PDA

View Full Version : Reds call up reliever Jordan Smith from Double-A



OnBaseMachine
06-14-2010, 10:18 PM
From mlbtraderumors:

Reds called up reliever Jordan Smith from Double A, MLBTR has learned.

http://twitter.com/mlbtrreds

IMO, Smith is not an improvement at this point. Here's his current stats in AA: 28.1 IP, 38 H, 3 HR, 8 BB, 14 K, 2.18 GO/FO, 5.08 ERA. He gets a good amount of groundballs but he doesn't miss very many bats. Assuming this is true, it doesn't make much sense, IMO.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=502136

RedsManRick
06-14-2010, 10:33 PM
Short of calling up one of their AAA starters or the guys coming back from injury, it was down to Smith, Fisher, and Valiquette for guys on the 40 man. And Fisher and Valiquette have major issues throwing strikes.

I didn't realize we had an open spot on the 25 man.

RedsManRick
06-14-2010, 10:34 PM
Ground ballers in the minors are interesting. Because they're playing on crappier fields with (often) worse defenders, it's possible they'll fare better as they advance.

fearofpopvol1
06-14-2010, 10:36 PM
I think Rick nailed it. The guy seems to be able to throw strikes at least. Maybe the rest of the Reds bullpen (save Arthur Rhodes) can take some cues from Smith.

OnBaseMachine
06-14-2010, 10:48 PM
Short of calling up one of their AAA starters or the guys coming back from injury, it was down to Smith, Fisher, and Valiquette for guys on the 40 man. And Fisher and Valiquette have major issues throwing strikes.

I didn't realize we had an open spot on the 25 man.

The Reds don't have an open spot on the 25 man roster. Assuming this is true, the Reds would have to ship someone out.

Brutus
06-14-2010, 11:40 PM
Ground ballers in the minors are interesting. Because they're playing on crappier fields with (often) worse defenders, it's possible they'll fare better as they advance.

Agreed. I think a groundball pitcher for a relief pitcher is a good way to go right now.

GOYA
06-14-2010, 11:56 PM
Fisher has never had any trouble throwing strikes in the minors. As with anybody, It's a crapshoot what a guy does when he's called up to the bigs. Some guys just get psyched out.

Benihana
06-15-2010, 12:11 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Smith have some early success here.

guttle11
06-15-2010, 01:09 AM
Do whatever possible until teams are ready to deal bullpen arms. I have no doubt that Walt will get bullpen help in a month or so if the team stays in the race, but right now there aren't many sellers, and the teams that will be sellers are really just starting to evaluate who they will deal and what they want in return.

If Smith does come up, fine by me. Shuffling the deck chairs is about all that can be done right now unless they get lucky in an early deal. No real fixes will be available for a month.

edabbs44
06-15-2010, 08:02 AM
I'll take him, if true. The market hasn't truly opened for business yet so until it does we may see a few relievers get the call to see who might be able to help.

lollipopcurve
06-15-2010, 08:06 AM
Smith has been rock solid in his last 6 outings: 8 innings, 7 hits, 1 run, 0 BB and 3 K. They've been giving him some 2-inning stints, too.

Worth a shot -- as others have said, this is the time to be checking out some in-house options. Already, it seems Ondrusek may be on the right track. Hopefully they can find another hot hand here soon.

BCubb2003
06-15-2010, 08:38 AM
Are the Reds going to lead the league in pitchers who didn't pitch in AAA?

redsmetz
06-15-2010, 08:46 AM
Are the Reds going to lead the league in pitchers who didn't pitch in AAA?

Besides Leake, who else do we have that hasn't pitched in AAA?

kaldaniels
06-15-2010, 01:04 PM
Besides Leake, who else do we have that hasn't pitched in AA?

I still bet they lead the league...show me a team with 3 pitchers who skipped AAA.

redsmetz
06-15-2010, 01:30 PM
I still bet they lead the league...show me a team with 3 pitchers who skipped AAA.

But who is the other pitcher? Leake, Smith if this is true and who?

Chip R
06-15-2010, 01:37 PM
But who is the other pitcher? Leake, Smith if this is true and who?

Cueto?

BCubb2003
06-15-2010, 01:55 PM
But who is the other pitcher? Leake, Smith if this is true and who?

Paul Janish?

kaldaniels
06-15-2010, 02:41 PM
But who is the other pitcher? Leake, Smith if this is true and who?

If you can't show me a team that has 3 my friend, the Reds lead the league.

RED VAN HOT
06-15-2010, 02:57 PM
Now I feel much better about our chances of winning.

Danny Serafini
06-15-2010, 03:21 PM
Fay's now confirming he's coming up, but he doesn't know who's leaving yet.

Ron Madden
06-15-2010, 03:46 PM
The Reds don't have an open spot on the 25 man roster. Assuming this is true, the Reds would have to ship someone out.

Who goes to make room on the 25 man roster?

OnBaseMachine
06-15-2010, 04:05 PM
Who goes to make room on the 25 man roster?

Del Rosario is my guess.

edabbs44
06-15-2010, 04:09 PM
Del Rosario is my guess.

Great guess...

OnBaseMachine
06-15-2010, 04:09 PM
It's official:

Reds promote RHP Jordan Smith and option RHP Enerio Del Rosario. Jordan will be making his ML debut when he pitches

http://twitter.com/CincinnatiReds

More shuffling of the deck chairs. At least Del Rosario was getting minor league hitters out when he was called up. Smith isn't even doing that right now.

Ron Madden
06-15-2010, 04:11 PM
This is a head scratcher for sure. I wish Smith the best of luck.

Kc61
06-15-2010, 04:14 PM
Smith made the transition to the bullpen this year. He started slowly but was doing much better of late. He doesn't walk anybody, doesn't strike out too many, gets a lot of ground balls.

RedsManRick
06-15-2010, 07:16 PM
This is odd. Isn't Rosario just a more advanced Smith? The grass is always greener in AA I guess...

dougdirt
06-15-2010, 07:19 PM
This is odd. Isn't Rosario just a more advanced Smith? The grass is always greener in AA I guess...

From a pure 'stuff' point of view, Smith is a clear cut favorite. Fastball is better (faster and also has plenty of sink that generates a high rate of grounders) and his slider has been labeled from an above average to plus pitch. Its one of those weird things though where the stuff doesn't line up with the numbers at all. You would think a guy with a good fastball and a good slider would get more strikeouts, particularly out of the bullpen. But he hasn't yet. The move confuses me as much as the next guy.

OnBaseMachine
06-15-2010, 07:20 PM
From Hal McCoy:


SMITH FEATURES a sinker that coaxes ground balls and said, “I’m just going to keep doing what I was doing down there, attacking the zone and using my sinker to let ‘em beat it into the ground.”

After a slow start in the bullpen, Smith came on strong in his last six appearances, posting a 1.13 ERA after a slow start. His overall record for 27 appearances is 1-3 with a 5.08 ERA and he converted nine of 12 save situations.

“I had to adjust my pitches, certain pitches at certain times,” he said. “I was a bit bullheaded, trying to be too aggressive with my fastball at certain points. But a couple of weeks ago it started to click and I got into a nice rhythm.”


http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2010/06/15/it_was_cincinnati_reds_manager.html?cxtype=feedbot

HokieRed
06-15-2010, 07:21 PM
From a pure 'stuff' point of view, Smith is a clear cut favorite. Fastball is better (faster and also has plenty of sink that generates a high rate of grounders) and his slider has been labeled from an above average to plus pitch. Its one of those weird things though where the stuff doesn't line up with the numbers at all. You would think a guy with a good fastball and a good slider would get more strikeouts, particularly out of the bullpen. But he hasn't yet. The move confuses me as much as the next guy.


Throws 95 as I recall. Is that right?

dougdirt
06-15-2010, 07:21 PM
Throws 95 as I recall. Is that right?

He can get it up there, yes. Though he works lower than that.

Redsfan320
06-16-2010, 02:45 PM
Congrats on your first inning being a scoreless one, JS!

320

Chip R
06-16-2010, 02:46 PM
Congrats on your first inning being a scoreless one, JS!

320

Barely.

Sea Ray
06-16-2010, 03:09 PM
Was Jordan Smith on the 40 man before his callup?

GOYA
06-16-2010, 03:10 PM
Yes

nemesis
06-16-2010, 03:20 PM
Could this be an audition of sorts? To see if he is good enough to warrant a place on the 40 man roster or creates enough value to use as a trade piece to go get a Veteran? If the Reds sign a reliever, or even trade for one they will need a spot on the 40 man roster to open up. Actually 2 since Volquez is about a month or so away from coming off the DL.

Either way with Bray coming up within a month, Volquez probably taking Harang's spot in the Rotation, LeCure possibly moving to the Bullpen when Bailey returns and a trade deadline 45 days away, the Bullpen should be revamped sooner than later...

Will M
06-16-2010, 04:31 PM
Could this be an audition of sorts? To see if he is good enough to warrant a place on the 40 man roster or creates enough value to use as a trade piece to go get a Veteran? If the Reds sign a reliever, or even trade for one they will need a spot on the 40 man roster to open up. Actually 2 since Volquez is about a month or so away from coming off the DL.

Either way with Bray coming up within a month, Volquez probably taking Harang's spot in the Rotation, LeCure possibly moving to the Bullpen when Bailey returns and a trade deadline 45 days away, the Bullpen should be revamped sooner than later...

the team currently has five decent pitchers (Arroyo, Cueto, Leake, Rhodes & Cordero).

We have a few guys who may be here soon (but not soon enough): Bailey, Volquez, Bray & Burton.

We have two guys in AAA that I think are better than most of the pitchers in Cincinnati: Wood & Maloney.

We have Chapman who could be here at some point but still has issues to work on (control & secondary pitches).

So...despite half the staff being really really bad there is some glimmer of hope on the horizon. However, IMO it would be a mistake for the team to simply rely on a calvary of Bailey, Volquez, Bray, Burton, Wood, Maloney & Chapman. too many question marks & hopes there. i think the team needs 2-3more arms in addition to the calvary if we want to play in the postseason. that will take a committment from Bob Castellini as payroll will be added.

reds44
06-22-2010, 02:20 AM
I have no idea if Jordan Smith will be a quality major league reliever or not, but he definatley made a fan (and I'm sure there are more than just me) tonight. He was pitching in AA two weeks ago, and to come in and bail out Cordero and the Reds like he did tonight took some big stones.

Congrats to him on his first career save.

Kc61
06-22-2010, 02:25 AM
I have no idea if Jordan Smith will be a quality major league reliever or not, but he definatley made a fan (and I'm sure there are more than just me) tonight. He was pitching in AA two weeks ago, and to come in and bail out Cordero and the Reds like he did tonight took some big stones.

Congrats to him on his first career save.

I've always supported Smith in the minor league forum.
Throws grounders and doesn't walk guys. Question is if he will miss enough bats. But he certainly came up big tonight in a tough spot.

CTA513
06-22-2010, 02:26 AM
He showed a good slider (curve?) and change up tonight to go along with his sinker.

The Operator
06-22-2010, 02:32 AM
He certainly made a fan of me tonight. I'd like to see him given more chances in some higher leverage situations. He can't do any worse than the Cordero's and Masset's of the world.

Cordero needs to hang his head in shame. He pitched so terribly that he was taken out with a 6-2 lead and had to be bailed out by a guy who was pitching in AA not long ago. If he has any pride, this should embarrass the crap out of him. Oh, and this all happened AFTER he blew the save in the previous inning. Terrible.

OnBaseMachine
06-22-2010, 02:38 AM
Good job by Smith. I'm still not certain he's ready for the big leagues yet but he got the job done tonight in a big situation.

Nick Masset also pitched well as he retired all five batters he faced. Let's hope that's the start of him turning his season around but I'm not holding my breath...

Cordero - ugh. That was ugly. I thought he had turned a corner recently as he had retired the last 10 batters he faced. So much for that, I guess.

fearofpopvol1
06-22-2010, 03:16 AM
I thought Smith had pretty good stuff honestly. I don't know enough about him nor have I seen him pitch prior to coming to the majors, but I thought his makeup and composure in all of his appearances have been impressive. It seemed like he had an out pitch with that last changeup he threw to win the game.

Let's hope he can keep it up.

TheNext44
06-22-2010, 03:24 AM
Jordan reminds me of another reliever named Smith. They both had solid downward movement on most of their pitches. I would be thrilled if Jordan has half the career Dave had.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/smithda02.shtml

durl
06-22-2010, 10:17 AM
Cordero needs to hang his head in shame. He pitched so terribly that he was taken out with a 6-2 lead and had to be bailed out by a guy who was pitching in AA not long ago. If he has any pride, this should embarrass the crap out of him. Oh, and this all happened AFTER he blew the save in the previous inning. Terrible.

You NAILED it.

Chip R
07-06-2010, 12:03 PM
I'm not saying Jordan will be a future closer but in the situations he's pitched in and the results he's had smacks of being groomed as a future closer. A lot of closers started off in the role he is currently pitching in. I remember John Franco picked up about a dozen wins his first year pitching in middle relief when Ted Power was closing. Jeff Shaw pitched in middle relief for a while before he moved into the closer's spot. Mariano Rivera, the same thing.

traderumor
07-06-2010, 12:05 PM
Despite the rocky start to his outing last night, the next two innings were very impressive.

OnBaseMachine
07-06-2010, 12:46 PM
I don't understand why Dusty is using him in high leverage situations. Don't get me wrong, his stuff has looked pretty good at times but I don't like him using him in close games right now. Dusty brought him into a scoreless game on Saturday and he ended up giving up three runs, and then last night he came in and allowed two inherited runners to score plus one of his own. Again, I've been impressed with his stuff at times but I don't think he's ready to pitch in high leverage situations yet.

Falls City Beer
07-06-2010, 12:50 PM
Despite the rocky start to his outing last night, the next two innings were very impressive.

I agree. He's aggressive, which is aces with me. The hits that brought in the runs last night were mostly a result of a combination of luck and falling too in love with the inside part of the plate. Otherwise, he was getting some rough swings from the Mets.

lollipopcurve
07-06-2010, 12:56 PM
he was getting some rough swings from the Mets.

There were also some rockets right at people. I was not that impressed with Smith last night, other than the fact he threw strikes. I like the kid, but he has to keep the ball down to be effective.

Falls City Beer
07-06-2010, 12:58 PM
There were also some rockets right at people. I was not that impressed with Smith last night, other than the fact he threw strikes. I like the kid, but he has to keep the ball down to be effective.

Early on, yeah, I know. First chance I got to see him last night. Liked what I saw, results aside. I think the results will be there.

Chip R
07-06-2010, 12:59 PM
I don't understand why Dusty is using him in high leverage situations. Don't get me wrong, his stuff has looked pretty good at times but I don't like him using him in close games right now. Dusty brought him into a scoreless game on Saturday and he ended up giving up three runs, and then last night he came in and allowed two inherited runners to score plus one of his own. Again, I've been impressed with his stuff at times but I don't think he's ready to pitch in high leverage situations yet.

You'd rather he use Massett or bring back Daniel Ray or Del Rosario?

OnBaseMachine
07-06-2010, 01:08 PM
You'd rather he use Massett or bring back Daniel Ray or Del Rosario?

No, I'd rather they find a better reliever on the market. Smith is better than Herrera/EDR but that doesn't mean he should be the first option in a high leverage situation, IMO. I'd rather see Ondrusek in there than Smith.

Kc61
07-06-2010, 01:35 PM
No, I'd rather they find a better reliever on the market. Smith is better than Herrera/EDR but that doesn't mean he should be the first option in a high leverage situation, IMO. I'd rather see Ondrusek in there than Smith.

I think Dusty is quite intentionally using Smith in higher leverage spots. He apparently sees the kid as a future late inning reliever. I think Dusty likes the ground ball tendencies, although Smith did leave a few pitches up the last two outings.

Obviously if the Reds can add a good veteran reliever for the stretch drive it would help and I'm not saying Smith is the answer. But I will say that Smith and Ondrusek have emerged from the younger crop of relievers as the two best options for right now.

Both Smith and Ondrusek have another good attribute - they are both former starters and when necessary can work multiple innings. Smith did well last night after that initially bad start.

With Bray, Smith, Ondrusek and with Massett doing better, the bullpen is improved. Right now, I'd like to see a TOR starter added - I think at this moment that is the most pressing need for the stretch run.

Sea Ray
07-07-2010, 04:47 PM
I'm not saying Jordan will be a future closer but in the situations he's pitched in and the results he's had smacks of being groomed as a future closer. A lot of closers started off in the role he is currently pitching in. I remember John Franco picked up about a dozen wins his first year pitching in middle relief when Ted Power was closing. Jeff Shaw pitched in middle relief for a while before he moved into the closer's spot. Mariano Rivera, the same thing.

He reminds me a lot of Jeff Shaw. How did he slip past our gurus in the minor league forum? I don't recall much chatter about him before being called up

Will M
07-25-2010, 03:40 AM
whoever made the 'outside the box' call to promote Smith from AA sure made a good one. his AA numbers certainly did not predict his major league success.

reds44
07-25-2010, 04:24 AM
whoever made the 'outside the box' call to promote Smith from AA sure made a good one. his AA numbers certainly did not predict his major league success.
I like him a lot, he's been one of my favorite pitchers on the team ever since the Oakland game. He never lets the situation get to big for him. Is he great at this point in his career, no, but I also have faith in him getting people out when he comes in the game. I think he has the ability to be a closer in the future, he just has that mentality.

Smith and Ondrusek have helped out the bullpen immensley lately, IMO.

dougdirt
07-25-2010, 04:25 AM
whoever made the 'outside the box' call to promote Smith from AA sure made a good one. his AA numbers certainly did not predict his major league success.

Nope, they sure didn't (the numbers that is). His stuff has never really been questioned though. Two years ago I talked to a Reds scout who told me at the time that Smith had an above average fastball and slider at the time.

Ron Madden
07-25-2010, 04:41 AM
I think Jordan Smith has been a huge help to the bullpen, I'm glad he's here.

Rojo
07-25-2010, 05:32 AM
How did he slip past our gurus in the minor league forum?

They were probably hoodwinked by his mediocrity.

Seriously, his main strength has been controlling the homerun. I'm sure that's what got him the call-up. Tom Hume ceiling, there are worse things.

TheNext44
07-25-2010, 05:43 AM
I'm not saying Jordan will be a future closer but in the situations he's pitched in and the results he's had smacks of being groomed as a future closer. A lot of closers started off in the role he is currently pitching in. I remember John Franco picked up about a dozen wins his first year pitching in middle relief when Ted Power was closing. Jeff Shaw pitched in middle relief for a while before he moved into the closer's spot. Mariano Rivera, the same thing.

I personally like groundball, hard sinker pitchers as closers more than fireballers. In tight situations, they can get the double play, which I think is more valuable than the strikeout, in high leverage situations. They also tend to be more unflappable, and far more home run stingy. And if they have a really good hard sinker, they can still the strikeout if that is what's best as well.

Kc61
07-25-2010, 08:53 AM
Smith has always been stingy with walks. His WHIP numbers in the minor league were usually good.

He successfully combines ground balls and few walks.

The issue with him has always been his K rate, which hasn't been special.

He's been terrific so far, let's hope it continues.

Chip R
07-25-2010, 04:16 PM
I personally like groundball, hard sinker pitchers as closers more than fireballers. In tight situations, they can get the double play, which I think is more valuable than the strikeout, in high leverage situations. They also tend to be more unflappable, and far more home run stingy. And if they have a really good hard sinker, they can still the strikeout if that is what's best as well.

Nah. I don't necessarily like fireballers but I'd rather have a strikeout pitcher in there. I would hope that a closer isn't dependent on getting double plays since you don't want him to put anyone on in the first place. A groundball pitcher also gives up a lot of hits. If you have a slow/bad defense, a lot of those double plays end up as hits.

RedsManRick
07-25-2010, 04:29 PM
Smith has definitely been an unsung hero the last 2 months. So long as he keeps throwing strikes, I don't think he's going to be going back to the minors.