cliff Lee. He'll sign as a FA with the Yankees after this season, like all great pitchers seeking their retirement package.

Putz is a FA at the end of the season. I'm not giving that much up for him either and we shouldn't have to.

Reds
06-14-2010, 03:49 PM
The only way I trade for Lee is if we're up 8-10 games and are pretty sure we're going to make the playoffs. He'd be a very valuable asset in the postseason, but I wouldn't rent him for a push. I would rent him for the playoffs.

Redeye fly
06-14-2010, 04:24 PM
I like the thinking and wheels in motion to try to improve the club.

However, unhappy and slumping or not, the Dodgers are not going to trade Kemp unless they fall out of the race. That's probably not going to happen. They especially wouldn't trade an established guy like Kemp if they are still in it for a prospect with limited big league experience like Heisey... even throwing those other guys in as well. I think we saw that Francisco is not quite big league ready with what we saw I believe the Cubs pitchers doing to him with off speed stuff in the dirt , so there's no guarantee that Heisey and Francisco combined give you what Kemp does if you're the Dodgers. I agree both are fine young players, but I don't see it happening at this point.

Trade 2 could be much more possible, but I agree with the poster above that it's a lot to give up for a guy that you don't know if you can keep. I'm not ready to give up on Stubbs anyway and I'm sure the Reds aren't either. He has raised his average dramatically, and I kind of straddle the fence on the strike outs. I agree with the theory that an out is an out, regardless of how it occurs. But I'm still a little old school in the sense that I don't particularly like seeing them either, because it still seems the odds are better for you when you at least put the ball in play, barring a double play or a pop up on the infield. But even with that, those are results after the fact. Maybe instead there's a bad throw or a dropped throw and so there's no double play. Maybe the pop up is more of a bloop shot just over the infield that falls in. So there's a large part of me that still doesn't like to see our hitters strike out. That said, as has been mentioned, Stubbs stands a better chance of getting a hit just on a ground ball than the average player.

Trade 3, I wouldn't want to give up that much for a relief pitcher, and I don't particularly know why the White Sox would want Harang, unless they believe they can "fix him".

Obviously I'd love to have all those players though.

Kiss the Baby00
06-14-2010, 05:08 PM
If I'm the Reds I am looking to add another arm in the bullpen, upgrade over Harang in the rotation and get a stable CFer. I like Drew Stubbs as much as anyone on the ballclub but the constant strikeouts are getting old and can't have that if we want to win the division. Now not saying these will all happen but just pointing out a few options.

stubbs is hitting over .300 in the last month. he is a first round 8 or 12th overall pick and in his first full season starting. 10000% stubbs will not be traded

Cincinnati Reds Trade OF Chris Heisey, IF Juan Francisco and LHP Matt Maloney to the Los Angeles Dodgers for CF Matt Kemp.


Matt Kemp is in a slump and is also very unhappy with his contract situation and how the Dodgers FO has handled it. Dodgers get 3B/LF of the future in Francisco, a guy in Heisey who has ALOT of potential and a potential solid back end of the rotation guy in Maloney.

Heisey was our minor league player of the year last yr. i doubt they are going to be trading him anytime soon, and where would kemp play? center over stubbs who they have a ton invested in, not RF over bruce who they have a similar amount invested in and not over gomes who leads the league in RBIS. i dont think kemp is gonna come here to be a 4th OF and offense isnt our problem area if you havent noticed.
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Cincinnati Reds Trade IF Todd Frazier, C Devin Mesoraco, OF Drew Stubbs and a PTBNL to the Seattle Mariners for LHP Cliff Lee.



Mariners aren't going anywhere this season and to hold onto Lee would be stupid. They get 2 GREAT prospects, an OF who has had some success in the majors and a PTBNL.

Lee is a FA at the end of the yr. im pretty sure the reds wont be trading a starting OF and first rd draft pick in his first full season AND a solid young catcher AND PTBNL for a half a season rental.

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Cincinnati Reds Trade RHP Aaron Harang (plus cash to pay his salary for rest of season and $2M to help buy him out), SS Zack Cozart, and a PTBNL to the Chicago White Sox for RHP J.J. Putz



Reds get a very good arm in the bullpen and the Sox get Harang for a half a year for free, a nice SS prospect and their pick from a list of a guy in the Reds organization.

he is JJ putz not mariano rivera. reds are going to part ways w harang at the end of this year bc the team wont be picking up his 14 mill option for 2011. if they are going to pay him anyways they are going to keep him and run him out there. Putz is actually a player the Reds should be targeting. they arent going to hurt their team in one area in order to improve the bullpen. look for a package of minor leaguers to be dealt for putz.


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So? Are these trades possible? Would the other teams accept those trades?

none of these trades are possible and the only likely player you mentioned that the reds will be targeting is Putz.

TC81190
06-14-2010, 05:24 PM
The Dodgers would laugh if you offered them that trade and then ask you what you really called for.

Kiss the Baby00
06-14-2010, 05:57 PM
The Dodgers would laugh if you offered them that trade and then ask you what you really called for.

i meant to say this too. good point :)

Alpha Zero
06-14-2010, 07:04 PM
If he can still play a solid CF, I wouldn't mind picking up DeJesus for a year and a half. He isn't the best, but he has gotten on base quite well throughout his career, and I've always liked his style of play. He'd look pretty good at the top of the lineup and would allow Dusty to drop Cabrera to the 7 or 8 hole in the lineup where he belongs.

DeJesus is under contract through 2011 and is relatively cheap at $4.7MM this year and $6MM next year. If he can be had for a couple of decent but not great prospects, I'd look into dealing for him to shore up the top of the lineup and bolster the OF depth chart.

In addition to a CF, I still think that the Reds need a real front of the rotation stopper, but I doubt they'll pick one up. I still believe that the Reds' bullpen issues will work themsleves out. A healthy Bray replacing Herrera would do wonders, and I have faith that the rest of the pen will work through the kinks by the AS Break.

lidspinner
06-14-2010, 08:03 PM
call me silly but Stubbs is "almost" untouchable.....this is his 1st full year playing up here, he plays great defense, might be the best defense in the National League.....and he is still learning the game....once he learns to cut the K's out and earn a few more walks, he is going to own the base paths. You dont trade a guy with his skills just cause his 1st full year is not working out the way we all though it would.

When Drew learns to gain more walks and hit a few more linedrives, this guy is going to be wanted by every MLB team out there....now way do I trade him now unless I am getting Robinson Cano or Ubaldo Jimenez

Vottomatic
06-14-2010, 08:46 PM
My fear is messing up team chemistry. Not sure how the other guys would react to losing one of their buddies.

bshall2105
06-14-2010, 08:57 PM
I have heard some people talking about trading Yonder Alonso for Cliff Lee and cash. We do lose basically our top prospect but he is blocked at his position, and isn't hitting well in AAA anyway.

Vottomatic
06-14-2010, 09:10 PM
I have heard some people talking about trading Yonder Alonso for Cliff Lee and cash. We do lose basically our top prospect but he is blocked at his position, and isn't hitting well in AAA anyway.

If that's all it took, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'm not that high on Alonso anyway. I'd rent Lee for the right price........I just don't want to give up a ton of prospects or the corps of our team this year, for him.

I'm sure other teams will offer them more, but he is a former #1 pick.

Lee is a rent-a-player and you shouldn't sell the farm for the guy. But if we could get him for very little, I think it would make us a definite contender.

Alpha Zero
06-14-2010, 09:16 PM
Getting Lee would be a boon, and like you said if it only takes Alonso and a middling-type prospect, I'd be all over that deal. The Reds could safely offer arbitration to Lee at the end of the season and would then pick up an extra first round pick along with a supplemental round selection since he'll almost definitely be a Type A free agent.

bshall2105
06-14-2010, 09:17 PM
If that's all it took, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'm not that high on Alonso anyway. I'd rent Lee for the right price........I just don't want to give up a ton of prospects or the corps of our team this year, for him.

I'm sure other teams will offer them more, but he is a former #1 pick.

Lee is a rent-a-player and you shouldn't sell the farm for the guy. But if we could get him for very little, I think it would make us a definite contender.

Yeah I would be shocked if the Mariners actually wnated to take the deal, but they really have no need for Cliff Lee. I didn't understand why they traded for him in the first place. Probably just to pick up prospects like Yonder at the deadline.

Griffey012
06-14-2010, 10:30 PM
I have heard some people talking about trading Yonder Alonso for Cliff Lee and cash. We do lose basically our top prospect but he is blocked at his position, and isn't hitting well in AAA anyway.

Pretty much like the LaPorta for Sabathia deal a few years ago. And we all see how LaPorta is doing. I'll take a big push for the playoffs, not to mention, we do have 20+ million coming off the books in the form of SP, plus some other money coming off freeing up about 30 mil or so. It's not unreasonable to think we could make an effort towards resigning Lee, but it wouldn't likely be enough and we would just take the 2 draft picks.

BLEEDS
06-14-2010, 11:39 PM
The Dodgers would laugh if you offered them that trade and then ask you what you really called for.

They would laugh because we overpayed for Kemp?

IMO, they couldn't make that trade fast enough.

Walt luckily isn't that dumb to offer it.

All of those trades are too one-sided/heavy - 2 for the Reds, one for the Mariners.

About .0000001% any of them get offered, let alone accepted.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

bubbachunk
06-15-2010, 12:06 AM
You can say that I am wearing rose colored glasses but there is no way I would make those deals. Maybe the Harang but the money would not work out there and with Bailey hurt can you really afford to trade away SP as this point.

Basically you are trading the whole farm that is anywhere near contributing minus Alonso and Valakia for 3 guys. One of which will be a FA after the season.

Vottomatic
06-15-2010, 09:49 AM
I could see a team taking on Harang's contract simply because it's over at the end of the season. For example, Haren is owed around $8M this year and $12.75 in '11 and '12. If the D-Backs wanted to unload future salary, they swap Haren for Harang, and pick up a couple of prospects along the way. They unload salary and get a few good young players too. That's the only way I see us unloading Harang. And then Reds mgmt has to be willing to take on Haren's salary for 2 more years.

But the way I look at it is...........I'd be willing to sign Arroyo to a multi-year deal in the $8M-$10M per season range................but I'd rather have Haren and his better numbers instead of Arroyo.........and to me, it would be worth a few million more for Haren.

What I really want is some bullpen help, though.

brm7675
06-15-2010, 11:26 AM
Stubbs is in his rookie season and you want to deal him? Are you mad? He will get better and he is cheap.

Heisey is our LF of the future, not going anywhere.

No one is going to take Harrang and that salary and the Reds are not going to eat it.

Putz is not worth what you are giving up.

Frazier is our 2nd basemen after this season as Phillips will be traded in the offseason.

We don't want Lee, he is a 2 month rental and this team needs to stay away from those.


If I'm the Reds I am looking to add another arm in the bullpen, upgrade over Harang in the rotation and get a stable CFer. I like Drew Stubbs as much as anyone on the ballclub but the constant strikeouts are getting old and can't have that if we want to win the division. Now not saying these will all happen but just pointing out a few options.

Cincinnati Reds Trade OF Chris Heisey, IF Juan Francisco and LHP Matt Maloney to the Los Angeles Dodgers for CF Matt Kemp.

Matt Kemp is in a slump and is also very unhappy with his contract situation and how the Dodgers FO has handled it. Dodgers get 3B/LF of the future in Francisco, a guy in Heisey who has ALOT of potential and a potential solid back end of the rotation guy in Maloney.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Cincinnati Reds Trade IF Todd Frazier, C Devin Mesoraco, OF Drew Stubbs and a PTBNL to the Seattle Mariners for LHP Cliff Lee.

Mariners aren't going anywhere this season and to hold onto Lee would be stupid. They get 2 GREAT prospects, an OF who has had some success in the majors and a PTBNL.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Cincinnati Reds Trade RHP Aaron Harang (plus cash to pay his salary for rest of season and $2M to help buy him out), SS Zack Cozart, and a PTBNL to the Chicago White Sox for RHP J.J. Putz

Reds get a very good arm in the bullpen and the Sox get Harang for a half a year for free, a nice SS prospect and their pick from a list of a guy in the Reds organization.

------------------------------------------------------------------

So? Are these trades possible? Would the other teams accept those trades?

Vottomatic
06-15-2010, 12:47 PM
Frazier is our 2nd basemen after this season as Phillips will be traded in the offseason.



I used to think that. I don't anymore.

If they trade BP, they will pull an OCab type deal to cover 2B until one of our prospects step up.

brm7675
06-15-2010, 01:33 PM
Why? What has Frazier done to hurt his chances to be the replacement for Phillips who will start to be overpaid in the coming seasons with his present deal.


I used to think that. I don't anymore.

If they trade BP, they will pull an OCab type deal to cover 2B until one of our prospects step up.

webbbj
06-15-2010, 01:51 PM
i think the reds will make a trade or two to help improve this team. but unless they go on another big time run in the next month like they did in may i highly doubt they make a block buster type trade.

Vottomatic
06-15-2010, 04:51 PM
Why? What has Frazier done to hurt his chances to be the replacement for Phillips who will start to be overpaid in the coming seasons with his present deal.

I guess you haven't followed Frazier this year.......?

He's sucking, to the tune of a .217 batting average at present in 203 at-bats (4th most on the team). He does have 7 HR's, but is 2nd on the team in K's behind Cozart at 53. And other than Josh Anderson, who was released, Frazier has the worst OBP of anyone on the team at .286.

Needless to say, if he's the future at 2B, it's years away unless something clicks soon. :rolleyes:

If BP is hurt, you're more likely to see Sutton or Castillo come up to play 2B than Frazier. And I doubt they'd bring Valaika up, even though he's hitting over .300. His power numbers aren't impressive either. And Dusty would rather have a veteran type player than a rookie.

Kingspoint
06-15-2010, 06:08 PM
IMO, Valaika will be Phillips' replacement at 2nd Base.

Vottomatic
06-15-2010, 06:26 PM
IMO, Valaika will be Phillips' replacement at 2nd Base.

Unless he shows me more, I hope not.

He's a singles hitter who doesn't steal bases. Jeff Keppinger-lite. Needs to develop some power.