PDA

View Full Version : Can anyone explain these Dusty moves



brm7675
06-17-2010, 03:55 PM
1. You have a 6 run lead, your starter goes 7. It's the 8th and you bring in the one arm that is doing well but is 40 years old to pitch again?

2. Your leadoff hitter is now down below .300 in his OBP, yet your no. 2 guy is almost near .400, why not switch the two?

3. Why can't Janish or Heisley see any kind of playing time?

Krawhitham
06-17-2010, 04:03 PM
at what point do you play Heisley over Stubbs

Rhodes has not pitches in 5 days, you have to keep him sharp

You do not move a guy with a bad wheel into the #1 hole

GIDP
06-17-2010, 04:09 PM
at what point do you play Heisley over Stubbs

Rhodes has not pitches in 5 days, you have to keep him sharp

You do not move a guy with a bad wheel into the #1 hole

Speed means everything, but even if you think it means enough to continue to get sub .300 OBP guys Im gonna say Brandon with 2 bad wheels is faster than Ocab.

RedsFanInBama
06-17-2010, 04:09 PM
1. You have a 6 run lead, your starter goes 7. It's the 8th and you bring in the one arm that is doing well but is 40 years old to pitch again?

2. Your leadoff hitter is now down below .300 in his OBP, yet your no. 2 guy is almost near .400, why not switch the two?

3. Why can't Janish or Heisley see any kind of playing time?

1. I don't have a problem necessarily with that beef, although it had been several days since Rhodes had pitched.

2. Why mess with it? Phillips is not a leadoff hitter. Neither is Stubbs for that matter. Cabrera is there because really we have no one else to do it.

3. Janish plays as much as he should, giving Cabrera or Rolen days off. Who is Heisey going to replace? If you're giving up on Stubbs, fine. But if not, he needs to keep playing.

malcontent
06-17-2010, 04:12 PM
at what point do you play Heisley over Stubbs
Now would be a good time.

I like Stubbs, but I think Heisey might give this team a spark.

Krawhitham
06-17-2010, 04:15 PM
Speed means everything, but even if you think it means enough to continue to get sub .300 OBP guys Im gonna say Brandon with 2 bad wheels is faster than Ocab.

Yeah but if he tweaks that bad wheel he is on the DL for a couple weeks, If he is leading off he will push harder on the bases and could get hurt

GIDP
06-17-2010, 04:16 PM
Id rather start Heisey over Gomes, but a lot of others dont value defense.

GIDP
06-17-2010, 04:16 PM
Yeah but if he tweaks that bad wheel he is on the DL for a couple weeks, If he is leading off he will push harder on the bases and could get hurt

Its clearly hobbled him to a slow crawl so far. That being said I dont care if hes batting 2nd.

Krawhitham
06-17-2010, 04:17 PM
Who is Heisey going to replace? If you're giving up on Stubbs, fine. But if not, he needs to keep playing.


They are both 25 years old, are we giving up on Heisey by playing Stubbs all the time?

RedsFanInBama
06-17-2010, 04:20 PM
They are both 25 years old, are we giving up on Heisey by playing Stubbs all the time?

I don't know if giving up is the right word. Stubbs obviously being a first rounder and drawing a big bonus is going to be given a much longer leash than other guys not in his position. I'm not saying that's right, but that's how it is. It's not a platoon situation and with them being young players, basically you've got to pick a guy and go with him.

Who knows what happens when Dickerson gets back and you add him to the mix. Regardless of defense, I'm not comfortable taking Gomes out of the lineup with the way he has produced this season.

Vottomatic
06-17-2010, 04:38 PM
Speed means everything, but even if you think it means enough to continue to get sub .300 OBP guys Im gonna say Brandon with 2 bad wheels is faster than Ocab.

OCab is 9 for 9 on steal attempts this year. But actually I agree about the low OBP for the leadoff hitter. Seems like he's in a funk right now and not getting on base.

brm7675
06-17-2010, 04:41 PM
How would batting Phillips in leadoff over the 2 spot cause more harm to his leg? If his leg is that tender he shouldn't be playing till he is 100%. With Heisey, why not rotate him and Stubbs some and let him give Bruce a day off here and there and the same with Johnny C?

Vottomatic
06-17-2010, 04:42 PM
Stubbs needs a break. He K'd twice more today. He's tied for 7th in the major leagues in K's by hitters.

Give Heisey some playing time. If this is political and salary/bonus driven, I'll lose respect for management on that one. Give Heisey some playing time..........and more than one lousy start every two weeks. Ridiculous.

RedsFanInBama
06-17-2010, 04:43 PM
If this is political and salary/bonus driven, I'll lose respect for management on that one.
What else would it be? Heisey seems to perform well when given a chance. Plus put his and Stubbs' numbers side-by-side through the minors and Heisey outperforms him in nearly every category.

bounty37h
06-17-2010, 04:49 PM
Was hoping this thread had video of dusty on a dancefloor somewhere...

Krawhitham
06-17-2010, 04:54 PM
Id rather start Heisey over Gomes, but a lot of others dont value defense.

OK that is insane

Gomes has a Vorp of 23 (26th in MLB) this season (60 games)

His URZ last season was -6.1 for 101 games

That is a net gain of 52 runs over 162 games

Stubbs Vorp is 6.5 this season the exact same as Heisey, but Heisey did it in 37 less games

VORPr basically VORP per game
Stubbs 0.113
Heisey 0.679

Heisey can not keep that rate up but he can surly double Stubbs' .113

Griffey012
06-17-2010, 05:12 PM
1. You have a 6 run lead, your starter goes 7. It's the 8th and you bring in the one arm that is doing well but is 40 years old to pitch again?

2. Your leadoff hitter is now down below .300 in his OBP, yet your no. 2 guy is almost near .400, why not switch the two?

3. Why can't Janish or Heisley see any kind of playing time?

1. I was surprised to see the Dodgers not get Broxton an inning in today, Marty even made a comment he expected to see him either way. Gotta stay fresh, its the same thing Dusty gets ripped for with Owings.

2. It's a collective lineup of 8 guys and a pitcher. The goal is to maximize the results. Phillips is OPS'ing .892 in the 2 hole with a .389 OBP, OCab is OPS'ing .693 with a .314 OBP in the leadoff spot. Batting in front of the pitcher, OCab probably gets many more AB's with nobody on base than BPhil. And with BPhil being the better hitter, you want to minimize those spots for him. The goal of the first 2 guys is to get on for Votto, Rolen, and Co...so it doesn't matter is OCab gets in front of Phillips or Phillips gets on in front of Ocab as long as someone gets on in front of those guys.

3. I would be fine with seeing Janish a bit more, the rest of the outfield has been playing pretty well, not sure where Heisey fits in at playing time wise.

ThornWithin81
06-17-2010, 05:23 PM
Heisey should replace Stubbs, not Gomes. Why would anyone think otherwise?

Griffey012
06-17-2010, 05:31 PM
OK that is insane

Gomes has a Vorp of 23 (26th in MLB) this season (60 games)

His URZ last season was -6.1 for 101 games

That is a net gain of 52 runs over 162 games

Stubbs Vorp is 6.5 this season the exact same as Heisey, but Heisey did it in 37 less games

VORPr basically VORP per game
Stubbs 0.113
Heisey 0.679

Heisey can not keep that rate up but he can surly double Stubbs' .113

That's not the proper way to interpret VORP.

According to wikipedia:

VORP = (Heisey's runs created) - (league avg runs per out)*(players outs)*(replacement level).

So basically Heisey has produced 6.5 more runs than a typical 4/5th outfielder would in 41 PA's. Mostly due to his unattainable 1.186 OPS. If he doubled Stubbs that would put him at a VORP of 13. Stubbs is 17th in the MLB among CF'ers in VORP. And you have to remember, he got off to a pretty putrid start.

Outfielders with a VORP between 12.5-13.5:
Austin Jackson
Angel Pagan
Franklin Guitierrez
Tyler Colvin
Matt Holliday
Manny
Ryan Ludwick
Shane Victorino

Heisey is definitely not in that range of players, except maybe Pagan.

Stubbs is OPS'ing .890 in the 7 spot, which would probably put him around a 17-20 VORP.

Griffey012
06-17-2010, 05:32 PM
Heisey should replace Stubbs, not Gomes. Why would anyone think otherwise?

I have to ask why he should replace Stubbs?

swaisuc
06-17-2010, 05:43 PM
I'm not in the camp that Heisey should take Gomes' job or Stubbs' job, but I am in the camp that they have plenty of AB's to go around for 4 outfielders and Heisey deservers more of them.

In related news, Heisey better get some serious playing time this weekend with Gomes at DH.

brm7675
06-17-2010, 05:57 PM
Over the next 6 games Heisey should play in 4, get Nix in for 2 and leave Gomes at DH for all 6.



I'm not in the camp that Heisey should take Gomes' job or Stubbs' job, but I am in the camp that they have plenty of AB's to go around for 4 outfielders and Heisey deservers more of them.

In related news, Heisey better get some serious playing time this weekend with Gomes at DH.

RedsFanInBama
06-17-2010, 05:58 PM
In related news, Heisey better get some serious playing time this weekend with Gomes at DH.

I hope you're right, but I've got a feeling we're about to see a lot of Nix. I could be wrong.

Kingspoint
06-17-2010, 07:11 PM
Heisey will have as good a career as Stubbs.

But, Stubbs is a year ahead of him.

Heisey will get the at-bats next season, and get just as many, if not more, than Stubbs.

bshall2105
06-18-2010, 04:14 AM
I hope you're right, but I've got a feeling we're about to see a lot of Nix. I could be wrong.

Yes, we're definetely going to be seeing Nix in left. It would surprise me if Heisey got more than one start on the trip.

Vottomatic
06-18-2010, 04:18 AM
I have nothing against Stubbs, other than he strikes out alot. He's currently 7th in MLB in total strikeouts this season.

I think Heisey should play about half the time in CF. Just my strong opinion.

And I think he should bat 7th, just like Stubbs to take pressure off of him.

bshall2105
06-18-2010, 04:21 AM
I have nothing against Stubbs, other than he strikes out alot. He's currently 7th in MLB in total strikeouts this season.

I think Heisey should play about half the time in CF. Just my strong opinion.

And I think he should bat 7th, just like Stubbs to take pressure off of him.

CF is also where I would put Stubbs. I don't get why people want to give our leader in RBI's job to Heisey. The offense loses too much with out Jonny in the lineup.