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pedro
06-28-2010, 11:02 AM
I agree with your assessment. I thought Dusty was as blunt as I ever heard him, when talking about Matthews when he said "he's got to get his act together" and indicating that if he didn't, he didn't have any place here.

I get the sense that Baker and Jocketty like this teams makeup and aren't looking to make any non pitching changes.

pahster
06-28-2010, 11:09 AM
I get the sense that Baker and Jocketty like this teams makeup and aren't looking to make any non pitching changes.

Other than SS, I don't see any need to make any personnel changes among starting position players either. Given the number of runs the Reds have scored so far, even with as bad as Cabrera has been (and probably will continue to be), he's not exactly killing them.

The Reds have some thoroughly underwhelming players on the bench, but so does everyone else. I suspect Nix will be gone if Dickerson can get healthy this year. I'd rather have Sutton in place of Cairo, but the latter's not playing much, so it's not too big of a deal. If management thinks Sutton still needs to play everyday, it makes sense to keep him in AAA for now.

mth123
06-28-2010, 11:14 AM
The issue with Mathews is that he could be needed as a backfill. To address the staff adequately, its possible that one of Stubbs or Heisey will need to go in a deal. If Dickerson can't come back that puts Mathews front and center. If the Reds can deal for an ace and be stuck with Mathews in a Cairo type reserve role, I'll happily live with it.

RichRed
06-28-2010, 11:21 AM
Today he goes 3 for 5 with a double, leading off.



I was at the game, in the sweltering heat. "The Private" actually hit the ball hard all 5 times. And as a side note, Frazier hit an absolute bomb.

Spring~Fields
06-28-2010, 11:38 AM
I was at the game, in the sweltering heat. "The Private" actually hit the ball hard all 5 times. And as a side note, Frazier hit an absolute bomb.

That's encouraging, perhaps he will find himself and have a great outcome and end up being productive for the Reds. We have to wish these guys the best, especially if they become a positive asset contributing to the Reds doing well and their fans being entertained by a quality product.

Raisor
06-28-2010, 01:08 PM
Other than SS, I don't see any need to make any personnel changes among starting position players either. Given the number of runs the Reds have scored so far, even with as bad as Cabrera has been (and probably will continue to be), he's not exactly killing them.

.

Reds have had two black holes in the lineup. Fix one of them, and the team is ahead of STL by two or three games.

nemesis
06-28-2010, 01:36 PM
Reds have had two black holes in the lineup. Fix one of them, and the team is ahead of STL by two or three games.

Cabrera and who?

Raisor
06-28-2010, 01:50 PM
Cabrera and who?

Stubbs.

ML average OPS for a CF is 744 vs Stubbs' .702.

Maybe "black hole" is a little harsh, but he's been pretty bad.

pahster
06-28-2010, 01:59 PM
Stubbs.

ML average OPS for a CF is 744 vs Stubbs' .702.

Maybe "black hole" is a little harsh, but he's been pretty bad.

I'd like to see Stubbs hit better than he has so far this season, but I don't think he's been bad enough to warrant replacement, especially when you take into account his defense.

But yeah, Cabrera has been awful. Far worse than I suspected he would.

westofyou
06-28-2010, 02:25 PM
I'd like to see Stubbs hit better than he has so far this season, but I don't think he's been bad enough to warrant replacement, especially when you take into account his defense.

But yeah, Cabrera has been awful. Far worse than I suspected he would.

Stubbs is young and he's going through growth issues, he will probably do that all year, I like his May though - .273/.339/.525/.865

Replacing him is likely not going to happen unless he does 2 months (maybe 3) like June has been, .228/.284/.329/.613. Which is oddy enough better than the June Matt Kemp has had.

RedsManRick
06-28-2010, 02:25 PM
Based on the scouting at least, at least Stubbs is a plus CF to help make up the OPS gap. The same cannot be said about Cabrera.

Spring~Fields
06-28-2010, 11:21 PM
Matthews 3 for 5 again with a HR tonight.

This guy might be another one that works out for WJ.

Odds on a callup, if he keeps it up, after the all-star break?

mdccclxix
06-28-2010, 11:48 PM
Matthews 3 for 5 again with a HR tonight.

This guy might be another one that works out for WJ.

Odds on a callup, if he keeps it up, after the all-star break?

Unless he is absolutely torrid until the ASG, or one of Heisey or Stubbs gets hurt, I don't think he'll be up until September. But I do think he'll be up if he hits reasonably well. I think of Jerry Hairston Jr. as an example of someone no one thought would help, but proved us wrong. I'm open to seeing him on the roster, especially since Dusty has made it clear that he has to earn it.

VR
06-28-2010, 11:51 PM
Based on the scouting at least, at least Stubbs is a plus CF to help make up the OPS gap. The same cannot be said about Cabrera.

He is fun to watch in center.....although he will never be compared to Eric the Red on plays at or near the fence. He looked like a lost little lamb on that one tonight.

Big Klu
06-29-2010, 12:19 AM
Matthews 3 for 5 again with a HR tonight.

This guy might be another one that works out for WJ.

Odds on a callup, if he keeps it up, after the all-star break?

Walt had a good track record of picking up older toolsy OF's who were past their prime when he was in STL:

Willie McGee
Thomas Howard
Eric Davis
Ray Lankford
So Taguchi
Reggie Sanders
Larry Walker
Juan Encarnacion
Preston Wilson

TRF
06-29-2010, 12:24 AM
Walt had a good track record of picking up older toolsy OF's who were past their prime when he was in STL:

Willie McGee
Thomas Howard
Eric Davis
Ray Lankford
So Taguchi
Reggie Sanders
Larry Walker
Juan Encarnacion
Preston Wilson

Most of those guys were actually good at one point.

KronoRed
06-29-2010, 12:26 AM
Matthews is not clutch, 0 for 10 in the postseasn ;)

fearofpopvol1
06-29-2010, 12:27 AM
Here's a question...would you rather have GMJ on your bench or Miguel Cairo?

And take out of the equation Dusty favoring starting GMJ over Stubbs or another youngster because he loves vets and "The Sarge."

VR
06-29-2010, 12:33 AM
Here's a question...would you rather have GMJ on your bench or Miguel Cairo?

And take out of the equation Dusty favoring starting GMJ over Stubbs or another youngster because he loves vets and "The Sarge."

Sadly, Cairo. He provides depth at all infield positions. The outfield is good as is....

OnBaseMachine
06-29-2010, 12:39 AM
Here's a question...would you rather have GMJ on your bench or Miguel Cairo?

And take out of the equation Dusty favoring starting GMJ over Stubbs or another youngster because he loves vets and "The Sarge."

Cairo. I don't care if Matthews Jr. OPS's over 1.000 in Louisville, he shouldn't spent any times with the Reds this season. I think the last few years should outweight anything he does in AAA.

reds44
06-29-2010, 12:48 AM
I don't understand why everyone is so afraid of Gary Matthews Jr.

For their careers
Nix: .237/.276/.421/.697 (OPS+ 77)
Jr: .257/.332/.405/.737 (OPS+ 92)

I don't get it. Is everyone THAT afraid of Matthews getting up here and taking playing time away from Stubbs? Sorry, I'm not buying that fear for one minute. Dusty has handled Stubbs great this year, and I don't see that changing. I see nothing wrong with giving a guy a minor league deal, and seeing what happens, especially when you consider the ban box of a park we play in.

Is Matthews going to be a big help to the Reds this year? No, but 18 pages of people crying about it is way over the top.

reds44
06-29-2010, 12:51 AM
Most of those guys were actually good at one point.
Matthews OPS'd .817 in three years in Texas. Define good.

Encarnacion (who was the first guy I looked up) never had a season with an OPS above .800 and more than 200 ABs.

EDIT: and when has So Taguchi ever been good at anything?

KronoRed
06-29-2010, 01:24 AM
No, but 18 pages of people crying about it is way over the top.

Hrm, I see more people ticked in this thread that some don't want Matthews anywhere near the Reds then people actually not wanting Matthews near the Reds.

Oh and career year at age 31..wonder how that ever came about :D

fearofpopvol1
06-29-2010, 01:25 AM
Cairo. I don't care if Matthews Jr. OPS's over 1.000 in Louisville, he shouldn't spent any times with the Reds this season. I think the last few years should outweight anything he does in AAA.

So you would rather take the guy who does worse than the guy does better because you don't like him personally? That really doesn't much much sense. I'll take the guy who can help my team the most every day of the week. If that's Cairo, fine. If it's GMJ, then it should be GMJ.

For what it's worth, over their careers, Cairo has been 4.5 WAR. GMJ has been 13.4 WAR.

OnBaseMachine
06-29-2010, 01:29 AM
So you would rather take the guy who does worse than the guy does better because you don't like him personally? That really doesn't much much sense. I'll take the guy who can help my team the most every day of the week. If that's Cairo, fine. If it's GMJ, then it should be GMJ.

For what it's worth, over their careers, Cairo has been 4.5 WAR. GMJ has been 13.4 WAR.

Who says I don't like Matthews personally? What I don't like is he barely OPS'd over .500 this season and he can no longer play an adequate center field. I don't want either one of them on the team but if I had to choose one I'd probably go with Cairo. If it was up to me Drew Sutton would replace Cairo on the roster.

fearofpopvol1
06-29-2010, 01:35 AM
Who says I don't like Matthews personally? What I don't like is he barely OPS'd over .500 this season and he can no longer play an adequate center field. I don't want either one of them on the team but if I had to choose one I'd probably go with Cairo. If it was up to me Drew Sutton would replace Cairo on the roster.

You said, "I don't care if Matthews Jr. OPS's over 1.000 in Louisville, he shouldn't spent any times with the Reds this season."

Cairo could not OPS 1.000 at Louisville. So, if GMJ did and you wouldn't want him with the Reds, I think it's fair to deduce that it would be for personal biase, would it not?

I don't think GMJ should be on the Reds unless he earns it, for the record.

OnBaseMachine
06-29-2010, 01:40 AM
You said, "I don't care if Matthews Jr. OPS's over 1.000 in Louisville, he shouldn't spent any times with the Reds this season."

Cairo could not OPS 1.000 at Louisville. So, if GMJ did and you wouldn't want him with the Reds, I think it's fair to deduce that it would be for personal biase, would it not?

I don't think GMJ should be on the Reds unless he earns it, for the record.

No, I think it has more to do with the fact that he barely OPS'd .500 this season. This coming after he OPS'd .697 last season and .675 the year before. Considering I've never met Gary Matthews Jr. I have no reason to not like him personally.

reds44
06-29-2010, 01:42 AM
Who says I don't like Matthews personally? What I don't like is he barely OPS'd over .500 this season and he can no longer play an adequate center field. I don't want either one of them on the team but if I had to choose one I'd probably go with Cairo. If it was up to me Drew Sutton would replace Cairo on the roster.
In 68 ABs.

He OPS'd .700 in a ballpark much more pitcher friendly than the one we play in last year.

pedro
06-29-2010, 01:46 AM
I don't think it's out of the question that Matthews might end up being a better PH option off the bench than Laynce Nix.

reds44
06-29-2010, 01:48 AM
I don't think it's out of the question that Matthews might end up being a better PH option off the bench than Laynce Nix.
And that's all that needs to be said. And God forbid, imagine what happens if Nix/Gomes/Stubbs/Heisey/Bruce gets hurt. Look at how the OFers are producing in AAA right now, they arent.

People's fear of Dusty playing Matthews everyday is funny.

Cedric
06-29-2010, 01:57 AM
And that's all that needs to be said. And God forbid, imagine what happens if Nix/Gomes/Stubbs/Heisey/Bruce gets hurt. Look at how the OFers are producing in AAA right now, they arent.

People's fear of Dusty playing Matthews everyday is funny.

Is it really that odd? It's not really worth screaming and ridiculing people over their opinion. It's not like the Reds management hasn't ran out guys like Clayton and Taveres because of misguided reputation in the past.

I haven't thought much about GMJ but I can understand why some think he will play important innings this year. The guy has one hot week and I could certainly see Jocketty and Dusty playing him everyday and talking up his defense. It's not that farfetched.

fearofpopvol1
06-29-2010, 01:57 AM
No, I think it has more to do with the fact that he barely OPS'd .500 this season. This coming after he OPS'd .697 last season and .675 the year before. Considering I've never met Gary Matthews Jr. I have no reason to not like him personally.

You do realize that those numbers are pretty much right in line with Cairo's OPS in that time frame as well, right? GMJ has been a better defender over his career than Cairo has been too.

What I'm saying is, you're purporting that GMJ would be so much worse than Cairo, when really, he wouldn't be. ESPECIALLY if his OPS was 1.000 at Louisville, something you said he should not be called up for should he achieve.

Given these facts, my only thought is that it's personal. If it's not, then I'm not understanding where the disdain is coming from. There must be a bias at least.

Cedric
06-29-2010, 01:58 AM
You do realize that those numbers are pretty much right in line with Cairo's OPS in that time frame as well, right? GMJ has been a better defender over his career than Cairo has been too.

What I'm saying is, you're purporting that GMJ would be so much worse than Cairo, when really, he wouldn't be. ESPECIALLY if his OPS was 1.000 at Louisville, something you said he should not be called up for should he achieve.

Cairo isn't going to be given innings over anyone. Mathews has a player directly in his position that is struggling a little bit right now. I'm sorry if I don't completely trust Jocketty and Dusty at this point.

OnBaseMachine
06-29-2010, 02:00 AM
Given these facts, my only thought is that it's personal. If it's not, then I'm not understanding where the disdain is coming from. There must be a bias at least.

Well, like I said a couple times before, it's nothing personal nor is there a bias. Feel free to PM me if you want but I'm not going to sit here and argue this with you.

fearofpopvol1
06-29-2010, 02:01 AM
Cairo isn't going to be given innings over anyone. Mathews has a player directly in his position that is struggling a little bit right now. I'm sorry if I don't completely trust Jocketty and Dusty at this point.

For the record, I do not support Dusty playing GMJ regularly over anyone that starters (and I would include Heisey as well). All I'm saying is OBM and a few others have made it sound like GMJ is so much worse than Nix or Cairo and the numbers suggest that's not really the case.

Bottom line for me, I want whoever the best players are and who will help the Reds win. If that's Cairo or Nix or GMJ, so be it. But OBM said if GMJ OPS 1.000, he should not be with the Reds. I'm pretty certain a 1.000 OPS at AAA is better than Cairo or Nix could do.

fearofpopvol1
06-29-2010, 02:02 AM
Well, like I said a couple times before, it's nothing personal nor is there a bias. Feel free to PM me if you want but I'm not going to sit here and argue this with you.

No need for a PM, there's nothing personal here.

Your assertions just aren't matching the numbers, that's all. You're entitled to your opinion, regardless.

reds44
06-29-2010, 02:31 AM
Saying Matthews could OPS 1.000 in AAA and you still wouldn't want him up here is asinine, IMO, especially with Laynce Nix on the roster.

reds44
06-29-2010, 02:33 AM
Is it really that odd? It's not really worth screaming and ridiculing people over their opinion. It's not like the Reds management hasn't ran out guys like Clayton and Taveres because of misguided reputation in the past.

I haven't thought much about GMJ but I can understand why some think he will play important innings this year. The guy has one hot week and I could certainly see Jocketty and Dusty playing him everyday and talking up his defense. It's not that farfetched.
If you've been watching the Reds play since Drew Stubbs came up, it's VERY far fetched.

Some people saying that no matter what he does in AAA, he should never be in the majors is just wrong.

OnBaseMachine
06-29-2010, 02:35 AM
Saying Matthews could OPS 1.000 in AAA and you still wouldn't want him up here is asinine, IMO, especially with Layne Nix on the roster.

Not when you consider the way Matthews Jr. has hit in the majors the last three seasons. Look, I wish the Reds could find an upgrade to Nix but I don't think Matthews is that guy. I would take Nix over GMJ at this point in their careers.

reds44
06-29-2010, 02:39 AM
Not when you consider the way Matthews Jr. has hit in the majors the last three seasons. Look, I wish the Reds could find an upgrade to Nix but I don't think Matthews is that guy. I would take Nix over GMJ at this point in their careers.
Nix is OPSing .690 right now, Matthews OPS'd .697 last season in a much less hitter friendly park.

If Matthews lights up AAA, there's really no reason not to call him up and get rid of Nix.

I don't think Matthews is any good, but the fear of him on hear doesn't make any sense.

Ron Madden
06-29-2010, 02:51 AM
Sometimes we should take a players AAA numbers with a grain of salt.


Especially if he is in his mid 30's and has a track record of non production in the major leagues.

BRM
06-29-2010, 08:54 AM
Sometimes we should take a players AAA numbers with a grain of salt.


Especially if he is in his mid 30's and has a track record of non production in the major leagues.

This is basically what OBM has been saying the last few pages of this thread. At least that's how I read it.

CesarGeronimo
06-29-2010, 09:36 AM
Nix is OPSing .690 right now, Matthews OPS'd .697 last season in a much less hitter friendly park.

If Matthews lights up AAA, there's really no reason not to call him up and get rid of Nix.

I don't think Matthews is any good, but the fear of him on hear doesn't make any sense.

The fear is that given the opportunity Dusty will give Gary Matthews a lot more playing time than he gives Laynce Nix and perhaps make him the starter in centerfield.

westofyou
06-29-2010, 09:39 AM
The fear is that given the opportunity Dusty will give Gary Matthews a lot more playing time than he gives Laynce Nix and perhaps make him the starter in centerfield.

The boogyman theory is weak IMO, Stubbs is going to get 3 times as much rope as GM would, he's hot and cold at times but the franchise sees him as the future in CF, and you can bet your home that they don't see GM in that crystal ball as nothing more than failsafe.

OnBaseMachine
06-29-2010, 10:36 AM
This is basically what OBM has been saying the last few pages of this thread. At least that's how I read it.

Yep. Let's pretend Matthews Jr. tears it up at Louisville. What should we trust more? His last three seasons in the big leagues where he struggled mightily or a small sample size in AAA? I'll go with the former. If he was younger I would feel differently, but at 35 he isn't getting any better.

pedro
06-29-2010, 10:41 AM
Yep. Let's pretend Matthews Jr. tears it up at Louisville. What should we trust more? His last three seasons in the big leagues where he struggled mightily or a small sample size in AAA?

The fact that he's been a better player over the course of his career than Laynce Nix.

I just don't see what the big deal is.

Puffy
06-29-2010, 12:03 PM
The fact that he's been a better player over the course of his career than Laynce Nix.

I just don't see what the big deal is.

Me neither. Look, Stubbs struggled mightily earlier this year. Dusty stuck with him, moved him down the lineup and now Stubbs is playing great. Dusty is not replacing Stubbs unless he gets hurt.

I mean, really, do most of you people even pay attention to Dusty's team? He plays his regulars almost every day. He finds a lineup thats working and uses it every day. That what Dusty wants - continuity. Gary Matthews is in Louisville. If he makes it up to Cincy it would be in a purely situational role. Bench player. Pinch hitter. Pinch runner. Left field defense. Spot starter (kinda like Janish - who people want to play more he plays so little).

In the words of Lieutenant Frank Drebin, "Nothing to see here. Please disperse. Nothing to see here"

Raisor
06-29-2010, 12:14 PM
Me neither. Look, Stubbs struggled mightily earlier this year. Dusty stuck with him, moved him down the lineup and now Stubbs is playing great. Dusty is not replacing Stubbs unless he gets hurt.

"

last 14 days .162/ .262/ .243/ .505
last 28 days 231/ .299/ .333/ .632

now he has been better the last week
last 7 days .235/ .350/ .412/ .762

If the Reds weren't in the race, I'd agree that there's no way Dusty would sit Stubbs, but they are. It may end up being taken out of Dusty's hands too. Walt may do something with the roster spot.

A platoon partner would be ideal, in my opinion.
Stubbs
vsRHP .226/ .307/ .339/ .647
vsLHP .253/ .326/ .494/ .820

westofyou
06-29-2010, 12:18 PM
last 14 days .162/ .262/ .243/ .505
last 28 days 231/ .299/ .333/ .632

now he has been better the last week
last 7 days .235/ .350/ .412/ .762

If the Reds weren't in the race, I'd agree that there's no way Dusty would sit Stubbs, but they are. It may end up being taken out of Dusty's hands too. Walt may do something with the roster spot.

A platoon partner would be ideal, in my opinion.
Stubbs
vsRHP .226/ .307/ .339/ .647
vsLHP .253/ .326/ .494/ .820
$100 says Stubbs stays up with the Reds and gets 85% of the AB's at CF the rest of the season, barring injury.

pedro
06-29-2010, 12:19 PM
last 14 days .162/ .262/ .243/ .505
last 28 days 231/ .299/ .333/ .632

now he has been better the last week
last 7 days .235/ .350/ .412/ .762

If the Reds weren't in the race, I'd agree that there's no way Dusty would sit Stubbs, but they are. It may end up being taken out of Dusty's hands too. Walt may do something with the roster spot.

A platoon partner would be ideal, in my opinion.
Stubbs
vsRHP .226/ .307/ .339/ .647
vsLHP .253/ .326/ .494/ .820

There's not a chance in hell IMO of Jocketty sending Stubbs down if that's what you are implying.

If I was Laynce Nix though I wouldn't planning an August wedding in Cincy.

Raisor
06-29-2010, 12:23 PM
There's not a chance in hell IMO of Jocketty sending Stubbs down if that's what you are implying.

.

No, I don't think I was implying anything. I wrote it a bit clunky, but the main point was:
A platoon partner would be ideal, in my opinion.
Stubbs
vsRHP .226/ .307/ .339/ .647
vsLHP .253/ .326/ .494/ .820

pedro
06-29-2010, 12:26 PM
No, I don't think I was implying anything. I wrote it a bit clunky, but the main point was:

I don't think that's out of the question but I think they are more likely to spot platoon with Matthews / Gomes in LF than they are to split time between Stubbs & Matthews, mostly because I think they want Stubb's defense in there every day.

GOYA
06-29-2010, 01:16 PM
For all the talk about an upgrade for Nix, the answer has been in Louisville for a year and a half. Danny Dorn. He seems to get no consideration or even respect, but the man has earned his shot. And if the Reds want to deal him, a little showcase time in the bigs could very well increase his value. He has the rep of a bad defender. He isn't bad. He's average because of lack of speed.

If Matthews earns a callup, so be it.

pedro
06-29-2010, 01:21 PM
For all the talk about an upgrade for Nix, the answer has been in Louisville for a year and a half. Danny Dorn. He seems to get no consideration or even respect, but the man has earned his shot. And if the Reds want to deal him, a little showcase time in the bigs could very well increase his value. He has the rep of a bad defender. He isn't bad. He's average because of lack of speed.

If Matthews earns a callup, so be it.

He hasn't exactly knocked the door down.

Honestly I think the Reds are looking to upgrade their PH and guys without any major league experience are very seldom tapped for that role.

GOYA
06-29-2010, 01:45 PM
Honestly I think the Reds are looking to upgrade their PH and guys without any major league experience are very seldom tapped for that role.

Chris Heisey?

Dorn's number are way better than Heisey's in Louisville. And Dorn hit lefties as well as righties.

pedro
06-29-2010, 01:53 PM
Chris Heisey?

Dorn's number are way better than Heisey's in Louisville. And Dorn hit lefties as well as righties.

I'm not sure I'd say "way better".

Either way, Heisey fell into that role because Dickerson got hurt, not because the Reds chose him for it. Plus he really hasn't all that many AB's as PH. Nix is the Reds main PH and he's not been good in that role.

westofyou
06-29-2010, 01:55 PM
My belief is the Reds prefer Heisy to play every day than to be a MLB caddy.

pedro
06-29-2010, 01:57 PM
My belief is the Reds prefer Heisy to play every day than to be a MLB caddy.

My guess is Heisey is going to get every opportunity to be the regular LF next year.

GOYA
06-29-2010, 02:06 PM
I'm not sure I'd say "way better".

Heisey - .241/.307/.430
Dorn - .301/.373/.487

Seriously?

pedro
06-29-2010, 02:45 PM
Heisey - .241/.307/.430
Dorn - .301/.373/.487

Seriously?

I only looked at Heisey's 2009 and the numbers weren't so stark.

My point still stands though.

Heisey got called up b/c he was a replacement for Dickerson as a BU CF, not because he was a better option as a PH than Laynce Nix, which, IMO, is the only reason that GMJ might be called up. Dorn may well come up when the rosters expand but I have a hard time believing the Reds would call him up and use him as their primary LHPH as he has no major league experience.

TRF
06-29-2010, 03:00 PM
Matthews OPS'd .817 in three years in Texas. Define good.

Encarnacion (who was the first guy I looked up) never had a season with an OPS above .800 and more than 200 ABs.

EDIT: and when has So Taguchi ever been good at anything?

You get that i said "most" right?


The fact that he's been a better player over the course of his career than Laynce Nix.

I just don't see what the big deal is.

As a platoon partner with the idea that GMJ would only hit LH, I'd still take Nix. better defender, and his OPS against RH's is close to 40 points higher.

But i don't actually want either to get starts over Stubbs. I also agree LF is Heisey's next year, maybe even this year. He's an almost instant upgrade to Gomes. I just wish Stubbs could have been eased into being a major leaguer the way Heisey has been.

KronoRed
06-29-2010, 04:07 PM
No love for 30 year old Luis Terrero? he's got the best OPS on the bats roster ;)

GOYA
06-29-2010, 04:23 PM
He's also on the DL.

KronoRed
06-29-2010, 04:58 PM
He's also on the DL.

Sure, but no calls around here for him to be called up when healthy :D

CesarGeronimo
06-29-2010, 08:39 PM
$100 says Stubbs stays up with the Reds and gets 85% of the AB's at CF the rest of the season, barring injury.

Sure, I'll take that bet and hope that I lose, but fear that I won't. Let's start with tomorrow's game, 6/30/10.

westofyou
06-29-2010, 10:06 PM
Sure, I'll take that bet and hope that I lose, but fear that I won't. Let's start with tomorrow's game, 6/30/10.

Let's do it

reds44
06-29-2010, 10:12 PM
I wonder if Matthews is afraid of running into a wall.

westofyou
06-29-2010, 10:42 PM
I wonder if Matthews is afraid of running into a wall.

Newsflash, they all are.

CTA513
06-29-2010, 11:18 PM
I wonder if Matthews is afraid of running into a wall.

I bet most players are.

VR
06-29-2010, 11:38 PM
I bet most players are.

Not Rodney McRay.

westofyou
06-30-2010, 12:07 AM
Not Rodney McRay.

YouTube - Baseball Player Runs Through Outfield Wall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDxnphNuyGI&feature=related)

Slyder
06-30-2010, 01:49 AM
YouTube - Baseball Player Runs Through Outfield Wall (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDxnphNuyGI&feature=related)

The only thing that would have made that play more epic would have been if he held on to it through the wall. He was on Best **** Sports Show and they asked him and he said no it bounced out when the glove hit the wall.

BTW I would propose in his younger days Griffey wasnt and Farney was never afraid of crashing into anything... even Keith Olbermann's Mom.

CesarGeronimo
06-30-2010, 11:15 AM
Let's do it

OK, we'll start with today's game. :)

Degenerate39
06-30-2010, 11:16 AM
I wonder if Matthews is afraid of running into a wall.

You might as well get Ryan Freel back if that's what you want

westofyou
06-30-2010, 11:22 AM
OK, we'll start with today's game. :)

FYI if I win i'm donating the 90% of the winnings to the Reds Community Fund.

I'm drinking beer with the other $10

Unassisted
07-20-2010, 06:27 PM
On WLW's pregame show, Lance just said something about the Reds having a deadline of next weekend to call up Matthews or release him.

Mario-Rijo
07-20-2010, 06:28 PM
On WLW's pregame show, Lance just said something about the Reds having a deadline of next weekend to call up Matthews or release him.

Per Crasnick:


Matthews has an out clause in his contract that allows him to become a free agent if he's not promoted to the major league club by July 24, according to ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick. So the Reds risk losing him if they don't bring him up by Saturday.

Would have been a nice nugget to know early on, would have stopped a lot of debate.

NC Reds
07-20-2010, 06:46 PM
See ya Gary.

Mario-Rijo
07-20-2010, 06:54 PM
See ya Gary.

Soon. :cool:

marcshoe
07-20-2010, 07:03 PM
I'm not sure the word 'risk' is the right one in that context.

membengal
07-20-2010, 07:04 PM
Frankly, I think he'll be up and will replace Nix on the roster.

And, I don't know that I will be sad about that.

Big Klu
07-20-2010, 07:40 PM
Just because Matthews has an out clause in his contract does not necessarily mean that he will exercise it. If he asks for his release, then he would be back to square one with whatever organization he signs with next.

reds44
07-20-2010, 07:45 PM
Doesn't Matthews have to be behind Dickerson in the OFers in line for a callup?

TRF
07-20-2010, 09:00 PM
Dickerson has to get on the field without a stretcher first.

Ron Madden
07-21-2010, 02:53 AM
Dickerson has to get on the field without a stretcher first.

He is still young. He has shown that he can play defense and get on base.

I'd much rather take my chances with Dickerson than Matthews Jr.

Kc61
07-21-2010, 04:57 PM
He is still young. He has shown that he can play defense and get on base.

I'd much rather take my chances with Dickerson than Matthews Jr.

120 Ks in 401 official at bats. About 30 percent of official at bats are strikeouts for CD.

Blitz Dorsey
07-21-2010, 05:00 PM
I would take Dave Matthews over Laynce Nix.

hebroncougar
07-21-2010, 05:09 PM
He is still young. He has shown that he can play defense and get on base.

I'd much rather take my chances with Dickerson than Matthews Jr.

Dickerson is not young. He's 28. I'd take him over Matthews though.

Ron Madden
07-22-2010, 04:10 AM
Dickerson is not young. He's 28. I'd take him over Matthews though.

I was agreeing with the post made by reds44. Dickerson should be called up before GMJ. My point is Dickerson is ten years younger than GMJ. Dickerson plays better defense and gets on base more often than GMJ does, I'd rather take my chances with CD staying healthy than waste time with GMJ.

JMHO

hebroncougar
07-22-2010, 07:37 AM
I was agreeing with the post made by reds44. Dickerson should be called up before GMJ. My point is Dickerson is ten years younger than GMJ. Dickerson plays better defense and gets on base more often than GMJ does, I'd rather take my chances with CD staying healthy than waste time with GMJ.

JMHO

Agree, Dickerson should be called up ASAP, and Nix needs to go.

Redsfan320
07-22-2010, 08:57 AM
The deadline for him to be called up gets one day closer...

320

Falls City Beer
07-22-2010, 09:13 AM
Say what you want about Nix, but he doesn't snap his hamstring by checking his watch.

Blitz Dorsey
07-22-2010, 12:44 PM
Say what you want about Nix, but he doesn't snap his hamstring by checking his watch.

Which is too bad. I would take Heisey batting against a righty over Nix batting against a righty anytime. But for some reason, Dusty gives Nix's sorry rear end a lot more PT than he deserves. Heisey should be the only backup OF that is considered when one of the starters needs a day off.

Falls City Beer
07-22-2010, 01:13 PM
Which is too bad. I would take Heisey batting against a righty over Nix batting against a righty anytime. But for some reason, Dusty gives Nix's sorry rear end a lot more PT than he deserves. Heisey should be the only backup OF that is considered when one of the starters needs a day off.

If the choice is between Nix and Heisey, then yeah, I go with Heisey. But Dickerson is nigh on useless.

fearofpopvol1
07-23-2010, 07:54 PM
From twitter...

m_sheldon Nothing yet on G. Matthews Jr. situation. Baker: “I hope he stays even if it doesn’t fit right now. " http://bit.ly/9MexgF

OnBaseMachine
07-23-2010, 07:58 PM
From Jayson Stark:

Gary Matthews Jr.'s agent says Sarge Jr. will exercise right to opt out of T-A contract w/ #Reds tomorrow. Looking for major-league job.

http://twitter.com/jaysonst

Good.

fearofpopvol1
07-23-2010, 08:04 PM
I wonder who takes over CF in Louisville? I imagine Dickerson for the time being, but after? Maybe Perez or Sappelt? I would think Perez.

wally post
07-23-2010, 10:59 PM
yay! bye bye Gary!

RedLegSuperStar
07-24-2010, 12:50 AM
yay! bye bye Gary!

Unless you live in Louisville I don't think bye bye is what's about to happen. I can see the Reds DFA'ing Nix and adding Matthews. Matthews dad is BFF with Dusty and we could see a call up on the eleventh hour.

reds44
07-24-2010, 12:52 AM
Unless you live in Louisville I don't think bye bye is what's about to happen. I can see the Reds DFA'ing Nix and adding Matthews. Matthews dad is BFF with Dusty and we could see a call up on the eleventh hour.
There's no use. Matthews literally does nothing better than Dickerson. He's gone.

blumj
07-24-2010, 12:54 AM
From Jayson Stark:

Gary Matthews Jr.'s agent says Sarge Jr. will exercise right to opt out of T-A contract w/ #Reds tomorrow. Looking for major-league job.

http://twitter.com/jaysonst

Good.
Great, now I have to worry again that the Red Sox will get desperate enough to sign him.

Slyder
07-24-2010, 12:56 AM
From twitter...

m_sheldon Nothing yet on G. Matthews Jr. situation. Baker: “I hope he stays even if it doesn’t fit right now. " http://bit.ly/9MexgF

This is what drives me crazy when "Duhhhsty" shows up. Gary Matthews Jr will NEVER fit this teams needs. Short of Drew Stubbs pulling a hamstring, Dickerson shattering again because he's made of glass, Chris Heisey going down, and Laynce Nix turning into a literal pumpkin there will not be a position for him. Even if the most extreme circumstances occured we have better options given his age. He's doing us a favor by exercising this out clause because now we should turn our attention to in house options, Dickerson's rehab, guys not named in the Michell Report, and guys who arent closer to 40 than 30.

Will M
07-24-2010, 01:00 AM
From MLB: Matthews elects to opt out of contract
HOUSTON -- The Reds learned on Friday that outfielder Gary Matthews Jr. will opt out of his contract with Triple-A Louisville....
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100723&content_id=12549556&notebook_id=12551232&vkey=notebook_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Ron Madden
07-24-2010, 03:42 AM
If the choice is between Nix and Heisey, then yeah, I go with Heisey. But Dickerson is nigh on useless.

See, I disagree with this line of thinking. I like Good Players.

We shouldn't hold it against productive players for getting injured.

No player gets hurt on purpose. It's what they do when healthy that matters.

Eric Davis, Ken Griffey Jr. Scott Rolen.

Not saying Dickerson will ever be as good as those three but I am saying he's a long way from being useless. I'd take him over Nix any day.

WebScorpion
07-24-2010, 01:06 PM
From MLB: Matthews elects to opt out of contract
HOUSTON -- The Reds learned on Friday that outfielder Gary Matthews Jr. will opt out of his contract with Triple-A Louisville....


I see this as another sign this might be the Reds year. With an outfield crew that pretty much is fully loaded (overloaded when Dickerson returns) this had the potential to blow up in our face. Subpar veteran player has a hot month in AAA for a team where he has connections... We could have replaced an integral cog in the budding red machine with an old broken gear that could fail at a critical time. Whew! I wish him good luck, but feel happy we didn't make that move. :D

Big Klu
07-24-2010, 02:36 PM
This is not possible! I was assured by RedsZone that Dusty would sabotage the Reds' season by calling up his good buddy's little boy and guaranteeing him significant playing time, if not a starting job! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Falls City Beer
07-24-2010, 02:38 PM
See, I disagree with this line of thinking. I like Good Players.

We shouldn't hold it against productive players for getting injured.

No player gets hurt on purpose. It's what they do when healthy that matters.

Eric Davis, Ken Griffey Jr. Scott Rolen.

Not saying Dickerson will ever be as good as those three but I am saying he's a long way from being useless. I'd take him over Nix any day.

Chris Dickerson is a great idea. But he's an idea, not a player who takes the field day in and day out.

Falls City Beer
07-24-2010, 02:39 PM
This is not possible! I was assured by RedsZone that Dusty would sabotage the Reds' season by calling up his good buddy's little boy and guaranteeing him significant playing time, if not a starting job! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

You can thank Stubbs' brief spat of multi-homer games for that reprieve.

westofyou
07-24-2010, 02:57 PM
This is not possible! I was assured by RedsZone that Dusty would sabotage the Reds' season by calling up his good buddy's little boy and guaranteeing him significant playing time, if not a starting job! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Yes you are correct, in the end too much conjecture, so little truth.

Redsfan320
07-24-2010, 06:12 PM
“I tried to convince him to wait,” Baker said. “He said after being in the big leagues this long he didn’t want to be in Triple-A anymore.

Baker tried to convince Matthews (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/07/24/baker-tried-to-convince-matthews/)

Just putting this out there.

320

redsmetz
07-24-2010, 06:23 PM
Baker tried to convince Matthews (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/07/24/baker-tried-to-convince-matthews/)

Just putting this out there.

320

Dusty said it in the paper this morning. He hoped he'd stay at AAA, that it would be a thing to help extend his career since he had nowhere to go. He also said that he was fairly hands off on the entire thing, leaving it to Jocketty to decide whether to offer him a contract or not (recognizing he was so close to the family).

The fact is the club looked at an option, there was no need for him at the ML level and he opted out. I would think RZ would breath a great sigh of relief. I never expected Matthews to end up in Cincinnati unless he was crazy good. He wasn't (and probably would never have been), so he's gone.

Falls City Beer
07-24-2010, 06:54 PM
I'm telling you: we all have Stubbs to thank for GMJ not being on the 25-man. He forced Walt's hand. Otherwise, we'd be enjoying the Sarge Junior right now.

Ron Madden
07-24-2010, 06:57 PM
I'm telling you: we all have Stubbs to thank for GMJ not being on the 25-man. He forced Walt's hand. Otherwise, we'd be enjoying the Sarge Junior right now.

There's a lot of truth in that statement.

Mario-Rijo
07-24-2010, 07:56 PM
There's a lot of truth in that statement.

All truth IMO.

Blitz Dorsey
07-24-2010, 08:59 PM
Unless GMJ is dense beyond belief, he will accept his assignment to Louisville. There is always the chance he will be needed in the pennant race. Or he could be home working on puzzles. His call.

edabbs44
07-24-2010, 09:28 PM
Unless GMJ is dense beyond belief, he will accept his assignment to Louisville. There is always the chance he will be needed in the pennant race. Or he could be home working on puzzles. His call.

He's got enough money to make that decision.

fearofpopvol1
07-24-2010, 09:38 PM
Baker tried to convince Matthews (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/07/24/baker-tried-to-convince-matthews/)

Just putting this out there.

320

One word: Ego

RedsManRick
07-24-2010, 09:52 PM
One word: Ego

I think most people would act similarly in his situation. He truly believes that he's a major league ballplayer. Athletes who don't have confidence in their abilities don't make it in the first place. The reality of the Reds situation is that he's 7th on the depth chart, at best, and I'm sure be believes he belongs on a 25 man roster.

It reminds of the Upton Sinclair quote: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"

fearofpopvol1
07-24-2010, 11:53 PM
I think most people would act similarly in his situation. He truly believes that he's a major league ballplayer. Athletes who don't have confidence in their abilities don't make it in the first place. The reality of the Reds situation is that he's 7th on the depth chart, at best, and I'm sure be believes he belongs on a 25 man roster.

It reminds of the Upton Sinclair quote: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"

I don't really disagree with anything you've said, but he acts like he's been stellar the last few years and the reality is he's sucked in the bigs.

CesarGeronimo
08-06-2010, 09:18 PM
$100 says Stubbs stays up with the Reds and gets 85% of the AB's at CF the rest of the season, barring injury.

So my worries about seeing Matthews Jr. in CF were quite unnecessary (knock on wood), but it's suddenly looking like I have a decent chance to win this bet anyway. I haven't counted the at bats at CF yet, but Stubbs has started just 77.4% (24 of 31) of the games since we launched this bet on June 30.

If I do win, you can just send the money to the Reds Community Fund as you said you'll do with 90% of my money if you win the bet.