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View Full Version : Hello Walt, where are the moves?



brm7675
06-17-2010, 12:24 PM
We know the bullpen needs help, we know players like Ian Snell who is a lefty are available without having to give anything up and now this player is on the market:

The Marlins have designated lefty reliever Renyel Pinto for assignment, tweets MLB.com's Joe Frisaro. The move clears a roster spot for reliever Tim Wood, who was recalled from Triple-A.

Pinto, 27 next month, had a 2.80 ERA in 15.2 innings for Florida this year, striking out 16 to eight walks. He has actually fared better against righthanded batters in his career than lefties. Pinto is owed approximately $640K for the remainder of the season, and he will be under team control for both the 2011 and 2012 seasons.

Why not take a flyer on these guys, they can't be worse then what we have now...

GIDP
06-17-2010, 12:37 PM
Reds are trying to trade for Cliff Lee. They are supposedly offering Votto and Cueto.

I made this up. I do suspect Walt is calling people. He always has made moves in playoff races. I expect this year to be no different.

brm7675
06-17-2010, 12:50 PM
No calls needed for either of the guys I have listed, both are DFA and available without giving anything up. Bringing up a guy from AA is not an answer.


Reds are trying to trade for Cliff Lee. They are supposedly offering Votto and Cueto.

I made this up. I do suspect Walt is calling people. He always has made moves in playoff races. I expect this year to be no different.

Kiss the Baby00
06-17-2010, 12:54 PM
No calls needed for either of the guys I have listed, both are DFA and available without giving anything up. Bringing up a guy from AA is not an answer.

but bringing in a guy who was cast of from the marlins and another cast off from the mariners is the amswer? im gonna guess walt knows what he is doing juuuuuuust a tad bit more than you.

GIDP
06-17-2010, 12:55 PM
No calls needed for either of the guys I have listed, both are DFA and available without giving anything up. Bringing up a guy from AA is not an answer.

There is a protocol he has to wait on. Those guys arent just free to be picked up right now.

Fon Duc Tow
06-17-2010, 01:06 PM
"We will go to war with what we have."

bshall2105
06-17-2010, 01:07 PM
"We will go to war with what we have."

Well than, were screwed.:thumbup:

mound_patrol
06-17-2010, 01:15 PM
There aren't many trade possibilities out there right now, as many teams have yet to waive the white flag. Even the Mariners who are 12.5 games out said they arent giving up yet. The Reds just need to hang around for another month and then we'll see Walt make a few moves.

brm7675
06-17-2010, 01:41 PM
Might be, why not give it a shot? We know we have very limited options in the minors and right now the trade market is very tight so why not give these two guys a shot. We know Snell can pitch in the NL, so he is a no brainer.


but bringing in a guy who was cast of from the marlins and another cast off from the mariners is the amswer? im gonna guess walt knows what he is doing juuuuuuust a tad bit more than you.

mivers176
06-17-2010, 01:53 PM
its simple. make a deal for oswalt now. give up 2 mlb ready guys and one still in a or aa. i'm telling you it will give us the boost we need. we have no answer when facing another team's #1 or #2 most of the time.

brm7675
06-17-2010, 02:06 PM
There is no room in the payroll for someone like Oswalt, so no reason even discussing him or Lee and such.

mivers176
06-17-2010, 02:26 PM
There is no room in the payroll for someone like Oswalt, so no reason even discussing him or Lee and such.

you're right, assuming we keep arroyo & harang. i think at least one if not both will be gone though. there isnt room for Harang's contract but we have him. i'm sure there are things that could get done to make it happen.

brm7675
06-17-2010, 02:38 PM
Even with losing Harrang's contract next season this team doesn't have the monies to get an Oswalt. We need to keep Bronson as we need some vet leadership in that rotation and we need to start locking up players like Votto and Bruce long term. We can't put 15 million towards Oswalt and keep Bronson and ink Votto and Bruce.

markymark69
06-17-2010, 02:49 PM
Well than, were screwed.:thumbup:

Glad to have you on our side. :D

texasdave
06-17-2010, 02:54 PM
Even with losing Harrang's contract next season this team doesn't have the monies to get an Oswalt. We need to keep Bronson as we need some vet leadership in that rotation and we need to start locking up players like Votto and Bruce long term. We can't put 15 million towards Oswalt and keep Bronson and ink Votto and Bruce.

If the Reds traded for Oswalt there would be your veteran leadership. That said, I don't see him ending up in Cincinnati.

The Voice of IH
06-17-2010, 03:15 PM
If the Reds traded for Oswalt there would be your veteran leadership. That said, I don't see him ending up in Cincinnati.

it would also give all of our young talent to an inner division foe...now that would be real smart :p:

brm7675
06-17-2010, 03:33 PM
True but his veteran leadership would cost us signing Votto and Bruce to long term deals were as Bronson's would not.


If the Reds traded for Oswalt there would be your veteran leadership. That said, I don't see him ending up in Cincinnati.

Vottomatic
06-17-2010, 04:46 PM
I'm all for checking out this Pinto guy. Unless his gas tank blows up when you hit him in the rear.

Kingspoint
06-17-2010, 06:42 PM
The moves are internal first.

Walt's doing everything correctly.

First Burton and/or Bray. Then go from there.

brm7675
06-17-2010, 06:47 PM
Why? Burton has not done well so far this season and Bray is an injury waiting to happen. If we wait we lose...


The moves are internal first.

Walt's doing everything correctly.

First Burton and/or Bray. Then go from there.

Kingspoint
06-17-2010, 06:52 PM
Why? Burton has not done well so far this season and Bray is an injury waiting to happen. If we wait we lose...

Everyone is an injury waiting to happen. Burton may or may not get the call-up. That's why I said, Burton and/or Bray.

Bailey is also coming back, and maybe Walt puts him in the pen with LeCure pitching so well. He'll also have the option of using Bailey or LeCure in the pen, though I don't think he'll do either.

I'm sure Walt is on the phone, though, and keeping fliers out there.

Kingspoint
06-17-2010, 06:54 PM
Bringing up a guy from AA is not an answer.

Maybe it is one of the answers. If Jordan Smith can come in w/ runners on base and induce the double-play, then he's part of the solution. That's Jordan Smith's role.

Griffey012
06-17-2010, 06:59 PM
I like how everyone thinks being a GM is like a video game, where you can just make a trade happen for a guy you want whenever you want. As someone else mentioned, many teams are looking to buy because a lot of team still are not out of it yet, hardly anyone is looking to sell. Especially bullpen parts.

Kingspoint
06-17-2010, 07:06 PM
Might be, why not give it a shot? We know we have very limited options in the minors and right now the trade market is very tight so why not give these two guys a shot. We know Snell can pitch in the NL, so he is a no brainer.

We have plenty of options in the minors.

Wood, Maloney, Burton, Bray, Volquez, Bailey, LeCure. And, Fisher and Del Rosario are eventually going to be good Relievers. They didn't do well this time around, but that doesn't mean they won't do well their next attempt.

To expect players to not go through ups and downs as they develop is ignorant. You don't know when a younger pitcher will have a 2-month stretch where he's on the upside until you try him.

The moves that have been made so far have all been the right moves. Del Rosario should have gotten a chance. Fisher and Lincoln should have gotten a chance. Ondrusek has now had two chances and is doing better with his second. Owings has done well overall. But, this is Owings 6th or 7th year pitching, so it's taking him a while (but, he also had a lot less experience so it took him more years).

The length of time it's taken Bailey to pitch successfully is EXACTLY NORMAL, yet he's received nothing but complaints for the last 3 years, even though he's pitched exactly on track to how a pitcher develops in the big leagues.

This isn't Nintendo where you just make trades and get exact results. You have to develop players and take the bad with the good. If you're a small market team like the REDS, you have to have a lot of bad before you get to reap the good (see Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey). So, Del Rosario and Fisher are going to be good Relievers. It may not happen this year, but the experience they've had this year had to be done in order for them to develop.

We're in First Place.

brm7675
06-17-2010, 07:18 PM
I am not asking for Walt to make any trades, both the guys I am suggesting are or would be FA signings, both were released from their teams.

scott91575
06-17-2010, 07:45 PM
I am not asking for Walt to make any trades, both the guys I am suggesting are or would be FA signings, both were released from their teams.

When a guy is DFA'd you don't just raise your hand and yell "Mine!!!! I got dibs!!!" The Marlins have 10 days to try and work a trade. It may not take that long, but that is the timeframe. Then they can either outright release him or place him on waivers. He will probably be put on waivers since if they release him the Marlins would eat his salary anyway. Now you have to go through the waivers process. All this stuff takes time. Wait to see how it plays out before you get all upset with Walt.

Kingspoint
06-17-2010, 08:08 PM
Here's a nice post from Redsof72 to give you an idea of the many restraints involved when trying to change a roster around:

Valiquette is on the 40 man and he has a great arm, although inconsistent. They want to see what he can do in case they need him. The 40-man situation right now is important. They have a full roster. Once Hanigan comes back, they can DFA Corky and that opens one spot for Volquez, Dickerson, or a minor leaguer if they need one. Outside of that, they would lose a player if they have to activate someone off the 60-day DL or call up a player who is not on the 40-man. So they need to see what Valiquette can do. Krebs does not throw hard enough to be a priority, although he has done all you could ask of him. He is more of an organizational guy right now. I am told that there is some support for considering Reineke or Delgado, and neither is on the 40-man. There are some who believe that those two guys are the two best pitchers on the Louisville club right now.

As far as showcasing, there could be a trade brewing (prospects for bullpen help) but the showcasing would not involve a player moved to the big leagues for that purpose. Too much at stake. Every inning could be the inning that, in the end, determines the fate of this year's team (and the coaching staff). No way is Dusty going to mess around with that. He has too much on the line personally. Smith got hot in Double-A and they called him up to see if he could help.

Vottomatic
06-17-2010, 08:41 PM
We know the bullpen needs help, we know players like Ian Snell who is a lefty are available without having to give anything up and now this player is on the market:

The Marlins have designated lefty reliever Renyel Pinto for assignment, tweets MLB.com's Joe Frisaro. The move clears a roster spot for reliever Tim Wood, who was recalled from Triple-A.

Pinto, 27 next month, had a 2.80 ERA in 15.2 innings for Florida this year, striking out 16 to eight walks. He has actually fared better against righthanded batters in his career than lefties. Pinto is owed approximately $640K for the remainder of the season, and he will be under team control for both the 2011 and 2012 seasons.

Why not take a flyer on these guys, they can't be worse then what we have now...

Pinto apparently has DRH's problem. He's a lefty that is not getting lefties out. Lefties are hitting .364 against him this year. Righties are hitting .190 against him. Weird. He's also walked 9 in only 16.2 innings with a WHIP of 1.50.

Still, his career numbers speak otherwise. This is his 5th season.

2006 30 IP, 20 hits, 27 walks, 36 K's, .190 BAA, 3.03 ERA
2007 59 IP, 45 hits, 32 walks, 56 K's, .222 BAA, 3.68 ERA
2008 65 IP, 52 hits, 39 walks, 56 K's, .226 BAA, 4.45 ERA
2009 61 IP, 53 hits, 45 walks, 58 K's, .237 BAA, 3.23 ERA
2010 17 IP, 16 hits, 9 walks, 16 K's, .250 BAA, 2.70 ERA

Career WHIP of 1.46. Career against lefties, .253 BAA, against righties .209 BAA.

Roush's socks
06-18-2010, 02:32 AM
We have plenty of options in the minors.

Wood, Maloney, Burton, Bray, Volquez, Bailey, LeCure. And, Fisher and Del Rosario are eventually going to be good Relievers. They didn't do well this time around, but that doesn't mean they won't do well their next attempt.

To expect players to not go through ups and downs as they develop is ignorant. You don't know when a younger pitcher will have a 2-month stretch where he's on the upside until you try him.

The moves that have been made so far have all been the right moves. Del Rosario should have gotten a chance. Fisher and Lincoln should have gotten a chance. Ondrusek has now had two chances and is doing better with his second. Owings has done well overall. But, this is Owings 6th or 7th year pitching, so it's taking him a while (but, he also had a lot less experience so it took him more years).

The length of time it's taken Bailey to pitch successfully is EXACTLY NORMAL, yet he's received nothing but complaints for the last 3 years, even though he's pitched exactly on track to how a pitcher develops in the big leagues.

This isn't Nintendo where you just make trades and get exact results. You have to develop players and take the bad with the good. If you're a small market team like the REDS, you have to have a lot of bad before you get to reap the good (see Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey). So, Del Rosario and Fisher are going to be good Relievers. It may not happen this year, but the experience they've had this year had to be done in order for them to develop.

We're in First Place.

Agree with this post. The Reds need to focus on signing their young talent like Votto to long term contracts. Stay patient and develop your talent. Over-paying for over the hill free agents or trades is what KILLS franchises.

Mr Larkin
06-18-2010, 02:38 AM
but bringing in a guy who was cast of from the marlins and another cast off from the mariners is the amswer? im gonna guess walt knows what he is doing juuuuuuust a tad bit more than you.

Well said.

Mr Larkin
06-18-2010, 02:43 AM
Well than, were screwed.:thumbup:

I disagree.

bshall2105
06-18-2010, 03:27 AM
I disagree.

Who's going to be the guy to help us then? I just don't see it.

MotownRed
06-18-2010, 08:07 AM
We know the bullpen needs help, we know players like Ian Snell who is a lefty are available without having to give anything up and now this player is on the market:

The Marlins have designated lefty reliever Renyel Pinto for assignment, tweets MLB.com's Joe Frisaro. The move clears a roster spot for reliever Tim Wood, who was recalled from Triple-A.

Pinto, 27 next month, had a 2.80 ERA in 15.2 innings for Florida this year, striking out 16 to eight walks. He has actually fared better against righthanded batters in his career than lefties. Pinto is owed approximately $640K for the remainder of the season, and he will be under team control for both the 2011 and 2012 seasons.

Why not take a flyer on these guys, they can't be worse then what we have now...


Ian Snell is a righty.