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westofyou
06-16-2010, 12:11 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=5291757&type=story



If coaches at the top U.S. college baseball programs have their way, the ping of the aluminum bat will forever remain a part of the game.
According to an Associated Press survey of 24 coaches whose programs have won 1,000 or more games since 1985, 17 said they preferred aluminum and that there was no need to study the possibility of going to wood bats.

Bat Choice for Top Coaches

The Associated Press asked coaches from the 24 U.S. college programs that have won 1,000 or more games since 1985 for their preferences on the type of bats used in competition. The results:

Aluminum (17):
Dave Van Horn, Arkansas
Jack Leggett, Clemson
Dan Heefner, Dallas Baptist
Mike Martin, Florida State
Danny Hall, Georgia Tech
Paul Mainieri, LSU
Jim Morris, Miami
John Cohen, Mississippi St.
Mike Fox, North Carolina
Dave Schrage, Notre Dame
Frank Anderson, Oklahoma St.
Wayne Graham, Rice
Ray Tanner, South Carolina
Mark Marquess, Stanford
Rob Childress, Texas A&M
Rick Jones, Tulane
Gene Stephenson, Wichita St.

Wood (5):
Dave Serrano, Cal Fullerton
Elliott Avent, NC St.
Sunny Golloway, Oklahoma
Rob Walton, Oral Roberts
Augie Garrido, Texas

Other (2):
Tim Esmay, Arizona St.
(did not participate)
Kevin O'Sullivan, Florida
(no opinion)

"I just don't see the aluminum bat hindering our game in any way," Mississippi State's John Cohen said. "In an ideal world, wood would be cheap, very cost efficient and it would be totally equitable. That can never happen."
Five coaches said they like wood better, but all acknowledged that aluminum probably is here to stay. Florida coach Kevin O'Sullivan said he had no opinion on the question and Arizona State coach Tim Esmay declined to participate in the survey as both teams prepared for the College World Series, which begins Saturday with TCU, Florida St., UCLA, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Clemson also in the field.

Proponents of metal argue that all 301 Division I programs play with the same thing and there's no risk of having top programs playing with better wooden bats, potentially skewing the results. They also like the scoring boost and say a $300 aluminum bat can last an entire 56-game season, while $100 wooden bats can break at any time.

Still, wooden bats have appeal. They allow the game to be played as it was intended, the argument goes, with the hit-and-run, base stealing and bunting all emphasized. Plus, college players would in theory be better prepared to move to professional baseball.

Earlier this year, Division II commissioners began studying the possibility of going to wood, perhaps as soon as 2012.

Ty Halpin, the NCAA associate director of playing rules administration, said Division II made the move in part to address length-of-game concerns. Aluminum-bat games generally take longer because there is more offense.

RedsManRick
06-16-2010, 12:23 PM
You really have to tease out the performance vs. money issue. Everything I've read suggests most people would prefer wood if money were no object. Why act like this is news? Until and unless wooden bats are cheaper and/or more durable, college will stick with aluminium.

Considering the advantage it would be for MLB scouts to see college players hit with wood, couldn't MLB pretty easily pony up $1M to buy 10,000 wood bats for college teams? Even if you had each team put in $100k, wouldn't you basically get that money back in more accurate scouting reports?

dougdirt
06-16-2010, 01:06 PM
You really have to tease out the performance vs. money issue. Everything I've read suggests most people would prefer wood if money were no object. Why act like this is news? Until and unless wooden bats are cheaper and/or more durable, college will stick with aluminium.

Considering the advantage it would be for MLB scouts to see college players hit with wood, couldn't MLB pretty easily pony up $1M to buy 10,000 wood bats for college teams? Even if you had each team put in $100k, wouldn't you basically get that money back in more accurate scouting reports?

I have talked to several scouts about this. Every one of them wishes it would happen. Not only would it help them, it would also help the players (both hitters and pitchers). My question is, how can the College of Southern Nevada afford to play in a wooden bat college league but larger schools can't?

Roy Tucker
06-16-2010, 01:13 PM
Not to mention the whole metal vs. wood bat safety controversies.

hebroncougar
06-16-2010, 01:13 PM
You really have to tease out the performance vs. money issue. Everything I've read suggests most people would prefer wood if money were no object. Why act like this is news? Until and unless wooden bats are cheaper and/or more durable, college will stick with aluminium.

Considering the advantage it would be for MLB scouts to see college players hit with wood, couldn't MLB pretty easily pony up $1M to buy 10,000 wood bats for college teams? Even if you had each team put in $100k, wouldn't you basically get that money back in more accurate scouting reports?

I don't know.........metal bats have gotten super expensive. Almost to the point where you could buy a dozen wooden bats for the cost of one metal one.

dougdirt
06-16-2010, 01:21 PM
I don't know.........metal bats have gotten super expensive. Almost to the point where you could buy a dozen wooden bats for the cost of one metal one.

Not good wooden bats. $300 for one composite bat that lasts an entire season. Wooden bats are $80-120. You are only getting 3-4 wooden bats for the same price. These guys aren't going to Meijer to buy the $20 Louisville Slugger.

bucksfan2
06-16-2010, 01:34 PM
I have to think that the Coaches prefer metal bats because of the contracts that come along with the bat manufacture. I would imagine that if asked which brand of apparel Jim Tressel prefers he would respond Nike in a heartbeat because Nike sponsors OSU. I know there are numerous manufactures of metal bats but only a select few wood bat makers. More than anything I think it would hurt the given coaches overall salary and thats why he doesn't want wood bats.

_Sir_Charles_
06-16-2010, 02:58 PM
At what point do people stop to consider using aluminum bats in the PROS. I'll admit, I'm old school in the fact that I can't stand that "P-I-N-G" from aluminum bats and the fact that it would skew the stats & record books (but hey, PED's have done that anyway). But how long have we been dealing with these wooden bats shattering? It's getting more and more dangerous. In regards to the costs, it's more cost effective for little leagues, high schools & colleges to use metal bats instead of wood. So instead of trying to get all those different levels to switch, get MLB to switch instead. Much simpler (and yet so wrong all at the same time). Just thought I'd toss in the opposite argument. :O)

westofyou
06-16-2010, 03:01 PM
At what point do people stop to consider using aluminum bats in the PROS. I'll admit, I'm old school in the fact that I can't stand that "P-I-N-G" from aluminum bats and the fact that it would skew the stats & record books (but hey, PED's have done that anyway). But how long have we been dealing with these wooden bats shattering? It's getting more and more dangerous. In regards to the costs, it's more cost effective for little leagues, high schools & colleges to use metal bats instead of wood. So instead of trying to get all those different levels to switch, get MLB to switch instead. Much simpler (and yet so wrong all at the same time). Just thought I'd toss in the opposite argument. :O)

Wood ain't going anywhere

Cedric
06-16-2010, 03:01 PM
At what point do people stop to consider using aluminum bats in the PROS. I'll admit, I'm old school in the fact that I can't stand that "P-I-N-G" from aluminum bats and the fact that it would skew the stats & record books (but hey, PED's have done that anyway). But how long have we been dealing with these wooden bats shattering? It's getting more and more dangerous. In regards to the costs, it's more cost effective for little leagues, high schools & colleges to use metal bats instead of wood. So instead of trying to get all those different levels to switch, get MLB to switch instead. Much simpler (and yet so wrong all at the same time). Just thought I'd toss in the opposite argument. :O)

It's not going to happen. Ever.

_Sir_Charles_
06-16-2010, 03:02 PM
I know. But it sure would be simpler.

Cedric
06-16-2010, 03:03 PM
I know. But it sure would be simpler.

It would ruin the game. Baseball is made up of numbers and this would ruin it.

Not even mentioning the safety questions.

westofyou
06-16-2010, 03:07 PM
I know. But it sure would be simpler.

Really?

Why?

Because kids use them?

The game speed on the pro level would assure that death was part of every season if that occurred

dabvu2498
06-16-2010, 03:08 PM
Not even mentioning the safety questions.

You mean like the lady getting killed at a minor league game the other day?

Fact: baseball is not a particularly "safe" game whether played with wood or metal.

Cedric
06-16-2010, 03:15 PM
You mean like the lady getting killed at a minor league game the other day?

Fact: baseball is not a particularly "safe" game whether played with wood or metal.

Ask pitchers what they would prefer.

_Sir_Charles_
06-16-2010, 03:16 PM
It would ruin the game. Baseball is made up of numbers and this would ruin it.

Not even mentioning the safety questions.

I'm not disagreeing, but I think PED's have effectively "ruined" baseball's historic numbers. That boat has left the dock.

As for the saftey questions, sure...the ball is hit harder, but they won't have sharpened stakes and shrapnel flying towards the stands and the players either.

_Sir_Charles_
06-16-2010, 03:20 PM
Really?

Why?

Because kids use them?

The game speed on the pro level would assure that death was part of every season if that occurred

I'm saying it would be simpler because you wouldn't have to have kids switch to wood after a lifetime of playing with metal. And just to be clear, I'm not in FAVOR of it. Just pointing out that it would simplify the current problems. Wouldn't it be much easier to have 30 teams convert than trying to get every NCAA school to convert (and high schools)?

_Sir_Charles_
06-16-2010, 03:21 PM
Ask pitchers what they would prefer.

They'd probably prefer NERF bats. :D

westofyou
06-16-2010, 03:24 PM
I'm saying it would be simpler because you wouldn't have to have kids switch to wood after a lifetime of playing with metal. And just to be clear, I'm not in FAVOR of it. Just pointing out that it would simplify the current problems. Wouldn't it be much easier to have 30 teams convert than trying to get every NCAA school to convert (and high schools)?

Easier on who?

All those poor kids who grew up using metal bats?

Doesn't seem to have hurt anyone outside of Brandon Larson from what I can tell.

_Sir_Charles_
06-16-2010, 03:34 PM
Easier on who?

All those poor kids who grew up using metal bats?

Doesn't seem to have hurt anyone outside of Brandon Larson from what I can tell.

The original discussion was about getting NCAA schools to convert to using wooden bats. And then it migrated to getting MLB to help finance the costs of the conversion. I was only pointing out that if the goal was to get colleges & the pros using the same equipment it would be easier to alter the pros equipment. That's all. (and again, I'm not arguing FOR the change. I hate aluminum bats)

Yachtzee
06-16-2010, 04:36 PM
Broken bats rarely travel with the same force as a ball hit with an aluminum bat. If aluminum bats were introduced in professional ball, pitchers would pretty much have to wear flak jackets and helmets on the mound.

dabvu2498
06-16-2010, 05:45 PM
Ask pitchers what they would prefer.

Flying baseball vs. flying shards of wood. I might be slightly torn.

Now if they'd ban maple...

dougdirt
06-16-2010, 05:47 PM
Broken bats rarely travel with the same force as a ball hit with an aluminum bat. If aluminum bats were introduced in professional ball, pitchers would pretty much have to wear flak jackets and helmets on the mound.

Not just helmets, but those girl softball helmets that have the face masks.

KronoRed
06-16-2010, 09:29 PM
Ahh metal bats, the main reason college baseball is unwatchable.

traderumor
06-16-2010, 09:42 PM
Ahh metal bats, the main reason college baseball is unwatchable.Yup. Can't stand college baseball.

Red Heeler
06-17-2010, 01:36 AM
I think that laminated wood (or bamboo) bats are the compromise of the future. Laminations are much less likely to break than wood bats. Adhesive technology is such that the wood fibers will break far sooner than the adhesive used in the lamination. If they break, they will come apart like ash bats, rather than fragment as maple is prone to do. The weight to length ratio would be the same as a solid bat. The sweet spot would be similar, too.

It is much more efficient (and more environmentally friendly) to make laminated bats. To make a solid wood bat, it takes a 3" x 3" X 34" blank of clear, straight grained wood. For a laminated bat, it takes (for example) 36 - 1/2" x 1/2" x 34" pieces of straight grained wood. Knots and other minor imperfections in a log can be worked around. The yield of bats per board foot of log would be increased significantly.