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View Full Version : If the Reds make a move, what's needed more?



REDblooded
06-20-2010, 10:52 PM
Up until the past week, I thought the Reds needed to go out and land a 1/2 slot arm... After this week, I'm more of the mindset that the Reds need to land a bat that can anchor this line-up... The Cards are surging now due to Holliday warming up... The majority of this Reds line-up though is filled with very streaky hitters... If too many go cold at the same time, we just don't put runs on the board...

Who would you like to see the Reds target?

One guy that comes to mind for me is Julio Borbon... I know teams are a bit hesitant to trade youngsters, but him and Stubbs have the same amount of service time, Stubbs is from Texas, and Borbon could provide a bit more speed at the top of the line-up... Maybe tossing in a low-level prospect could get a deal like that done... From there, without spending much at all on the Borbon deal, I would love to see them open up the prospect wallet on a power bat...

OnBaseMachine
06-20-2010, 11:00 PM
Drew Stubbs - age 25:

.242/.316/.401 - .717 OPS, 14-for-17 in stolen bases

Julio Borbon - age 24

.294/.319/.373 - .692 OPS, 8-for-14 in stolen bases

That's a lateral move at best. I would rather have Stubbs.

REDblooded
06-20-2010, 11:01 PM
Drew Stubbs - age 25:

.242/.316/.401 - .717 OPS, 14-for-17 in stolen bases

Julio Borbon - age 24

.294/.319/.373 - .692 OPS, 8-for-14 in stolen bases

I would rather have Stubbs.

Both have rebounded nicely from slow starts... Borbon had a pretty solid season in 09 though...

Razor Shines
06-20-2010, 11:04 PM
Stubbs is having a better season than Borbon. I don't really see him making much of a difference. Maybe we could some how trick the Rangers into trading us Hamilton back. I was just thinking today that if the Reds had Hamilton in LF they'd probably have far and away the best defensive outfield in baseball.

Not that I regret the trade we need Volquez.

REDblooded
06-20-2010, 11:23 PM
Delmon Young is another player I would kick the tires on... Historically a second half hitter, but came into this season finally carrying the PROPER chip on his shoulder, is off to a great start, and plays pretty solid defense with a rocket arm...

Will M
06-20-2010, 11:33 PM
just my opinion but the offensive slump has just been a recent issue whereas the pitching has been the main issue this season.

add pitching. get two arms in addition to the the calvary from the minors (Volquez etc)

the offensive slump seems to have conincided with Hanigan's broken thumb & Cabrera's bum ankle. a healthy Hanigan & Hernandez is better than Hernandez likely playing too much & Corky as the backup.
DL Cabrera. let his ankle heal. use Janish at SS & maybe callup Sutton for the bench. IF this doesn't work and the team is still in the hunt then maybe we need a SS

REDblooded
06-20-2010, 11:35 PM
just my opinion but the offensive slump has just been a recent issue whereas the pitching has been the main issue this season.

add pitching. get two arms in addition to the the calvary from the minors (Volquez etc)

the offensive slump seems to have conincided with Hanigan's broken thumb & Cabrera's bum ankle. a healthy Hanigan & Hernandez is better than Hernandez likely playing too much & Corky as the backup.
DL Cabrera. let his ankle heal. use Janish at SS & maybe callup Sutton for the bench. IF this doesn't work and the team is still in the hunt then maybe we need a SS

Stephen Drew?

Will M
06-20-2010, 11:43 PM
Stephen Drew?

He would be a strong addition to the club. I've wanted the team to deal for him since it was rumored ~1 year ago that he could be available in the right deal. one problem is that the team only has so many trade chips. while we could get a couple of decent relievers for very little (say A ball players or salary relief) adding Cliff Lee, Haren, S Drew or some other real player is going to cost some actual talent. if we could only get one guy I'd pick Haren.

REDblooded
06-22-2010, 11:18 PM
Another player I'd like to see the Reds kick the tires on is Minny C Wilson Ramos...

edabbs44
06-22-2010, 11:21 PM
Another player I'd like to see the Reds kick the tires on is Minny C Wilson Ramos...

He's being mentioned as a potential piece in a deal for someone like Cliff Lee. He won't be coming to Cincy.

REDblooded
06-23-2010, 01:21 PM
He's being mentioned as a potential piece in a deal for someone like Cliff Lee. He won't be coming to Cincy.

I just don't see Minny making the move for Cliff Lee... Could happen, but it really hasn't been the Twins M.O.

Joseph
06-23-2010, 01:39 PM
I just don't see Minny making the move for Cliff Lee... Could happen, but it really hasn't been the Twins M.O.

The sons running the show now after years of a tight pocketed Carl Pohlad ran things. He's much more open to spending and adding money to the payroll sometimes.

Mario-Rijo
06-23-2010, 03:08 PM
Delmon Young is another player I would kick the tires on... Historically a second half hitter, but came into this season finally carrying the PROPER chip on his shoulder, is off to a great start, and plays pretty solid defense with a rocket arm...

Not a very good defender when I have seen him play and not really an upgrade IMO.

I don't believe at all the Reds will make a deal for a bat. They may deal for a UT type guy who hits LH like Craig Counsell (with Janish going to AAA), I could see that. But I don't see them displacing any of their starters on offense, I think they think they are ok there sans an injury of some sort.

Pitching OTOH could be a possibility though most likely just a veteran RHP for the back of the pen. Unless of course they can get Burton back ok or get Masset straightened out or both (that would be really nice). They could definitely use an ace but I think they feel if they can Edinson back ok with Cueto and Arroyo they will ride that out and see where it takes them. Edinson can be the ACE if he pitches like he did the year before and with a little aggressiveness.

nemesis
06-23-2010, 03:17 PM
The sons running the show now after years of a tight pocketed Carl Pohlad ran things. He's much more open to spending and adding money to the payroll sometimes.

That shiny new stadium has helped that team's revenue situation greatly. I often wonder if Bob instead of Carl had been the owner of the team when this stadium was opened what might have been. Carl looked at it as a way to make a bigger profit from it's newness by restricting payroll vs using the funds to aquire better talent, Bob would have but better talent on the field to create a better product that that fans would buy and then would profit from it.

I mean the year this team opened a brand new state of the art facility, they had a firesale. Hardly the idea when the taxpayers approved the funding. Minnesota is the best ran franchise in baseball. Develop talent from within. Finds ways to keep the top crust of the talent and if they can't, they go get quality players in the trade of said player and need in return. Now with that stadium have the resources to go out and make a deal line deal with said Minor League talent to be even more compeitive... Great Franchise.

schroomytunes
06-24-2010, 09:47 AM
I think Walt's waiting for Bray, Bailey, Volquez, and Chapman to emerge from the minors to round out the pitching staff. These guys can make a huge impact when healthy!!! So with that in mind I think we need a bat of the bench, perferably an OF. The guy I like is Scott Podsednik(KC) he can play all 3 spots and is a solid base stealer to boot. This would allow us to drop Nix from the roster. I think it adds more flexability to the bench than Nix brings!

nate
06-24-2010, 09:57 AM
The Reds need pitching both of the starting and relief variety.

They could also use a good defender at SS...I wonder if there's anyone out there.

They need both the things sooner rather than later.

edabbs44
06-24-2010, 10:24 AM
The Reds need pitching both of the starting and relief variety.

They could also use a good defender at SS...I wonder if there's anyone out there.

They need both the things sooner rather than later.

I would put relief pitching at the top of the list. Way far ahead of anything else. The number of arms is the only thing in question and it would depend on their plan. I'd be looking at both Chapman and Homer in the pen, which may only mean they need one top bullpen guy.

I think we can all agree that there is probably something wrong with Cabrera right now and he needs to be DLed. The Cabrera of the last few weeks is not what anyone expects out of him, even the most extreme OC haters.

pahster
06-24-2010, 10:48 AM
I think we can all agree that there is probably something wrong with Cabrera right now and he needs to be DLed. The Cabrera of the last few weeks is not what anyone expects out of him, even the most extreme OC haters.

I'd hardly consider myself a Cabrera "hater," but his offensive production this season has only been slightly worse than what I expected. I don't think it was reasonable to expect him to be able to do much with the bat given his age and lack of general offensive talent.

His defense, on the other hand, has been all world awful. I expected him to be slightly below average, not 40 year old Rich Aurillia.

edabbs44
06-24-2010, 11:01 AM
I'd hardly consider myself a Cabrera "hater," but his offensive production this season has only been slightly worse than what I expected. I don't think it was reasonable to expect him to be able to do much with the bat given his age and lack of general offensive talent.

His defense, on the other hand, has been all world awful. I expected him to be slightly below average, not 40 year old Rich Aurillia.

I don't know, UZR is saying he is basically flat so that means he isn't all world awful.

And I think his offense pre-injury is where he should have been expected, in the .700ish OPS range, give or take. The last three weeks have destroyed his overall numbers and I don't think it is fair to say that his overall numbers right now are representative of a healthy Cabrera.

pahster
06-24-2010, 11:24 AM
I don't know, UZR is saying he is basically flat so that means he isn't all world awful.

And I think his offense pre-injury is where he should have been expected, in the .700ish OPS range, give or take. The last three weeks have destroyed his overall numbers and I don't think it is fair to say that his overall numbers right now are representative of a healthy Cabrera.

Oh, I don't think his .600 OPS is what he should be producing. The thing is, I don't think he should be much better; maybe .650ish. Maybe. He's just not a good hitter and he's getting kind of old. Even when he was hitting "well," he still wasn't doing much.

As for UZR, I don't think much of it, especially for partial seasons. I can buy it as an ordinal measure with large confidence intervals, but the point estimates are suspect. His arm and hands are pretty good, but he's seemingly got less than fall down range.

I'm not big on the Janish boosting, but I see no reason why he shouldn't be playing over Cabrera right now. It's unfortunate that Cozart seems to have cooled down so much down in Louisville. He can't get here soon enough.

TRF
06-24-2010, 12:09 PM
The offense is fine. I'd be scouring all of baseball for upgrades to the pen. Maybe that help is in house, Volquez to the rotation, LeCure to the pen, Chapman, Bailey, Maloney, Wood, Valiquette, Bray... but I'd be looking nonetheless.

I'd "interview" Elijah Dukes. Yes, he's seen two teams ship him out, but none of them had the team dynamic the Reds have. He's got a ton of talent and would be at least worth a minor league contract IF the Reds FO think he's matured. He's young and he has to realize he's seeing millions slip away.

The last week has seen the Reds SP putting up some very decent numbers. But I'd still think about a blockbuster for Cliff Lee or a smaller package for Carmona. I get an uneasy feeling about Haren for some reason. He's giving up a lot of HR's, and a lot of hits in general. could be bad luck, and he is a TOR arm. I wouldn't be upset if the Reds get him at all, just slightly uneasy.

Falls City Beer
06-24-2010, 12:12 PM
I think they'll be able to sort out the pen in house. Get a TOR starter. For innumerable reasons, not just this season. Clear out the minor league pantry to land him.

OnBaseMachine
06-24-2010, 12:17 PM
I agree that a top-of-rotation starter is needed the most, however, this team also needs another reliever and an upgrade at shortstop. A Dan Haren, Cliff Lee, or Roy Oswalt makes this team the favorites in the Central, IMO. Upgrade shortstop too and they may become favorites to go deep in the playoffs. Chapman would be untouchable but I'd trade any other prospect in the system to acquire a TOR starter.

mdccclxix
06-24-2010, 03:25 PM
It would be really nice if Frazier was hitting .335 this year and ready to burst into the majors because if Rolen goes down, or anyone from the starting lineup, we could be in trouble.

We'd be hoping that Frazier, Francisco, Sutton, Valaika, Alonso or Burke could come off the bench or carry some starts. Not real rosy scenario.

That said, if you get a TOR arm, you can mitigate a drop off on offense. It's the best place to look with the big 3 that are available.

edabbs44
06-24-2010, 03:28 PM
I agree that a top-of-rotation starter is needed the most, however, this team also needs another reliever and an upgrade at shortstop. A Dan Haren, Cliff Lee, or Roy Oswalt makes this team the favorites in the Central, IMO. Upgrade shortstop too and they may become favorites to go deep in the playoffs. Chapman would be untouchable but I'd trade any other prospect in the system to acquire a TOR starter.

My guess is it will take Chapman to get any of those guys. I'm not sure that Cincy has the ammo to land a top starter.

Kc61
06-24-2010, 03:36 PM
My guess is it will take Chapman to get any of those guys. I'm not sure that Cincy has the ammo to land a top starter.

Bailey (if healthy), Wood, Francisco, Alonso, Mesoraco, Cozart, Heisey. I think the Reds could get a TOR rental for some combo of that group. And if they are in the running, they just might do it.

Right now, the Reds should be willing to sacrifice anyone on the farm beyond Chapman and maybe the teenage guys like Rodriguez and Duran.

The team looks to be entering a winning phase. This is when you trade prospects for now.

For a rental, I'm confident they have enough if they choose to pull the trigger.

nemesis
06-24-2010, 03:37 PM
The Reds upgrading SS via Trade is a pipe dream. I believe the FO and especially Dusty have complete faith that Cabrera is the guy. If we played a drinking game on how many times a blogger has commented on all his playoff teams he's been on, or veteran savy, all of RZ would be smashed. Plus who is really avalible that is a upgrade? Drew is the only one off the top of my head that would be an upgrade.

I could see a situation with the money the team saves letting Cabrera, Bronson and Aaron walk this season, going after Drew or Reyes who'll both be a Type A next year. Both worthy of giving up that mid 20 something pick up for.

Kc61
06-24-2010, 03:39 PM
The Reds upgrading SS via Trade is a pipe dream. I believe the FO and especially Dusty have complete faith that Cabrera is the guy. If we played a drinking game on how many times a blogger has commented on all his playoff teams he's been on, or veteran savy, all of RZ would be smashed. Plus who is really avalible that is a upgrade? Drew is the only one off the top of my head that would be an upgrade.

I could see a situation with the money the team saves letting Cabrera, Bronson and Aaron walk this season, going after Drew or Reyes who'll both be a Type A next year. Both worthy of giving up that mid 20 something pick up for.

I'd like an upgrade at shortstop but the stats overall tell me that pitching is the main area of concern.

The beauty in the Reds' situation is that they have a good chance of re-signing any TOR rental they acquire. Or, if not, a replacement from the free agent market.

With Harang and Arroyo coming off the books next year, the Reds will have "cap room" and can add one TOR starter without increasing payroll. And Walt has a track record of picking up rentals and keeping them.

nemesis
06-24-2010, 03:42 PM
Bailey (if healthy), Wood, Francisco, Alonso, Mesoraco, Cozart, Heisey. I think the Reds could get a TOR rental for some combo of that group. And if they are in the running, they just might do it.

Right now, the Reds should be willing to sacrifice anyone on the farm beyond Chapman and maybe the teenage guys like Rodriguez and Duran.

The team looks to be entering a winning phase. This is when you trade prospects for now.

For a rental, I'm confident they have enough if they choose to pull the trigger.

Mesorasco joins on my Chapman, Joseph, Yorman... untouchable list. Way to much of a need on the Major League club and not even a week past his 22nd birthday. Could end up as a top 25 prospect by years in in all of baseball. Team has put way to much faith, time and effort to move him now that it is all paying off.

Kc61
06-24-2010, 03:47 PM
Mesorasco joins on my Chapman, Joseph, Yorman... untouchable list. Way to much of a need on the Major League club and not even a week past his 22nd birthday. Could end up as a top 25 prospect by years in in all of baseball. Team has put way to much faith, time and effort to move him now that it is all paying off.

Reluctantly, for a Cliff Lee rental I would include Mesoraco.
Of course, only if the Reds are solidly in the race with a good chance for the playoffs.

Reds just drafted a catcher in the first round. Are we stockpiling young backstops or trying to make the playoffs?

Of course, I would try to keep a talent like Mesoraco. But at some point expect the Reds to start sacrificing these prospects to try and win now. I'd be surprised if it doesn't happen real soon.

Hoosier Red
06-24-2010, 04:01 PM
I'm starting to wonder if the Reds are almost too good at all their positions. This sounds odd but let me try to explain.

IF Massett has turned things around especially, a bullpen of Cordero, Rhodes, Massett, Lecure, Smith, Bray and Owings strikes me as a decent group. If you trade for someone, especially a non closer, how many more wins would that be worth?

Similarly, the lineup is very good. Aside from Cabrera, who is neither as good as he started at leadoff nor as bad as he's been in the past week, if you trade for a LF, C, or SS who is going to be an improvement over what we've got? And how many wins would that improvement be worth?

Obviously there are spots on the bench which can be improved, but how much of an impact is a stronger bench?

The Starting Rotation is soon going to have Edinson Volquez, Bronson Arroyo(6-1, 3.52 ERA in last 10 starts,) Johnny Cueto(6-1, 3.39ERA in last 10 starts,) Aaron Harang(4-4,4.25 ERA in last 10 starts,) and Mike Leake(3-1, 2.77 ERA in last 10 starts)
Even if Leake needs some extra rest or Volquez falters, The Reds still have Homer Bailey, Travis Wood, and Aroldis Chapman ready to step in.

If they trade for someone, even someone who is a little bit better, how many wins of improvement are we talking about?

My point is the Reds are in second place because everyone is playing pretty well, and really there's no true weak spot on the team. If you trade away prospects, I'm not sure who you'll get that is significantly (Say 2 wins or more over 3 months) better than what they already have.

Brutus
06-24-2010, 04:03 PM
Bullpen first and foremost.

A top tier starter if possible.

Shortstop could really come in handy.

Kc61
06-24-2010, 04:07 PM
My point is the Reds are in second place because everyone is playing pretty well, and really there's no true weak spot on the team. If you trade away prospects, I'm not sure who you'll get that is significantly (Say 2 wins or more over 3 months) better than what they already have.


A top of the rotation starter would be a major improvement. When facing top pitchers down the stretch, I'm not sure Reds have the top tier pitcher who can successfully compete.

Add Volquez and a TOR starter from the outside - instead of the Harang and Lecure spots - and you have quite a rotation.

Falls City Beer
06-24-2010, 04:10 PM
I'm starting to wonder if the Reds are almost too good at all their positions. This sounds odd but let me try to explain.

IF Massett has turned things around especially, a bullpen of Cordero, Rhodes, Massett, Lecure, Smith, Bray and Owings strikes me as a decent group. If you trade for someone, especially a non closer, how many more wins would that be worth?

Similarly, the lineup is very good. Aside from Cabrera, who is neither as good as he started at leadoff nor as bad as he's been in the past week, if you trade for a LF, C, or SS who is going to be an improvement over what we've got? And how many wins would that improvement be worth?

Obviously there are spots on the bench which can be improved, but how much of an impact is a stronger bench?

The Starting Rotation is soon going to have Edinson Volquez, Bronson Arroyo(6-1, 3.52 ERA in last 10 starts,) Johnny Cueto(6-1, 3.39ERA in last 10 starts,) Aaron Harang(4-4,4.25 ERA in last 10 starts,) and Mike Leake(3-1, 2.77 ERA in last 10 starts)
Even if Leake needs some extra rest or Volquez falters, The Reds still have Homer Bailey, Travis Wood, and Aroldis Chapman ready to step in.

If they trade for someone, even someone who is a little bit better, how many wins of improvement are we talking about?

My point is the Reds are in second place because everyone is playing pretty well, and really there's no true weak spot on the team. If you trade away prospects, I'm not sure who you'll get that is significantly (Say 2 wins or more over 3 months) better than what they already have.

It's an interesting thought, but when you consider that Arroyo and Harang probably aren't going to improve on their current level of performance--and one is likely to slide some; when you consider no one has any notion what Volquez will provide; when you consider Bailey is terrible, Wood isn't ready and neither is Chapman to start; when you consider all of that, an ace really would be a plum addition.

Further, they'll have to have other starters when Harang and Arroyo leave next year.

Nevertheless, I doubt we'll see the Reds trade for a starter.

edabbs44
06-24-2010, 04:18 PM
Bailey (if healthy), Wood, Francisco, Alonso, Mesoraco, Cozart, Heisey. I think the Reds could get a TOR rental for some combo of that group. And if they are in the running, they just might do it.

Right now, the Reds should be willing to sacrifice anyone on the farm beyond Chapman and maybe the teenage guys like Rodriguez and Duran.

The team looks to be entering a winning phase. This is when you trade prospects for now.

For a rental, I'm confident they have enough if they choose to pull the trigger.

Yeah, that's where I disagree. One top minor leaguer is worth at least 3 middle tier ones. The Reds don't have that name that will trump everyone, unless Chapman is available (which he isn't).

It really would help if Alonso was producing. Perfect trade chip.

Hoosier Red
06-24-2010, 04:21 PM
It's an interesting thought, but when you consider that Arroyo and Harang probably aren't going to improve on their current level of performance--and one is likely to slide some; when you consider no one has any notion what Volquez will provide; when you consider Bailey is terrible, Wood isn't ready and neither is Chapman to start; when you consider all of that, an ace really would be a plum addition.

Further, they'll have to have other starters when Harang and Arroyo leave next year.

Nevertheless, I doubt we'll see the Reds trade for a starter.

Well an Ace is the most obvious spot where an improvement could come I agree.
Just curious why you think a)Harang and/or Arroyo are likely to slide, and b)Wood isn't ready?

bucksfan2
06-24-2010, 04:26 PM
I'm starting to wonder if the Reds are almost too good at all their positions. This sounds odd but let me try to explain.

IF Massett has turned things around especially, a bullpen of Cordero, Rhodes, Massett, Lecure, Smith, Bray and Owings strikes me as a decent group. If you trade for someone, especially a non closer, how many more wins would that be worth?

Similarly, the lineup is very good. Aside from Cabrera, who is neither as good as he started at leadoff nor as bad as he's been in the past week, if you trade for a LF, C, or SS who is going to be an improvement over what we've got? And how many wins would that improvement be worth?

Obviously there are spots on the bench which can be improved, but how much of an impact is a stronger bench?

The Starting Rotation is soon going to have Edinson Volquez, Bronson Arroyo(6-1, 3.52 ERA in last 10 starts,) Johnny Cueto(6-1, 3.39ERA in last 10 starts,) Aaron Harang(4-4,4.25 ERA in last 10 starts,) and Mike Leake(3-1, 2.77 ERA in last 10 starts)
Even if Leake needs some extra rest or Volquez falters, The Reds still have Homer Bailey, Travis Wood, and Aroldis Chapman ready to step in.

If they trade for someone, even someone who is a little bit better, how many wins of improvement are we talking about?

My point is the Reds are in second place because everyone is playing pretty well, and really there's no true weak spot on the team. If you trade away prospects, I'm not sure who you'll get that is significantly (Say 2 wins or more over 3 months) better than what they already have.

It is something that I have thought about. There are several positions that the Reds aren't going to replace either because of quality of production or youth. They aren't going to replace Votto, Phillips, Rolen, Bruce, and C. You could make the argument that the Reds are content staying in house with the CF position.

So basically that leaves you where the Reds were last off season with needs to fill at SS and LF. To be honest if Gomes continues to do what he is doing you aren't going to replace him. And I do think the Reds are committed to Cabrera at SS for the rest of the season. Barring an injury of course, but that would seem unlikely due to his track record in the majors.

I do think the Reds could/should make a move to bolster the pitching staff. I would even go as far as moving Cueto or Bailey if I could get a #1 or 2 under contract for more than one year. While the pen may look nice with the coming additions, it would look a lot nicer with another power arm to anchor the 8th inning.

Caveat Emperor
06-24-2010, 04:29 PM
Further, they'll have to have other starters when Harang and Arroyo leave next year.

Nevertheless, I doubt we'll see the Reds trade for a starter.

Trading for a starter is the easiest way to improve this team. It allows them to push a starter to the bullpen and shore up the middle relief while also improving the rotation. Like you, though, I don't expect the Reds to pay the ransom in prospects it will take to bring someone worthwhile on board.

To your other point:

I'd be shocked if the Reds let Arroyo walk. I think it's far more likely you'll see them re-negotiate his deal to decrease the amount of money for next year in exchange for adding a couple more years onto his deal.

Projecting right now for 224 IP at 4.35 ERA. Dude takes the ball every 5th day, and will occasionally go out and win a game all by himself with 7-8IP of 0 run ball. For those of you keeping score at home, that would make 2010 his 6th consecutive season of tossing 200 IP or better and 6th consecutive season starting 30+ games.

The team would be foolhardy to toss that aside, IMO.

Scrap Irony
06-24-2010, 04:32 PM
A TOR starter would be great. (I do think Jocketty and the Red front office would be willing to pay, both in prospects and in millions.) There could be a need, if Volquez takes Leake's spot, and Bailey is made set-up man.

I don't, however, think it's very likely.

Jocketty is most likely to "fix" the pen, IMO, with a set-up man or a veteran closer to pitch the set-up innings. (Chad Qualls, for example.)

Other options include JJ Putz, Brandon Lyon, Sean Burnett, Will Ohman, possibly Evan Meek, or any manner of veteran playoff experienced reliever.

mth123
06-24-2010, 06:12 PM
Yeah, that's where I disagree. One top minor leaguer is worth at least 3 middle tier ones. The Reds don't have that name that will trump everyone, unless Chapman is available (which he isn't).

It really would help if Alonso was producing. Perfect trade chip.

Cliff Lee has been dealt twice in the last year and the prospects involved have all been flawed question marks similar to what the Reds have to offer. I'd say a Wood, Alonso combo would get the Reds in the door on just about anyone out there if the team is willing to take on cash. They would need to add a few extras (say a Wlad and a Fisher or something), but I think it would be difficult for others to match up. The Reds could keep adding similar types beyond what most other teams could do. The Rays could top them and maybe the Rangers, but I don't see the depth of middle of the road prospects that the Reds have around baseball so much.

The rub is the money IMO. If the Reds want the dollars evened up by including Harang or wanting the other team to include some money, it likely means Heisey or Stubbs needs added to the deal. If the team could keep the guy for 2011, I'd do that anyway.

Captain Hook
06-24-2010, 09:22 PM
The Reds will certainly make some moves.BP arms will be added and it's likely that that by mid July the rotation will look different then it did on OD.I even get the feeling that an outfielder could be added(someone other then GMJ).

My biggest concern is SS though.Cabrera got of to a nice start but that is over now.The only two things that keep Ocab from being our Willy Taveras of 2010 is that he's thought to be a great team player and that there is no need to blame anyone for the season falling apart.At least not yet.Maybe the Reds can continue winning if nothing is done here and it's possible that there isn't a better option out there but I hope Cabrera isn't being penciled in for the entire 2nd half let alone 2011.

Stephen Drew may be available and would look reel nice in a Reds uni imo.A young guy playing a premium position would be more valuable then a middle reliever or half season rental at SP.If we're talking about giving up top prospects I think the discussion should start here.